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Why doesn't anyone want anything other than CW or DC for dungeons?
zuksterr
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 6 Arc User
I was on my GWF today (10.3k GS) and was looking for a group for a T2 epic dungeon for 2 hours even through the WHOLE DD event, I finally just gave up. I noticed that 9 out of every 10 groups was only looking for CW's or DC's. Is this how it is on every server? I literally can't play the game other than PvP at this point which makes me sad.
Post edited by zuksterr on
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your best bet is to find a guild.
What server are you on? i wouldent mind a GWF in our group sometimes, as long you know GWF also can be used to control mobs in some fights/situations.
Mindflayer - I haven't done many T2's because I can't get into them. I'm competent though and if you tell me something I will get it done.
I also rerolled from a GWF.
I play a GF and it's really frustrating to be kicked/have people instantly leave the group because they think its impossible to complete dungeons with certain classes in the group. I've played alongside every class and found that there are good/bad players of each and every one of them.
Give folks a chance to prove their capabilities before instantly exiting, you might be pleasantly surprised. Even if it doesn't go well, so what. You'll have lost a bit of time but you may have developed your skills further by having to work a bit harder or you may have helped other players develop theirs. The best PUG I ever played in didn't have a DC in it and we still completed the dungeon because we worked well as a team.
bad gwf using flourish and other single target spells
and more importantly badly designed dungeons. too much **** can be thrown off. cw make the run a billion times faster
Myself usualy have a GWF or GF with, but thats ONLY because they are in guild. I would replace them with a wizard of a rouge anytime. I solo cleric mostly, no need for a tank. Sorry. They cant hold aggro.
All the talk about how bad great weapon fighters are is mostly just people jumping on the gwf hate bandwagon. If they actually ran with someone that knew what they were doing, they would see that that class rocks.
Dancingchimp, you must run with bad gwf and gf's. My group's gf holds aggro easily. Sure, I get hit a little, but the gwf is there to destroy the adds.
A good CW can manage any number of adds in the game provided they are able to be CC'd. Any time you see a GWF fighting adds during a boss fight they are padding their DPS, not being useful or providing any benefit to the group. The fight would go faster if another CW was present or if the GWF attacked the boss instead (which would result in a much, much lower total damage throughout the dungeon). This is false damage and it's why bads think GWF is good.
If you want to fight Karrundax for 18m and kill all the adds, great. That doesn't make GWF good nor does it make 18m < 8m
a)tank them
b) knockback
c) crowd control them
Why talk about aggro at all?
In T2 there is either KITE or Godmode in 2 astral shields +hallowed ground.And smoke bomb!
OOH gwf brings -15% armor.Guess what a cleric does this too with a ranged aoe on 8 seconds cooldown .
So boss fight.Who deals with adds better?a CW or a GWF?
Lets talk single target damage.a TR/CW or a GWF?
My main was a GWF and I've played through all T2 instances.Then I rerolled a DC.The class simply needs a buff to be competitive with all the crowd control ,buffs, single target damage and knockbacks a TR/CW bring.
AOE dps is irrelevant as it is not THAT high above a CW or competent cleric with divine glow / daunting light.
Survivability is irrelevant aswell due to astral shield stacking.
I hope to play my gwf outside of PVP someday.
ah ****, im on dragon - could have been fun grouping with you.
I'm calling BS, particularly for GF. Generally in MMOs, the higher DPS and the more hardcore/cool people perceive a class to be, the more utterly terrible players roll them. Rogues have been a long term notoriously bad one for this across multiple games because people just *love* topping the DPS meter and when they get a dungeon they tend to forget their job and just doggedly gun after whatever targets will get them highest on said meter, completely forgetting any group oriented tasks they could be performing (IE - stunlocking enemy healer or wizard, quick killing mob on your cleric, etc).
Conversely, you take a class which either has a group oriented role (healer/tank), doesn't top DPS charts, and has a bad reputation, and the spastic DPS group-wiping players will tend to steer clear. Less popular, harder, less sensational classes almost always have a higher grade - or at least more willing to focus - player playing them, be it enchanters in EQ to defense specced warriors in WoW. Those guys know how to make things happen well in a group because it's literally what they signed up for.
In this game my experience is that I get five bad rogues for every bad GF I play with. I, as a DC, also have had more GWFs come to pull mobs off me than CWs or TRs. The flashy classes likely to top DPS meters attract the garbage players and those classes are not GF and GWF.
