They would have to fix the broken queuing system before doing this, who wouldn't leave a group that doesn't have any clerics or 3 GWF's.
Just ran a GF/GWF/3CW in Cloak of towers. Granted its low level content, but it is doable with only two people face planting. Not like the rest of the other dungeons that just summon hordes of mini bosses, this was mostly normal minions with more hitpoints.
As for the rest of the post, if someone leaves the penalty should apply to the whole group: Instant disbandment, kick from zone, 15 minute wait FOR EVERYONE ONE. Still cannot understand, why you feel entitled to having your vengeance against someone. Sorry, but a PUG is a PUG and that is shorthand for RANDOM. Random people, random play styles, random time schedules, random temperaments. The main problem is the fact that you have one big fat flaw...YOU LACK THE SOCIAL ABILITY TO MAKE FRIENDS! Yes, that is why you demand a penalty with a vengeance, because someone bailed on you and you have this little psychotic voice in your head kill them! because your fun was ruined and you felt betrayed...but you didn't stop to think, if someone leaves could it not be your fault they left? Nope, its always the other person isn't it. How about, if someone choses to leave they give up their right to the reward at the end...oh wait, that was a penalty right there...they give up and stuck back in the que, on wait there is ye another penalty.
FFS, you are the problem not the other person. So long as they just walk out, they give up and get nothing...but you want to give them more problems. Try this...make friends and bring guild mates, otherwise you are stuck with a random gaggle of individuals with differing personalities and have to deal with it...either you leave or they leave, but someone will leave without the prize and there should be no reason to punish them because of it (Really, if you walk out on something how the hell do you win from that particular engagement/moment in time - OMG! I JUST WON THE LOTTERY! *tosses claim ticket in trash* Yep, still a winner. <-- logically, that doesn't make sense because you give up the right to the prize.)
The only thing that is actually effective in cases like this is to have something that you previously gained taken away. If they want to act like children treat them that way I say.
if anyone leaves before instance is completed. (not counting DC's unless they DC and do not return before game thinks they left for good)
1st to leave: 60 min cool-down on any related instance.
2nd to leave: 30 min cool-down on any related instance.
3rd to leave: 15 min cool-down on any related instance.
4th to leave: 5 min cool-down on any related instance.
5th to leave: 0 min cool-down on any related instance.
______
-The first 5mins you zone into pvp or dungeon, you can leave without penalty.
-Leaving after 5mins = 30mins debuff making you unable to queue. (30mins is enough time to deal with life's real emergencies)
-Each time you complete a pvp or dungeon = Get a stackable buff (maybe 5x) which increases your Glory gained or you chance at getting a sweet T1/T2 reward loot bag at the end of the next dungeon.
-The first 5mins you zone into pvp or dungeon, you can leave without penalty.
-Leaving after 5mins = 30mins debuff making you unable to queue. (30mins is enough time to deal with life's real emergencies)
-Each time you complete a pvp or dungeon = Get a stackable buff (maybe 5x) which increases your Glory gained or you chance at getting a sweet T1/T2 reward loot bag at the end of the next dungeon.
Tell me this solution isn't awesome.
Except you forgot that you can wait 30+ minutes to get into a dungeon, even while que and I spent on/off like 5 one day trying to get one for a dungeon. Great suggestion, that will certainly speed up the problem :rolleyes:
Infact, forgot to add a something
- If no friends or guild mates of your own, you are auto banned for one week from game after disconnecting while you learn social skills.
Except, the best part of your entire suggestion is the last part would solve the entire problem without adding punishment. The more you participate, the great the reward...less participation no locking of your time having fun cause you are earning less reward. Simple put, you run 5 dungeons your 6th gives great rewards but if you leave 2 of 5, you get less...WITH OUT PUNISHING THEM FOR YOUR FAILURE TO BE A BETTER TEAM MATE! See, works without impacting someone else's life just because you 1) Lack social skills to make friends 2) Get butt hurt and take games way to seriously. If someone leaves, they are impacting their own game time.
