So you chose to play a PvE focused game and do nothing but play PvP? I'll never understand PvPer's....
And they have ranged attacks because they have them in 4e. They can choose to be ranged or melee at anytime. Why do players like you keep assuming that rogues are strictly melee? No where, in any book/game/pnp content does it say they are not allowed to use ranged. And quit saying 'we' like you actually play one. Everyone knows you don't. Acting like you do then asking for nerfs is childish....
AT least they should lower the stacks available for CoS imho .
What good does the ability to move do when you cannot do anything else, I just cannot grasp what you are trying to prove here.
What he's trying to say, and what you are completely failing to understand, is that ALL classes have cc that completely shut you down. The fact that you are ignoring all other cc and complaining about the TR proves that you just want to keep your cc and deny anyone else the same. You know exactly what he means. You just choose to ignore it...
more people complains in PVP because there was NOTHING you could do about it. Those same players ran that set up in PVE and it affected noone except got themselves loot, so why would they complain?
Seems logical is 1 team gets screwed having NO DCs and the other has 2 DCs with AS stack, youll hear about it on the forums alright....
People group and double stack DC AS in PVE? Itll be only the classes who were left out of that group that will complain...
People complain when they feel "wronged" only a rare few go "hey this is OP I should probably report this" especialyl when they can use that for personal gain...
TO ALL THE TRS SAYING KEEP PERMA STEALTH IN GAME: If you have to rely on a mechanic that allows you to attack someone while they cannot attack you, thats called a 1 sided fight, and your bad... Even if it doesnt kill you, its a HUGE advantage that you can already stealth and sneak up on players. Perma stealth? It needs to be nerfed. Especially when there really isnt any skill needed to do it. I see TRs utilize other builds all the time that have AMAZING damage capability without relying on this at all... So dont say the class is worthless you just can EZ-mode roll face on keyboard to win mode anymore
You mean like choke/stun/kd from 100-0? Or you just advocating a nerf to another class as long as your cc's are left untouched? You are a hypocrite. You want perma stealth/CoS gone? Remove the choke/stun/kd from every other class.
GF need only 1 thing to REMOVE Tab Option it usles ,mark is slower then at-will mark an only affect 1 ppl or mob! I personaly only use it on T.O.I epic to lure add out . I thin the second Worst class is CW think about what you play !You play d&d, think about Elmister books MAGE WIZARD SORCERER WARLOCK(maching gods) was always op and this is good why? beacuse magic is always an advantege over steel or bow!
Rouge was always a joke he can only kill mage if he use toilet(and this is the point if you want play dirty play rouge stab if somone sleep in bead). Think about the best rouge in d&d Jarlaxe can't even kill a ranger pff.. But if you want play brave face the danger play Warrior classes or Cleric if you want play power ower ppl play wizard!
The only thing in d&d can mach mage was cleric heavy armor favored by good'S and can hit like rouge + spells full heal in no sec AND what i really miss resurection ! BUT as i say before DC is no cleric its only adept
You are.....wow....just.....
The best rogue in FR was Artemis Entreri. He mud stomped every **** person he ran into. Even facerolled Drizzt....twice, killed 4 archmages, 6 weapon masters (Fighters), and was even feared by the Drow. The rogue was never a joke. If you honestly believe that then you have never played with a good one. Btw, Elminster got his *** kicked by a rogue once. And a warrior. Now go back to your hole....
You mean like choke/stun/kd from 100-0? Or you just advocating a nerf to another class as long as your cc's are left untouched? You are a hypocrite. You want perma stealth/CoS gone? Remove the choke/stun/kd from every other class.
The attack can be avoided/defended against. You obviously just can't cope.
Who's being the hypocrite now? I would have to say there is a bit of difference in the fact that after you dodge the choke/stun/kd you can see your target and fight back. After you dodge 2 or 3 CoS attacks, oh that's right there's 9 or 10+ more coming from a target you can't see. I've said it before in another post and I'll say it again here. Anyone defending this build either is a troll, hasn't experienced how overpowered it is when done correctly, or is just plain ignorant. My guess is you fall under the ignorant category and you obviously just can't cope.
My first toon to 60 was a TR. After this last patch I can honestly say screw you all and the nerf bat. Swing it somewhere else. We are supposed to be the highest damage class by design lore etc. as far as the classes available. CW's GWF GF all reak havoc on us in a grp setting. A CW gets the jump on us and we are done. GWF same way It has been said allready each class has pros and Cons.
