Kill 4 bosses, and you have a 1% chance of getting an enchant.
Play the game long enough and you will get all the stuff you could ever want.
Or don't play the game, and cry all over the forums like a little ***** about not having all the stuff you want.
Your choice.
Good luck with that method of your and your 1% enchant rate though. If you are lucky, it will take you one years to grind and get your max enchantment.
I'd be cool with it if they just removed the ability to fuse the things without wards. Sure you can technically obtain them without paying...for a 1% chance hurhur. Really let's face it you need to cough up cash for these things, and that's ok (the exact pricing however...) but it shouldn't be said you can fuse these enchantments as is. 1% is not a realistic odd.
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asashiroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
What does it matter when you yourself do not have to pay a single cent to be able to get the item? Put in some !@#$ effort. 'but, wards cost 10$' Guess what? That's not the only way to get them. 7 day ardent coins, completely free. Can be done on as many characters and accounts that you can be bothered with. Free. Buying from other players. Free. There's no shortage of these wards, given that they can possibly be gotten completely free every 7 days and the decent chance to get one from a lockbox, many of these wards are on the auction house for well less than 1/3 of what it would cost in zen. What do you spend with on the AH? Diamonds. Diamonds can be earned for free.
Can this game be p2w? Yes. Is it? No. Everything... Everything! Can be gotten for free. Someone might have paid actual money for it, but that someone does not have to be you. At worst this game is pay for convenience.
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kasuhariMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
What does it matter when you yourself do not have to pay a single cent to be able to get the item? Put in some !@#$ effort. 'but, wards cost 10$' Guess what? That's not the only way to get them. 7 day ardent coins, completely free. Can be done on as many characters and accounts that you can be bothered with. Free. Buying from other players. Free. There's no shortage of these wards, given that they can possibly be gotten completely free every 7 days and the decent chance to get one from a lockbox, many of these wards are on the auction house for well less than 1/3 of what it would cost in zen. What do you spend with on the AH? Diamonds. Diamonds can be earned for free.
Can this game be p2w? Yes. Is it? No. Everything... Everything! Can be gotten for free. Someone might have paid actual money for it, but that someone does not have to be you. At worst this game is pay for convenience.
Oh please those 7 day Arden coin always get you a green ward most of the time and rarely the blue one. Your best chance is to shell out $10 to get the blue shard. You would need 200k AD for each shard and even an absurd amount of AD for one enchant. No one can grind that much AD in a short period of time because AD you are limited to how many per day. You can run Instance to sale the Epic Gear, but good luck even getting any or even finishing it with a PUG.
To completely enchant all your gears, it take millions and millions of AD, so no it's not pay for convenience, it doesn't get any pay to win then this when it would take one person 2 weeks or more to farm for one enchant when it take the other person who pay the cash less then 5 minutes to enchant with 100% success rate. The amount of AD required for one enchant is just way too high right now. They are doing this so people would give in and buy it.
Good luck with that method of your and your 1% enchant rate though. If you are lucky, it will take you one years to grind and get your max enchantment.
1% of success means 99% of failure.
So how many fuse will you need in average to have say, 50% chance success over all the fuse to have had a result ?
0.5=(0.99)^x=exp(x.ln(0.99)) implies ln(0.5)/ln(0.99)=x So x=68 about.
That means after 68 tries of fusing you have 50% chance of having had somewhen a successfully fused enchantment (ETA : I do not mean by the 68th tries, but among those 68 tries you will have had overall a 50/50 chance of having been successful somewhen).
At what point will you have had quasi certain success ? Say 99% chance of fusing ? That means
1% residual chance of failing which means X2=ln(0.01)/ln(0.99)=460
Now everybody trying by normal means without wards or anything, will have 1% chance of never getting anything
whatsoever within 460 tries, and half of those trying will reach success within ~68 tries.
I dunno how long it takes to get those shard, but 70 does not seem to take "years", at once per day, it takes 2 month and a half for half the population to get one.
That said, it seems to be quite a long and boring grind.
I wholeheartedly disagree. It would be much more satisfying paying a monthly fee, and earning the items through gameplay rather than just buying, or even worse gambling for them. Which is just plain stupid imho.
Good luck with that method of your and your 1% enchant rate though. If you are lucky, it will take you one years to grind and get your max enchantment.
-You run 10 dungeons per day with 3 bosses per dungeon.