Recap: You can have greater rewards, without having punishments. Want punishments, then sure as hell better apply to everyone and be nut crushing painful...Gauntlgrym is already making me hope that if you die you are locked from the dungeon, even if you win the PVP match you better be that good to not die and hope your team mates keep you alive. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor game mechanics already make me want to leave a lot of dungeons and no, skills to dodge has nothing to do with my ability to not get instan-face plant : 1) A lot of boss type monsters, that are not boss type 2) Max cap around 20-22k hitpoints for our non-tanks 3) Said boss type monsters with 2-4k damage hits and lots of monsters that seem to chain their attacks so if you dodge one and run back...another is charging up again meaning more dodging, by the third dodge you have done <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> melee damage and about to get face planted by minion NPC lighting up the floor and turning it red. (Recap this last sentece: To many NPC seem to fire off to many attacks and cover the floor red, no matter how often or where you dodge...boring mechanic, like dodge ball with heavy wrecking ball).
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maisaanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 166
edited June 2013
Make it possible for people to join a party already in a dungeon/instance.
No party leader and everyone can be replaced. Kick requires 3 people in the party to accept.
That way it doesn't really matter if you leave or get dc'ed,you can be replaced.
From the other side of the fence, I hate it when I suddenly get dropped/kicked from a PvP match after a few minutes. Am I supposed to get a system message that I was kicked? I don't see anything so I have no idea if I was kicked or I was dropped from the match. Supposed "leavers" might have actually been kicked/dropped.
People should be penalized for leaving... really, that's the best way to go about things? Let me counter propose an idea that would blow your mind.
If a 5 man group is mid dungeon and one person leaves, why not have the Que just pull the next available person to replace the now open spot. Even better, allow the party leader an option to designate what type of role needs to be filled before submiting a request to the Que, which would then look for the next possible canidate.
You know what, **** it. My idea is too constructive. Let's just pull out the torchs and pitchforks, its far easier to come up with deconstructive ideas.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
If a 5 man group is mid dungeon and one person leaves, why not have the Que just pull the next available person to replace the now open spot. Even better, allow the party leader an option to designate what type of role needs to be filled before submiting a request to the Que, which would then look for the next possible canidate.
This is how it worked during the Closed Beta Tests.
Problem is people would leave right before the boss and people would get stuck joining a dungeon just to kill the last boss. The forums were actually pretty filled with complaints about skipping the entire dungeon because they joined a party which was already in progress.
The other issue is the PvP match is halfway over. A person leaves because they're on the losing side and you queue in expecting there to be a new game - No! You queued in to find the team is behind by 1/4. How would you feel?
Allowing people to join at the end should be an option in case, like many dungeons, the trek to the end results in a leaver at the boss' gate before the first attempt but it shouldn't be automatic and likely shouldn't be added in PvP at all.
The priority is to get people to stay.
Like I said before though the system should be forgiving. When you look at League of Legends the system takes into consideration whether the leave is standard behavior or a rare occurrence. For argument's sake you should be able to leave at least a week without repercussions. DC's and Emergencies happen and that has to be understood and forgiven.
But at this time we have, especially in PvP, large amounts of players who simply leave if they are on the losing team. That behavior needs to be squashed and rewarding them for staying isn't an answer. When you're playing in PvP systems you play to win or lose. Doesn't matter which and simply deserting the team isn't an option.
You play, you get your reward, albeit smaller than not winning. You leave and you get court martialed.
Rewards for staying and doing what you agreed to do to begin with isn't enough.
They would have to fix the broken queuing system before doing this, who wouldn't leave a group that doesn't have any clerics or 3 GWF's.
This. I would be the first one to support a penalty and I'd like to see much longer than one hour. However, the queue system is broken. The system needs to be fixed first before even considering anything else. It needs to NEVER form a group for a dungeon without a cleric and, preferably a CW. The other 3 (current) classes can fill the gaps in most dungeons in any variety.
This is how it worked during the Closed Beta Tests.
Problem is people would leave right before the boss and people would get stuck joining a dungeon just to kill the last boss. The forums were actually pretty filled with complaints about skipping the entire dungeon because they joined a party which was already in progress.
Better that than have 4 people inconvenienced after spending 45 minutes in a Dungeon only to have someone quit right at the final boss during Delves and not be able to complete.
I think this is a non-issue. In the first place, PUGs rarely ever get things done in any satisfactory manner. If you're having difficulties, just join a guild instead of trying to police human behaviors. Sometimes you run into groups so gosh darn awful it's really obvious you're just going nowhere with them. I don't think I should get slapped in the face for choosing the spend my time more efficiently instead of running with a group of people whose language I don't speak, doesn't follow directions and doesn't act like a team in any way shape or form. This applies to both PvE and PvP btw.
