CO went F2P under Atari's rule, STO only went F2P to fit in with PWE's stable of games however.
Yeah, I got that wrong, STO went F2P after the merger. Still, F2P was probably being worked on before the sale though. Seven months is not a long time for that change.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
There are problems with the game and there are even problems in which there really is absolutely no clear answer to but everything is being taken seriously and considred by the development team more so than any other launch I have ever seen.
Well, you don't pour 3 years of your life into a project, especially one based on such a beloved nerd staple as D&D, and not care about it. Despite what some of the naysaying frothers on the forums say. Anyone who suggests the dev team doesn't care or isn't trying to make the game better is nuts.
You develop something for that long and it's your baby. Frankly, we're lucky Cryptic employees can't respond personally on the forums. Cus I would smack a be-...holder? over my baby. >.>
There are problems with the game and there are even problems in which there really is absolutely no clear answer to but everything is being taken seriously and considred by the development team more so than any other launch I have ever seen.
The changes are taking time, which sucks for us, but with a bit of patience we'll have the great game we always wanted and expected from Neverwinter. I just ran some basic content through the Shard Preview and I have to say I really am liking the changes to the Divine Cleric. I'm feeling the pain in some areas but in others I started jumping with joy and of course there's likely going to be more changes down the road which I think will only improve the game that much more.
There's been mistakes in the past. There are mistakes in this game.
But their fixing them as fast and effectively as they can.
I actually had to laugh yesterday. I saw a thread complaining about the VIP Access which comes with the Hero of the North package and many of the responses were basically saying 'There isn't a queue anyway so don't worry' and it immediately made me think of April 30-May 3 or so where the doom and boom posts were rampant about the log-in queue.
How many of you guys remember that? It was going to be the end of Neverwinter! Oh my god there's thousands upon thousands in the queue this won't get resolved and the game is going to die! And now we have come to the point people forgot there was even a queue to begin with.
Consider that the next time you think some problem will be the end of Neverwinter and will never be resolved.
Well said, I actually have to laugh when they call me fanboi I had major gripes and concerns at one point during alpha, and still there isn't a day that goes by when Someinator doesn't hear me gripe about traps (Random and deadly, random and deadly!!! ) the difference is, I know these guys are busting their collective asses to fix what's wrong and make what we have work better...trouble is we have this group that thinks unless they go 3.5 ruleset or become a sandbox or become a sub based game that it is auto fail and they are going to stick around bashing the game until it happens. /shrug it's the nature of the beast but it's also awesome to see Cryptic prove them wrong on a daily basis.
Well, you don't pour 3 years of your life into a project, especially one based on such a beloved nerd staple as D&D, and not care about it. Despite what some of the naysaying frothers on the forums say. Anyone who suggests the dev team doesn't care or isn't trying to make the game better is nuts.
You develop something for that long and it's your baby. Frankly, we're lucky Cryptic employees can't respond personally on the forums. Cus I would smack a wench over my baby. >.>
This^ I always talk about the interview that Stoked did with Zinc way back when STO first launched there was already talk of a new MMO and a lot of us noticed the Core rules box on his desk, these guys are big D&D fans anyone who went to PAX and talked with them can tell that.
I meant prolegap. You're actually being reasonable and thoughtful about your position.
My apologies then.
I do think that you might be underestimating the degree of mobility/freedom that JE had, though. I mean Bill Roper was able to move on even after the epic disaster of Hellgate:London. I think that JE, with a number of modestly successful titles to his credit, would have been a hot commodity. Maybe not "write your own ticket," but I don't think he *had* to stay at Cryptic (except maybe out of loyalty to his employees.)
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I doubt he changed his mind. I definitely haven't. You can cover the taste of that bitter pill with enough money.
The industry is changing. Trying to find new payment structures and revenue strategies. The traditional MMO structure doesn't work anymore and MMO's in general are a horrible financial risk ( As Bioware can tell you ). Look how many have come and gone over the years and how many we have left that are still using the subscription model to any great success. ( WoW and Eve Online really ). Rift was one of the last big games that still used a sub model, and its finally changing to a F2P model as well.
Also, I doubt he personally gets much in the way of kickback from the revenue model. Especially right now. People are acting like the game is making money hand over fist somehow. Its not. Its still in development, meaning it still has its full team on it. Those man hours aren't cheap. There's a reason many studios use contractors now or see a huge lay off sweep after the completion of a project. It takes a lot of people to make a game, but not as many to maintain it afterwards.
Smart choice, I keep saying CO is a hidden gold mine.
If they just actually worked on it and maybe re-released or something.