My lvl 50 GWF is way easier to play and can typicaly sustain most barrages add a cleric to back me up and the TR better go find a solo TR or CW that aint looking. The TR has become an easy target hell a CW doesn't even try to avoid a TR anymore. Used to be a CW would CC warp nuke constantly on the move now they just burn us down oh yeah us TR's are over powered. Oh a tank w/ no dmg hmm wait hold block ok kd hit daily block haha can't hit me.
Honestly I think the TR has more room to ***** than the other classes a TR with just regular gear or full PvP gear maybe some rare pieces **** sure can't take the hits. At lvl 60 on my TR just this morning I had a CW grab me throw me in the air kill me. I snuck up on the same CW got the drop and hate to say it he still killed me. Later i eventually was able to kill him once after i changed my abilities and combo.
Other TR's have schooled me and some can't handle me. PvP has alot has to do with the other people on your team not just abilities and gear.
The this is a PVE game screw PvP Ha this is a money game like anything else and they know that people want the competetion from the PvP as well as PvE. Games now days don't make it w/o catering to both.
I will have to say I just witnessed the extreme of this build. Somone on Dragon server supposed to have the best gear as a TR used the lames tactic ever. He went to our base 1. Wearing a perfectsoulforge as well. Would use a tactic stealth, dagger, jump down tumble pot. run up. Stealth dagger. After 30 secs I said yea this is stupid going to go fight the rest of your team cause I want to get some PvP in. Not chase a ghost. He would snipe ppl coming out of base tumble away get low life mount pot. Jump down back up. Basically he was Perma stealth, potting and almost uncatchable. In the match latter we all took the pots from the map. Got our cleric and 2 tanks and a CW on him. Took a 5v1 of geared player against this tactic. To down him.
Now my thought is this. If you want to go to this extreme and be that lame go ahead. I will just find someone else who wants to fight. Kudo's though for being the lamest rogue I ever met. It was extra impressive. I mean our whole team was laughing about it. We won the game hes not a team player so he lost. Just his tactics wow. I don't blame any player that leaves soon as a dagger from stealth hits them after seeing this Mega Nub tactic.
I will have to say I just witnessed the extreme of this build. Somone on Dragon server supposed to have the best gear as a TR used the lames tactic ever. He went to our base 1. Wearing a perfectsoulforge as well. Would use a tactic stealth, dagger, jump down tumble pot. run up. Stealth dagger. After 30 secs I said yea this is stupid going to go fight the rest of your team cause I want to get some PvP in. Not chase a ghost. He would snipe ppl coming out of base tumble away get low life mount pot. Jump down back up. Basically he was Perma stealth, potting and almost uncatchable. In the match latter we all took the pots from the map. Got our cleric and 2 tanks and a CW on him. Took a 5v1 of geared player against this tactic. To down him.
Now my thought is this. If you want to go to this extreme and be that lame go ahead. I will just find someone else who wants to fight. Kudo's though for being the lamest rogue I ever met. It was extra impressive. I mean our whole team was laughing about it. We won the game hes not a team player so he lost. Just his tactics wow. I don't blame any player that leaves soon as a dagger from stealth hits them after seeing this Mega Nub tactic.
If you won and you think his strategy is so bad, why are you crying, oh sorry excuse me, complaining about it then?
If you won and you think his strategy is so bad, why are you crying, oh sorry excuse me, complaining about it then?
Did you read what I just said ? Its extremely OP and infuriating to the point I don't want to even try to attack you. Most likely ill just leave the game if I see him again. Cause I want to PvP not rage from this. It has nothing about being good either. It has to be about some guy living up being the lamest to a fullest so he can have his fun just count me and anyone else out. Most players will leave immediately and I don't blame them. I managed to hang in there for 30 sec early on and said yup I am done with you. /nub. Yes OP lame tactics get the /nub mark. So yes it needs to be fixed. I am just painting the extreme scenario and have hopes to never see it again.
What I do now is I take all the pots I can at full life so no one get them. I rather PvP then have ppl run to there crutch. I hope they get removed the map is too small. Or at least just have 2 healing pots away from basses. I much rather see pots that had buffs then healing. A rush to get a buff before the fighting. Then awesome PvP. That's what I play for.