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nimbuslokiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited June 2013
I leave PVP if my team sux, every time ... why would I want to spend 20 minutes playing with terribles when I can leave reque and have the chance to play with some decent players, if people don't have enchanted gear they are wanting to be carried .. i will leave ... It's a good system I think, if you are losing and your team leaves, great you can leave too or not have to play so long in a lost game because its not being contested ... both good.
In a penalty system you punish good players by forcing them to spend time with bad players for no reason ... they need to either bracket PVP so you play with players of your skill level only (people who go 30+ and 0 most games should not be grouped with people who get less then 10 kills a game) ... or keep it the way it is so good players can leave if they get a bad team (no enchants is a big one).
I agree and support the community need for a leaver penalty. STO has this and thus I know it can be implemented easily in Neverwinter as well.
Also - I noticed in the notes posted about an upcoming patch that they "lowered" the rewards for LOSING PvP . . . why reward failure at all? Do like they do in other MMO games . . . win or try again.
I agree and support the community need for a leaver penalty. STO has this and thus I know it can be implemented easily in Neverwinter as well.
Also - I noticed in the notes posted about an upcoming patch that they "lowered" the rewards for LOSING PvP . . . why reward failure at all? Do like they do in other MMO games . . . win or try again.
Problem with that is that the queue system puts premades with Pugs. A pug will never beat a premade. People should still be able to PVP without spending a million dollars on gear and enchants and having to join a PVP Guild.
A possible problem is that if there are penalties for leaving, players may simply go afk (or stop fighting/healing) and wait to get kicked. If kicking inflicts the same penalties, then that would open another can of worms.
I have a story about that.
I was with a few friends in a heroic dungeon once, and one of the guys we got from the queue wanted to skip bosses and just go straight to the end boss to get daily quest credit for completing the dungeon as quickly as possible. We told him we were doing all bosses, because we wanted all the loot tokens from them. He told us he wasn't doing all the bosses, then told us to vote-kick him from the group so he wouldn't get the leaver penalty. We told him we weren't going to kick him from the group, and that if he wanted to leave he should just leave. He refused to leave of his own accord, because he did not want to get the leaver penalty, and since we refused to kick him to circumvent the leaver penalty, he told us that he was just going to stand there at the entrance and go AFK so that he would still get credit after we finished the dungeon.
We proceeded to 4-man the place without his help (since he was not a critical component of the group, i.e. tank or healer), kill all of the bosses to get all of our loot tokens just like we said we were going to, and then right before we engaged the last boss, we vote-kicked him from the group so he wouldn't get credit for completing the dungeon, he still spent all that time clearing the dungeon whether he was helping us or not, and it cost him *more* time than if he had just left in the first place and ate the penalty like he was supposed to.
We cleared the dungeon, we got everything we went in to get, we did it without his help from the very beginning, and he got absolutely nothing for all his shenanigans.
1) Both teams perform well, woohoo. Get to the end and barely win or lose.
2) My team gets a 25% lead early on, half of the enemy team leaves.
3) Enemy team gets a 25% lead early on, half of my team leaves.
This is going to be gauntylgrym but I'm anticipating it will become much worse. Now if they implemented a better system in general it'd work out more smoothly. This will become much more apparent as people who are only interested in PvE will not care about the PvP aspect of it and vice versa (which was a completely terrible idea mixing the two to begin with since you CANNOT balance both AROUND each other...((LOOK at other games for god's sake))). Aah yes good ole' Gauntylgrym, where the winning team goes on to actually see the content and the losing team just requeues. To me this is just a lazy way to implement new pvp and pve content. (half of your new PvE content will be largely ignored (yay for wasted effort eh?) They were too lazy to actually Do anything in-depth for either; so they just mashed everything together. Inc balancing nightmare. Why they havn't added a leaver percentage into the queue system is beyond me. Make it to where you can only leave 10 times a week before you have to wait 24 hours to requeue. I don't care. Do something....
As far as pvp, This is a problem that cannot be solved. Period. Why, because it's human nature to get the most reward for the least effort.
Assuming you have reached level 60, and you are spec for PVE, then you ARE going to lose. That's just the way the world works.
I fully expect the new pvp, after the patch, to be an AFK fest. You can't get kicked, and if you team scores zero points, the match is over in about 6 minutes, but it doesn't matter. You want to do 4 matches in PVP in the fastest time to get your 4000 AD.
The glory, which you earn from winning, doesn't matter, as there is a 25K glory cap. There is nothing to spend glory on after you've gotten the pvp gear, so 'winning' doesn't increase the amount of glory you have.
