Also put in a timer for PvP, if you don't leave the spawn area in <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> seconds you're booted. Seriously, get rid of afk/bots in PvP. 5v2 sucks for both sides.
RIP Rogues. So many nerfs for Rogues but they barely nerfed the truly OP Wizard class.
What really bothers me is them nerfing Rogues' primary source of damage in PvE so much. Slower bleeds and only 10 stacks can be applied to 1 target. Bleeds not stacking individually is bad enough, but they had to go and do this to Rogues. Deadly Momentum nerf is another kick to our nuts.
Meanwhile in PvP, Shocking Execution nerfed to the ground. Sure, the damage is ridiculous right now and OP as f*ck, but 60%? They leave Wizards' Ice Knife in tact, which is basically a ranged version of Shocking Execution that can be dodged, but you only have 1 second to roll and pray lag / ping doesn't own you.
I don't know how I feel about these changes. Guess we'll have to play test it to find out. It just sucks that Rogues got the most and harshest nerfs. I wouldn't be too worried... except for the fact that Cryptic is going to release only 1 real class balancing patch in 2 months.
Well there goes my last reason for staying. Reducing TR Shocking Execution by 60%!! id friggen rediculous. Its means you now have to do a cookie cutter spec rather that have some flexibility in your spec. I've stuck with this game hoping it was going to be one that I can finally stick with for a long period of time but it looks as though it's just another WoW with constant nerfs and changes that will never let you settle into your character and get a rythm going. CYA I'm done.
I wish I never spent money buying the $59.99 Founders Pack.
Quite pleased with GWF changes, it's hard to say anything without numbers, but the concept looks very solid. No idea how the bleed changes for Rogues will translate to damage, but it seems we will be able to at least compete in dps now.
My major worry is for the TR; I am glad to see a lot of the changes especially for GWFs...I feel for you guys lol. But you said "more slowly" for our bleed damage tick. What does that mean? Bleed is 60% of our damage; so are you increasing it to 1.5s? 2s? higher? Each half second is a 15% overall damage reduction for us; so i'm curious to what you guys are planning on moving that to. GWFs and GFs can compete with TRs in damage; they have to play their asses off, but they can do it. As things are patched/fixed I know GFs will fall into their tank roll and a lot of their damage will fall by the way side. GWF will pass TRs as #1 damage easily if this patch releases as is; the fix on Deadly Momentum and the bleed nerf will crush the class. Sometimes small changes are the way to go to balance things out; such as buffing the GWF and then toning down the TR or however you want to do it. As far as the shocking executioner; i don't personally use it much as I don't pvp, but I can get my lashing strike to hit over 122k so if I want to 1 shot someone I'll use that lol. Anyways good luck with the game I'll hope you guys have put some thought into it.
Astral Shield did not need to be "fixed", nor should it have been changed. It is by far the best cleric ability, and all other classes can stack their most powerful ability without limit. This change will make a group with 2 clerics completely pointless, whereas all other classes can have 2 per group without decreasing their functionality - in fact, often increasing it.
GWF buffs are unlikely to be enough to fix the class. I will reserve final judgment until I see how much Sure Strike and Wicked Strike damage were buffed by. Unless the damage reduction per mob hit was removed or significantly reduced, the entirety of the other changes will not compensate enough to make GWF viable. All the cooldown reductions are nice, but GWF encounters are already relatively weak and animate slowly, not to mention having cooldowns 5+ seconds longer than equivalent GF encounters. The reductions will need to be significant for this change to be adequate.
Lots of good changes aside from this, though. And, Astral Shield aside, at least this is progress.
Edit: A couple more things.
Rogues should not have had their bleed nerfed. Good rogues were able to consistently post top damage in PvE, and it should remain that way. Nerfing the number of bleed stacks per mob is very similar, in fact, to nerfing Astral Shield. Both cleric and rogue have their best ability nerfed to the point that having 2 of that class is detrimental. Hopefully that doesn't turn out to be the case with rogue, we will have to see how the bleed is affected.
Shocking Execution nerf was certainly warranted, however, being mainly a PvP one-shot gank skill that we are all familiar with and thoroughly dislike.
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That actually makes me wonder, considering I still manage to out DPS CW before any changes in instances like Pirates where the CW knocks tons of mobs off ledges. I mean, I'm #1 even before the end fight, so I just assumed CW did not get credit for the falling damage.