-Each boss drops exact the shard you need, and you win it (1 in 4 * 1 in 5 chance tho actually)
-1% chance means = 100 tries (Even tho it's more)
A perfect enchantment needs 4^4 shards, if we assume you will get 30 shards per day, that means 1 lesser takes 3 basic shards + 100 for our assumption, it would take around 3 days to get one lesser.
Normal: 3 days for one lesser = 12 days for one normal enchantment. So you need 192 days to get one normal enchantment this way.
Greater: 192 days mean you need again 412 normal enchantments which would mean 79104 days (Implying you won't use wards lol) for one greater enchantment.
Perfect: 79104 for one greater so we need again 412 greater enchantments which would mean 32590848 days for one perfect... Implying your chance would be as great as we assumed.
Conclusion: If we assume a Human being would be able to play average 80 years in his life you need at least 1116 people to farm shards for you. Or around 9000 years. OVER 9000!
admanteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
You people are completely unknowledgeable about this game. Coalescent wards are obtained through other methods than buying them straight out from the zen store. There's a reason they only cost about 100k in AH before the exploit happened. If you bought it for 1k zen, you're an idiot and I have no sympathy for you overspending.
I don't get why people are basing you ability to buy things with ad with the rough ad refining as the main or only source of income. Aside from all the crazy the 1% is FINE/BROKEN, I simply want to correct you in the fact that rough ad is only meant to replenish ad sunk from the auction house in the game, and in end game, is an absolutely worthless source of income, and it will never ever be one. There is a large pool of ad in the system, and some of it goes away when the ah or the ad shop is used. Some of it comes back from rough ad refining. That's all it is, that's all its for. So the idea that you would need to farm at a rate of 24kad a day everyday to make the 100k ad to get your ward is absurd. If the wards do matter tho, and you are playing, you can probably get a ward a day or so by playing the game, and using the ah to get ad from that big pool of ad that exist in the game. A good source of income is all the other items, than can easily obtained and sold for fair amounts of ad, say 5-40k.
As for pray2win, you yourself might not get one every seven days, you can bet your *** that someone else will, and then there are the $10 dollar wards from the zen market, and wards from the boxes, and wards from trading in bars. That's a lot of wards coming from different directions. There are a lot of sources of wards. That is why , if you haven't noticed, the price for a 1.25 dollar key in ad is ~40k ad, but 10 dollar ward is only 100k, and that's because there are so many out there and they are readily available and not hard to obtain unless you never use the ah, never pvp, and never trade gold.
You would have to go out of you own way to have problems getting enchantments. But I'm talking lesser and mid grade enchants. Not Perfect enchants mind you. Enchants are the end game of end game content, anyone even taking into consideration the amount of time and effort it takes to get a perfect enchant is way out of perspective, because you can probably count with your fingers how many perfect vorpal enchant exist in the game, and the people who have them have either sold their arms and legs, or someone else's arms and legs, and that a problem that is beyond the world of games. The other people who own them have spent a lot of time and effort to get there. So if its really hard, so be it, they earned it and not ever scrub who whines on the forums should get a slice of perfect, and even greater enchants. So if you aren't knee deep in t2 armor in the middle of end game, you shouldn't worry about it, get a lesser, have a good day. In fact, with my t1(or t0.5 some might say) armor and my t4 enchants that I've picked up, in the time I was reading this forum, and writing this post, I could have farmed up a lesser enchant(should I want one, and I don't need or want need one that badly). Same for everyone here who to busy trying to prove a point.
The Wards are overprice like everything in the CS, they need to lower prices or have weekly sales, cause $10 for a ward is ludicrous I don't mine spending money but I'll be dam to spend money on something thats overpriced, games and retail related.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "A sin is a terrible burden to bare, Remdemption is the only solution."
This is what is called a dead-end mechanic. That is a mechanic that is designed to get you invested in a something and them keep you from continuing without meeting special criteria, in this case forking over money. So your choices are to throw away all the time and effort you have spent on something so far or drop real money on it to keep going.
It used to be used in games to keep people from finishing quests too quickly; the quests would morph from solo content into group content and then raid content along the same quest line. But players really didn’t like this and it fell out of favor.
Now it is a mainstay of cash grab marketing games to lure you into some aspect of their game play and then charge you to keep going.
its still just as easy, you just gotta pay $10 per try.