You want to make 'winning' count? Let people convert glory to AD. THEN you will have an incentive to win, to get the extra AD. As it stands now, once you max glory, it's pointless.
It's not bitterness. It's just that people really just...don't...care.. The only thing that matters in this game is AD. Earning the most AD for the least effort is what the natural equilibrium will stabilize at.
As far as pvp, This is a problem that cannot be solved. Period. Why, because it's human nature to get the most reward for the least effort.
Assuming you have reached level 60, and you are spec for PVE, then you ARE going to lose. That's just the way the world works.
I fully expect the new pvp, after the patch, to be an AFK fest. You can't get kicked, and if you team scores zero points, the match is over in about 6 minutes, but it doesn't matter. You want to do 4 matches in PVP in the fastest time to get your 4000 AD.
The glory, which you earn from winning, doesn't matter, as there is a 25K glory cap. There is nothing to spend glory on after you've gotten the pvp gear, so 'winning' doesn't increase the amount of glory you have.
You want to make 'winning' count? Let people convert glory to AD. THEN you will have an incentive to win, to get the extra AD. As it stands now, once you max glory, it's pointless.
It's not bitterness. It's just that people really just...don't...care.. The only thing that matters in this game is AD. Earning the most AD for the least effort is what the natural equilibrium will stabilize at.
I could not agree more. also with the current major update state, which will reduce the reward plus you need to fight if you want to earn it, there also possibility that the bugged team (you know, sometime when you picked up after queue it stuck and you cant enter PvP area, means the team missing man power) will simply walk away so no one got the reward at all
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited June 2013
Random queue for Pirate King (easy t2 dungeon).
5 people, 2 tanks, I'm one of em. No cleric I tell the party I don't need a cleric if they don't.
We breeze past the first boss no problems. I asked em if they wanted me to pull mobs to the ledge, they said don't bother, we're cruisin.
Wizard dies in a random encounter because he drove himself into a corner and drops immediately afterwards.
2 more people instantly drop.
This **** needs to stop. Put in a leaver penalty before Gauntlgrym, or no match is ever going to be finished with a full party. As soon as people see any sign of trouble, they drop.
A very simple programmatic solution to discourage this type of behavior could be implemented as follows:
1) every player account has an associated db string of 60 zeros, like so: '0000000000...00000' (out to a length of 60)
1a) this string of zeros is basically a simple stack, with new values 'pushed' onto the back, and old values 'popped' off the front of the string
2) each time a player finishes a dungeon or a pvp match properly (to completion, however that's defined)...
2a) the system pushes a zero (0) onto the string at the end and pops the first character off the string at the front
3) each time a player fails to finish a dungeon or a pvp match properly (-not- to completion, however that's defined) ...
3a) the system pushes a one (1) onto the end of the string and pops the first character off the string at the front
3b) the system places a timed debuff on the character ('chicken', 'coward', etc). This debuff prevents the character from joining any pvp or dungeon queue for a total number of minutes equal to the sum of all '1's in their string
Basically, this associated string creates a 'memory' of the player's behavior over 60 events. The goal behind this technique is basically whenever they bail-out of a event, it will make them wait for a number of minutes equal to the number of times in the last 60 events that they bailed-out before.
Because the string is player account based, they could not escape it by using another character. Only by properly ending the events would the 'bad marks' eventually leave the memory.
Additionally:
4) each day of good behavior might push 10 zeros and pop off 10 from the front
5) getting kicked by a leader does nothing to your score
6) disbanding the group during combat or before everyone has left the dungeon might push 15 1s
Had a Skirmish yesterday. Aberrant Assault. Funsies:D. No cleric. Still, good team we made it to the final boss without wiping and then wiped during the second BG. The boss did not reset, so we would have been made in the shade except that one of the 2 GWFs left. Down to 4 with no cleric we were screwed. Because of the lack of cleric, it took longer than usual so Skirmish hour was over. No way to requeue so 4 other people screwed on AD due to the selfishness of one.
Last Night I completed Dread Vault with an awesome party. If any of you are reading this, thanks again guys:D. This was the first time in a week that I have been able to complete a Delve trying once or twice a day, every day. Either the queue is so broken I can never get into a balanced party to actually even try. The system is broken so it doesn't move me or others into the dungeon once you accept (seems particularly prevalent on Spellplague). Or, most often, someone leaves. I have to tell you, after 30 minutes in a dungeon to have someone leave and screw the rest of the party is absolutely infuriating. I do not exploit so that is not the reason. It is just a bunch of self-centered people who do not care that they have joined a TEAM and do not care about the 4 other people in said team.