So yeah, I don't buy what you're saying for a second perhaps you had some horrible luck a ways back and now you are leaving groups with many perfectly good GFs and GWFs without giving them a chance.
Have you been into a Tier 2 Dungeon?Are you even 60?How can you say a GWF/GF takes mobs off you better than a CW?
As explained above, when GWF tries to take mobs off you you are loosing DPS on the boss.If the GWF doesn't try to take adds from you because you have a CW or you can simply face-tank 20-30 mobs in astralshieldx2 then he DPS's the boss and does 1/3th a rogue's damage.
A CW can take mobs off you WHILE dpsing the boss.
A GWF/GF Simply don't bring anything to Tier2 in terms of dps/charts/utility/stunlocking/tanking/whatever.
Shield specced CW's (the ones who give you that delicious singularity almost constantly) severely gimp GF and GWF DPS and aggro because of the almost constant knockbacks from shield after Singularity. We do the shield knockback right there because it almost immediately generates half the action points necessary for our next singularity (depending on mob density) and if the shield blast is preceded by a Chill Strike in the mastery slot, we can almost chain singularities at will.
Basically, the classes don't play well together. In a group with two CW's, a GWF will spend most of the time chasing mobs around the map, so why bring one?
First off, yes, my cleric just broke 10k GS.
Second, I *perfectly* understand the mechanics of what you said, but you seem to be forgetting something you said...
"I instantly leave when I zonePUG..."
I wouldn't even think of arguing about the respective quality of the classes, which is what you seem to be focusing on. Thing is, pugs VS organized groups from guilds or generally knowledgeable players are two totally different beasts. GWFs and GFs in pugs tend to be better than TRs and CWs in pugs because you are *FAR* more likely to get an utterly idiotic player playing the latter two classes than getting one who doesn't understand and work at his role in the former two classes. No one rolls a GF to top DPS charts, while *plenty* of control wizards focus on that and nothing else.
I don't really care if the TR has a class inherent advantage over the GWF who are both calling out to join my zone PUG - even at the T2 level , most TRs who are pugging are bloody <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I will usually favour the GF/GWF just because they'll actually try and help the team rather than just top charts.
Don`t forget, T2 in this game is child`s play compared to a lot of MMO`s out there. The bar for entry to the supposedly super hard end game content just ain`t that high. The gene pool is still harboring its slack jawed mouth breathers in hordes even at the top of this game and, sorry to say, most of them are playing TRs and a good portion are playing CWs. They will join your pug, NOT do their jobs, and yes, it`s usually the GWF who is actually willing to take the time to try and pull mobs off me who will save my *** ahead of the CW who could do it easier but is busy trying to top DPS meters to bother.
On the one hand, you talk about when you`re trying to set up a pug. On the other hand, you talk about ideal party activity, making the asinine assumption that you`re going to have everyone doing what they`re supposed to be doing in a pug. Get your story straight before you go accusing anyone of not knowing what they`re talking about, and *do not even pretend* that you`re getting top quality players when zone pugging.
Because GWFs like you ARE the group starters and are looking for CWs and DCs.
Your already wrong they are not "best" but yeh guild works or start looking for DD group an hour ahead. However, the main reason why CW's are so heavily needed is their ability to push things off maps and the huge amount of CC they provide. DC's are super short in supply, it would be interesting to see a break out of character classes currently in game. The last reason your having a heard time is from what I have seen GWF's dont really offer to much in team comps as of now. I recommend just starting a new DC and running through the quests it should only take 4 days then you wont have this problem. Good luck see you in game.
the way the dungeons are set up its really is no surprise. Even mid-level stuff i was using my gwf and had to protect the healer because the cw and thief couldnt be bothered. I do agree though that the better the class is the more bad players you having playing them. The gwf needs to bring something new to the table than it does already because if you have good thiefs and wizards than gwf can look inadequate
So your argument is that pug-Control Wizards are mages from wow that want to top the DPS instead of focusing on CC and Guardians are tanks and understand their role so I should get a Guardian.
Your argument is that GWF/GF's tend to be less <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> than CW and TR's in zonechat.I have to disagree here from my experience.
There is a point where the gap between game mechanics and player skill is so wide that player skill simply cant cut.
Please tell me how can a Guardian/GWF help your party more in tier2 than a '<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that is topping the charts' or a cleric?
Sure you can bring a GF or a GWF in T2 and finish the dunguon IF the rest of the party is competent enough to carry.In any case It would simply be better to get a CW or a TR [even 30% less skilled] than the GWF/GF you are bringing.