Since always... Show me the rules that a wizard for example can change its school spec for a situation like "ah i'm fighting orcs I'm illiusionist now, then ah I'm fighting trolls I'm conjurer now".
What you have in D&D are multi-classes... Like Fighter-Wizard or Cleric-Monk or Fighter-Mage-Druid.
Then you have prestige classes like the arcane archer or the sword dancer.
But those are not the dual spec people are crying about... What they want are multiple specs for different parts of the game... PVE = spec 1, PVP = spec 2. And that without any negative effects.
Do not want dual spec. Don't think it needs it. And I've said why I feel that way in multiple past thread on the same subject.
Would be nice to have another load out for our powers though. Not a different spec/build. Just a faster way to switch between powers we already put points in. This was also suggested in the preview forums.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
0
krahctMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I support Dual Spec for president. In a game that has PVP and PVE and classes that can be played as tanks, dps or heals there needs to be a way to quickly change specs. D&D wasn't/isn't really about PVP anyway. I understand this game is based on D&D, but only minimally, it inherits many things from other MMOs that are very much anti-D&D. I mean hell, D&D was largely a roleplay adventure game, where is the roleplay in this game (hidden in special guilds in their chat?), where is the adventure in this game? Where is the risk...?
Anyways...Dual Spec clearly makes sense to me. And yep..I came from WoW and remember when dual specs came out and it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, made the game so much better. It made me want to play more not less...it didn't keep me from rolling alts, and as far as I can tell it didn't upset the roleplayers world's either.
+1 for dual spec
"I never make mistakes, I once thought I did but I was wrong"
0
sh4dowrunn3rMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited June 2013
I think the only reason anyone has not to support this is that they are pvp spec and like to own pve specs. Since if they don't like it they don't have to use it - nothing changes for them.
Please add this. Or at least add a feature so we can easily switch our toolbar layout! Because as a CW, I have enough points so I can get all the best CC and best DPS spells that I need to play as both a CC Wizard and a DPS Wizard! But since not all dungeons have ledges to knock off mobs from, I'm spending half the time just spamming Magic Missile and Time Steal because melee DPS hate it when I seperate mobs or push them across the room when there's no ledge to knock'em off and my DPS goes so low it's embarassing!
But if I could press a button and switch from CC to DPS and vice versa, then I wouldn't have to worry about this anymore!
Oh there's a ledge! Switch to CC, knock stuff off! Oh now there's no more ledge, switch to DPS and top the meters again.
0
tazokhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Please add this. Or at least add a feature so we can easily switch our toolbar layout! Because as a CW, I have enough points so I can get all the best CC and best DPS spells that I need to play as both a CC Wizard and a DPS Wizard! But since not all dungeons have ledges to knock off mobs from, I'm spending half the time just spamming Magic Missile and Time Steal because melee DPS hate it when I seperate mobs or push them across the room when there's no ledge to knock'em off and my DPS goes so low it's embarassing!
But if I could press a button and switch from CC to DPS and vice versa, then I wouldn't have to worry about this anymore!
Oh there's a ledge! Switch to CC, knock stuff off! Oh now there's no more ledge, switch to DPS and top the meters again.
I think you are in the wrong spot for this...this is for dual spec not dual encounters/spell bar.
Does that mean you have to completely abandon D&D rules? No!
The rules of D&D aren't sacrosanct. The makers of the pnp game have completely changed their own rules several times. Compare Basic to AD&D 1st Ed. to D&D 3.5 to D&D 4. The rules of D&D have changed quite substantially over the years.
This is simply another form of D&D that is different from other forms of the past.
Anyway, this particular form of D&D harkens back to the simplicity of earlier versions, so I'm against adding the complexity of a dual spec system due to the modern feel of it.
I see some incredibly weird arguments against dual specs in here.