To the leavers, I have to ask, what is wrong with you people?
Thread still going? Guess what, its still ID10T: USER ERROR that is the problem. Its not the guy bailing, its the group as a whole. WHOA! I know, huge concept. If someone leaves, it because....its not working out. Don't like your job...quit...BLAM! No real life penalty, no pay check except for what you earned AKA no loot from the boss. Don't like your gf/...split up...BLAM! No real life penalty regardless of what rumor baggage you might aquire AKA no penalty because there is another group out there.
Still don't get it? It is user error...you, the guy/gal/person who is b@tching about people bailing on you are the problem...STOP PUGGING! Why force someone who isn't enjoying the current moment to be penalized. If anything, when someone bails you should be punished a long with them for failing to keep them there because you are failing (fail together, fall together). Doesn't make sense? How about the hippy method...let it go, chill out, share a brownie, and find real friends instead of people on the street you will rarely ever group with again. Its you, the person who doesn't have REGULAR people to rely on that is the problem and you want your frustrations vented on who ever crossed you (rather petty and pathetic). Ever get cut off while driving your car and you yell at them through the open window...your venting your anger which is no different then your pathetic request for a leaving penalty.
Its easier to replace someone then continue your pathetic emo whining about someone hurting you in a video game. If the que had the ability to replace someone, you could...talk to them first before inviting a replacement, to let them know what they are expecting instead of the "bailing on last boss when someone was pulled " thing cause a free chance at phat loot is easier then waiting another 30 minutes only + spending 45 minutes to get to the end (assuming no exploit). So yeah...its basically the guys whining that are the problem not the dude leaving (it is you, cause 1. You still fail to make friends 2. You get emotionally hurt way to easy over a video game and believe that only your investment of time is worth more then everyone else...pathetic)...he left, giving an opening to cover the position he couldn't. Basicly, the system needs the ability to find replacements and you need to have the ability to socialize more to find more reliable people then "met them on the bus, never saw them again but **** he pissed me off when he got off" moments you rely on to much.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
Its not the guy bailing, its the group as a whole. WHOA! I know, huge concept. If someone leaves, it because....its not working out.
You don't read much, do you?
We're talking about groups that are working just fine, everything is easy breezey, til one jerk off leaves. And there's no way to replace him, and he screwed over 4 people for whatever reason.
There's a reason leaver penalties are a popular mechanic in MMOs... it's because they are a good thing, and they encourage good behavior (strategizing to find a tactic that works for your party) instead of bad behavior (selfishly leaving every party that doesn't have the makeup you think is optimal for fastest rewards).
Comments
As for the rest of the post, if someone leaves the penalty should apply to the whole group: Instant disbandment, kick from zone, 15 minute wait FOR EVERYONE ONE. Still cannot understand, why you feel entitled to having your vengeance against someone. Sorry, but a PUG is a PUG and that is shorthand for RANDOM. Random people, random play styles, random time schedules, random temperaments. The main problem is the fact that you have one big fat flaw...YOU LACK THE SOCIAL ABILITY TO MAKE FRIENDS! Yes, that is why you demand a penalty with a vengeance, because someone bailed on you and you have this little psychotic voice in your head kill them! because your fun was ruined and you felt betrayed...but you didn't stop to think, if someone leaves could it not be your fault they left? Nope, its always the other person isn't it. How about, if someone choses to leave they give up their right to the reward at the end...oh wait, that was a penalty right there...they give up and stuck back in the que, on wait there is ye another penalty.
FFS, you are the problem not the other person. So long as they just walk out, they give up and get nothing...but you want to give them more problems. Try this...make friends and bring guild mates, otherwise you are stuck with a random gaggle of individuals with differing personalities and have to deal with it...either you leave or they leave, but someone will leave without the prize and there should be no reason to punish them because of it (Really, if you walk out on something how the hell do you win from that particular engagement/moment in time - OMG! I JUST WON THE LOTTERY! *tosses claim ticket in trash* Yep, still a winner. <-- logically, that doesn't make sense because you give up the right to the prize.)
talk about bonuses for continued participation.
Am I the only person who wants to punch a wall whenever I hear bonus just for participating?
How about a bonus for the most assist or the top three in assist...but just for hanging till then end?
