Power is not complicated it's just a lot of work. Each ability has it's own power coefficient and you can get an idea of what it is by taking off your weapon and looking at your tooltip damage with and without power, then dividing the difference by the amount of power you changed. You then subtract the base damage (the damage with no gear) and the damage bonus from power from your fully geared damage tooltip, and the remainder is your weapon damage. Divide min and max weapon damage from the min and max damage on your weapon and you get a weapon damage coefficient (usually the same number for both min and max).
I am planning to do this with Wizard, Great Weapon Fighter, Cleric and Rogue.....but not until after the class update on the 20th, plus however long it takes to compile the data. I don't have access to a Guardian Fighter so that's someone elses job.
I don't have access to a Guardian Fighter so that's someone elses job.
I however do have access to a GF. I can gather some data for the commonly used GF skills on the preview server, and how they respond to an increase/decrease in power. Some complications I might run into is getting below 1000 power. The DPS GF build converts shield meter into power, and it will be too difficult to get any data lower than 1000. If you have any particular statistics you want me to find out, I'll be more than happy to help.
Am I misunderstanding something about power? It seems like every skill scales at more or less the same percentage per class, with the odd exception. My understanding is that the actual ability coefficient that converts power into damage is just used to make power constitute the same fraction of every ability. Are there abilities that somehow scale better with power than others?
Yea, verified linear. Here are my results taken from the live client, since the preview servers were down...
That's great Ferret09, thanks. You have 3 points in all of those powers? I'll also need to know what Feats you have and how much Strength you have to work out the coefficients from your data.
Am I misunderstanding something about power? It seems like every skill scales at more or less the same percentage per class, with the odd exception.
Nope not even close. There is no correlation between the bonus from Power and the abilities base damage.
Here's some examples (although they're skewed by my feats and stats, you'll get the idea): Chill Strike: 0.139% of base damage per 1 power. Arcane Singularity: No bonus from power. Shards of the Endless Avalanche: 0.012% of base damage per 1 power. Ice Storm: Non-linear scaling from power. Steal Time: 0.039% of base damage per 1 power.
That's great Ferret09, thanks. You have 3 points in all of those powers? I'll also need to know what Feats you have and how much Strength you have to work out the coefficients from your data.
Most of those skills go unused, but I thought they should be included. My character has 24 STR.
Feats that may have an influence:
Cleave has a +15% damage increase
Increased damage of at-wills and encounters by 10% (Every skill on the chart excluding Villan's Menace and Terrifying Impact)
Effectiveness of STR increased by 15%
Some of those might be hard to calculate into your data.
Most of those skills go unused, but I thought they should be included. My character has 24 STR.
Feats that may have an influence:
Cleave has a +15% damage increase
Increased damage of at-wills and encounters by 10% (Every skill on the chart excluding Villan's Menace and Terrifying Impact)
Effectiveness of STR increased by 15%
Some of those might be hard to calculate into your data.
If i'm not mistaken the multipliers that say "more" multiply everything else while "additional" get added to each other.
Thanks Ferret09, I've been thinking about breaking down the way different bonuses are applied to abilites, this just gives me more incentive.
Update 2013-06-12: Made small adjustments to the formulas for Armor Penetration, Defense and Deflection, as well as adjusting their level constants. Adjusted the level constant of Recovery.
Would you mind checking this out: "If i'm not mistaken, the multipliers that say "more" multiply everything else while "additional" get added to each other." I'm too lazy atm and don't have much time.
Yo ! I'm very interested in the topic, thanks for your work !
I don't get your recovery tooltip formula : 36*Recovery^1.5/(102.309+Recovery^1.5)
I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it doesnt land anywhere around tooltip... anyway here are some data :
- 26 int (+16%), 19 wis (+9%)
- 5/5 in Fight on feat (+10%)
- EF = Entangling Force, Ray = Ray of Enfeeblement, ST = Steal Time
I don't have all the numbers because it's difficult to obtain, I will test more and update if you need.
If 14 is indeed the base cd of Ray (cd of tabbed ray, unaffected by anything it seems), it doesn't exactly fit the formula InitialCastTime/(1+StatBonus+RecovTooltip)/(1+FeatBonus).
Would you mind checking this out: "If i'm not mistaken, the multipliers that say "more" multiply everything else while "additional" get added to each other." I'm too lazy atm and don't have much time.
...I'll get back to you on that. I'm going to dig into this stuff post-release by clearing all my stats with a Respect Token and checking the effect of Feats and Stats. I've just found that stats and feats and the recovery bonus are all added together (see below), do they all say "Additional"?
Yo ! I'm very interested in the topic, thanks for your work !