Not D&D like? Because this game is closely following the D&D rules in terms of combat and how the classes operate, right? Besides the six standard ability scores (which give arbitrary benefits), I hardly see anything that resembles the PnP versions I knew. It's more of a mix of Diablo and Dungeon Siege, or any other hack&slash that limits how many powers you can use at once. Very much dynamic action oriented.
Rolling an alt is not a solution. First, some of us get attached to their characters. If someone wants to have one main, that's their right. They should not be forced into levelling and gearing up another toon as a silly workaround. It's also fairly time-consuming, which kind of matters if playing games isn't the only thing you do in life. Most of all, it's also boring to level up another class of the same type and repeat everything you've just done.
If you only do PvE and PvP is such a strange concept for you (or vice versa), you also wouldn't understand why someone might need a different skill of powers and feats in order to properly enjoy both. You couldn't. If you don't like either PvE or PvP, then you are obviously based and it's evident in your reasoning.
Yes, you could roll with one spec and be average or mediocre at both (and since the game isn't extremely challenging, you would be just fine). But if you wanted to optimize, you are out of luck. Or you would need to spend huge amounts of money and time, which is not exactly encouraging.
With that kind of money you could get much better games than Neverwinter. And the time it takes to respec is more than just a minor inconvenience (at least for people with jobs and reliatonships). Reassigning all the numerous points in abilities, powers, and feats - every single time. Boring, dull, unwieldy. Do it several times and you'll be feeling ill at the mere thought of having to go through it again.
I'll repeat - I cannot fathom that any MMO offering PvE and PVP gameplay (and even mixing them in cause of Gauntglrym) could be released these days without this kind of a must-have feature. Money-grabbing and extremely inconvenient - some people will go along with it, but how many will just not bother and go away? In the case of a few friends I tried to get into the game, it was one of the major off-putting elements. It is for me as well - which is why I have currently no plans to stick for the "end-game" of Neverwinter.
Now, what I could see the devs doing is allowing a few different power tray loadouts, (similar to builds in Champions Online) - where you could have a control-heavy loadout or a more DPS-oriented one on another. You'd still draw from the same selection of powers and such, it'd just be more convenient than having to re-drag and drop powers from the powers window everytime you wanted to change.
I consider that a separate problem. Important, just completely separate. Having to scroll down the powers window to re-drag and drop powers for different situations gets old very quickly. It's tiresome. This kind of solution would be nice to have.
0
tazokhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
I see some incredibly weird arguments against dual specs in here.
Not D&D like? Because this game is closely following the D&D rules in terms of combat and how the classes operate, right? Besides the six standard ability scores (which give arbitrary benefits), I hardly see anything that resembles the PnP versions I knew. It's more of a mix of Diablo and Dungeon Siege, or any other hack&slash that limits how many powers you can use at once. Very much dynamic action oriented.
Rolling an alt is not a solution. First, some of us get attached to their characters. If someone wants to have one main, that's their right. They should not be forced into levelling and gearing up another toon as a silly workaround. It's also fairly time-consuming, which kind of matters if playing games isn't the only thing you do in life. Most of all, it's also boring to level up another class of the same type and repeat everything you've just done.
If you only do PvE and PvP is such a strange concept for you (or vice versa), you also wouldn't understand why someone might need a different skill of powers and feats in order to properly enjoy both. You couldn't. If you don't like either PvE or PvP, then you are obviously based and it's evident in your reasoning.
Yes, you could roll with one spec and be average or mediocre at both (and since the game isn't extremely challenging, you would be just fine). But if you wanted to optimize, you are out of luck. Or you would need to spend huge amounts of money and time, which is not exactly encouraging.
With that kind of money you could get much better games than Neverwinter. And the time it takes to respec is more than just a minor inconvenience (at least for people with jobs and reliatonships). Reassigning all the numerous points in abilities, powers, and feats - every single time. Boring, dull, unwieldy. Do it several times and you'll be feeling ill at the mere thought of having to go through it again.