Thanks for the information! Already signed up with my 60 GWF and my 60 TR. Can't wait to compare, hopefully my doom and gloom is unwarranted.
Well there goes my last reason for staying. Reducing TR Shocking Execution by 60%!! id friggen rediculous. Its means you now have to do a cookie cutter spec rather that have some flexibility in your spec. I've stuck with this game hoping it was going to be one that I can finally stick with for a long period of time but it looks as though it's just another WoW with constant nerfs and changes that will never let you settle into your character and get a rythm going. CYA I'm done.
I wish I never spent money buying the $59.99 Founders Pack.
Bring on Elder Scrolls online and Rift F2P.
dude read. there will be testing , none oh these goes live after is being tested
dude read. there will be testing , none oh these goes live after is being tested
Cryptic hardly ever changes anything after it's been ported onto a test server. It's set in stone unless it turns out something even more significant was broken somehow. What you see is what you get with this balance patch.
That being said, anyone that's done PvE content knows that the Rogue's bleed was OP when it ticked for more damage in one second than a GWF was able to put out in six seconds to grouped up add's. That was just the bleed not counting the actual dagger strikes.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
It looks like some others are coming to this conclusion as well, but it seems that much of the class balances in this patch are designed to incorporate GWF back into the game. First, GWF themselves are getting buffed, although not as much as I'd like, I think. Second, 3 classes have now been drastically reduced in effectiveness when bringing more than 1 to a party: CW because of RoE changes, TR due to bleed changes, and DC because of Astral Shield changes. So that gives a much larger incentive to bring a GWF instead of a duplicate TR/CW/DC.
The main problem I can see with this is that the GF is already the class with probably the greatest synergy to other GFs. GFs didn't receive any nerfs, in fact they were buffed very slightly. GFs, who are already borderline on being the very best class, might be pushed over the edge to being hands down the best class. People don't realize this because they don't play them, gear them, or spec them correctly, but I think GFs might emerge from this patch as unstoppable badasses. And this is coming from a former DC main who now plays a GF and has a fully geared GWF collecting dust.
Cryptic hardly ever changes anything after it's been ported onto a test server. It's set in stone unless it turns out something even more significant was broken somehow. What you see is what you get with this balance patch.
i dont know what will happen. But i know this, overall PVE group damage is nerfed to the ground with both TR and CW nerfs. For PvP hard to tell how its gonna affect group setups
I've stuck with this game hoping it was going to be one that I can finally stick with for a long period of time but it looks as though it's just another WoW with constant nerfs and changes that will never let you settle into your character and get a rythm going.
Yes and there are just as many people crying that they'll leave if changes aren't made.
That's why it's called B A L A N C E.
Feedback is needing during this period. Hence the creation of a preview/test server. I haven't seen an MMORPG that was in development where that rule was any different. If you want to take your feedback and walk out the door with it, that's your call. If you want everything to stay the same, come back later. Given your quoted wish above, you were nuts to sign up during the most tumultuous period of the game where balance is concerned.
And that's putting it nicely.
_
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
Shocking Execution nerf was certainly warranted, however, being mainly a PvP one-shot gank skill that we are all familiar with and thoroughly dislike.
You have never been oneshot by it. Its the only dependable skill to kill someting in PvP together with Lashing Blade and to some extent Cloud of Steel that only hits 10 times before its useless for 2 mins. Now 1 of the 2 skills are useless, TR will become so gimp in PvP.
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bzzzdMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
i dont know what will happen. But i know this, overall PVE group damage is nerfed to the ground with both TR and CW nerfs. For PvP hard to tell how its gonna affect group setups
just look at CO/STO. same modus operandi.
pvp people will adapt. "meta" and everything. pve was always b0rked, will still be. nothing new *shrug*
Need button is weird... I would rather like to see Need bind items on pickup.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis - RIFT
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kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
edited June 2013
The real problem here is what these nerfs do to endgame dungeons. All the bosses are just hitpoint bags and without the heavy damage that rogues can bring to the table some of these dungeons might well become impossible for the casual player. See Spider Temple for example...
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svearixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited June 2013
Well some fixes were good. Like only classes can roll need etc...some general buggs removed. But the nerf of the cleric wasnt cool. The best balanced class CW got nerf too...Well its always better to buff weaker classes than nerf the other classes...Feels like pvp and pve got mixed up here...Dunno if i want to play this game any more....