Did you read what I just said ? Its extremely OP and infuriating to the point I don't want to even try to attack you. Most likely ill just leave the game if I see him again. Cause I want to PvP not rage from this. It has nothing about being good either. It has to be about some guy living up being the lamest to a fullest so he can have his fun just count me and anyone else out. Most players will leave immediately and I don't blame them. I managed to hang in there for 30 sec early on and said yup I am done with you. /nub. Yes OP lame tactics get the /nub mark. So yes it needs to be fixed. I am just painting the extreme scenario and have hopes to never see it again.
What I do now is I take all the pots I can at full life so no one get them. I rather PvP then have ppl run to there crutch. I hope they get removed the map is too small. Or at least just have 2 healing pots away from basses. I much rather see pots that had buffs then healing. A rush to get a buff before the fighting. Then awesome PvP. That's what I play for.
So what you are really saying is you want the rogue to be out of stealth and stand in front of you and let you pummel them until they die, rinse and repeat. How about we take out running? Just let the rogues all teleport magically in front of you and not let them attack back either?
Would you say this same thing to a snipper in combat? That since he is taking a high ground hundreds of yards away from his actual target that he is not playing fair? That he should take his sniper riffle and get right in there toe to toe with the riffle men?
The rogue uses that tactic of hit and run because standing in front of you out of stealth is a sure death sentence but you aren't happy with that because you don't get to kill him.
Like I said before, none of the other classes will be happy until Rogue is nerfed into uselessness. I've seen it before in other games where the stealth class was flamed and cry babies wouldn't stop until they removed stealth ability rendering the class useless. If anyone played martial heroes knows exactly what I'm talking about.
So what you are really saying is you want the rogue to be out of stealth and stand in front of you and let you pummel them until they die, rinse and repeat. How about we take out running? Just let the rogues all teleport magically in front of you and not let them attack back either?
Would you say this same thing to a snipper in combat? That since he is taking a high ground hundreds of yards away from his actual target that he is not playing fair? That he should take his sniper riffle and get right in there toe to toe with the riffle men?
The rogue uses that tactic of hit and run because standing in front of you out of stealth is a sure death sentence but you aren't happy with that because you don't get to kill him.
Like I said before, none of the other classes will be happy until Rogue is nerfed into uselessness. I've seen it before in other games where the stealth class was flamed and cry babies wouldn't stop until they removed stealth ability rendering the class useless. If anyone played martial heroes knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Lol of course I don't want this. I love PvP. Player vs Player. I don't want it to be easy. I want it to be viable though. Can't kill a ghost and its not a fight if you can't actually see or ever hit your target since there always using pots from stealth and have no idea where they are most of the time. Makes it a lil hard to even target them.
Next a sniper in combat. Your analogies are completely terrible. If a sniper reveals himself in combat and his location he shouldn't be unkillable he should be vunerable since he revealed his location. The price you pay for being a sniper. This rogue would hit all target on mounts nuke. kite reveal his location only to not be targeted. It wasn't possible to target him. He was able to pot in perma stealth and it wasn't even fighting. I just want the fact that hey I know there is a rogue there and now we have to kill it. Not that hey I know there is a rogue there but I can't do anything about it cause of its perma healing tactics.
Hit and run is fine. Hit and not be able to be hit is broken.
Rogue doesn't have to be nerfed to uselessness just needs to not be unkillable with these tactics and use a complete broken method of fighting that is basically impossible to beat unless you are fighting it 5v1 which doesn't seem fair it takes a whole team to corner, take all the health pots so he can't perma stealth pot anymore and cc him into a corner for the kill.
Hope this makes better senses use some real better analogies. I like a good fight. Key word is GOOD. If I can't target something and it always has full health that takes GOOD out of the equation. I would like to see health pots removed that would break this tactic without even touching the rogue. I am open to all options just saying it has to be fixed.
Lol of course I don't want this. I love PvP. Player vs Player. I don't want it to be easy. I want it to be viable though. Can't kill a ghost and its not a fight if you can't actually see or ever hit your target since there always using pots from stealth and have no idea where they are most of the time. Makes it a lil hard to even target them.
Next a sniper in combat. Your analogies are completely terrible. If a sniper reveals himself in combat and his location he shouldn't be unkillable he should be vunerable since he revealed his location. The price you pay for being a sniper. This rogue would hit all target on mounts nuke. kite reveal his location only to not be targeted. It wasn't possible to target him. He was able to pot in perma stealth and it wasn't even fighting. I just want the fact that hey I know there is a rogue there and now we have to kill it. Not that hey I know there is a rogue there but I can't do anything about it cause of its perma healing tactics.
