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Astral Shield nerf and PVP
diazzepam
Member Posts: 3 Arc User
Why is people saying: "this may work for pvp but not for pve"??
I think the other way around, for pve people is just not considering the fact that tanks will now be able to fulfill their role and a tank for sure can take 5 seconds out of a blue shield, and yes i have finished CN and yes i do think the fight is still doable with 33% downtime on AS.
On the other hand on pvp, i dont see how this can work unless a Crowd Control (CC) diminishing returns are added to the game. Simply said if when playing against a coordinated team if the cleric is CCed before he can cast the astral shield then the cleric will be dead before he can use 1 single ability, and i am not saying you die before the effect of the first CC wears off, i am saying a coordinated team will keep you CCed for a long time using several abilities and youw ill not be able to do ****. Right now having AS up 100% of the time was the only way to survive that and even then a lot of times you died anyway. Yes 100% AS up time is overpowerd vs not coordinated teams but as it is now on a competitive level a very high dps team with no heal will have advantage against a team with a healer.
Before people say it, i am ware that team mechanics can be modified and a cleric can have a body guard to knockdown or CC attackers and let the healer live but even doing that i in my view a dps team will have the advantage.
I think the other way around, for pve people is just not considering the fact that tanks will now be able to fulfill their role and a tank for sure can take 5 seconds out of a blue shield, and yes i have finished CN and yes i do think the fight is still doable with 33% downtime on AS.
On the other hand on pvp, i dont see how this can work unless a Crowd Control (CC) diminishing returns are added to the game. Simply said if when playing against a coordinated team if the cleric is CCed before he can cast the astral shield then the cleric will be dead before he can use 1 single ability, and i am not saying you die before the effect of the first CC wears off, i am saying a coordinated team will keep you CCed for a long time using several abilities and youw ill not be able to do ****. Right now having AS up 100% of the time was the only way to survive that and even then a lot of times you died anyway. Yes 100% AS up time is overpowerd vs not coordinated teams but as it is now on a competitive level a very high dps team with no heal will have advantage against a team with a healer.
Before people say it, i am ware that team mechanics can be modified and a cleric can have a body guard to knockdown or CC attackers and let the healer live but even doing that i in my view a dps team will have the advantage.
Post edited by diazzepam on
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Having two or three clerics in a party pretty much meant we were invincible till now with 100% uptime and stacking of AS. Right now we clerics are pretty much unkillable, especially if there's two of us together.
This nerf gives players a chance at killing us.
HOWEVER
PVE is a completely different story and I'm sad about this.
1 Astral shield: 2 hit kill the cleric even in AS
2 Astral shields: 3-4 hit kill the cleric or knock them out of AS.
3 Astral shields? Knock them out again.....
Clerics don't do much damage, so there's plenty of time and opportunity to knock them out and kill and still make it away alive, and the more Astral shields, means more clerics. More clerics means less dps in the team.
Cleric's weren't great in pvp to begin with, and now they're downright rubbish.
1. GF will knock you out of AS and keep you out and incapacitated while clobbering you to death
2. CW + TR combine to kill each cleric one by one and no matter how many AS are down you will die almost instantly
3. God mode is only for the non-clerics in AS. If you will the cleric you kill the AS yet how many times does the team keep trying to kill the GF standing in the double AS? He ain't dying.
4. Most importantly you don't have enough damage to kill anyone AND control 2 points. The opposing team simply dominates the other 2 points and then rushes the 3 cleric team and hangs around until someone attempts to take one of their points.
As for 2xAS I cannot tell how many times I have been 2-shot standing on 2xAS with HG down and a pot ticking.
The bottom line is that AS is only OP vs undergeared/weak players. With the game in that state is it now if a team has access to the best gear just bing CW, GFs and maybe TRs. And speaking GFs ... tell me which OP pvp class did not get a nerf?
At the end of the day what stops a DC dying is his team controlling the opposition.
What clerics needed:
1. AS need stacking removed simply because of PvE concerns, this is trivial in PvP which sucks since despite this it is still out best heal
2. For pvp clerics need a single-target clutch heal for themselves and give it a 30s cd
3. Cc in this game last too long to not have significant dr
4. What really boggles my mind is that burst damage has have burst healing as a counter and yet the developers are seemingly unable to understand this simple concept. If dps classes massive burst comes from dailies then why not give clerics a massive healing daily?
Personally I haven't given up on the class yet but people coming onto the forum and complaining about the state of the game for undergeared folk is pointless. Foir pvp the only way you can attempt to balance classes is by having ladders and seeing 1) which classes are under-represented and 2) getting feedback from people who know what they are talking about.
PVP you will get killed 100 percent of the time no matter how many clerics or what your gear score is. I'm currently at 1150, and feel like I finally have a chance when a rogue does his big nasty on me. I can survive if I'm in my shield, and turn around and make it a fair fight. I lose more than I win, but I can actually pull out some victories. Now they will just have easy mode instakills again, because I won't be able to keep a shield down nonstop, so they will just wait and crush me like a soda pop can as soon as I'm not in shield.