Jesus. I expected a CW nerf, but that's just... unnecessary. Like, rogues were barely touched. One move got a massive 60% nerf, yeah, but that's better than the perpetual nerf the CW received. You guys can keep NW, I'll be waiting for Wildstar. GG.
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druftiexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited June 2013
Some comments about the cleric changes.
Astral Seal: The healing from this power no longer tapers off more quickly than expected.
Does not really change anything when it comes to choosing your at-will's.
Astral Shield: Players may now only be affected by one instance of Astral Shield at a time.
Astral Shield: The healing from the Divine version of this power is now considered a Heal over Time for healing calculations.
Astral Shield: This power no longer incorrectly increases in duration with higher ranks.
Astral Shield: The shield circle will no longer sometimes disappear when projectiles pass over the center.
My only concern is, that the game might not consider a heal on time an actual heal coming from divine mode, hence not activating enduring relief. Other than that it's great that we can finally stop stacking clerics.
Divine Armor: Players may now only be affected by one instance of Divine Armor at a time.
Divine Armor: This power will now consistently affect all party members and the caster's own summoned Companion.
Divine Armor: This power no longer affects targets through walls.
Good change, but I doubt it will be used much now that you will be using just 1 cleric. Hallowed ground is superior in so many ways. You will most likely be just slotting it on the other daily in the place of flame strike on bosses for emergencies.
Divine Glow: Now has separate target limits for allies and enemies, rather than a shared total.
Divine Glow: The visual effects no longer scale up quite as much on larger enemies.
So it's basically still bugged and lowers your attack?
Prophecy of Doom: Adding ranks to this power no longer causes the Divine version to increase the target’s defense rather than reduce it.
Still not really viable to replace sunburst in AP generation as the bosses are packed with adds.
Sooth: Fixed issue where 2nd and 3rd ranks were tied to Holy Fervor rather than Sooth.
Not really sure sooth will be required if you have a decent gear, seeing as you can already solo heal every epic instance while tanking everything. With the changes to aggro generation and likely having a GF with you, this will likely not see much use.
Feat: Cleanse: The cleanse effect now has a 20-second cooldown whenever it removes a debuff.
Feat: Cleanse: When a player cleanses other targets, the player also now cleanses himself or herself.
Feat: Cleanse: The cleanse effect now only removes one debuff at a time.
Feat: Cleanse: The cleanse effect no longer removes the "recently died" debuff.
Have to say i really hate this. Seeing as the recently died lasts just 1 minute, should have been enough that cleanse is on 20 second cooldown. This change will likely kill 90% of the pug CN runs since scary things happen in those during draco. At least there should be some feat for some ability to remove the recently died somehow.
Feat: Ethereal Boon: This feat no longer gives twice the Divine Power as expected.
Might start seeing some other good dc specs now if the "fix" causes enough damage to the feat.
Feat: Focused Poise: The damage increase from this power has been improved.
Feat: Focused Poise: This feat now also increases Divine Power generated by Lance of Faith.
We will possibly start seeing some dps clerics in the future now that astrals won’t stack. Will be nice to see how much it actually got buffed.
Feat: Power of Oppression: This feat's effect can no longer stack several times.
As boss damage is nothing compared to add damage, not that strong feat. Also in kinda sucky place on the paragon tree.
Feat: Second Sight: This power now correctly heals party members for 5% of the damage dealt per rank, up from 2%.
Still does not make it a good skill compared to sunburst.
All in all, some interesting changes in clerics are coming and hopefully it will make healing something other than sitting in 2 astrals yawning when xx mobs smash you or running around 1 astral popping pots while they chase you.
I don't think anyone uses it in PvE and this change will pretty much guarantee that.
I use shocking execution in PvE. It works great on the bosses in epic dungeons especially when they're under half health. I use it my husband uses it several of our guild members use it as well. I could live with the nerf but yes I think 60% is a bit excessive.
Comments
The game goes live the 20th - the announcement was made - sure it doesn't change anything except the mind set - but at least it will be called LIVE
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ok its there now as an option....thx
What really bothers me is them nerfing Rogues' primary source of damage in PvE so much. Slower bleeds and only 10 stacks can be applied to 1 target. Bleeds not stacking individually is bad enough, but they had to go and do this to Rogues. Deadly Momentum nerf is another kick to our nuts.