It really is a fantastic game, just as much potential as this game, especially if they can get FOundry over there.
Agreed, it's funny the three major MMO's I played growing up was D&D, Champions and the Star Trek Pnp RPG and now they are all with the same MMO developer (ironic actually), and Champions the PNP game is a gold mine of resource material....people who have only played the MMO, are only seeing a very small fraction of that universe.
I do think that you might be underestimating the degree of mobility/freedom that JE had, though. I mean Bill Roper was able to move on even after the epic disaster of Hellgate:London.)
Oh, I'm sure he has the mobility. But it would be really hard to throw away 3 years worth of your work. Especially since with the changing market you would likely end up working on another project that would be F2P anyway. Unless you moved into single player game development.
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with Neverwinter. So its not like he's stuck on a terrible project with a pricing structure he doesn't agree with. Neverwinter may be sparse at the moment, but it has a ton of potential going forward. I would want to see that through and consider it a giddy nerd privilege to be working with Neverwinter as an IP to begin with.
It took a pretty penny to secure the rights to Neverwinter from Atari. He's not easily going to find that chance somewhere else.
still there isn't a day that goes by when Someinator doesn't hear me gripe about traps (Random and deadly, random and deadly!!! ) the difference is, I know these guys are busting their collective asses to fix what's wrong and make what we have work better
Don't get me started on traps.
I like how this isn't DDO where a rogue who isn't maxed means an unbeatable dungeon but the traps here seem like mild nuisances rather than the true terror they are intended to be.
My foundry content, if I can ever bring myself to complete it, will involve forcing players into situations where the traps will be major issues (both official and improvised) because to me traps are a paramount part of the game.
But while I think there are a lot of core aspects in D&D which didn't get the proper amount of love in NW such as traps, skills, sandbox (choices) and exploration mechanics I think that will come in due time.
Right now players still can't use a heightmap editor in The Foundry but as soon as we can I'm really going to start pushing for Cryptic to add Neverwinter Nights style traveling using the creative and work potential of the community. I want there to be persistent zones outside of hubs and I believe the player base could be used to populate such a world.
The game doesn't need to be open world to create an open world experience but it does need travel and exploration. That's my number one desire for the game and I hope after we get the tools Cryptic will listen to that plea which, thus far, has been highly supported by the player base.
Don't get me started on traps.
I like how this isn't DDO where a rogue who isn't maxed means an unbeatable dungeon but the traps here seem like mild nuisances rather than the true terror they are intended to be.
Gah, I know. I want to HURT people with the Foundry >.>
Its kind of a problem in general with the Foundry. Creating an obstacle or threat that's dangerous enough to encourage the player to take an alternative approach or find another solution. Without having to cheese it up with encounter stacking or similar tricks.
I would kill for some more fundemental terrain tools in the Foundry though, yes. I had to scrap half my ideas when I first starting working with the Foundry. Simply because they didn't fit into the map selections without having to use one of the more obviously artificial maps. Which in turn ruins the immersion.
Don't get me started on traps.
I like how this isn't DDO where a rogue who isn't maxed means an unbeatable dungeon but the traps here seem like mild nuisances rather than the true terror they are intended to be.
My foundry content, if I can ever bring myself to complete it, will involve forcing players into situations where the traps will be major issues (both official and improvised) because to me traps are a paramount part of the game.
But while I think there are a lot of core aspects in D&D which didn't get the proper amount of love in NW such as traps, skills, sandbox (choices) and exploration mechanics I think that will come in due time.
Right now players still can't use a heightmap editor in The Foundry but as soon as we can I'm really going to start pushing for Cryptic to add Neverwinter Nights style traveling using the creative and work potential of the community. I want there to be persistent zones outside of hubs and I believe the player base could be used to populate such a world.
The game doesn't need to be open world to create an open world experience but it does need travel and exploration. That's my number one desire for the game and I hope after we get the tools Cryptic will listen to that plea which, thus far, has been highly supported by the player base.
Oh preaching to the choir, I would love to see NWN style traveling, I would love to be able to set up the Cruel Wolf Inn from my campaign as a persistent zone, but yeah I both love and am frustrated with the foundry now so much I want to do (like make my tavern patrons sit or have a barmaid take orders and not look like a robot) but can't and I know the devs can script it in!!!! aghhhh!
But yeah I don't want an unbeatable dungeon but for folks to be fearful to go into the artisans dungeon, because they don't know what kind of traps or how deadly they will be or what wandering monsters the'll face would be amazing.
Also I'm betting we'll be seeing Positron on the Cryptic North team soon rather than later.
Would love to see the band get back together so to speak.