Banning is too harsh... what if they person disconnected ?
1st to leave: 60 min cool-down on any related instance.
2nd to leave: 30 min cool-down on any related instance.
3rd to leave: 15 min cool-down on any related instance.
4th to leave: 5 min cool-down on any related instance.
5th to leave: 0 min cool-down on any related instance.
______
or something simular
-The first 5mins you zone into pvp or dungeon, you can leave without penalty.
-Leaving after 5mins = 30mins debuff making you unable to queue. (30mins is enough time to deal with life's real emergencies)
-Each time you complete a pvp or dungeon = Get a stackable buff (maybe 5x) which increases your Glory gained or you chance at getting a sweet T1/T2 reward loot bag at the end of the next dungeon.
Tell me this solution isn't awesome.
Except you forgot that you can wait 30+ minutes to get into a dungeon, even while que and I spent on/off like 5 one day trying to get one for a dungeon. Great suggestion, that will certainly speed up the problem :rolleyes:
Infact, forgot to add a something
- If no friends or guild mates of your own, you are auto banned for one week from game after disconnecting while you learn social skills.
Except, the best part of your entire suggestion is the last part would solve the entire problem without adding punishment. The more you participate, the great the reward...less participation no locking of your time having fun cause you are earning less reward. Simple put, you run 5 dungeons your 6th gives great rewards but if you leave 2 of 5, you get less...WITH OUT PUNISHING THEM FOR YOUR FAILURE TO BE A BETTER TEAM MATE! See, works without impacting someone else's life just because you 1) Lack social skills to make friends 2) Get butt hurt and take games way to seriously. If someone leaves, they are impacting their own game time.
Recap: You can have greater rewards, without having punishments. Want punishments, then sure as hell better apply to everyone and be nut crushing painful...Gauntlgrym is already making me hope that if you die you are locked from the dungeon, even if you win the PVP match you better be that good to not die and hope your team mates keep you alive. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor game mechanics already make me want to leave a lot of dungeons and no, skills to dodge has nothing to do with my ability to not get instan-face plant : 1) A lot of boss type monsters, that are not boss type 2) Max cap around 20-22k hitpoints for our non-tanks 3) Said boss type monsters with 2-4k damage hits and lots of monsters that seem to chain their attacks so if you dodge one and run back...another is charging up again meaning more dodging, by the third dodge you have done <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> melee damage and about to get face planted by minion NPC lighting up the floor and turning it red. (Recap this last sentece: To many NPC seem to fire off to many attacks and cover the floor red, no matter how often or where you dodge...boring mechanic, like dodge ball with heavy wrecking ball).
No party leader and everyone can be replaced. Kick requires 3 people in the party to accept.
That way it doesn't really matter if you leave or get dc'ed,you can be replaced.
If a 5 man group is mid dungeon and one person leaves, why not have the Que just pull the next available person to replace the now open spot. Even better, allow the party leader an option to designate what type of role needs to be filled before submiting a request to the Que, which would then look for the next possible canidate.
You know what, **** it. My idea is too constructive. Let's just pull out the torchs and pitchforks, its far easier to come up with deconstructive ideas.
This is how it worked during the Closed Beta Tests.
Problem is people would leave right before the boss and people would get stuck joining a dungeon just to kill the last boss. The forums were actually pretty filled with complaints about skipping the entire dungeon because they joined a party which was already in progress.
The other issue is the PvP match is halfway over. A person leaves because they're on the losing side and you queue in expecting there to be a new game - No! You queued in to find the team is behind by 1/4. How would you feel?
Allowing people to join at the end should be an option in case, like many dungeons, the trek to the end results in a leaver at the boss' gate before the first attempt but it shouldn't be automatic and likely shouldn't be added in PvP at all.
The priority is to get people to stay.
Like I said before though the system should be forgiving. When you look at League of Legends the system takes into consideration whether the leave is standard behavior or a rare occurrence. For argument's sake you should be able to leave at least a week without repercussions. DC's and Emergencies happen and that has to be understood and forgiven.
But at this time we have, especially in PvP, large amounts of players who simply leave if they are on the losing team. That behavior needs to be squashed and rewarding them for staying isn't an answer. When you're playing in PvP systems you play to win or lose. Doesn't matter which and simply deserting the team isn't an option.
You play, you get your reward, albeit smaller than not winning. You leave and you get court martialed.
Rewards for staying and doing what you agreed to do to begin with isn't enough.