I'll repeat - I cannot fathom that any MMO offering PvE and PVP gameplay (and even mixing them in cause of Gauntglrym) could be released these days without this kind of a must-have feature. Money-grabbing and extremely inconvenient - some people will go along with it, but how many will just not bother and go away? In the case of a few friends I tried to get into the game, it was one of the major off-putting elements. It is for me as well - which is why I have currently no plans to stick for the "end-game" of Neverwinter.
I consider that a separate problem. Important, just completely separate. Having to scroll down the powers window to re-drag and drop powers for different situations gets old very quickly. It's tiresome. This kind of solution would be nice to have.
...wow..you sir are amazing. Thank you, You red my mind and everyone else's and put it out there. thank you.
0
bitz06Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 24Arc User
Dual Loadouts is what you NEED, as it is pretty tedious to have to swap out each skill one by one.
Dual Specs is just something that would be nice to have, but not quite as desperately necessary as folks are trying to make it seem.
This a thousand times ^. As a CW I'm constantly switching from a PvP/Single target DPS setup to an AoE setup, and then ofcourse to make everyone in a dungeon happy repel mastery setup. A few loadouts would be great. If necessary put a 7 second cooldown on them like spell swapping has.
0
aaronjfMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Bump.. I wouldn't mind dual spec either. Won't make or break anything for me but would be nice
Dual Loadouts is what you NEED, as it is pretty tedious to have to swap out each skill one by one.
Yes, something like this I could support. It would be akin to "memorizing spells" on the caster side. However, there should be a need to rest between switching loadouts. Campsites and safe town areas and structures only. I really like this idea, actually!
For melees, weapon sets would be great. Then again, melees should be able to utilize all weapons in the game, and use a shield if they wish. Without this addition to the game, weapon sets of course are unnecessary.
Dual spec is just way too far away from D&D principle. No need at ALL in this game, when you can just level/train another character to max in 3 days to a week.
Translated: Shut up cleric be my slave follow me around and heal me while I have fun killing people with my OP class.
This game there is no healer class, it's leader class that is supposed to be able to off-dps / off-control / off-heal / buff,debuff. But they failed and made it <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at everything.
Besides you don't have first idea about cleric heals... even if cleric fully specs into damage his heals heal for pretty much same thing. DPS cleric can just as easily place down AS for you as any other cleric - and if he doesn't have feats to give him a few % more healing makes almost no difference. It's power choice that makes the difference no matter the build.
Also you are scoring points and cleric healing you gets him 0 points. In end cleric gets <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> xp, glory and you get 1st place. Ofc you don't care about that.
Cleric wants his team to win, but heals are outdamaged by every single other class by 10fold - why would he bother healing you for 1k when people are hiting you for 10k. Sometimes a good placed AS can help in big fight, tho it's because people are stupid and fight inside it when they could so easily just move away.
In the end everyone can fight any way they wish. If anything annoys you - make premade with people who don't annoy you. You are the one behaving childishly and you got no right to tell others how to play or to yell at them to heal you.
If you don't want to heal your team, then don't play healer. Do you have a brain ? Are you able to understand roles... so, in your opinion, what is the cleric role in a team ?
If healing others disgust you to this point I suggest you to just change for another class better than annoying people about your very right to be just a lame and stupid player.
Actually I am planning to play a healer asa I get more char slots, I'm pretty curious to see how bad people of your kind are, and I think I'll spend my whole PvP time insulting other ****ty healers like you seems to be. Yeah, you know, the ones letting others dying because they don't bother using shield or just using a slight heal to save the *** of a mate barely alive and trying to make his way to a potion. Why bother ? If he doesn't die at this time, I'll die another time anyway : so why bother to heal, people just need to get potions and hit respawning button asap.
You're so freaking ridiculously pathetic that if I could I'd banned you from any team game for life.
Correction: A D&D game with misplaced* PvP needs Dual Spec. D&D doesn't.
*IMO. PvP has no place in a D&D game.
Whaaaat?!??! Pvp is the only thing in this game even remotely close to d&d.