Hit and run is fine. Hit and not be able to be hit is broken.
Rogue doesn't have to be nerfed to uselessness just needs to not be unkillable with these tactics and use a complete broken method of fighting that is basically impossible to beat unless you are fighting it 5v1 which doesn't seem fair it takes a whole team to corner, take all the health pots so he can't perma stealth pot anymore and cc him into a corner for the kill.
Hope this makes better senses use some real better analogies. I like a good fight. Key word is GOOD. If I can't target something and it always has full health that takes GOOD out of the equation. I would like to see health pots removed that would break this tactic without even touching the rogue. I am open to all options just saying it has to be fixed.
This perma-stealth build is a relatively new thing, and the second you force them out of stealth, they are useless. Their damage is paltry and their survivability is tied completely around the stealth mechanics. A lack of offense and defense means that the entire build is based around remaining in stealth for the entirety of fights. If you take that away, then the entire build is useless. What I don't understand personally, is what is wrong with this build in your eyes. They built themselves in a way where it's very hard to land a hit on them, sure. But all it's useful for is capturing/holding nodes. A proper, damage-based rogue will always be better for the team. If there's a stealth rogue holding a point, then wait until you can outnumber him or go find another point to capture. He's clearly leaving his team at a 4v5 disadvantage, and he's extremely easy to escape from considering his low damage output. I just don't see how this is any different from say, a properly-specced and geared GF. Yes, you can see them, but the result is the same. They hold capture points and are nearly unkillable. Any damage you do to them is insignificant or completely blocked. If you try to get close, you run the risk of being stunned or pushed back.
Really all the stealth-build does is make the rogue a somewhat effective tank. What's wrong with this?
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Hope this makes better senses use some real better analogies. I like a good fight. Key word is GOOD. If I can't target something and it always has full health that takes GOOD out of the equation. I would like to see health pots removed that would break this tactic without even touching the rogue. I am open to all options just saying it has to be fixed.
I can't help that your intellect is not capable of seeing the parallels in the analogy. You would not fix the class by removing the ability to attack from stealth. It would completely destroy the class. At least 70% of the class powers deal with the rogue doing something from stealth. So if they just simply removed the ability to fight from stealth a huge majority of the powers would become useless. This means they would have to almost completely redo many of the rogue powers. Not only that but they would need to give the rogue more defense and offensive dmg dealing. But the funny thing is the cry babies like you already caused the rogue to get nerfed in damage. So giving damage back to the rogue would just reveal how silly the complaints are. Why would the rogue need to get some damage ability back? Because a majority of their damage ability comes from fighting from stealth. So in other words it is not a simple fix to just remove the ability to attack from stealth. Or getting rid of the stealth ability all together. It would mean completely redoing the rogue. I highly doubt they would take on that chore just to make whiners like you happy.
The best rogue in FR was Artemis Entreri. He mud stomped every **** person he ran into. Even facerolled Drizzt....twice, killed 4 archmages, 6 weapon masters (Fighters), and was even feared by the Drow. The rogue was never a joke. If you honestly believe that then you have never played with a good one. Btw, Elminster got his *** kicked by a rogue once. And a warrior. Now go back to your hole....
If we're down to citing FR book characters for game balance, can I have my dart/crossbow/rod wielding Cadderly Bonaduce or Quenthel Baenre type cleric now?
EDIT - Talking post Ghost King Cadderly here. :cool:
I will have to say I just witnessed the extreme of this build. Somone on Dragon server supposed to have the best gear as a TR used the lames tactic ever. He went to our base 1. Wearing a perfectsoulforge as well. Would use a tactic stealth, dagger, jump down tumble pot. run up. Stealth dagger. After 30 secs I said yea this is stupid going to go fight the rest of your team cause I want to get some PvP in. Not chase a ghost. He would snipe ppl coming out of base tumble away get low life mount pot. Jump down back up. Basically he was Perma stealth, potting and almost uncatchable. In the match latter we all took the pots from the map. Got our cleric and 2 tanks and a CW on him. Took a 5v1 of geared player against this tactic. To down him.
Now my thought is this. If you want to go to this extreme and be that lame go ahead. I will just find someone else who wants to fight. Kudo's though for being the lamest rogue I ever met. It was extra impressive. I mean our whole team was laughing about it. We won the game hes not a team player so he lost. Just his tactics wow. I don't blame any player that leaves soon as a dagger from stealth hits them after seeing this Mega Nub tactic.
