^ hahaha omg. So say you have ... 500 defense. 20% of defense into power gives you 100 power... 100/25 = 4. FOUR weapon damage for 5 feat points. And to have 500 defense you need to be around level 40+... Wow. That is total garbage lmao. Too bad Constitution Focus is also useless! Welp, looks like Fast Runner and Grit are the next choices.
2.3k defense at 10k GS so its more like 230 power, But other than that, point is there is no other feat dps wise. You will pick Unstoppable Action ,Discipline of strength and Endless Assault.
Your only options to get further at that point will be either
Toughness (9% hit points , 3points),
Armor Specialization (15% AC and armor class, 3points) ,
Fast runner (15% decrease stamina while sprinting, 5 points),
Consitution focus (15% consitution, 3 points) or
Grit (3% hp when healed 40sec cd, 3 points)
so either pick a utility one from the above, or Steely defence that will synergize even better at higher gear. Dont know the exact number in high gear, but i will take a rough guess at around 3k (t2+ rank 7 gems). This will be 300 extra Power, or an extra rank 7 power gem over some health,defense, or stamina bonus .
((((Abilitybasemindmg+(MinWepDmg+(Power/25))*Scaling)+(Abilitybasemaxdmg+(MaxWepDmg+(Power/25))*Scaling))/2)*(1+(Feats%+(Strength-10)+CA%)*,01))*(1+(Arp%*,01)
you guys are making it way more complicated that it needs to be:
power/25 = wep dmg
All abilities have a wepdmg coefficient of scaling, for example Knee Break has a 5.0 coefficient which means 1 Wep dmg (25 power) = 5 dmg.
Does this really work for fighters? It certainly doesn't for Wizards. I've got a bunch of abilities that get less than power/25 = weapon damage, one that gives more, several that don't scale at all with power and one ability that's getting diminishing returns from power. Only one of my abilities works with your formula....maybe Wizards are just mental.
2.3k defense at 10k GS so its more like 230 power, But other than that, point is there is no other feat dps wise. You will pick Unstoppable Action ,Discipline of strength and Endless Assault.
Your only options to get further at that point will be either
Toughness (9% hit points , 3points),
Armor Specialization (15% AC and armor class, 3points) ,
Fast runner (15% decrease stamina while sprinting, 5 points),
Consitution focus (15% consitution, 3 points) or
Grit (3% hp when healed 40sec cd, 3 points)
so either pick a utility one from the above, or Steely defence that will synergize even better at higher gear. Dont know the exact number in high gear, but i will take a rough guess at around 3k (t2+ rank 7 gems). This will be 300 extra Power, or an extra rank 7 power gem over some health,defense, or stamina bonus .
Every build I use that doesn't involve instigator capstone with Deep Gash now runs:
Armor Spec does work and in conjunction with the Sentinel Capstone I was netting an 8% mitigation increase. That was at level 40. Yeah... I'll take that over 200-300 power any day.
Armor Spec does work and in conjunction with the Sentinel Capstone I was netting an 8% mitigation increase. That was at level 40. Yeah... I'll take that over 200-300 power any day.
I still don't know why you downplay Toughness so much, it's still like an extra 2000 health, which is a super important stat.
Definately loving the idea of that mitigation stacking though.
Does this really work for fighters? It certainly doesn't for Wizards. I've got a bunch of abilities that get less than power/25 = weapon damage, one that gives more, several that don't scale at all with power and one ability that's getting diminishing returns from power. Only one of my abilities works with your formula....maybe Wizards are just mental.
The + dmg from power is the same as your weapon dmg.
So if you have 500 weapon dmg on your Orb, 25 power will give another 1 weapon dmg for a total of 501 weapon dmg.
Then every skill has a coefficient that gains dmg based on that 501 weapon dmg, which is why you see different gains.
The + dmg from power is the same as your weapon dmg.