I believe some people got the wrong impression of what OP was trying to say. He wasnt complaining because it was hard to enhance that 1% stuff, but because its NOT doable without $10 cash shop item. They could have made it 30% success rate, and that would actually make it 'harder' to get those uber items. At the same time they could still have blue wards in cash shop, which could raise your enhance chances to lets say 50%-60%.
But instead pwe decided to make a mandatory $10 per pop cash shop item. Its a no brainer really, they might as well make it 0% and it wouldnt change a thing, you would absolutely need that ward regardless. On a bright side, at least its not something expensive, for just 80$ you could slot 8 items (thats if you dont upgrade them further), which is a steal imo.
tldr: basically its a neverending circle of upgrades, where every next step costs $10.
I doubt people would complain that much if it was one time thing, but this what they have come up with reminds me of allods runes system, where only thing thats stopping people from upgrading is its price (further you go, it gets exponentially more expensive).
Ok i just did the math. My maths show me that if the 1% chance of success was changed to 0%, there would be a significantly less success rate. With a 1% chance you can do it, with a 0% chance you cannot. Maths done, mission complete.
Ok i just did the math. My maths show me that if the 1% chance of success was changed to 0%, there would be a significantly less success rate. With a 1% chance you can do it, with a 0% chance you cannot. Maths done, mission complete.
With a 1% chance you can probably do it in a couple of years, when whatever you were trying to enchant doesnt even matter anymore. And that's the 2nd most optimistic look at it.
the most optimistic look is that you'd be the one chosen one that got so immensely lucky that it worked. While anyone else wouldnt be crazy enough to use it as is in the first place and waste it.
I read these same threads on every forum for every F2P game I've ever played. Why do people keep being suprised/upset by this? This game is a product made by a business to make real world money. They are going to push all of us to shell out cash for this game as much as they can without actually chasing people away. Some methods will be subtle, some won't. Deal with it.
You pretty much needs to buy a coalescent ward $10 bucks to fuse a weapon enchantment. Yah money grab! TBH the price should be lowered to something like $2-3 bucks.
God the fanboys really have absolutely zero objectivity don't they?
Yes you can buy it off the AH for some inflated cost, or pray every every day for a week for the CHANCE at one (really think about who asinine this one is, please.)
But the fact remains obvious to literally anyone not married to the game. The chance of success is ONE PERCENT. Just to force you to use a cash shop item. That's WRONG, and its not that you fail to understand that. It's that you willfully refuse to care. I like this game a lot too, but ****.
Cash shops should be there to enhance the experience. Not act as a requirement.
They could easily make money by simply selling cosmetics and services. Instead we get cheap money grab on top of money grab, and all because PWE is running the shots. there is earning money the respectful way, and then there is gouging. So far, Cryptic has an awesome game, actively being hindered by greedy marketers.
I'm going to venture a guess that when a lot of people like you are older you would be able to come back to a thread like this and think "Wow, I really did get upset about silly things back then..." Using the term "requirement" to describe an enchant in a game where the enchant will increase your capabilities perhaps a few percentiles and where the enchant is not a necessity for any content in the game shows a stark, stark disconnect from reality, and a *ridiculous* sense of entitlement.
Let me guess... Young man, early 20's, perhaps teens, living at home or a university dorm? I'm sure you'll tell us you're a CEO for a fortune 500 company or some such, but we both know that you cried a little on the inside when you read that question.
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admanteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Repeat:
Coalescent wards are not cash shop exclusive nor are they worth $10. Stop pretending like it's all a big conspiracy. They want you to spend money sure, but this is one thing that they did right. You can overspend and get it instantly, buy for a lower price in AH, or even earn it through in game means. I'm not a fan of pay to win either but this is one of the better implemented aspects of the cash shop.
If you actually play the game and know what the AH is, I expect you to shut up about "they force us to pay $10 for a ward."
Repeat:
Coalescent wards are not cash shop exclusive nor are they worth $10. Stop pretending like it's all a big conspiracy. They want you to spend money sure, but this is one thing that they did right. You can overspend and get it instantly, buy for a lower price in AH, or even earn it through in game means. I'm not a fan of pay to win either but this is one of the better implemented aspects of the cash shop.
If you actually play the game and know what the AH is, I expect you to shut up about "they force us to pay $10 for a ward."
Why go do things in the game to get a ward when they could better spend their time sobbing on the forums?
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derresshMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
You pretty much needs to buy a coalescent ward $10 bucks to fuse a weapon enchantment. Yah money grab! TBH the price should be lowered to something like $2-3 bucks.