I don't get your recovery tooltip formula : 36*Recovery^1.5/(102.309+Recovery^1.5)
I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it doesnt land anywhere around tooltip... anyway here are some data :
- 26 int (+16%), 19 wis (+9%)
- 5/5 in Fight on feat (+10%)
If 14 is indeed the base cd of Ray (cd of tabbed ray, unaffected by anything it seems), it doesn't exactly fit the formula InitialCastTime/(1+StatBonus+RecovTooltip)/(1+FeatBonus).
Thanks!
It's 102309 rather than 102.309. Using a comma as a decimal place, that's a European thing yeah? I'd better remove them if they're confusing. 36*Recovery^1.5/(102309+Recovery^1.5) works fine for you numbers, I checked them all. Actually two of your numbers helped me refine the level constant.
You're right about the Encounter Ability Cooldown Time formula, it wasn't quite right. Try: Encounter Ability Cooldown Time = InitialCooldownTime/(1+StatBonus+FeatBonus+0.36*Recovery^1.5/(102309+Recovery^1.5))
This new formula works if the abilities have initial cooldown times with fractions of a second: Entangling Force = 15.81 seconds Ray of Enfeeblement = 13.82 Steal Time = 21.76
Those match all your numbers. I don't know why the initial cooldowns are so specific but there's no reason why they can't be. Everything I've found in NW's math is more complex than it needs to be so why not this?
Update 2013-06-18: I was able to confirm the multiplicative boost to abilities damages from stats, feats, and the number of points you have in that ability. Also confirmed that the first point gives the same damage bonus as the second and third points (typically +10%).
There's some weird discrepancies in the bonus from adding points though, it may say +20% (it's a 30% bonus counting the first point) but the actual bonus varies slightly from ability to ability. One might get +29%, another +30% and another +33%. Also the minimum weapon damage seems to get a very slightly (0.1% to 0.3%) smaller boost than the maximum weapon damage. I have no idea why this is, so these formulas for ability damage are very close to but not exactly correct.
Hi all. How after patch plaguefire enchantment works? Does it reduces defence by formula (24% - 15%) = 9% or 24% - (24*0.15) = 20.4%. And how equal to armor penetration is reducing target's defence by 450?
Hi all. How after patch plaguefire enchantment works? Does it reduces defence by formula (24% - 15%) = 9% or 24% - (24*0.15) = 20.4%. And how equal to armor penetration is reducing target's defence by 450?
Plaguefire after patch can at max mitigate 9% of enemy defense... it's garbage. At max you'll get ~1% damage increase, vorpal is leagues ahead.
So 450-40.5 = 399.5 Defense after the buff is applied, really not that great. Oh, and armor penetration is also applied before this, so if you have enough to mitigate DR to 0, plaguefire will potentially do nothing as far as DR is concerned.
So 450-40.5 = 399.5 Defense after the buff is applied, really not that great. Oh, and armor penetration is also applied before this, so if you have enough to mitigate DR to 0, plaguefire will potentially do nothing as far as DR is concerned.
Incorrect. GPF is a 3% per stack / 9% direct damage increase on Dummies.
The question is if targets that haven't had their DR reduced to 0 with Armor Penetration behave the same way or not.
May I suggest you match your variable names with the vocabulary used by the game ?
Like for instance "StatBonus" --> Ability Score Bonus, "Armor Penetration Tooltip" --> Armor Penetration, "ArmorPenetration" --> Amor Penetration Rating
Personally I'd use color codes for %, ratings and so on...
Other than that it's really solid work that you've done here.
By the way can I ask what kind of Feat you refer to in your Armor Penetration formula when you put the variable FeatBonus ?
fimconte your results about Greater Plague Fire are both interesting and puzzling.
Student of the Sword feat from GWF is supposed to have the exact same effect (-45% armor) but actually removes 5% mitigation per stack as opposed to GPF enchant removing only 3% from your own tests.
I think that this whole flat armor removed, amor % removed, resistance ignored... that's all bulls**t.
Mobs don't have armor, armor class or any of that. Or at least these are not the variable actually affected by damage enhancement effets like Armor Penetration and so on.
I think mobs are simply coded with a mitigation % as their defensive stat, and this % is affected by every other effect by doing simple operations using flat percentages.
For instance GPF isn't removing 45% of whatever armor there may be, it's removing 9% mitigation.
Same goes for Student of the Sword removing 15%.
I think some effects can remove mitigation down to 0% (Armor Penetration % + Ability Score Bonuses for some classes) and some will go into negatives.
Can someone confirm the Mitigation % of dummies ? I think it's 0% (?)
May I suggest you match your variable names with the vocabulary used by the game ?
Makes sense in theory...did you find the formulas confusing with the current variable names?