It's not though, which was my point. Here's some examples, I get:
0.019 damage to Magic Missile tooltip per point of power (0.019 x 25 = 0.47) and 0.556 damage per point of weapon damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 65.
0.056 damage to Icy Rays tooltip per point of power (0.056 x 25 = 1.39) and 1.254 damage per point of weapon damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 148.
0 damage (yes 0, true for 4 of my powers) to Arcane Singularity per point of power (0 x 25 = 0) and 4.179 damage per point of damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 503.
It's not though, which was my point. Here's some examples, I get:
0.019 damage to Magic Missile tooltip per point of power (0.019 x 25 = 0.47) and 0.556 damage per point of weapon damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 65.
0.056 damage to Icy Rays tooltip per point of power (0.056 x 25 = 1.39) and 1.254 damage per point of weapon damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 148.
0 damage (yes 0, true for 4 of my powers) to Arcane Singularity per point of power (0 x 25 = 0) and 4.179 damage per point of damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 503.
Dailies are pretty weird in how they function with a lot of different modifiers or feats.
But first off, how you are able to tell that 1 point of power is giving 0.019 to the tooltip? Tooltips don't show decimals.
Second, you can't accurately tell how much dmg you're gaining from weapon dmg unless you figure out how much power is giving and then take it out of the equation because every weapon has a glob of power of them.
But first off, how you are able to tell that 1 point of power is giving 0.019 to the tooltip? Tooltips don't show decimals.
Second, you can't accurately tell how much dmg you're gaining from weapon dmg unless you figure out how much power is giving and then take it out of the equation because every weapon has a glob of power of them.
Take off all my gear to see the base damage, then add power a piece at a time (no weapon equipped) and record the change. Then find a number that gives the correct damage number at all points for that ability. I was able to do this for every ability except Ice Storm which is getting diminishing returns from power for some reason.
Once I have the power coefficient I add a weapon and subtract the base damage and the damage from power from the ability tooltip, leaving the bonus from min and max weapon damage. Then Divided both by the weapon damage (min - min and max - max). In all cases min and max damage had the same coefficient for weapon damage. Finally I confirmed the weapon damage coefficient to see if if could calculate the difference in min and max weapon damages. Since neither the base damage nor power cause the min damage to be different from the max damage, that difference must come from the weapon's min max range and the weapon coefficient. (weapon max - weapon min) x weapon coefficient = ability max - ability min. This worked for all abilities assuming weapon damage has undisplayed fractions e.g. my 511 to 625 damage orb may actually be 511.2 to 624.3.
Two of my dailies tooltips and two of my at-wills tooltips aren't scaling with power at all, which is possibly a bug. Arcane Singularity, Maelstrom of Chaos, Ray of Frost and Storm Pillar.
Does this really work for fighters? It certainly doesn't for Wizards. I've got a bunch of abilities that get less than power/25 = weapon damage, one that gives more, several that don't scale at all with power and one ability that's getting diminishing returns from power. Only one of my abilities works with your formula....maybe Wizards are just mental.
Wizards are ****ed up, gotta adjust the formula a lot for them. Or just scalings for some prob.
Dailies are pretty weird in how they function with a lot of different modifiers or feats.
But first off, how you are able to tell that 1 point of power is giving 0.019 to the tooltip? Tooltips don't show decimals.
Second, you can't accurately tell how much dmg you're gaining from weapon dmg unless you figure out how much power is giving and then take it out of the equation because every weapon has a glob of power of them.
Use bigger numbers and finding a 3,13 multiplier instead of 3,134 won't change a thing.
Armor Spec does work and in conjunction with the Sentinel Capstone I was netting an 8% mitigation increase. That was at level 40. Yeah... I'll take that over 200-300 power any day.
So assuming you were to go down the instigator tree, would you take Steely Defense?? The payoff doesn't seem worth it when you could take one of the more utility/useful feats.
Any chance you want to share the spec you've found most useful???
0
steppenkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Seems like as many people say, Power is bollocks... If you want a damage increase you should stack Crit.
