LOL humm EQ, EQ2, Conan, Rifts, AION, Atlantica, Warhammer, Guild Wars... better question how many started with only 5. That will be much harder one to answer.
Cihuacoatl sums up quite a few, it seems... Imagine that, Ausdoerrt?
And also add the fact that this is a self-proclaimed Dungeons & Dragons game, where the Classes (and kits/sub-classes/epic-classes whatever) play a HUGE part of the game's structure, and more importantly, it's appeal to many players. This is partly, in my opinion, directly shown in the massive success stories that were Baldurs Gate 1+2, Icewind Dale 1+2, Neverwinter Nights 1+2, and so on (altho not being MMOs, it still apply to a degree).
Waving the DnD-flag? Better back it up, Cryptic, or its not that far from false advertising, from an ethical stand point.
0
thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Buff my dps GF more please, I'll start outdpsing people by 20M on CN
Either you've unlocked some magic that no one else has or (more likely) you're playing with bad players or (perhaps even more likely) you're not being honest.
Either you've unlocked some magic that no one else has or (more likely) you're playing with bad players or (perhaps even more likely) you're not being honest.
I'm playing with top top players in mindflayer. I outdps everyone by 5-10M up to dracolich, then the CW who spams shield burst and pushes 24 million mobs off the edge obviously gets ahead. My build is optimized, my gear is optimized, my play is optimized. Dps GF is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Highest AoE by far, second highest single target after rogue (and it's not that far off either on non-stationary bosses).
I agree on the fight mechanics. Bosses need unique interesting attacks. Hell id even stand for a long "wind up" attack that will 1 shot people in the red... Give each boss an attack like that... There are SO many cool ideas you could add to each boss fight, even if you gave 1 unique powerful attack to watch out for on each fight it would be notable.
"reduce the quantity and increase quality of adds/mobs" - agree 100%
0
ianwrymMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited June 2013
TL;DR, this game is just here to hold people over until The Elder Scrolls Online comes out. Then this will just be another shut-down Ghost Town.
0
teslapawnsedisonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
Please show me your screenshots of at-level Mad Dragon and Grey Wolf den, done in a pug.
They are difficult.
They are fun.
I don't agree all other mmos are vastly better. AQ, AC, DaOC, Age of Conan, Warhammer, and DDOs (I could go on) boss fights are a joke compared to this.
Only mmo i've seen them done better was TERA, and only some of them.
re: 2nd poster: I like the endgame.
A rather short endgame is still and endgame imo. Yea it's not much content, but it's a brand new mmo, compared to other brand new mmos, I feel its not an unreasonable amount.
I guess some players may define an endgame has "tons of content to do at the end". And well NW will get there some day, expecting it all for the open beta launch isn't reasonable.
(the basics of your post of "buff fighters" I do completely agree with, however many other threads have outlined the issues far more eloquently already).
DDO boss fights are a joke? - That's where I stopped reading...
Seriously, tell me you did Warforged Titan at level when it first came out? How long before you completed the Abbot at level? Sure jumping into these dungeons at level 20 they become a joke, but most of the raid dungeons (at level) are harder then anything this game as to offer.
Also they're more fun...(at least in the beginning. Doing the Mastermind puzzle for your hundredth time can get pretty old.)
0
caverndragonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 27Arc User
Never said other MMOs are vastly better, I think most of them are bad these days but this one has been a real stinker for me. I've done at level mad dragon and grey wolf. Grey wolf isn't hard, you can literally run around in circles kiting the adds while people kill boss, I did that on my CW, DC, and GF while leveling. Same for Mad Dragon, minus the kiting, CW can manage adds with cc (singularity, shield, entangling force, chill strike, etc. etc. etc.) and as long as everyone hops off the boss to deal with the big add that spawns near the end, it's cake, long, add filled, red circle cake.
And if you read further, these boss fights are bad because they lack substance. There's no mechanics to them, it's just adds and don't stand in red circles. Bosses don't do anything interesting or unique in this game, it's just red circle and adds. Every single one of them.
and why would I have screen shots of that? It's not an accomplishment. There isn't a single boss in this game that I think killing would be worthy of merit. These are bland, uninspired, lazily designed fights.
thanks for playing, can I have your stuff...
