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So, after the patch, what build is looking best? Thaum, Opp, or still Renegade?
dominemesis
Member Posts: 269 Arc User
Title pretty much says it, anyone done any theorycrafting on which will be tops after the nerfs? Thanks.
The Inn of the Lucky Dragonfly - NW-DFIM545CN
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But with new Chill options, Oppressor looks good too.
i think all are somewhat good, depends what kind of wizard you want, thaum is good if you plan to use conduit as a damage debuff. Id say thaum and renegade are equal if you want to maximise your damage, also depends on your stats, high crit? got shadow weaver? renegade and thaum fit, (conduit for proc and renegade for combat advantage).
Still, dont go too crazy over maximising damage, our damage isnt that great. Also dont listen to those who say we do more damage than rogues and such. damage from shield and other knockbacks/sing dont count, as you are CCing not trying to kill them with damage.
Test your damage vs a rogue on a single target (boss) and you will see the big difference. So choose hte spec that will benefit you the most!
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Renegade is probably still better single target, but nothing is ever single target.
I am guessing he meant the Thaum guy who wrote the guide because he got alot of flack from Renegades I suppose. When you say he is good but a little inaccurate, can you elaborate? Thanks.
What corrections do you see fit? What is your current build?
The nerfs to Renegade make it less impressive in PvP to me than it was. RoE and Steal Time have lost a little luster, though still great PvP skills. Just not sure the reduced buff to those skills is worth the loss of damage mitigation/damage buff to Chill Strike possible in the Thaumaturge tree.
No numbers crunched, just my opinion, but I'm sticking with Thaum after trying Oppressor (which still blows hard) and Renegade. No comparison for me.
EDIT: In B4 "I always beat rogues" and "GF's don't do good AoE DPS".
current: renegade
i feel no big different at all. its just that oppressor somehow is being rejected at PVE, because they prefer a pushing wizard, rather than chills.
Because no spec makes a bit of difference in pushing stuff off ledges then that doesn't factor in. Also consider that in the new Gauntlgrym content there are pvp and pve elements that likely won't involve pushing, at least not in PVP for sure. You also haven't considered CW's running foundry or anything else in which their dps will matter. So the question stands for all those situations, including t2 content that isn't all pushing (some epic dungeons don't boil down to just that).
PvP still doesn't matter. You can still, RoE/Entangle/chill strike/ice knife and kill someone before they move, regardless of what you spec. You will still be used for Singularity spam in Gaunt. You're not there for DPS, 3 other classes do that better than you do when they are top geared and are good at their class. You're there for "control" and that's it. You can blame Cryptic for giving us second rate DPS and 1 spell that's 100% needed in all end game content.
How much of a difference is your spec really going to matter when you run a foundry? (Do people actually run them other than for the daily...lol) Probably save you a few min max I'm guessing. Though I personally don't know one single person who is doing end game content who has ever said "Man, wish I was specced different so I could do this foundry faster".
I'm trying to tell you that there are 3 other classes that can do more DPS than you do no matter how you spec and min/max. You're there for control and to help the better DPS whittle down trash that you can't push off ledges, that's it.
The only class which can beat a CW in terms of DPS is a TR. I'm talking about single target DPS.
It may have been changed now with RoE nerf and pure 15% dps loss while in melee range, but rogues were also nerfed, RoE affected them too and other classes never came even remotely close in dps to those two.
True sir, but how many times are you really going nuts deep into a single target boss fight? Frozen heart if your cleric is good enough, but most of the time you are on archer duty. Spider and DV are probably the only ones where you're not having to sing spam and CC/knock off.
The only bosses I don't go full dps on the boss are Dread Vault and CN last bosses, maybe spider, too, but I just CC and go straight back to dps, staying in melee range with the boss. On all the rest it's basically "nuke boss" "strategy".
Nuke boss used to work when you had double AS and had no fear of death from a ton of mobs. It doesn't work like that anymore unless you and all your party severely out gear the dungeon.
I'll check this out soon tho we've been running 1 cleric group anyway.
LOL, are you hopping from one thread to the next to say the same thing?
Anyways, I have no problem with pumping Singularities, no problem with knocking mobs off ledges, no problem with debuffing and controlling mobs, no problem clearing CN and Dread Vault, and still manage to have more damage than any GWF/GF and a lot of TRs I ran with. One GF is constantly within 5% more or less than myself, but he's got BIS in every slot, where I have a measily 10.3k GS, rank 5 enchants, and lesser weapon enchants.