Characters: - Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer) - Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur) - Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC) - Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Basically armpen/crit/recovery all the way til you hit those caps, then Power actually becomes decent. Speaking in terms of dmg.
I have seen something along the lines of Point of No return for Armor Pen to be the below numbers what about the rest?
Apen= 2300 ish
Crit= ?
Power= ? this could be subjective due to it being labled as + weapon damage basically for us (GWF's ) in a nutshell if i read right
Recovery= ?
Can anyone provide these numbers to have a better goal in mind when watching gear sta numbers to see if we are in the right ball park for a Destroyer build?
I have seen something along the lines of Point of No return for Armor Pen to be the below numbers what about the rest?
Apen= 2300 ish
Crit= ?
Power= ? this could be subjective due to it being labled as + weapon damage basically for us (GWF's ) in a nutshell if i read right
Recovery= ?
Can anyone provide these numbers to have a better goal in mind when watching gear sta numbers to see if we are in the right ball park for a Destroyer build?
Something like 2000 for crit and 3000 for recovery is when they really start to hit DR's pretty hard.
However Recovery still endures past it's DR in terms of recharge speed simply because of how the straight of recharge speed increases exponentially the higher you get it which helps offset the DR's a bit on top of the 25% increasing Armor Pen.
So I'd probably say going to 4000 won't hurt.
I actually think Power is underrated a little, in that, once you've hit all your caps on your other dmg modifiers, power suddenly isn't so weak not only because everything else is hitting DR's, but because those modifiers will increase the value of power the higher they get. The reason power seems so weak to begin with is because you already have a HUGE lead/head start with weapon dmg + base power from said weapon to begin with.
If we didn't start off with such a huge number of weapon dmg/power, power as a stat would probably be fairly equal or possibly stronger than even crit/armor pen etc, atleast til it was high enough to where it is now.
0
krazeiefuryMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
Thanks that's in line with what I was thinkng and reading i'm 45 right now looks Like i need to start moveing some augs and refocusing on gear. Currently I'm at a power/crit/recovery mindset. or should I wait till I hit hit and address it there when I start farming T1 for gear?
Thanks that's in line with what I was thinkng and reading i'm 45 right now looks Like i need to start moveing some augs and refocusing on gear. Currently I'm at a power/crit/recovery mindset. or should I wait till I hit hit and address it there when I start farming T1 for gear?
Lol I wouldn't bother enchanting as you level.
Just try to get gear with crit/armor pen, if you got the 25% recovery/arppen feat like I did I'd probably put some heavy focus on Recovery and Crit instead.
Something like 2000 for crit and 3000 for recovery is when they really start to hit DR's pretty hard.
However Recovery still endures past it's DR in terms of recharge speed simply because of how the straight of recharge speed increases exponentially the higher you get it which helps offset the DR's a bit on top of the 25% increasing Armor Pen.
So I'd probably say going to 4000 won't hurt.
I actually think Power is underrated a little, in that, once you've hit all your caps on your other dmg modifiers, power suddenly isn't so weak not only because everything else is hitting DR's, but because those modifiers will increase the value of power the higher they get. The reason power seems so weak to begin with is because you already have a HUGE lead/head start with weapon dmg + base power from said weapon to begin with.
If we didn't start off with such a huge number of weapon dmg/power, power as a stat would probably be fairly equal or possibly stronger than even crit/armor pen etc, atleast til it was high enough to where it is now.
3k Recovery 22% ArP 2k Crit, then you have to see how much more recovery/crit you can get before power starts being better.
Yeah you have it right. I don't think 4k recovery would hurt though, especially with the 25% armpen feat.
Well, I'm a GF, that's why I said you have to plug values into a dps spreadsheet to see at what point power becomes better, or else it's all speculation.
0
yushirokaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Basically armpen/crit/recovery all the way til you hit those caps, then Power actually becomes decent. Speaking in terms of dmg.