Are you saying your dm has monsters and npcs just mindlessly charge at you that are basically cannon fodder? If i am running a goblin or orc campaign that could work, ( for like the first wave of attackers)but one shoting lvl 1s gets old very quickly.
I prefer crafting my npcs as intelligent, versatile fighters that give the pcs a challenge. Make them equal, or slightly below, the pcs. Allows for interesting encounters, makes the pcs feel they have overcome difficult odds, and are much more enjoyable campaigns to run as a dm.
Only mindless monsters like slimes or owlbears should behave as the mobs in this games pve behave.
Fighting other players, even in scenario as unfriendly to rp'ing as a instanced domination based bg, is more inline with a true d&d combat experience.
Back to the original topic, i would welcome dual specs b/c i enjoy pvp and pve. It would be nice if my character could be effective at both without dropping ad everytime. Also, some of the best pvp gear can only be found in pve instances. So you almost need to pve to be about to pvp with bis (depending on class/spec). Gg's pve/pvp set up doesnt help the situation.
It would be nice to have dual spec even if you don't pvp.... dungeons and grouping vs. soloing can be very different. I don't understand why some people are going so "That is SO against D&D." There are countless things in this game that are so against D&D... why would this matter to anyone it would probably be the least of offenses to D&D.
I'm especially thinking of my cleric on this topic.... soloing with a pure healing spec is sort of tortuous.
Comments
Thank you for that.
It DOES, however, needs Dual Skill Loadouts, swappable at a Campfire.
Would be nice to have another load out for our powers though. Not a different spec/build. Just a faster way to switch between powers we already put points in. This was also suggested in the preview forums.
Anyways...Dual Spec clearly makes sense to me. And yep..I came from WoW and remember when dual specs came out and it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, made the game so much better. It made me want to play more not less...it didn't keep me from rolling alts, and as far as I can tell it didn't upset the roleplayers world's either.
+1 for dual spec
But if I could press a button and switch from CC to DPS and vice versa, then I wouldn't have to worry about this anymore!
Oh there's a ledge! Switch to CC, knock stuff off! Oh now there's no more ledge, switch to DPS and top the meters again.
I think you are in the wrong spot for this...this is for dual spec not dual encounters/spell bar.
The rules of D&D aren't sacrosanct. The makers of the pnp game have completely changed their own rules several times. Compare Basic to AD&D 1st Ed. to D&D 3.5 to D&D 4. The rules of D&D have changed quite substantially over the years.
This is simply another form of D&D that is different from other forms of the past.
Anyway, this particular form of D&D harkens back to the simplicity of earlier versions, so I'm against adding the complexity of a dual spec system due to the modern feel of it.
Not D&D like? Because this game is closely following the D&D rules in terms of combat and how the classes operate, right? Besides the six standard ability scores (which give arbitrary benefits), I hardly see anything that resembles the PnP versions I knew. It's more of a mix of Diablo and Dungeon Siege, or any other hack&slash that limits how many powers you can use at once. Very much dynamic action oriented.
Rolling an alt is not a solution. First, some of us get attached to their characters. If someone wants to have one main, that's their right. They should not be forced into levelling and gearing up another toon as a silly workaround. It's also fairly time-consuming, which kind of matters if playing games isn't the only thing you do in life. Most of all, it's also boring to level up another class of the same type and repeat everything you've just done.
If you only do PvE and PvP is such a strange concept for you (or vice versa), you also wouldn't understand why someone might need a different skill of powers and feats in order to properly enjoy both. You couldn't. If you don't like either PvE or PvP, then you are obviously based and it's evident in your reasoning.
Yes, you could roll with one spec and be average or mediocre at both (and since the game isn't extremely challenging, you would be just fine). But if you wanted to optimize, you are out of luck. Or you would need to spend huge amounts of money and time, which is not exactly encouraging.