Yeah had this guy today too. I called him out for being lame as well. Its not enough he has the bis gear but he has to abuse broken game mechanics. Hadly his fault as the entire game is one big abuse of ****ty game mechanics and exploits.
I mean where is the challenge being in perfect gear and perma stealth killing people at range.
He was backed up by one or two of his guildmates so surprise i left. It was just dumb.
Yea I don't want to see nerfs to TR's directly but perma stealth sucks big time. If they know what they are doing even when you do find them they go "immune" run away stealth up and then finish you off a little bit later. There are ways to avoid the dmg especially as a CW but if they know what they are doing they will just reset the fight and get you in a better more open spot.
Yea I don't want to see nerfs to TR's directly but perma stealth sucks big time. If they know what they are doing even when you do find them they go "immune" run away stealth up and then finish you off a little bit later. There are ways to avoid the dmg especially as a CW but if they know what they are doing they will just reset the fight and get you in a better more open spot.
And that's exactly what a TR is supposed to do. Any attack a TR makes lifts stealth a little bit, and they can still be hit by AoE's and unless they specced for it, that will diminish stealth too. The problem imo is that only with CoS it doesn't lift stealth and it's mechanics allow for a very high bursting proc rated damage.
I reckon it's better to nerf the uber-gear before wrecking a base class-skill.
So annoying hearing people complain about classes being OP while equipping full rank 9 and 10 enchants...7 greater Tene's? Do you know how much that costs!? Any class that dumps 20 mil AD into their gear and enchants is going to own you...Stop saying a class is OP because the 1 out of 500 person who can afford to gear it to those insane levels keeps dominating you...chances are, you dominate the average common rogue and if you spent just as much on whatever class you play, you'd be OP too...the people who can afford to drop 1000 dollars into their pvp build are a lot of things...but that doesn't mean the class they play is fundamentally OP...People should be crying about enchantments being OP cuz the Rogue class itself is pretty balanced...But I think it's obvious that high level enchantments are the real cash cow/pay to win aspect of this game...
I can't help that your intellect is not capable of seeing the parallels in the analogy. You would not fix the class by removing the ability to attack from stealth. It would completely destroy the class. At least 70% of the class powers deal with the rogue doing something from stealth. So if they just simply removed the ability to fight from stealth a huge majority of the powers would become useless. This means they would have to almost completely redo many of the rogue powers. Not only that but they would need to give the rogue more defense and offensive dmg dealing. But the funny thing is the cry babies like you already caused the rogue to get nerfed in damage. So giving damage back to the rogue would just reveal how silly the complaints are. Why would the rogue need to get some damage ability back? Because a majority of their damage ability comes from fighting from stealth. So in other words it is not a simple fix to just remove the ability to attack from stealth. Or getting rid of the stealth ability all together. It would mean completely redoing the rogue. I highly doubt they would take on that chore just to make whiners like you happy.
You amuse me continue. I like how you make a attempt to say my intellect is off so I can't see your point. So you couldn't possibly be the one making invalid points. /lol Good day sir. good day.
This perma-stealth build is a relatively new thing, and the second you force them out of stealth, they are useless. Their damage is paltry and their survivability is tied completely around the stealth mechanics. A lack of offense and defense means that the entire build is based around remaining in stealth for the entirety of fights. If you take that away, then the entire build is useless. What I don't understand personally, is what is wrong with this build in your eyes. They built themselves in a way where it's very hard to land a hit on them, sure. But all it's useful for is capturing/holding nodes. A proper, damage-based rogue will always be better for the team. If there's a stealth rogue holding a point, then wait until you can outnumber him or go find another point to capture. He's clearly leaving his team at a 4v5 disadvantage, and he's extremely easy to escape from considering his low damage output. I just don't see how this is any different from say, a properly-specced and geared GF. Yes, you can see them, but the result is the same. They hold capture points and are nearly unkillable. Any damage you do to them is insignificant or completely blocked. If you try to get close, you run the risk of being stunned or pushed back.
Really all the stealth-build does is make the rogue a somewhat effective tank. What's wrong with this?
Actually we forced him out of stealth and he was unkillable almost impossible to target. Don't know maybe he has rank 10 movement speed in his utility and fast stamina regen. He was impossible to kill out of stealth. He also was only out of stealth for maybe 5-6 secs. Then back in stealth perma potting back to daggers. Granted this is a insanse situation. Just saying like fighting a ghost. Wasn't possible to target or get to him.