Spend $2-3 on keys and buy one from someone in zone chat.
Or you could buy $15 worth of Zen every month to support the game. DO not pay, expect to have to work twice as hard to aquire things others do via paying for. Still doesn't make it P2W, its P4C (Pay for Convience).
Or you can pay 10 dollars, get 4 char slots, level them to 11, invoke every day and have 6 40% shots a week to get a ward.
I imagine they're like that because they don't want every basement dweller and his anime figurines decked out in over-the-top enchantments in 3 weeks max. I'd rather they didn't put them in the game in the first place. It's such a typically unimaginative way for a F2P company to keep people playing or paying, it's on the same level as those massive glowy enchanted weapons in other games that you have a .00x% to get without paying a hefty sum. Totally obnoxious.
er, No. theyre like that because they know selfsaid "basement dweller" is the sort of person most likely to willingly fork over 1500 dollars to gear out all their characters in 1337 epix
does the america force children play neverwinter? why is does the unhappy made to play neverwinter?
we dont. But hey, if you dont want us trying to convince cryptic their game is currently priced in a way that only an idiot would pay them money and save you a few dollars, feel welcome to white knight it up.
Comments
Good luck with that method of your and your 1% enchant rate though. If you are lucky, it will take you one years to grind and get your max enchantment.
Can this game be p2w? Yes. Is it? No. Everything... Everything! Can be gotten for free. Someone might have paid actual money for it, but that someone does not have to be you. At worst this game is pay for convenience.
Oh please those 7 day Arden coin always get you a green ward most of the time and rarely the blue one. Your best chance is to shell out $10 to get the blue shard. You would need 200k AD for each shard and even an absurd amount of AD for one enchant. No one can grind that much AD in a short period of time because AD you are limited to how many per day. You can run Instance to sale the Epic Gear, but good luck even getting any or even finishing it with a PUG.
To completely enchant all your gears, it take millions and millions of AD, so no it's not pay for convenience, it doesn't get any pay to win then this when it would take one person 2 weeks or more to farm for one enchant when it take the other person who pay the cash less then 5 minutes to enchant with 100% success rate. The amount of AD required for one enchant is just way too high right now. They are doing this so people would give in and buy it.
1% of success means 99% of failure.
So how many fuse will you need in average to have say, 50% chance success over all the fuse to have had a result ?
0.5=(0.99)^x=exp(x.ln(0.99)) implies ln(0.5)/ln(0.99)=x So x=68 about.
That means after 68 tries of fusing you have 50% chance of having had somewhen a successfully fused enchantment (ETA : I do not mean by the 68th tries, but among those 68 tries you will have had overall a 50/50 chance of having been successful somewhen).
At what point will you have had quasi certain success ? Say 99% chance of fusing ? That means
1% residual chance of failing which means X2=ln(0.01)/ln(0.99)=460
Now everybody trying by normal means without wards or anything, will have 1% chance of never getting anything
whatsoever within 460 tries, and half of those trying will reach success within ~68 tries.
I dunno how long it takes to get those shard, but 70 does not seem to take "years", at once per day, it takes 2 month and a half for half the population to get one.
That said, it seems to be quite a long and boring grind.
Ok, so we've done basic fusing.
Now...you can fuse THOSE up one level. And those can then be fused up another level. Same % fail rate.
So it's the exact same math again, applied multiplicatively. Woo exponentials.
Max Enchantment:
4 shards = 1 lesser, 4 lesser = 1 normal, 4 normal = 1 greater, 4 greater = 1 perfect
Let's assume the following:
-You run 10 dungeons per day with 3 bosses per dungeon.
-Each boss drops exact the shard you need, and you win it (1 in 4 * 1 in 5 chance tho actually)
-1% chance means = 100 tries (Even tho it's more)
A perfect enchantment needs 4^4 shards, if we assume you will get 30 shards per day, that means 1 lesser takes 3 basic shards + 100 for our assumption, it would take around 3 days to get one lesser.
Normal: 3 days for one lesser = 12 days for one normal enchantment. So you need 192 days to get one normal enchantment this way.
Greater: 192 days mean you need again 412 normal enchantments which would mean 79104 days (Implying you won't use wards lol) for one greater enchantment.
Perfect: 79104 for one greater so we need again 412 greater enchantments which would mean 32590848 days for one perfect... Implying your chance would be as great as we assumed.