I agree with you that our TOP priority is controlling adds. But I don't know why a few people every once in a while come on here and make it seem like any CW that also tries to maximize their damage (as a secondary role), is an idiot.
fact that you get 100% kill credit for knocking mobs off a ledge, and thus grossly
inflating damage numbers.
Simple test. Go to CN, and pull the first pack of skeletons off the bridge.
Ohes noes! Saying similar stuff in 2 threads, how rude of me! I'd comment on your CN damage, but Archomental already did that for me.
Trying to maximize your DPS is fine, it's a personal goal for some people to fully maximize their toons potential in every way. I'm just saying, that it's not needed and you're not being brought along in any dungeon for your DPS.
I can't even count how many times I have had to pick up the other CW's slack in PUGS, because all he wants to do is DPS and can't even chain Singularity or doesn't slot shield for the knock back and AP gen. Some people just can't handle or grasp the concept that we aren't a real DPS class and we have 1 boring role in PvE. Cryptics design for this class is horrible and I hope that later on, this class will be used for more than just Singularity spam and knock backs.
Totally agree with you man, we are CONTROL wizards, ie we tick off mobs by CONTROLLING them and keeping them off of the DPS and cleric and maybe even tank. Yes we CAN dps, but our main focus should be crowd CONTROL since we are after all CONTROL wizards...
In D&D terms, a control wizard is like an enchantment/conjuration wizard and people in this game are trying to play them as an evocation sorcerer. It's absurd.
OK if you want to have threads about how a CW needs to focus dungeon strategy on control, I am all for it, but what are you accomplishing by derailing this one which is asking about optimizing our feats, particularly after the patch? Since there are situations in the game in which we need to deal damage and fight mobs not just push them, and we have feat trees that don't much affect our ability to push stuff either way, just power choices, what is the problem with optimizing those feat trees? You are railing against some straw man that only you brought up. Our purpose in dungeons is control, we all get it, and no one denied it. But we can also optimize other aspects of what we do, and very likely should, for all the situations in which pushing isn't an option. Your argument really contributes nothing to this thread and is just off topic and derailing it at this point.
So why Great Weapon Fighters are the way they are? They're not GREAT at all, or their weapon is not very GREAT, they should be GREAT, it's defined by their class name!
Why some trickster rogue kills me? He's a TRICKSTER rogue, he should perform TRICKS, not kill me or do DPS.
Guardian fighter should guard me, he's a GUARDIAN fighter, why is he charging others in PvP? He should GUARD me, not kill others, he's a GUARDIAN fighter.
Devoted Cleric should be DEVOTED to me, he's a DEVOTED cleric, why do they leave after each PvP run and dungeon match? They should stick to me and run around - they're DEVOTED clerics afterall. Clerics we have ingame now don't seem to be very DEVOTED.
I derailed nothing. In my first post, I stated that it didn't really matter what spec or tree you go down. The differences you make in a group, solely depends on your ability to control MOBS. Not how much damage you are doing over the pure DPS classes. No one brings you along to DPS, they bring you to control, push and cast "black hole" over and over. As long as you can do that, your DPS can be below the clerics and everyone is still happy.
So in the current form of the game, there is no "Best Spec" because nothing you can choose, from any of the trees, really affects your role in a group setting. The only exception is how broken all the feats are in the Oppressor tree.
Just because you happen to not share my same views, doesn't mean you should try and claim I'm derailing or not contributing to the topic.
- To the CW, no one cares about your dps. You're just here to throw adds off the ledges (and pray that no one disconnects and have to deal with respawns). And you're just here for singularities too as well.
- To the TR, no one cares about your dps on trash and your AoE skills. In fact you can just go AFK and we'll buzz you when it is time to kill a boss. You're just here to burn down a boss with your bleeds. No bleeds? oh then we definitely don't care about your dps.
- To the DC, no one cares about your heals. No one cares about your dps either. You just need to press 2 buttons to put down Astral Shield. Nothing else you do really matters.
- To the GF, no one cares about your AoE dps, no one cares about your single target dps. You're just here for one purpose only, and that is to draw aggro.
- To the GWF, well no one really cares about your Single target dps, no one cares about AoE dps, because we can have a CW do that just as well......oh wait a second, nevermind you can stay, since we told the CW and everyone else that no one cared about their DPS. Hec We need someone to DPS!!
Sure if you are a CW and are running with super uber geared/enchanted/specced/skilled players, you probably dont need to do anything else besides Singularities. But the remaining 95% of the player base do not fall into that perfect scenario where all the moons are aligned, and most of them are pugging T2s. So a CW who isn't pulling his weight with adequate dps, is in fact dragging your average geared/specced/skilled party. And this forum IS for your average player, not the 5% "Elites".