Damage output 15k + with daggers in stealth in 3 secs then restealth his damage was working just fine.
PS. A rogue should never tank... ever. Did I mention EVER!!!!
So annoying hearing people complain about classes being OP while equipping full rank 9 and 10 enchants...7 greater Tene's? Do you know how much that costs!? Any class that dumps 20 mil AD into their gear and enchants is going to own you...Stop saying a class is OP because the 1 out of 500 person who can afford to gear it to those insane levels keeps dominating you...chances are, you dominate the average common rogue and if you spent just as much on whatever class you play, you'd be OP too...the people who can afford to drop 1000 dollars into their pvp build are a lot of things...but that doesn't mean the class they play is fundamentally OP...People should be crying about enchantments being OP cuz the Rogue class itself is pretty balanced...But I think it's obvious that high level enchantments are the real cash cow/pay to win aspect of this game...
I don't know man I mean maybe I'm wrong I don't claim to be a great PvPer or anything. But I thought that balance was supposed to revolve around GvG. In a group a perma invis rogue is a nightmare. I mean look at the effort you have to go through to avoid their dmg and then find them. You suppose their group is doing nothing this entire time? You could choose to kill his group first but the perma invis rogue has probably taken out your cleric or CW by this time and unless your group is way better your gonna lose people as well. But if you assume equal gear and GvG of 2 premades perma invis builds are giving a huge advantage. Even if you do find him and CC him like I said smart perma invis TR will go immune stealth back up and do it again.
However I do agree with you that the enchants are what push things over the top. But I don't see them nerfing something that brings in money.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I just want to let everyone know that I talked to my mom and she said she's going to look into it.
Please, with the Tene nerf and the exec changes rogues are so easy to outplay on all classes. Just shut up before you nerf a class into the ground because you got outplayed. Nerf 1 spec, that is perma, without nerfing the rest? Impossible, and perma has no burst so just put an aoe on your bar and adapt like a real man.
Please stop it! You do realize that not everyone is interested in PvP don't you?
The more you PvP players scream for nerfs here and nerfs there, the more we PvE players suffer. Our characters get ruined because a few players found it too over powered in PvP.
Honestly, I wish they'd just remove PvP from the game altogether. But at the very least, have separate skills for PvP and PvE. Then I don't care what they do to the PvP skills, because my PvE experience won't be effected.
Lol, looks like someone is using it to exploit pve. I hope they nerf it so bad players don't play op classes and call it skills. I've seen so many bad rogues that are even too lazy to get combat advantage and easily top charts.
Comments
AT least they should lower the stacks available for CoS imho .
What he's trying to say, and what you are completely failing to understand, is that ALL classes have cc that completely shut you down. The fact that you are ignoring all other cc and complaining about the TR proves that you just want to keep your cc and deny anyone else the same. You know exactly what he means. You just choose to ignore it...
End of discussion? Watch out everyone! We have an internet tough guy here! The attack can be avoided/defended against. You obviously just can't cope.
Is getting choked from 100-0 op? Why yes it is. Is getting stun locked/knocked down from 100-0 op? Why yes it is. See, everyone can play along....
You mean like choke/stun/kd from 100-0? Or you just advocating a nerf to another class as long as your cc's are left untouched? You are a hypocrite. You want perma stealth/CoS gone? Remove the choke/stun/kd from every other class.
You are.....wow....just.....
The best rogue in FR was Artemis Entreri. He mud stomped every **** person he ran into. Even facerolled Drizzt....twice, killed 4 archmages, 6 weapon masters (Fighters), and was even feared by the Drow. The rogue was never a joke. If you honestly believe that then you have never played with a good one. Btw, Elminster got his *** kicked by a rogue once. And a warrior. Now go back to your hole....
Who's being the hypocrite now? I would have to say there is a bit of difference in the fact that after you dodge the choke/stun/kd you can see your target and fight back. After you dodge 2 or 3 CoS attacks, oh that's right there's 9 or 10+ more coming from a target you can't see. I've said it before in another post and I'll say it again here. Anyone defending this build either is a troll, hasn't experienced how overpowered it is when done correctly, or is just plain ignorant. My guess is you fall under the ignorant category and you obviously just can't cope.