Meanwhile in PvP, Shocking Execution nerfed to the ground. Sure, the damage is ridiculous right now and OP as f*ck, but 60%? They leave Wizards' Ice Knife in tact, which is basically a ranged version of Shocking Execution that can be dodged, but you only have 1 second to roll and pray lag / ping doesn't own you.
I don't know how I feel about these changes. Guess we'll have to play test it to find out. It just sucks that Rogues got the most and harshest nerfs. I wouldn't be too worried... except for the fact that Cryptic is going to release only 1 real class balancing patch in 2 months.
I wish I never spent money buying the $59.99 Founders Pack.
Bring on Elder Scrolls online and Rift F2P.
Based on your theory with such a heavy nerf on the CW damage perhaps you can tell me how they increased our control abilities then?
Without a damage based caster class in an MMO I wouldn't even play it and YES I understand that is just my opinion.
Astral Shield did not need to be "fixed", nor should it have been changed. It is by far the best cleric ability, and all other classes can stack their most powerful ability without limit. This change will make a group with 2 clerics completely pointless, whereas all other classes can have 2 per group without decreasing their functionality - in fact, often increasing it.
GWF buffs are unlikely to be enough to fix the class. I will reserve final judgment until I see how much Sure Strike and Wicked Strike damage were buffed by. Unless the damage reduction per mob hit was removed or significantly reduced, the entirety of the other changes will not compensate enough to make GWF viable. All the cooldown reductions are nice, but GWF encounters are already relatively weak and animate slowly, not to mention having cooldowns 5+ seconds longer than equivalent GF encounters. The reductions will need to be significant for this change to be adequate.
Lots of good changes aside from this, though. And, Astral Shield aside, at least this is progress.
Edit: A couple more things.
Rogues should not have had their bleed nerfed. Good rogues were able to consistently post top damage in PvE, and it should remain that way. Nerfing the number of bleed stacks per mob is very similar, in fact, to nerfing Astral Shield. Both cleric and rogue have their best ability nerfed to the point that having 2 of that class is detrimental. Hopefully that doesn't turn out to be the case with rogue, we will have to see how the bleed is affected.
Shocking Execution nerf was certainly warranted, however, being mainly a PvP one-shot gank skill that we are all familiar with and thoroughly dislike.
So all these changes are already up on Mimic? SWEET!!! I'm gonna go test em.
.... as soon as it patches lol
Oh yeah, and to all the haters who do nothing but spread your cynicism and doubt, bite my shiny metal shield!
June 20th, in your face! Beholitches!
Edit: I wonder what a "beholitch" would look like....
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
fall dmg doesnt work everywhere afaik
dude read. there will be testing , none oh these goes live after is being tested
Cryptic hardly ever changes anything after it's been ported onto a test server. It's set in stone unless it turns out something even more significant was broken somehow. What you see is what you get with this balance patch.
That being said, anyone that's done PvE content knows that the Rogue's bleed was OP when it ticked for more damage in one second than a GWF was able to put out in six seconds to grouped up add's. That was just the bleed not counting the actual dagger strikes.
It looks like some others are coming to this conclusion as well, but it seems that much of the class balances in this patch are designed to incorporate GWF back into the game. First, GWF themselves are getting buffed, although not as much as I'd like, I think. Second, 3 classes have now been drastically reduced in effectiveness when bringing more than 1 to a party: CW because of RoE changes, TR due to bleed changes, and DC because of Astral Shield changes. So that gives a much larger incentive to bring a GWF instead of a duplicate TR/CW/DC.
The main problem I can see with this is that the GF is already the class with probably the greatest synergy to other GFs. GFs didn't receive any nerfs, in fact they were buffed very slightly. GFs, who are already borderline on being the very best class, might be pushed over the edge to being hands down the best class. People don't realize this because they don't play them, gear them, or spec them correctly, but I think GFs might emerge from this patch as unstoppable badasses. And this is coming from a former DC main who now plays a GF and has a fully geared GWF collecting dust.
i dont know what will happen. But i know this, overall PVE group damage is nerfed to the ground with both TR and CW nerfs. For PvP hard to tell how its gonna affect group setups
Yes and there are just as many people crying that they'll leave if changes aren't made.
That's why it's called B A L A N C E.