Yeah, I kind of lost track of those guys. Back when Paragon was shutting down, they were whispers that some of the core group had some big plan in the works that they couldn't talk about until the closure actually happened. Never heard anything after that.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Yeah, I kind of lost track of those guys. Back when Paragon was shutting down, they were whispers that some of the core group had some big plan in the works that they couldn't talk about until the closure actually happened. Never heard anything after that.
Yeah Positron was Aces, such a nice guy, and was just a vault of comic book knowledge...Cryptic could really use him, heck I would even like to see Cuppajoe back but I think she is still with Ncsoft, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah Positron was Aces, such a nice guy, and was just a vault of comic book knowledge...Cryptic could really use him, heck I would even like to see Cuppajoe back but I think she is still with Ncsoft, if I'm not mistaken.
Does anyone know the final fate of the CoX license?
It's probably in NCSofts big license vault waiting for them to feel the time is right for another Superhero game, but it could have defaulted back to Cryptic or even be owned by an old member of the dev team depending on the terms of the license transfer.
Does anyone know the final fate of the CoX license?
It's probably in NCSofts big license vault waiting for them to feel the time is right for another Superhero game, but it could have defaulted back to Cryptic or even be owned by an old member of the dev team depending on the terms of the license transfer.
NCSoft retains the license.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Sorry, the one thing I hate above all things is watching a good franchise go to waste because the owners prefer to sit on the license rather than let it go in case the new owners make more money than they did off it.
I actually had to laugh yesterday. I saw a thread complaining about the VIP Access which comes with the Hero of the North package and many of the responses were basically saying 'There isn't a queue anyway so don't worry' and it immediately made me think of April 30-May 3 or so where the doom and boom posts were rampant about the log-in queue.
7k queues on each of three shards. My queue was 4.
You need to get out more.... go try to play an AeriaGames game..... Or lets talk about Blizzard and DiabloFLOP III .... lol, love these people that play one game and a facebook RPG and think they know what "sucks" is.... There is a LOT of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out there.... PWE and Cryptic is on the low end of that scale..... trust me..... Go look at the cash shop at Aeriagames/Shaiya and talk to me about P2W... go look at their forums and how much QQ there is about class balance and how the GM's do not even respond.... then talk to me about non-caring staff..... this game is still OPEN BETA!!! there are going to and will, be glitches, just because the world does not revolve around you and your timeframe, I am sorry.
Yeah I'm not going to get into the whole opinion about fail or not...some people back from the early CoH days hold a grudge for some imagined offense and their minds won't be changed. I have met many of these guys at Pax and have seen Jack at several GDC's back when I still attended that sort of thing...anyone who meets these guys knows they are gamers and D&D fans, it's the same way with STO Dan Sthal lives and breathes Star Trek. I have no doubt these guys are committed to making their games better..but better will never be good enough to those that hate Cryptic nothing will ever be.
7k queues on each of three shards. My queue was 4.
Not 4k; 4. Totally worth it.
Yeah my god how many developers wish they had those queues? Jack has to be laughing his *** off at the naysayers.....no on second thought he would just grin and move onto something else.
I meant prolegap. You're actually being reasonable and thoughtful about your position.
I've been playing games since the mid-eighties, MMOs since the days of MUDs, and have been following the gaming press all that time. I have a pretty good understanding how things work in the industry, and I'm laying the blame for the game's business model completely on PWE. The quote is just a sad reminder of the Cryptic that once was.
There's a fairly common confidence scheme where people are offered a "free" travel-package to an exotic-sounding destination, because of a company's anniversary, or some other excuse. When the travelers get to their destination, they're constantly badgered to buy day trips and guided tours that cost several hundred dollars a piece.
The above is exactly how Perfect World's business model works, except the marks this time aren't pensioners, it's children, and other people with poor impulse control. Basic things like respecs now cost real money, and even the character customization, the thing that Cryptic's most known for, you have to pay for. The games even have gambling in the form of lockboxes, of course with the advantage that the house never has to pay winnings in real money.
Why are you still here if you hate the game so much?
I don't hate the game. The game parts are actually fairly well done, like in all Cryptic games. Besides it's the only Forgotten Realms game around at the moment. I'm also hoping they'll add more character customization options, and that something changes in PW business model in the long run.
PWE is a business! Their only purpose is to make money. They don't owe you anything!
Actually they do owe us all to act morally and responsibly. That's called Social Responsibility. And every company should be aware of theirs. Without it, a company will act amorally, which is what we're seeing. You know who else acts amorally? Psychopaths. And there are very few of those we like having around.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
7k queues on each of three shards. My queue was 4.