My lvl 50 GWF is way easier to play and can typicaly sustain most barrages add a cleric to back me up and the TR better go find a solo TR or CW that aint looking. The TR has become an easy target hell a CW doesn't even try to avoid a TR anymore. Used to be a CW would CC warp nuke constantly on the move now they just burn us down oh yeah us TR's are over powered. Oh a tank w/ no dmg hmm wait hold block ok kd hit daily block haha can't hit me.
Honestly I think the TR has more room to ***** than the other classes a TR with just regular gear or full PvP gear maybe some rare pieces **** sure can't take the hits. At lvl 60 on my TR just this morning I had a CW grab me throw me in the air kill me. I snuck up on the same CW got the drop and hate to say it he still killed me. Later i eventually was able to kill him once after i changed my abilities and combo.
Other TR's have schooled me and some can't handle me. PvP has alot has to do with the other people on your team not just abilities and gear.
The this is a PVE game screw PvP Ha this is a money game like anything else and they know that people want the competetion from the PvP as well as PvE. Games now days don't make it w/o catering to both.
Now my thought is this. If you want to go to this extreme and be that lame go ahead. I will just find someone else who wants to fight. Kudo's though for being the lamest rogue I ever met. It was extra impressive. I mean our whole team was laughing about it. We won the game hes not a team player so he lost. Just his tactics wow. I don't blame any player that leaves soon as a dagger from stealth hits them after seeing this Mega Nub tactic.
If you won and you think his strategy is so bad, why are you crying, oh sorry excuse me, complaining about it then?
Did you read what I just said ? Its extremely OP and infuriating to the point I don't want to even try to attack you. Most likely ill just leave the game if I see him again. Cause I want to PvP not rage from this. It has nothing about being good either. It has to be about some guy living up being the lamest to a fullest so he can have his fun just count me and anyone else out. Most players will leave immediately and I don't blame them. I managed to hang in there for 30 sec early on and said yup I am done with you. /nub. Yes OP lame tactics get the /nub mark. So yes it needs to be fixed. I am just painting the extreme scenario and have hopes to never see it again.
What I do now is I take all the pots I can at full life so no one get them. I rather PvP then have ppl run to there crutch. I hope they get removed the map is too small. Or at least just have 2 healing pots away from basses. I much rather see pots that had buffs then healing. A rush to get a buff before the fighting. Then awesome PvP. That's what I play for.
So what you are really saying is you want the rogue to be out of stealth and stand in front of you and let you pummel them until they die, rinse and repeat. How about we take out running? Just let the rogues all teleport magically in front of you and not let them attack back either?
Would you say this same thing to a snipper in combat? That since he is taking a high ground hundreds of yards away from his actual target that he is not playing fair? That he should take his sniper riffle and get right in there toe to toe with the riffle men?
The rogue uses that tactic of hit and run because standing in front of you out of stealth is a sure death sentence but you aren't happy with that because you don't get to kill him.
Like I said before, none of the other classes will be happy until Rogue is nerfed into uselessness. I've seen it before in other games where the stealth class was flamed and cry babies wouldn't stop until they removed stealth ability rendering the class useless. If anyone played martial heroes knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Lol of course I don't want this. I love PvP. Player vs Player. I don't want it to be easy. I want it to be viable though. Can't kill a ghost and its not a fight if you can't actually see or ever hit your target since there always using pots from stealth and have no idea where they are most of the time. Makes it a lil hard to even target them.
Next a sniper in combat. Your analogies are completely terrible. If a sniper reveals himself in combat and his location he shouldn't be unkillable he should be vunerable since he revealed his location. The price you pay for being a sniper. This rogue would hit all target on mounts nuke. kite reveal his location only to not be targeted. It wasn't possible to target him. He was able to pot in perma stealth and it wasn't even fighting. I just want the fact that hey I know there is a rogue there and now we have to kill it. Not that hey I know there is a rogue there but I can't do anything about it cause of its perma healing tactics.
Hit and run is fine. Hit and not be able to be hit is broken.
Rogue doesn't have to be nerfed to uselessness just needs to not be unkillable with these tactics and use a complete broken method of fighting that is basically impossible to beat unless you are fighting it 5v1 which doesn't seem fair it takes a whole team to corner, take all the health pots so he can't perma stealth pot anymore and cc him into a corner for the kill.
Hope this makes better senses use some real better analogies. I like a good fight. Key word is GOOD. If I can't target something and it always has full health that takes GOOD out of the equation. I would like to see health pots removed that would break this tactic without even touching the rogue. I am open to all options just saying it has to be fixed.