If it moves, KILL IT!
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
This is a rant thread and these are my opinions (PVE)
Class Imbalance
That being said, I feel like this game is fundamentally flawed. Of the five classes, only three are useful and the best groups are ones that involve class stacking (2 TR, 2 DC, CW) The fighter class has no role whatsoever, both of them are weak. There is nothing that the fighter classes brings to the table that another class doesn't do better. GF doesn't tank, even good GFs that know how to keep aggro can only keep aggro on a small number of mobs which is laughable considering the entire end game revolves around tons of adds while a CW can manage the adds much better (and actually kill them while they're at it) and for the increasingly popular DPS GF (is that a joke?) there's no reason to bring a GF over a TR. Even in terms of tanking, there really isn't a point to GF since they're completely eclipsed by double shield from DCs which makes everyone a tank regardless of class. GWF's only merit is their AOE damage and that gets blown out of the water by CW, their control is pretty much nonexistant and their single target DPS is absolutely terrible.
Class imbalance issue you detail is the most pressing though it may also be affected by the dungeon design issue or compounding it... Hard to tell when you have basically a DPS rush with 2 rogues, 2 clerics and a wizard without any of the traditional dungeon design elements.
0
wangwong1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited June 2013
As I said, I feel it's both and it's why the game has such a major flaw. Class balancing needs to be done in the context of current content and that's why they both need to be changed. Dungeon design is a mess and class balancing suffers for it mechanically. You can put bandaids on it and buff dps but it won't change the mechanical problems of roles classes should be fulfilling within dungeons. This of course affects GF the most currently since they have an intended role of tanking that is completely obsolete and borderline impossible due to the sheer number of adds and their ability hit caps.
Unless some major changes are done to both the dungeon design and the class mechanics as far as their intended roles are going, the game is always going to be strung out on bland, overzealous adds and minimal boss mechanics.
Comments
"Jeebus! When was the last time you saw an MMO launch with that many classes?!"
Cihuacoatl sums up quite a few, it seems... Imagine that, Ausdoerrt?
And also add the fact that this is a self-proclaimed Dungeons & Dragons game, where the Classes (and kits/sub-classes/epic-classes whatever) play a HUGE part of the game's structure, and more importantly, it's appeal to many players. This is partly, in my opinion, directly shown in the massive success stories that were Baldurs Gate 1+2, Icewind Dale 1+2, Neverwinter Nights 1+2, and so on (altho not being MMOs, it still apply to a degree).
Waving the DnD-flag? Better back it up, Cryptic, or its not that far from false advertising, from an ethical stand point.
Either you've unlocked some magic that no one else has or (more likely) you're playing with bad players or (perhaps even more likely) you're not being honest.
I'm playing with top top players in mindflayer. I outdps everyone by 5-10M up to dracolich, then the CW who spams shield burst and pushes 24 million mobs off the edge obviously gets ahead. My build is optimized, my gear is optimized, my play is optimized. Dps GF is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Highest AoE by far, second highest single target after rogue (and it's not that far off either on non-stationary bosses).
"reduce the quantity and increase quality of adds/mobs" - agree 100%
DDO boss fights are a joke? - That's where I stopped reading...
Seriously, tell me you did Warforged Titan at level when it first came out? How long before you completed the Abbot at level? Sure jumping into these dungeons at level 20 they become a joke, but most of the raid dungeons (at level) are harder then anything this game as to offer.
Also they're more fun...(at least in the beginning. Doing the Mastermind puzzle for your hundredth time can get pretty old.)
thanks for playing, can I have your stuff...
Half of them literally stand still the entire time you fight them.
I'm sorry, but that games combat is lame as hell.
Class imbalance issue you detail is the most pressing though it may also be affected by the dungeon design issue or compounding it... Hard to tell when you have basically a DPS rush with 2 rogues, 2 clerics and a wizard without any of the traditional dungeon design elements.
Unless some major changes are done to both the dungeon design and the class mechanics as far as their intended roles are going, the game is always going to be strung out on bland, overzealous adds and minimal boss mechanics.