Not 4k; 4. Totally worth it.
Mine was 1. My friends had 20 minute waits and they were bugging me to get in the queue. 'Nah don't worry about it! I'll sign in when you get on.'
I think they got tired of that trick after the first go around.
But even now there's no queue. The point was more along the line that people had claimed it was the end of the world right then and there. Add more shards to support the demand. Etc. Etc.
Cryptic got on top of it and resolved the issue within a couple of days and now players forgot it even happened.
Comments
Yeah, I got that wrong, STO went F2P after the merger. Still, F2P was probably being worked on before the sale though. Seven months is not a long time for that change.
I meant prolegap. You're actually being reasonable and thoughtful about your position.
I doubt he changed his mind. I definitely haven't. You can cover the taste of that bitter pill with enough money.
Well, you don't pour 3 years of your life into a project, especially one based on such a beloved nerd staple as D&D, and not care about it. Despite what some of the naysaying frothers on the forums say. Anyone who suggests the dev team doesn't care or isn't trying to make the game better is nuts.
You develop something for that long and it's your baby. Frankly, we're lucky Cryptic employees can't respond personally on the forums. Cus I would smack a be-...holder? over my baby. >.>
Well said, I actually have to laugh when they call me fanboi I had major gripes and concerns at one point during alpha, and still there isn't a day that goes by when Someinator doesn't hear me gripe about traps (Random and deadly, random and deadly!!!
This^ I always talk about the interview that Stoked did with Zinc way back when STO first launched there was already talk of a new MMO and a lot of us noticed the Core rules box on his desk, these guys are big D&D fans anyone who went to PAX and talked with them can tell that.
My apologies then.
I do think that you might be underestimating the degree of mobility/freedom that JE had, though. I mean Bill Roper was able to move on even after the epic disaster of Hellgate:London. I think that JE, with a number of modestly successful titles to his credit, would have been a hot commodity. Maybe not "write your own ticket," but I don't think he *had* to stay at Cryptic (except maybe out of loyalty to his employees.)
If they just actually worked on it and maybe re-released or something.
It really is a fantastic game, just as much potential as this game, especially if they can get FOundry over there.
The industry is changing. Trying to find new payment structures and revenue strategies. The traditional MMO structure doesn't work anymore and MMO's in general are a horrible financial risk ( As Bioware can tell you ). Look how many have come and gone over the years and how many we have left that are still using the subscription model to any great success. ( WoW and Eve Online really ). Rift was one of the last big games that still used a sub model, and its finally changing to a F2P model as well.
Also, I doubt he personally gets much in the way of kickback from the revenue model. Especially right now. People are acting like the game is making money hand over fist somehow. Its not. Its still in development, meaning it still has its full team on it. Those man hours aren't cheap. There's a reason many studios use contractors now or see a huge lay off sweep after the completion of a project. It takes a lot of people to make a game, but not as many to maintain it afterwards.
Agreed, it's funny the three major MMO's I played growing up was D&D, Champions and the Star Trek Pnp RPG and now they are all with the same MMO developer (ironic actually), and Champions the PNP game is a gold mine of resource material....people who have only played the MMO, are only seeing a very small fraction of that universe.
Oh, I'm sure he has the mobility. But it would be really hard to throw away 3 years worth of your work. Especially since with the changing market you would likely end up working on another project that would be F2P anyway. Unless you moved into single player game development.
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with Neverwinter. So its not like he's stuck on a terrible project with a pricing structure he doesn't agree with. Neverwinter may be sparse at the moment, but it has a ton of potential going forward. I would want to see that through and consider it a giddy nerd privilege to be working with Neverwinter as an IP to begin with.
It took a pretty penny to secure the rights to Neverwinter from Atari. He's not easily going to find that chance somewhere else.
Would love to see the band get back together so to speak.
Don't get me started on traps.
I like how this isn't DDO where a rogue who isn't maxed means an unbeatable dungeon but the traps here seem like mild nuisances rather than the true terror they are intended to be.
My foundry content, if I can ever bring myself to complete it, will involve forcing players into situations where the traps will be major issues (both official and improvised) because to me traps are a paramount part of the game.
But while I think there are a lot of core aspects in D&D which didn't get the proper amount of love in NW such as traps, skills, sandbox (choices) and exploration mechanics I think that will come in due time.
Right now players still can't use a heightmap editor in The Foundry but as soon as we can I'm really going to start pushing for Cryptic to add Neverwinter Nights style traveling using the creative and work potential of the community. I want there to be persistent zones outside of hubs and I believe the player base could be used to populate such a world.