This perma-stealth build is a relatively new thing, and the second you force them out of stealth, they are useless. Their damage is paltry and their survivability is tied completely around the stealth mechanics. A lack of offense and defense means that the entire build is based around remaining in stealth for the entirety of fights. If you take that away, then the entire build is useless. What I don't understand personally, is what is wrong with this build in your eyes. They built themselves in a way where it's very hard to land a hit on them, sure. But all it's useful for is capturing/holding nodes. A proper, damage-based rogue will always be better for the team. If there's a stealth rogue holding a point, then wait until you can outnumber him or go find another point to capture. He's clearly leaving his team at a 4v5 disadvantage, and he's extremely easy to escape from considering his low damage output. I just don't see how this is any different from say, a properly-specced and geared GF. Yes, you can see them, but the result is the same. They hold capture points and are nearly unkillable. Any damage you do to them is insignificant or completely blocked. If you try to get close, you run the risk of being stunned or pushed back.
Really all the stealth-build does is make the rogue a somewhat effective tank. What's wrong with this?
I can't help that your intellect is not capable of seeing the parallels in the analogy. You would not fix the class by removing the ability to attack from stealth. It would completely destroy the class. At least 70% of the class powers deal with the rogue doing something from stealth. So if they just simply removed the ability to fight from stealth a huge majority of the powers would become useless. This means they would have to almost completely redo many of the rogue powers. Not only that but they would need to give the rogue more defense and offensive dmg dealing. But the funny thing is the cry babies like you already caused the rogue to get nerfed in damage. So giving damage back to the rogue would just reveal how silly the complaints are. Why would the rogue need to get some damage ability back? Because a majority of their damage ability comes from fighting from stealth. So in other words it is not a simple fix to just remove the ability to attack from stealth. Or getting rid of the stealth ability all together. It would mean completely redoing the rogue. I highly doubt they would take on that chore just to make whiners like you happy.
EDIT - Talking post Ghost King Cadderly here. :cool:
Yeah had this guy today too. I called him out for being lame as well. Its not enough he has the bis gear but he has to abuse broken game mechanics. Hadly his fault as the entire game is one big abuse of ****ty game mechanics and exploits.
I mean where is the challenge being in perfect gear and perma stealth killing people at range.
He was backed up by one or two of his guildmates so surprise i left. It was just dumb.
Cleric is now oven-baked and done.
Just saying.
And that's exactly what a TR is supposed to do. Any attack a TR makes lifts stealth a little bit, and they can still be hit by AoE's and unless they specced for it, that will diminish stealth too. The problem imo is that only with CoS it doesn't lift stealth and it's mechanics allow for a very high bursting proc rated damage.
I reckon it's better to nerf the uber-gear before wrecking a base class-skill.
You amuse me continue. I like how you make a attempt to say my intellect is off so I can't see your point. So you couldn't possibly be the one making invalid points. /lol Good day sir. good day.
Actually we forced him out of stealth and he was unkillable almost impossible to target. Don't know maybe he has rank 10 movement speed in his utility and fast stamina regen. He was impossible to kill out of stealth. He also was only out of stealth for maybe 5-6 secs. Then back in stealth perma potting back to daggers. Granted this is a insanse situation. Just saying like fighting a ghost. Wasn't possible to target or get to him.
Damage output 15k + with daggers in stealth in 3 secs then restealth his damage was working just fine.
PS. A rogue should never tank... ever. Did I mention EVER!!!!
I don't know man I mean maybe I'm wrong I don't claim to be a great PvPer or anything. But I thought that balance was supposed to revolve around GvG. In a group a perma invis rogue is a nightmare. I mean look at the effort you have to go through to avoid their dmg and then find them. You suppose their group is doing nothing this entire time? You could choose to kill his group first but the perma invis rogue has probably taken out your cleric or CW by this time and unless your group is way better your gonna lose people as well. But if you assume equal gear and GvG of 2 premades perma invis builds are giving a huge advantage. Even if you do find him and CC him like I said smart perma invis TR will go immune stealth back up and do it again.
However I do agree with you that the enchants are what push things over the top. But I don't see them nerfing something that brings in money.
Lol, looks like someone is using it to exploit pve. I hope they nerf it so bad players don't play op classes and call it skills. I've seen so many bad rogues that are even too lazy to get combat advantage and easily top charts.