This. I would be the first one to support a penalty and I'd like to see much longer than one hour. However, the queue system is broken. The system needs to be fixed first before even considering anything else. It needs to NEVER form a group for a dungeon without a cleric and, preferably a CW. The other 3 (current) classes can fill the gaps in most dungeons in any variety.
Better that than have 4 people inconvenienced after spending 45 minutes in a Dungeon only to have someone quit right at the final boss during Delves and not be able to complete.
In a penalty system you punish good players by forcing them to spend time with bad players for no reason ... they need to either bracket PVP so you play with players of your skill level only (people who go 30+ and 0 most games should not be grouped with people who get less then 10 kills a game) ... or keep it the way it is so good players can leave if they get a bad team (no enchants is a big one).
Also - I noticed in the notes posted about an upcoming patch that they "lowered" the rewards for LOSING PvP . . . why reward failure at all? Do like they do in other MMO games . . . win or try again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Problem with that is that the queue system puts premades with Pugs. A pug will never beat a premade. People should still be able to PVP without spending a million dollars on gear and enchants and having to join a PVP Guild.
I have a story about that.
I was with a few friends in a heroic dungeon once, and one of the guys we got from the queue wanted to skip bosses and just go straight to the end boss to get daily quest credit for completing the dungeon as quickly as possible. We told him we were doing all bosses, because we wanted all the loot tokens from them. He told us he wasn't doing all the bosses, then told us to vote-kick him from the group so he wouldn't get the leaver penalty. We told him we weren't going to kick him from the group, and that if he wanted to leave he should just leave. He refused to leave of his own accord, because he did not want to get the leaver penalty, and since we refused to kick him to circumvent the leaver penalty, he told us that he was just going to stand there at the entrance and go AFK so that he would still get credit after we finished the dungeon.
We proceeded to 4-man the place without his help (since he was not a critical component of the group, i.e. tank or healer), kill all of the bosses to get all of our loot tokens just like we said we were going to, and then right before we engaged the last boss, we vote-kicked him from the group so he wouldn't get credit for completing the dungeon, he still spent all that time clearing the dungeon whether he was helping us or not, and it cost him *more* time than if he had just left in the first place and ate the penalty like he was supposed to.
We cleared the dungeon, we got everything we went in to get, we did it without his help from the very beginning, and he got absolutely nothing for all his shenanigans.
This is going to be gauntylgrym but I'm anticipating it will become much worse. Now if they implemented a better system in general it'd work out more smoothly. This will become much more apparent as people who are only interested in PvE will not care about the PvP aspect of it and vice versa (which was a completely terrible idea mixing the two to begin with since you CANNOT balance both AROUND each other...((LOOK at other games for god's sake))). Aah yes good ole' Gauntylgrym, where the winning team goes on to actually see the content and the losing team just requeues. To me this is just a lazy way to implement new pvp and pve content. (half of your new PvE content will be largely ignored (yay for wasted effort eh?) They were too lazy to actually Do anything in-depth for either; so they just mashed everything together. Inc balancing nightmare. Why they havn't added a leaver percentage into the queue system is beyond me. Make it to where you can only leave 10 times a week before you have to wait 24 hours to requeue. I don't care. Do something....
Assuming you have reached level 60, and you are spec for PVE, then you ARE going to lose. That's just the way the world works.
I fully expect the new pvp, after the patch, to be an AFK fest. You can't get kicked, and if you team scores zero points, the match is over in about 6 minutes, but it doesn't matter. You want to do 4 matches in PVP in the fastest time to get your 4000 AD.
The glory, which you earn from winning, doesn't matter, as there is a 25K glory cap. There is nothing to spend glory on after you've gotten the pvp gear, so 'winning' doesn't increase the amount of glory you have.
You want to make 'winning' count? Let people convert glory to AD. THEN you will have an incentive to win, to get the extra AD. As it stands now, once you max glory, it's pointless.
It's not bitterness. It's just that people really just...don't...care.. The only thing that matters in this game is AD. Earning the most AD for the least effort is what the natural equilibrium will stabilize at.
I could not agree more. also with the current major update state, which will reduce the reward plus you need to fight if you want to earn it, there also possibility that the bugged team (you know, sometime when you picked up after queue it stuck and you cant enter PvP area, means the team missing man power) will simply walk away so no one got the reward at all
5 people, 2 tanks, I'm one of em. No cleric I tell the party I don't need a cleric if they don't.