The game doesn't need to be open world to create an open world experience but it does need travel and exploration. That's my number one desire for the game and I hope after we get the tools Cryptic will listen to that plea which, thus far, has been highly supported by the player base.
Wow, there's a handle I haven't heard in forever.
Gah, I know. I want to HURT people with the Foundry >.>
Its kind of a problem in general with the Foundry. Creating an obstacle or threat that's dangerous enough to encourage the player to take an alternative approach or find another solution. Without having to cheese it up with encounter stacking or similar tricks.
I would kill for some more fundemental terrain tools in the Foundry though, yes. I had to scrap half my ideas when I first starting working with the Foundry. Simply because they didn't fit into the map selections without having to use one of the more obviously artificial maps. Which in turn ruins the immersion.
Oh preaching to the choir, I would love to see NWN style traveling, I would love to be able to set up the Cruel Wolf Inn from my campaign as a persistent zone, but yeah I both love and am frustrated with the foundry now so much I want to do (like make my tavern patrons sit or have a barmaid take orders and not look like a robot) but can't and I know the devs can script it in!!!! aghhhh!
But yeah I don't want an unbeatable dungeon but for folks to be fearful to go into the artisans dungeon, because they don't know what kind of traps or how deadly they will be or what wandering monsters the'll face would be amazing.
Yeah, I kind of lost track of those guys. Back when Paragon was shutting down, they were whispers that some of the core group had some big plan in the works that they couldn't talk about until the closure actually happened. Never heard anything after that.
Yeah Positron was Aces, such a nice guy, and was just a vault of comic book knowledge...Cryptic could really use him, heck I would even like to see Cuppajoe back but I think she is still with Ncsoft, if I'm not mistaken.
I miss the design approach of CoH/CoV. Focused on the fun of it rather than the numbers. Really wish more MMOs took that route.
Does anyone know the final fate of the CoX license?
It's probably in NCSofts big license vault waiting for them to feel the time is right for another Superhero game, but it could have defaulted back to Cryptic or even be owned by an old member of the dev team depending on the terms of the license transfer.
NCSoft retains the license.
<.<
Sorry, the one thing I hate above all things is watching a good franchise go to waste because the owners prefer to sit on the license rather than let it go in case the new owners make more money than they did off it.
7k queues on each of three shards. My queue was 4.
Not 4k; 4. Totally worth it.
Yeah I'm not going to get into the whole opinion about fail or not...some people back from the early CoH days hold a grudge for some imagined offense and their minds won't be changed. I have met many of these guys at Pax and have seen Jack at several GDC's back when I still attended that sort of thing...anyone who meets these guys knows they are gamers and D&D fans, it's the same way with STO Dan Sthal lives and breathes Star Trek. I have no doubt these guys are committed to making their games better..but better will never be good enough to those that hate Cryptic nothing will ever be.
Yeah my god how many developers wish they had those queues? Jack has to be laughing his *** off at the naysayers.....no on second thought he would just grin and move onto something else.
I've been playing games since the mid-eighties, MMOs since the days of MUDs, and have been following the gaming press all that time. I have a pretty good understanding how things work in the industry, and I'm laying the blame for the game's business model completely on PWE. The quote is just a sad reminder of the Cryptic that once was.
There's a fairly common confidence scheme where people are offered a "free" travel-package to an exotic-sounding destination, because of a company's anniversary, or some other excuse. When the travelers get to their destination, they're constantly badgered to buy day trips and guided tours that cost several hundred dollars a piece.
The above is exactly how Perfect World's business model works, except the marks this time aren't pensioners, it's children, and other people with poor impulse control. Basic things like respecs now cost real money, and even the character customization, the thing that Cryptic's most known for, you have to pay for. The games even have gambling in the form of lockboxes, of course with the advantage that the house never has to pay winnings in real money.
I don't hate the game. The game parts are actually fairly well done, like in all Cryptic games. Besides it's the only Forgotten Realms game around at the moment. I'm also hoping they'll add more character customization options, and that something changes in PW business model in the long run.
Actually they do owe us all to act morally and responsibly. That's called Social Responsibility. And every company should be aware of theirs. Without it, a company will act amorally, which is what we're seeing. You know who else acts amorally? Psychopaths. And there are very few of those we like having around.
Mine was 1. My friends had 20 minute waits and they were bugging me to get in the queue. 'Nah don't worry about it! I'll sign in when you get on.'
I think they got tired of that trick after the first go around.
But even now there's no queue. The point was more along the line that people had claimed it was the end of the world right then and there. Add more shards to support the demand. Etc. Etc.
Cryptic got on top of it and resolved the issue within a couple of days and now players forgot it even happened.