Yah thats what i was thinking, but what will be the caps? :S
Crit should be around 40%, but no clue about apen or recovery, some ppl says it already gets capped at 1k but i think its way more. What do you think guys?
Lol orget it, just read the previous posts -_-
This is awesome and will add it to the OP as soon as you could tell me where I would find the coefficients for each ability. Please? That would be super awesome. This is fantastic stuff.
Did you ever get an answer on this? Interested in GWF coefficient.
no offense, but you sound like you are guessing and then suggesting that is true or common knowledge which it is not.
no where does it say that in this thread, nor are you present anywhere on it.
no offense, but you sound like you are guessing and then suggesting that is true or common knowledge which it is not.
no where does it say that in this thread, nor are you present anywhere on it.
Why did you necro out dated info?
But while this is on the front page, is there anywhere to find similar info with the new way that power works?
Comments
2.3k defense at 10k GS so its more like 230 power, But other than that, point is there is no other feat dps wise. You will pick Unstoppable Action ,Discipline of strength and Endless Assault.
Your only options to get further at that point will be either
Toughness (9% hit points , 3points),
Armor Specialization (15% AC and armor class, 3points) ,
Fast runner (15% decrease stamina while sprinting, 5 points),
Consitution focus (15% consitution, 3 points) or
Grit (3% hp when healed 40sec cd, 3 points)
so either pick a utility one from the above, or Steely defence that will synergize even better at higher gear. Dont know the exact number in high gear, but i will take a rough guess at around 3k (t2+ rank 7 gems). This will be 300 extra Power, or an extra rank 7 power gem over some health,defense, or stamina bonus .
Does this really work for fighters? It certainly doesn't for Wizards. I've got a bunch of abilities that get less than power/25 = weapon damage, one that gives more, several that don't scale at all with power and one ability that's getting diminishing returns from power. Only one of my abilities works with your formula....maybe Wizards are just mental.
Every build I use that doesn't involve instigator capstone with Deep Gash now runs:
Unstoppable Action 5/5
Disciple of Strength 3/3
Endless Assault 3/3
Armor Specialization 3/3
Constitution Focus 1/3
Severity 3/3
Crit 2/3
Armor Spec does work and in conjunction with the Sentinel Capstone I was netting an 8% mitigation increase. That was at level 40. Yeah... I'll take that over 200-300 power any day.
I still don't know why you downplay Toughness so much, it's still like an extra 2000 health, which is a super important stat.
Definately loving the idea of that mitigation stacking though.
The + dmg from power is the same as your weapon dmg.
So if you have 500 weapon dmg on your Orb, 25 power will give another 1 weapon dmg for a total of 501 weapon dmg.
Then every skill has a coefficient that gains dmg based on that 501 weapon dmg, which is why you see different gains.
It's not though, which was my point. Here's some examples, I get:
0.019 damage to Magic Missile tooltip per point of power (0.019 x 25 = 0.47) and 0.556 damage per point of weapon damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 65.
0.056 damage to Icy Rays tooltip per point of power (0.056 x 25 = 1.39) and 1.254 damage per point of weapon damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 148.
0 damage (yes 0, true for 4 of my powers) to Arcane Singularity per point of power (0 x 25 = 0) and 4.179 damage per point of damage on my orb. Base damage with no gear is 503.
Dailies are pretty weird in how they function with a lot of different modifiers or feats.
But first off, how you are able to tell that 1 point of power is giving 0.019 to the tooltip? Tooltips don't show decimals.
Second, you can't accurately tell how much dmg you're gaining from weapon dmg unless you figure out how much power is giving and then take it out of the equation because every weapon has a glob of power of them.
Take off all my gear to see the base damage, then add power a piece at a time (no weapon equipped) and record the change. Then find a number that gives the correct damage number at all points for that ability. I was able to do this for every ability except Ice Storm which is getting diminishing returns from power for some reason.