Power and powers are two separate things though, so I don't like calling them powers. Maybe Spells and AbilityScoreBonus would be better than Abilities and StatBonus....probably confuse people that have gotten used to be terminology.
By the way can I ask what kind of Feat you refer to in your Armor Penetration formula when you put the variable FeatBonus ?
Cleric heroic feat is the only one I'm aware of. I haven't tested that one personally which I normally dont trust, but it came from someone reliable and it makes sense given the size of the bonus.
It seems as though the Armor Specialization feat for Guardian Fighters isnt doing anything? My Damage Resistance is 45%, which matches the formula. But I add in the 15% Strength/Defense buff from the feat, and it (obviously) gives me a higher number on paper then my character has in game. Can anyone confirm this?
It seems as though the Armor Specialization feat for Guardian Fighters isnt doing anything?
Last I heard on this was that it does work but does not show on your character screen. To test it you have to get hit and look at the numbers in the combat log. For example a 3000 damage hit will show as either:
1650 (3000), which is (3000-1650)/3000 = 45% mitigation
Or
1448 (3000), which is (3000-1448)/3000 = 51.7% mitigation
Comments
I am planning to do this with Wizard, Great Weapon Fighter, Cleric and Rogue.....but not until after the class update on the 20th, plus however long it takes to compile the data. I don't have access to a Guardian Fighter so that's someone elses job.
I however do have access to a GF. I can gather some data for the commonly used GF skills on the preview server, and how they respond to an increase/decrease in power. Some complications I might run into is getting below 1000 power. The DPS GF build converts shield meter into power, and it will be too difficult to get any data lower than 1000. If you have any particular statistics you want me to find out, I'll be more than happy to help.
[SIGPIC]avalonguild.com[/SIGPIC]
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B98LzfG4v8byOVBFeV8xb1M3YjA/edit?usp=sharing
Edit: All skills tested were rank 3, some fears may have increase cleave and other abilities.
[SIGPIC]avalonguild.com[/SIGPIC]
That's great to hear Sanctumlol, perhaps you could share them.
Have you factored in the bonuses from Strength, points in the abilities and Feats?
That's great Ferret09, thanks. You have 3 points in all of those powers? I'll also need to know what Feats you have and how much Strength you have to work out the coefficients from your data.
Nope not even close. There is no correlation between the bonus from Power and the abilities base damage.
Here's some examples (although they're skewed by my feats and stats, you'll get the idea):
Chill Strike: 0.139% of base damage per 1 power.
Arcane Singularity: No bonus from power.
Shards of the Endless Avalanche: 0.012% of base damage per 1 power.
Ice Storm: Non-linear scaling from power.
Steal Time: 0.039% of base damage per 1 power.
Most of those skills go unused, but I thought they should be included. My character has 24 STR.
Feats that may have an influence:
Cleave has a +15% damage increase
Increased damage of at-wills and encounters by 10% (Every skill on the chart excluding Villan's Menace and Terrifying Impact)
Effectiveness of STR increased by 15%
Some of those might be hard to calculate into your data.
[SIGPIC]avalonguild.com[/SIGPIC]
If i'm not mistaken the multipliers that say "more" multiply everything else while "additional" get added to each other.
Update 2013-06-12: Made small adjustments to the formulas for Armor Penetration, Defense and Deflection, as well as adjusting their level constants. Adjusted the level constant of Recovery.
I don't get your recovery tooltip formula : 36*Recovery^1.5/(102.309+Recovery^1.5)
I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it doesnt land anywhere around tooltip... anyway here are some data :
- 26 int (+16%), 19 wis (+9%)
- 5/5 in Fight on feat (+10%)
- EF = Entangling Force, Ray = Ray of Enfeeblement, ST = Steal Time I don't have all the numbers because it's difficult to obtain, I will test more and update if you need.
If 14 is indeed the base cd of Ray (cd of tabbed ray, unaffected by anything it seems), it doesn't exactly fit the formula InitialCastTime/(1+StatBonus+RecovTooltip)/(1+FeatBonus).
...I'll get back to you on that. I'm going to dig into this stuff post-release by clearing all my stats with a Respect Token and checking the effect of Feats and Stats. I've just found that stats and feats and the recovery bonus are all added together (see below), do they all say "Additional"?
Thanks!
It's 102309 rather than 102.309. Using a comma as a decimal place, that's a European thing yeah? I'd better remove them if they're confusing. 36*Recovery^1.5/(102309+Recovery^1.5) works fine for you numbers, I checked them all. Actually two of your numbers helped me refine the level constant.