Conclusion: If we assume a Human being would be able to play average 80 years in his life you need at least 1116 people to farm shards for you. Or around 9000 years. OVER 9000!
And even this is low.
1- Pay2Win
2- Pray2Win
3- Play2Win
As for pray2win, you yourself might not get one every seven days, you can bet your *** that someone else will, and then there are the $10 dollar wards from the zen market, and wards from the boxes, and wards from trading in bars. That's a lot of wards coming from different directions. There are a lot of sources of wards. That is why , if you haven't noticed, the price for a 1.25 dollar key in ad is ~40k ad, but 10 dollar ward is only 100k, and that's because there are so many out there and they are readily available and not hard to obtain unless you never use the ah, never pvp, and never trade gold.
You would have to go out of you own way to have problems getting enchantments. But I'm talking lesser and mid grade enchants. Not Perfect enchants mind you. Enchants are the end game of end game content, anyone even taking into consideration the amount of time and effort it takes to get a perfect enchant is way out of perspective, because you can probably count with your fingers how many perfect vorpal enchant exist in the game, and the people who have them have either sold their arms and legs, or someone else's arms and legs, and that a problem that is beyond the world of games. The other people who own them have spent a lot of time and effort to get there. So if its really hard, so be it, they earned it and not ever scrub who whines on the forums should get a slice of perfect, and even greater enchants. So if you aren't knee deep in t2 armor in the middle of end game, you shouldn't worry about it, get a lesser, have a good day. In fact, with my t1(or t0.5 some might say) armor and my t4 enchants that I've picked up, in the time I was reading this forum, and writing this post, I could have farmed up a lesser enchant(should I want one, and I don't need or want need one that badly). Same for everyone here who to busy trying to prove a point.
"A sin is a terrible burden to bare, Remdemption is the only solution."
It used to be used in games to keep people from finishing quests too quickly; the quests would morph from solo content into group content and then raid content along the same quest line. But players really didn’t like this and it fell out of favor.
Now it is a mainstay of cash grab marketing games to lure you into some aspect of their game play and then charge you to keep going.
Perhaps you could call it a cash tease?
Ok i just did the math. My maths show me that if the 1% chance of success was changed to 0%, there would be a significantly less success rate. With a 1% chance you can do it, with a 0% chance you cannot. Maths done, mission complete.
With a 1% chance you can probably do it in a couple of years, when whatever you were trying to enchant doesnt even matter anymore. And that's the 2nd most optimistic look at it.
the most optimistic look is that you'd be the one chosen one that got so immensely lucky that it worked. While anyone else wouldnt be crazy enough to use it as is in the first place and waste it.
I am sure PWE is laughing themselves silly.
You have to admit it is a brilliant system. Let people work on their characters until they are heavily invested then pull the rug out from under them.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I'm going to venture a guess that when a lot of people like you are older you would be able to come back to a thread like this and think "Wow, I really did get upset about silly things back then..." Using the term "requirement" to describe an enchant in a game where the enchant will increase your capabilities perhaps a few percentiles and where the enchant is not a necessity for any content in the game shows a stark, stark disconnect from reality, and a *ridiculous* sense of entitlement.
Let me guess... Young man, early 20's, perhaps teens, living at home or a university dorm? I'm sure you'll tell us you're a CEO for a fortune 500 company or some such, but we both know that you cried a little on the inside when you read that question.
Coalescent wards are not cash shop exclusive nor are they worth $10. Stop pretending like it's all a big conspiracy. They want you to spend money sure, but this is one thing that they did right. You can overspend and get it instantly, buy for a lower price in AH, or even earn it through in game means. I'm not a fan of pay to win either but this is one of the better implemented aspects of the cash shop.
If you actually play the game and know what the AH is, I expect you to shut up about "they force us to pay $10 for a ward."
Why go do things in the game to get a ward when they could better spend their time sobbing on the forums?
Spend $2-3 on keys and buy one from someone in zone chat.
Or you can pay 10 dollars, get 4 char slots, level them to 11, invoke every day and have 6 40% shots a week to get a ward.
er, No. theyre like that because they know selfsaid "basement dweller" is the sort of person most likely to willingly fork over 1500 dollars to gear out all their characters in 1337 epix
Yeah, because its all americans doing the complaining right? There are a few different ways on this forum to see this is incorrect, by a long shot.
we dont. But hey, if you dont want us trying to convince cryptic their game is currently priced in a way that only an idiot would pay them money and save you a few dollars, feel welcome to white knight it up.