We breeze past the first boss no problems. I asked em if they wanted me to pull mobs to the ledge, they said don't bother, we're cruisin.
Wizard dies in a random encounter because he drove himself into a corner and drops immediately afterwards.
2 more people instantly drop.
This **** needs to stop. Put in a leaver penalty before Gauntlgrym, or no match is ever going to be finished with a full party. As soon as people see any sign of trouble, they drop.
1) every player account has an associated db string of 60 zeros, like so: '0000000000...00000' (out to a length of 60)
1a) this string of zeros is basically a simple stack, with new values 'pushed' onto the back, and old values 'popped' off the front of the string
2) each time a player finishes a dungeon or a pvp match properly (to completion, however that's defined)...
2a) the system pushes a zero (0) onto the string at the end and pops the first character off the string at the front
3) each time a player fails to finish a dungeon or a pvp match properly (-not- to completion, however that's defined) ...
3a) the system pushes a one (1) onto the end of the string and pops the first character off the string at the front
3b) the system places a timed debuff on the character ('chicken', 'coward', etc). This debuff prevents the character from joining any pvp or dungeon queue for a total number of minutes equal to the sum of all '1's in their string
Basically, this associated string creates a 'memory' of the player's behavior over 60 events. The goal behind this technique is basically whenever they bail-out of a event, it will make them wait for a number of minutes equal to the number of times in the last 60 events that they bailed-out before.
Because the string is player account based, they could not escape it by using another character. Only by properly ending the events would the 'bad marks' eventually leave the memory.
Additionally:
4) each day of good behavior might push 10 zeros and pop off 10 from the front
5) getting kicked by a leader does nothing to your score
6) disbanding the group during combat or before everyone has left the dungeon might push 15 1s
Anyway, just a thought.
Last Night I completed Dread Vault with an awesome party. If any of you are reading this, thanks again guys:D. This was the first time in a week that I have been able to complete a Delve trying once or twice a day, every day. Either the queue is so broken I can never get into a balanced party to actually even try. The system is broken so it doesn't move me or others into the dungeon once you accept (seems particularly prevalent on Spellplague). Or, most often, someone leaves. I have to tell you, after 30 minutes in a dungeon to have someone leave and screw the rest of the party is absolutely infuriating. I do not exploit so that is not the reason. It is just a bunch of self-centered people who do not care that they have joined a TEAM and do not care about the 4 other people in said team.
To the leavers, I have to ask, what is wrong with you people?
Still don't get it? It is user error...you, the guy/gal/person who is b@tching about people bailing on you are the problem...STOP PUGGING! Why force someone who isn't enjoying the current moment to be penalized. If anything, when someone bails you should be punished a long with them for failing to keep them there because you are failing (fail together, fall together). Doesn't make sense? How about the hippy method...let it go, chill out, share a brownie, and find real friends instead of people on the street you will rarely ever group with again. Its you, the person who doesn't have REGULAR people to rely on that is the problem and you want your frustrations vented on who ever crossed you (rather petty and pathetic). Ever get cut off while driving your car and you yell at them through the open window...your venting your anger which is no different then your pathetic request for a leaving penalty.
Its easier to replace someone then continue your pathetic emo whining about someone hurting you in a video game. If the que had the ability to replace someone, you could...talk to them first before inviting a replacement, to let them know what they are expecting instead of the "bailing on last boss when someone was pulled " thing cause a free chance at phat loot is easier then waiting another 30 minutes only + spending 45 minutes to get to the end (assuming no exploit). So yeah...its basically the guys whining that are the problem not the dude leaving (it is you, cause 1. You still fail to make friends 2. You get emotionally hurt way to easy over a video game and believe that only your investment of time is worth more then everyone else...pathetic)...he left, giving an opening to cover the position he couldn't. Basicly, the system needs the ability to find replacements and you need to have the ability to socialize more to find more reliable people then "met them on the bus, never saw them again but **** he pissed me off when he got off" moments you rely on to much.
You don't read much, do you?
We're talking about groups that are working just fine, everything is easy breezey, til one jerk off leaves. And there's no way to replace him, and he screwed over 4 people for whatever reason.
There's a reason leaver penalties are a popular mechanic in MMOs... it's because they are a good thing, and they encourage good behavior (strategizing to find a tactic that works for your party) instead of bad behavior (selfishly leaving every party that doesn't have the makeup you think is optimal for fastest rewards).