You're right about the Encounter Ability Cooldown Time formula, it wasn't quite right. Try:
Encounter Ability Cooldown Time = InitialCooldownTime/(1+StatBonus+FeatBonus+0.36*Recovery^1.5/(102309+Recovery^1.5))
This new formula works if the abilities have initial cooldown times with fractions of a second:
Entangling Force = 15.81 seconds
Ray of Enfeeblement = 13.82
Steal Time = 21.76
Those match all your numbers. I don't know why the initial cooldowns are so specific but there's no reason why they can't be. Everything I've found in NW's math is more complex than it needs to be so why not this?
There's some weird discrepancies in the bonus from adding points though, it may say +20% (it's a 30% bonus counting the first point) but the actual bonus varies slightly from ability to ability. One might get +29%, another +30% and another +33%. Also the minimum weapon damage seems to get a very slightly (0.1% to 0.3%) smaller boost than the maximum weapon damage. I have no idea why this is, so these formulas for ability damage are very close to but not exactly correct.
Plaguefire after patch can at max mitigate 9% of enemy defense... it's garbage. At max you'll get ~1% damage increase, vorpal is leagues ahead.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
So 9% of 450 = 40.5
So 450-40.5 = 399.5 Defense after the buff is applied, really not that great. Oh, and armor penetration is also applied before this, so if you have enough to mitigate DR to 0, plaguefire will potentially do nothing as far as DR is concerned.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
Incorrect. GPF is a 3% per stack / 9% direct damage increase on Dummies.
The question is if targets that haven't had their DR reduced to 0 with Armor Penetration behave the same way or not.
(See my post here for proof: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?230252-Metzli-s-Dungeon-DPS-Guide&p=4515691&viewfull=1#post4515691)
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
Thanks for the help with that.
For anyone interested:
Formula for maximum healing per three seconds from regeneration:
0.2077*Regeneration^1.3/(12938+Regeneration^1.3)/2*MaxHealth
And an If/then statement for excel to determine how much healing someone will receive depending on their current health:
=IF(CHP>50%,(58.77*CHP^5 - 231.99*CHP^4 + 363.42*CHP^3 - 282.32*CHP^2 + 106.73*CHP- 14.583)*(0.2077*Regeneration^1.3/(12938+Regeneration^1.3)/2*MaxHealth),(0.2077*Regeneration^1.3/(12938+Regeneration^1.3)/2*MaxHealth))
CHP = Current Health Points as a percent of maximum (e.g., 50% or .5)
Like for instance "StatBonus" --> Ability Score Bonus, "Armor Penetration Tooltip" --> Armor Penetration, "ArmorPenetration" --> Amor Penetration Rating
Personally I'd use color codes for %, ratings and so on...
Other than that it's really solid work that you've done here.
By the way can I ask what kind of Feat you refer to in your Armor Penetration formula when you put the variable FeatBonus ?
Student of the Sword feat from GWF is supposed to have the exact same effect (-45% armor) but actually removes 5% mitigation per stack as opposed to GPF enchant removing only 3% from your own tests.
I think that this whole flat armor removed, amor % removed, resistance ignored... that's all bulls**t.
Mobs don't have armor, armor class or any of that. Or at least these are not the variable actually affected by damage enhancement effets like Armor Penetration and so on.
I think mobs are simply coded with a mitigation % as their defensive stat, and this % is affected by every other effect by doing simple operations using flat percentages.
For instance GPF isn't removing 45% of whatever armor there may be, it's removing 9% mitigation.
Same goes for Student of the Sword removing 15%.
I think some effects can remove mitigation down to 0% (Armor Penetration % + Ability Score Bonuses for some classes) and some will go into negatives.
Can someone confirm the Mitigation % of dummies ? I think it's 0% (?)
Makes sense in theory...did you find the formulas confusing with the current variable names?
Power and powers are two separate things though, so I don't like calling them powers. Maybe Spells and AbilityScoreBonus would be better than Abilities and StatBonus....probably confuse people that have gotten used to be terminology.
Noooo colour tags are super annoying when I'm editing.
Cleric heroic feat is the only one I'm aware of. I haven't tested that one personally which I normally dont trust, but it came from someone reliable and it makes sense given the size of the bonus.
It seems as though the Armor Specialization feat for Guardian Fighters isnt doing anything? My Damage Resistance is 45%, which matches the formula. But I add in the 15% Strength/Defense buff from the feat, and it (obviously) gives me a higher number on paper then my character has in game. Can anyone confirm this?
Last I heard on this was that it does work but does not show on your character screen. To test it you have to get hit and look at the numbers in the combat log. For example a 3000 damage hit will show as either:
1650 (3000), which is (3000-1650)/3000 = 45% mitigation
Or
1448 (3000), which is (3000-1448)/3000 = 51.7% mitigation
Try it and see!