Once I have the power coefficient I add a weapon and subtract the base damage and the damage from power from the ability tooltip, leaving the bonus from min and max weapon damage. Then Divided both by the weapon damage (min - min and max - max). In all cases min and max damage had the same coefficient for weapon damage. Finally I confirmed the weapon damage coefficient to see if if could calculate the difference in min and max weapon damages. Since neither the base damage nor power cause the min damage to be different from the max damage, that difference must come from the weapon's min max range and the weapon coefficient. (weapon max - weapon min) x weapon coefficient = ability max - ability min. This worked for all abilities assuming weapon damage has undisplayed fractions e.g. my 511 to 625 damage orb may actually be 511.2 to 624.3.
Two of my dailies tooltips and two of my at-wills tooltips aren't scaling with power at all, which is possibly a bug. Arcane Singularity, Maelstrom of Chaos, Ray of Frost and Storm Pillar.
Wizards are ****ed up, gotta adjust the formula a lot for them. Or just scalings for some prob.
Use bigger numbers and finding a 3,13 multiplier instead of 3,134 won't change a thing.
I was just questioning the accuracy of his testing method that's all.
I'll have to look at my own CW, I could swear I tested power very roughly along time ago and was getting better results.
If it scales with diminishing returns you plot different values, graph it and get the equation for the line of best fit. That becomes your scaling.
I'm like 99.999999999% sure power doesn't diminish.
So assuming you were to go down the instigator tree, would you take Steely Defense?? The payoff doesn't seem worth it when you could take one of the more utility/useful feats.
Any chance you want to share the spec you've found most useful???
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
I have seen something along the lines of Point of No return for Armor Pen to be the below numbers what about the rest?
Apen= 2300 ish
Crit= ?
Power= ? this could be subjective due to it being labled as + weapon damage basically for us (GWF's ) in a nutshell if i read right
Recovery= ?
Can anyone provide these numbers to have a better goal in mind when watching gear sta numbers to see if we are in the right ball park for a Destroyer build?
Something like 2000 for crit and 3000 for recovery is when they really start to hit DR's pretty hard.
However Recovery still endures past it's DR in terms of recharge speed simply because of how the straight of recharge speed increases exponentially the higher you get it which helps offset the DR's a bit on top of the 25% increasing Armor Pen.
So I'd probably say going to 4000 won't hurt.
I actually think Power is underrated a little, in that, once you've hit all your caps on your other dmg modifiers, power suddenly isn't so weak not only because everything else is hitting DR's, but because those modifiers will increase the value of power the higher they get. The reason power seems so weak to begin with is because you already have a HUGE lead/head start with weapon dmg + base power from said weapon to begin with.
If we didn't start off with such a huge number of weapon dmg/power, power as a stat would probably be fairly equal or possibly stronger than even crit/armor pen etc, atleast til it was high enough to where it is now.
Lol I wouldn't bother enchanting as you level.
Just try to get gear with crit/armor pen, if you got the 25% recovery/arppen feat like I did I'd probably put some heavy focus on Recovery and Crit instead.
Not power, that's always linear. If the scaling has diminishing returns.
3k Recovery 22% ArP 2k Crit, then you have to see how much more recovery/crit you can get before power starts being better.
That's the last stat you wanna stack, ArP/Recovery> Crit
Yeah you have it right. I don't think 4k recovery would hurt though, especially with the 25% armpen feat.
Well, I'm a GF, that's why I said you have to plug values into a dps spreadsheet to see at what point power becomes better, or else it's all speculation.
Yah thats what i was thinking, but what will be the caps? :S
Crit should be around 40%, but no clue about apen or recovery, some ppl says it already gets capped at 1k but i think its way more. What do you think guys?
Lol orget it, just read the previous posts -_-
Did you ever get an answer on this? Interested in GWF coefficient.
no where does it say that in this thread, nor are you present anywhere on it.
Why did you necro out dated info?
But while this is on the front page, is there anywhere to find similar info with the new way that power works?