Feedback is needing during this period. Hence the creation of a preview/test server. I haven't seen an MMORPG that was in development where that rule was any different. If you want to take your feedback and walk out the door with it, that's your call. If you want everything to stay the same, come back later. Given your quoted wish above, you were nuts to sign up during the most tumultuous period of the game where balance is concerned.
And that's putting it nicely.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
You have never been oneshot by it. Its the only dependable skill to kill someting in PvP together with Lashing Blade and to some extent Cloud of Steel that only hits 10 times before its useless for 2 mins. Now 1 of the 2 skills are useless, TR will become so gimp in PvP.
just look at CO/STO. same modus operandi.
pvp people will adapt. "meta" and everything. pve was always b0rked, will still be. nothing new *shrug*
+1 for this and for heal threat. I may brush the dust off my cleric!
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Astral Seal: The healing from this power no longer tapers off more quickly than expected.
Does not really change anything when it comes to choosing your at-will's.
Astral Shield: Players may now only be affected by one instance of Astral Shield at a time.
Astral Shield: The healing from the Divine version of this power is now considered a Heal over Time for healing calculations.
Astral Shield: This power no longer incorrectly increases in duration with higher ranks.
Astral Shield: The shield circle will no longer sometimes disappear when projectiles pass over the center.
My only concern is, that the game might not consider a heal on time an actual heal coming from divine mode, hence not activating enduring relief. Other than that it's great that we can finally stop stacking clerics.
Divine Armor: Players may now only be affected by one instance of Divine Armor at a time.
Divine Armor: This power will now consistently affect all party members and the caster's own summoned Companion.
Divine Armor: This power no longer affects targets through walls.
Good change, but I doubt it will be used much now that you will be using just 1 cleric. Hallowed ground is superior in so many ways. You will most likely be just slotting it on the other daily in the place of flame strike on bosses for emergencies.
Divine Glow: Now has separate target limits for allies and enemies, rather than a shared total.
Divine Glow: The visual effects no longer scale up quite as much on larger enemies.
So it's basically still bugged and lowers your attack?
Prophecy of Doom: Adding ranks to this power no longer causes the Divine version to increase the target’s defense rather than reduce it.
Still not really viable to replace sunburst in AP generation as the bosses are packed with adds.
Sooth: Fixed issue where 2nd and 3rd ranks were tied to Holy Fervor rather than Sooth.
Not really sure sooth will be required if you have a decent gear, seeing as you can already solo heal every epic instance while tanking everything. With the changes to aggro generation and likely having a GF with you, this will likely not see much use.
Feat: Cleanse: The cleanse effect now has a 20-second cooldown whenever it removes a debuff.
Feat: Cleanse: When a player cleanses other targets, the player also now cleanses himself or herself.
Feat: Cleanse: The cleanse effect now only removes one debuff at a time.
Feat: Cleanse: The cleanse effect no longer removes the "recently died" debuff.
Have to say i really hate this. Seeing as the recently died lasts just 1 minute, should have been enough that cleanse is on 20 second cooldown. This change will likely kill 90% of the pug CN runs since scary things happen in those during draco. At least there should be some feat for some ability to remove the recently died somehow.
Feat: Ethereal Boon: This feat no longer gives twice the Divine Power as expected.
Might start seeing some other good dc specs now if the "fix" causes enough damage to the feat.
Feat: Focused Poise: The damage increase from this power has been improved.
Feat: Focused Poise: This feat now also increases Divine Power generated by Lance of Faith.
We will possibly start seeing some dps clerics in the future now that astrals won’t stack. Will be nice to see how much it actually got buffed.
Feat: Power of Oppression: This feat's effect can no longer stack several times.
As boss damage is nothing compared to add damage, not that strong feat. Also in kinda sucky place on the paragon tree.
Feat: Second Sight: This power now correctly heals party members for 5% of the damage dealt per rank, up from 2%.
Still does not make it a good skill compared to sunburst.
All in all, some interesting changes in clerics are coming and hopefully it will make healing something other than sitting in 2 astrals yawning when xx mobs smash you or running around 1 astral popping pots while they chase you.
I use shocking execution in PvE. It works great on the bosses in epic dungeons especially when they're under half health. I use it my husband uses it several of our guild members use it as well. I could live with the nerf but yes I think 60% is a bit excessive.
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