With that kind of money you could get much better games than Neverwinter. And the time it takes to respec is more than just a minor inconvenience (at least for people with jobs and reliatonships). Reassigning all the numerous points in abilities, powers, and feats - every single time. Boring, dull, unwieldy. Do it several times and you'll be feeling ill at the mere thought of having to go through it again.
I'll repeat - I cannot fathom that any MMO offering PvE and PVP gameplay (and even mixing them in cause of Gauntglrym) could be released these days without this kind of a must-have feature. Money-grabbing and extremely inconvenient - some people will go along with it, but how many will just not bother and go away? In the case of a few friends I tried to get into the game, it was one of the major off-putting elements. It is for me as well - which is why I have currently no plans to stick for the "end-game" of Neverwinter.
I consider that a separate problem. Important, just completely separate. Having to scroll down the powers window to re-drag and drop powers for different situations gets old very quickly. It's tiresome. This kind of solution would be nice to have.
...wow..you sir are amazing. Thank you, You red my mind and everyone else's and put it out there. thank you.
TSYM Website
Dragon Server
Dual Loadouts is what you NEED, as it is pretty tedious to have to swap out each skill one by one.
Dual Specs is just something that would be nice to have, but not quite as desperately necessary as folks are trying to make it seem.
This a thousand times ^. As a CW I'm constantly switching from a PvP/Single target DPS setup to an AoE setup, and then ofcourse to make everyone in a dungeon happy repel mastery setup. A few loadouts would be great. If necessary put a 7 second cooldown on them like spell swapping has.
Yes, something like this I could support. It would be akin to "memorizing spells" on the caster side. However, there should be a need to rest between switching loadouts. Campsites and safe town areas and structures only. I really like this idea, actually!
For melees, weapon sets would be great. Then again, melees should be able to utilize all weapons in the game, and use a shield if they wish. Without this addition to the game, weapon sets of course are unnecessary.
Dual spec is just way too far away from D&D principle. No need at ALL in this game, when you can just level/train another character to max in 3 days to a week.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
If you don't want to heal your team, then don't play healer. Do you have a brain ? Are you able to understand roles... so, in your opinion, what is the cleric role in a team ?
If healing others disgust you to this point I suggest you to just change for another class better than annoying people about your very right to be just a lame and stupid player.
Actually I am planning to play a healer asa I get more char slots, I'm pretty curious to see how bad people of your kind are, and I think I'll spend my whole PvP time insulting other ****ty healers like you seems to be. Yeah, you know, the ones letting others dying because they don't bother using shield or just using a slight heal to save the *** of a mate barely alive and trying to make his way to a potion. Why bother ? If he doesn't die at this time, I'll die another time anyway : so why bother to heal, people just need to get potions and hit respawning button asap.
You're so freaking ridiculously pathetic that if I could I'd banned you from any team game for life.
Whaaaat?!??! Pvp is the only thing in this game even remotely close to d&d.
Are you saying your dm has monsters and npcs just mindlessly charge at you that are basically cannon fodder? If i am running a goblin or orc campaign that could work, ( for like the first wave of attackers)but one shoting lvl 1s gets old very quickly.
I prefer crafting my npcs as intelligent, versatile fighters that give the pcs a challenge. Make them equal, or slightly below, the pcs. Allows for interesting encounters, makes the pcs feel they have overcome difficult odds, and are much more enjoyable campaigns to run as a dm.
Only mindless monsters like slimes or owlbears should behave as the mobs in this games pve behave.
Fighting other players, even in scenario as unfriendly to rp'ing as a instanced domination based bg, is more inline with a true d&d combat experience.
Back to the original topic, i would welcome dual specs b/c i enjoy pvp and pve. It would be nice if my character could be effective at both without dropping ad everytime. Also, some of the best pvp gear can only be found in pve instances. So you almost need to pve to be about to pvp with bis (depending on class/spec). Gg's pve/pvp set up doesnt help the situation.
I'm especially thinking of my cleric on this topic.... soloing with a pure healing spec is sort of tortuous.