I really enjoyed pvp in this game, but I can't see how I'm anything but the lowest scoring person with the least utility in PVP after this patch. Even AS really didn't do a great job of healing the massive amount of damage that players are able to inflict on each other, so you had to use forgemasters. Surviveability was our one saving grace.
For all of those people apologizing for this game what exactly is the role of clerics in PVP now? You won't survive more than 10 seconds ever on a point now, and your heals aren't enough to keep you up or your party. You are now dead weight in pvp. I read these patch notes yesterday and decided I'm done personally. I'm wondering if I can get anything out of my DC on ebay after the game goes live. Hopefully someone will pay something for it to do some pve, because in pvp it will have 0 surviveability, worst damage by FAR, poor crowd control (the push really isn't that annoying), and poor debuffing.
Weapon dmg increaes way to fast at Lv60 (e.g. as cleric 426-521 green vs. 671-820 ancient) while the defense got pretty hard DR and the HP at Lv60 hardly increases. This and some weapon enchantments and tenebrous offense enchantment are causing are huge unbalance. When PvP-ing in the lower lvls, esp in the Lv50-59 range, it seemed far more balanced in general. Just a personal though.
But talking about DC dmg - it isn't that bad at all. Not the spike dmg of other classes, but still not that bad. Played a few times with 3x DoT (Brand of the Sun, Forgemaster's Flame, Break the Spirit) - often your enemies realize far to late that they are already about to die. Hammer of Fate does some nice dmg as well, if it crits it can even be a 1shot or at least almost for ppl with lower Def. Don't like those pure Healer roles in PvP at all, maybe that's why I'm playing that way.
Clerics in PVP will be thought of the same way as GWF's were in pve before this patch. For the new expansion groups will have to seriously limit the amount of clerics to the bare minimum they need to do the PVE content so that they can win the PVP content to get there.
I think a bit more time is needed to see. There are alot of other changes going in including the CW and TR damage nerfs. Many of the people making the doom & gloom comments are people who have not even tried the changes on the preview server.
One of the biggest things though that needs to happen is they need to put diminishing returns on all the CC abilities. It took Warhammer like 4 years to figure this out. WoW maybe longer. It is not fun especially when you have more TR's playing this game then prolly all the rest the classes combined...to get ability locked back to back when you have a couple TR's working together.
There needs to be a 5 sec cooldown buff that prevents being CC'd back to back. That will go along ways to solving numerous PvP issues.
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However, a decent team would just focus on one cleric first, then the other, then take the point and kill everyone else. If the Cleric's team wasn't good, they'd just fight over that one point the entire match. They'd probably never actually lose it, but they'd lose the game.
DC's solo just... they suck. Everything they do, another class can do better, with the exception of Healing. Which every single class, except for DC, can out-DPS.
They're also the only class without a decent "Stun" ability, the closest they have is Chains of Blazing Light which only restricts movement. Divine Break the Spirit has a small stun effect, but it can't particularly be relied upon since it needs Divinity to fuel it, isn't long, and can't be chained.
Guardian Fighters and Great Weapon Fighters can basically Prone-lock you to death, Control Wizards are spoiled for choice if they want to Control you to death, and Trickster Rogues just Daze you to death.
And now that getting event assists is harder, I doubt I'll use Astral Shield on my DC. I think I'll focus on DoT effects, so I can snipe kills off the low HP people that run off to heal.
Will never be playing more than 4 matches a day however, it's just no fun to PvP as a Cleric.
You haven't seen a cleric with 7 greater tenebrous then
Dragon Guild
Potions do a better job at healing than a cleric does. Better burst, more reliable when you need it, less constrictive (my potion bar isn't kiting 20 things/ players all across a map and can be utilized anywhere ((not just in a blue circle))) and I'm guessing after the adjustments, self heals on abilities will heal better (burst-wise) than a cleric can so yea...all of our encounters need a complete rework/adjustment. Too many of our abilities feel like they are at half power (bastion, HW for example). Our main role isn't a healer, its a heal over time piece of iron with mitigating circles that can do decent damage if fully specced; too bad other classes dont just do damage over time, it may be manageable. I refuse to pvp as a cleric as is, glad my new pve content has pvp so I can /wrists over that too. I should just find a different game but I love the d&d universe. It's really quite frustrating....such a love hate relationship that I have with NW atm.
Edit: my main beef isn't against the AS nerf. That is fine. My main beef is that anything that is worth slotting as an encounter heals over time (including my daily) Nothing will burst heal.
It's....... all ........just.......... slow......... gain........ omg....... please......... just......... heal......... to......... full........... already........... zzzzzzzzz.................... timeout........See..........quite..............annoying.........when........people........use............words............. over................ time.............. eh?
exactly
^
So true. I'll be surprised if many DCs even make it to 60 after patch.
Not every people are bug exploiters with billions AD.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )