I'm starting to think PWE wants this game to only be played by rogues, wizards, and clerics. Sorry GWFs and GFs, you still won't be invited to any dungeon parties and forced to buy gear off auction house. Hey, maybe next patch!
Just find a guild that runs standart groups or solo queue , I solo all the time and I got my full T2 via dungeons on my GF . Yeah sometimes they kick me sure np - I can't care less :P
I'm starting to think PWE wants this game to only be played by rogues, wizards, and clerics. Sorry GWFs and GFs, you still won't be invited to any dungeon parties and forced to buy gear off auction house. Hey, maybe next patch!
Eh, until that patch comes out I'll probably be leveling alts - I won't bother with end game stuff on my Guardian for now, except maybe a few dailies if they are doable.
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jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm starting to think PWE wants this game to only be played by rogues, wizards, and clerics. Sorry GWFs and GFs, you still won't be invited to any dungeon parties and forced to buy gear off auction house. Hey, maybe next patch!
Yet another complainer that doesn't read the website.
Changes can't be made in a day or two. With all of the other issues that they are dealing with right now, I think they are doing a good job addressing what needs changing. If they go off and change things without making sure that those changes won't destroy another class or make dungeons completely trivial, then the game will be in a worse state than it is now.
I run with a guardian, wizard, cleric, and two gwf or a gwf and rogue. I'm either the cleric or the rogue, depending on who is playing at the time. Sure, aggro is an issue. But, we deal with it and get things done with minor frustration. We change what we are doing to compensate and win.
Until some things do change, like getting kicked from pugs for being a certain class, or the aggro issue, then you change and win.
LOL I expect people to be competent at their jobs. If you're telling me the only way they can balance the classes is trial and error, I am telling you we need a new them
The only way to balance the classes is trial and error, first they tweak things internally to see how it runs on internal playtests (yes they do run these, probably on a daily basis as well), then once they're happy with the results from the internal playtests they send them out too the players to gauge their reactions (Currently live although this will be moved to the test server once it's out), then once they're happy with how the players react they'll publish them too live.
Balancing classes can take months to do adequately, years to do well and may never be perfect, even Everquest doesn't have perfect class balance after nearly 15 years, and I'm sure some of the people who've played it here can tell you horror stories about how they've screwed it up from time to time.
"’d also like to talk about class balance. Like any online game, class balance is a huge discussion, both internally and externally. We are definitely hearing this feedback and watching the evolution of PvE and PvP strategies in an effort to help bring everything into alignment. Right now there are a handful of powers and feats that still have bugs associated with them, so we’re working on getting those issues ironed out first. Once we’re able to make sure everything is working properly, our next step will be to start diving into the balance feedback, and do our best to not only make things fair, but also ensure that all of the classes are fun to play in every aspect of the game, from solo play, to group PvE content, to PvP."
Essentially this small segment of a large body of text which should have been better split up so as to avoid confusion admittedly but which does tackle your issues, states clearly they need to fix the bugged feats. Once that's done and everything is working correctly
then they can get a better reading on how classes are stacking up. Right now due to bugs their internal data is skewed but it doesn't take a genius or massive amounts of data to give players the impression that the GF is the class that is least played and suffering the most. Whilst the GWF is the one that is getting the most vocal early reaction and cleric aggro being largely "vocalized too" despite the class being pretty darn good for a first attempt. Otherwise why else would you see a TON of rogues and CW's?
TRs and CWs are getting kicked from dungeons aswell, it's the clerics astral shields or that people feel they need clerics in general that is the problem; The problem for public groups.
The balance should be made depending on what game content there is, at this point the shield stacking and the knockbacks to instant death on certain bosses seems to need balancing.
The PvP is also not related to you being kicked in a public dungeon group or any PvE content for that matter so keep the discussions seperated.
For the record the damage output of GWFs seems to be low in general but I've seen GWFs that do plenty of damage if not even more than any other pure damage class, same with GF's and their insane tier set-bonuses. They are fine dps wise but for a public group I can relate to the complaint about being kicked but it's not dependant on someone doing damage or not it's purely about what strategy you want for your dungeon and as of now it's ONLY cleric/double cleric and knockbacks
TRs and CWs are getting kicked from dungeons aswell, it's the clerics astral shields or that people feel they need clerics in general that is the problem; The problem for public groups.
The balance should be made depending on what game content there is, at this point the shield stacking and the knockbacks to instant death on certain bosses seems to need balancing.
The PvP is also not related to you being kicked in a public dungeon group or any PvE content for that matter so keep the discussions seperated.
For the record the damage output of GWFs seems to be low in general but I've seen GWFs that do plenty of damage if not even more than any other pure damage class, same with GF's and their insane tier set-bonuses. They are fine dps wise but for a public group I can relate to the complaint about being kicked but it's not dependant on someone doing damage or not it's purely about what strategy you want for your dungeon and as of now it's ONLY cleric/double cleric and knockbacks
That's more to do with GEAR, than class issues. Only one TR is needed, CW's are preferred in 2's and clerics in double due to so much of their stuff stacking. This is all pointless however, until they FIX GF's!
They borked their guard in the last patch changing things to server sided and GF's did NOT need to be kicked while they were down, which is just what happened, spare a thought for your tanky neglected brothers and sisters... They're getting the brown smelly end of the stick all the time unless they're exploiting...
And knockback is highly valued because of instant pit deaths and naturally overtuned HP on adds. Seems that every F2P or close enough to title is overtuning via hp and it's RPG design cardinal rule number 1: don't give the mobs insane hp and expect that to be a challenge.
I'm starting to think PWE wants this game to only be played by rogues, wizards, and clerics. Sorry GWFs and GFs, you still won't be invited to any dungeon parties and forced to buy gear off auction house. Hey, maybe next patch!
Yet another patch goes by, and the OP still refuses to reroll a rogue, wizard, or cleric.
You could fix the problem yourself but you refuse to.... so.....
Only one TR is needed, CW's are preferred in 2's and clerics in double due to so much of their stuff stacking. This is all pointless however, until they FIX GF's!
just because its your opinion that you only need one tr it doesnt mean gf's or gwf's needs to be "fixed".
you can manage any dungeon with 4 or 5 trs, same with gwfss and definately with gf's.
gf's seem very good right now, they do a lot of damage and they can mitigate a lot and have very high survivability.
if you give them a moment to pick up the aggro of creatures or bosses things go real smooth.
theres absolutely nothing wrong with the classes atm except for the cleric stacking astral shields which lets you ignore almost every mechanic in the game if not indeed every mechanic in the game.
then theres issues related to how people que into public groups and what decides which group and which people you get to be with, and possibly some fights that maybe shouldnt be on platforms without walls or with pitfalls but those are different discussions.
gf's are fine, gwf's are fine, they possibly deserve minimal changes like an increase in % of whatever here and there but nothing major, theyre totally fine
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ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yet another patch goes by, and the OP still refuses to reroll a rogue, wizard, or cleric.
You could fix the problem yourself but you refuse to.... so.....
So I should be forced to re-roll and play a class I have absolutely no interest to play just to be viable in the game? Herpaderp.
To 100% properly balance classes yes, but the way the classes are currently set up is well.. pure bull****. Minor adjustments should have been made weeks ago, its TERRIBLE game design that only 3 out of the 5 classes are being used in dungeons; this should have been prioritized to fix. You want me to list ways to fix the broken classes? Just read 80% of the **** threads in the "Gameplay, Combat, and PvP Discussion" section, or the class discussion section, almost everyone is stating the same things over and over again, yet these developers are not listening.
no such thing as 100% balance and it will never happen since all players have different skill/pc etc. at best 75% blance maybe.
Check wow been over 7 years and yet you have class not balance all over the place lol.
The day you understand that balance will never happen and if you want pvp/pve balance you gota play a FPS the better you gona be.
just because its your opinion that you only need one tr it doesnt mean gf's or gwf's needs to be "fixed".
you can manage any dungeon with 4 or 5 trs, same with gwfss and definately with gf's.
gf's seem very good right now, they do a lot of damage and they can mitigate a lot and have very high survivability.
if you give them a moment to pick up the aggro of creatures or bosses things go real smooth.
theres absolutely nothing wrong with the classes atm except for the cleric stacking astral shields which lets you ignore almost every mechanic in the game if not indeed every mechanic in the game.
then theres issues related to how people que into public groups and what decides which group and which people you get to be with, and possibly some fights that maybe shouldnt be on platforms without walls or with pitfalls but those are different discussions.
gf's are fine, gwf's are fine, they possibly deserve minimal changes like an increase in % of whatever here and there but nothing major, theyre totally fine
FIRST of all.
Class stacking, is never a sign of balance, it's just not, it's a sign of preference in Q.O.L, Skill-cap and of course and most importantly, power. So lets throw the 5 TR side tracking straw man garbage OUT the window shall we?
First of all, with the sheer amount of bugs in the class suffers from currently your assumption that they're in a good place seems somewhat odd... if they have such insane level of bugs, beyond that of other classes, how is that being "in a good place" are you implying they SHOULD be bugged? lol arguing against that is just silly... sorry.
Also I never said AS stacking wasn't bad, I just didn't sugar coat the OTHER, LARGER issues in the game class wise to feed your little agenda and bias.
Knockback being key is due to the environment, that's true, but why would I want a buggy nuisance of a class like a GF when I can have 2 clerics and have a much easier time?
And stating then, after being informed of all the bugs with GF that they're "fine" and only need "% increases here and there" just proves you're clearly ignorant.
Class balance really is the hardest thing to get right in these games. Those who think it is easy are fooling themselves. The first thing you have to ask what play-style am I balancing the classes for?
Single player game with a companion?
End game dungeon groups
PvP
Something that is overpowering in PvP (stuns and crowd control) may be the one skill that helps the class survive in the single player game. That skill you want to boost for the GWF so they are more welcome in groups could completely overpower them in PvP or the single player game.
This has been an age old problem since the early days of MMOs. I remember back in the days of EQ when classes were balanced for PvP which then hurt the class on regular servers.
So I should be forced to re-roll and play a class I have absolutely no interest to play just to be viable in the game? Herpaderp.
Well herpster, if you're not interested in the game, no one is forcing you to be here.
Generally speaking in an mmo, you don't get to pick to the talents you want, the skills you want, or press the buttons you want - you have to make the better choices and press the right buttons.
It's not up to the devs to make every bad choice you want to make somehow work out in your favor.
Spoiled much? Kids... sigh...
The only way to balance the classes is trial and error, first they tweak things internally to see how it runs on internal playtests (yes they do run these, probably on a daily basis as well), then once they're happy with the results from the internal playtests they send them out too the players to gauge their reactions (Currently live although this will be moved to the test server once it's out), then once they're happy with how the players react they'll publish them too live.
Balancing classes can take months to do adequately, years to do well and may never be perfect, even Everquest doesn't have perfect class balance after nearly 15 years, and I'm sure some of the people who've played it here can tell you horror stories about how they've screwed it up from time to time.
Exactly what I've been trying to tell those whiners.... It would drasticly speed things along if they can come up with a detailed technical analysis complete with numbers on how a buff or a nerf of a class will effect gameplay, and other class.
Simple questions to answer really... if i buff or nerf something, how much exactly do i buff or nerf? Why that amount? How does it effect the role or purpose of the class I am buffing or nerfing with consideration of the role of the other classes in terms of both pvp and pve? How does it effect gameplay overall in terms of pvp and pve? How does it effect the role of the classes overall should it be solo play or group play or having 2 or 3 or 4 of the same type in a party, both pvp and pve? Again I repeat, answer all the above with verifiable numbers and I assure you, balancing or perceived balancing will be done very quickly.
ahh, well when i do only 1.2 million dmg the whole dungeon (Epic Karrendax, however you spell it.) with a GWF behind a TR that is 2k GS ahead of mine, I think i'm doing it right, but alas still no groups for me, not even from my own damned guild....this game is started to suck **** through a straw.
ahh, well when i do only 1.2 million dmg the whole dungeon (Epic Karrendax, however you spell it.) with a GWF behind a TR that is 2k GS ahead of mine, I think i'm doing it right, but alas still no groups for me, not even from my own damned guild....this game is started to suck **** through a straw.
OP: I don't know much about balancing but i can share you one of my experience.It happend two days ago but it was so interesting and surprising that it will remain in my memory for a very long time (and also it will remind me why i shouldn't have to listen to people other than my personal experience).So i was qued for the dungeon: The Throne of Idris.Fortunately i have been selected pretty quick so the dungeon started (it was my first time inside and i'm a Control Wizard just to make it clear).
The party composition was:-Cleric,Guardian Fighter,2x Greatweapon Fighter,and me.
The dungeon was nothing special,the fights were hard but doable (oh yes our level range were 38-40).At last we entered the boss room clreared out and the final boss fight was started.Two things:
-first if you die here you will get teleported out from the boss room and you can't go back
-second there are two elite zombie hulk with tons of Hp in the fight (like two bodyguard for Idris) and they constantly respawning if you somehow manage to kill them.Their most annoying attack is the slam,they continuously use this attack which knock you down and remove you from the fight for a few sec.So as i realized that our melee guys can't attack Idris because of that two hulk,i focused my attacks on them and grabbed the aggro.This seemed a good idea Idris's Hp started to drop immediately as our melee guys were on her finally.In the mean time i was played tag with the two hulk .
It went well Idris's Hp was slightly below 3/4 when she started use her magical attacks more frequently.She fires 5 orbs in a cone shaped area and if any of them hit you it makes you blocked,you can't do anything for a short time except moving away.Well these orbs hit me for a few times while i was kiting the hulks and the hulks managed to pound me on the ground and kill me.The next one in the line was one of our GWF and than the Cleric.We were outside the room can't go back only the GF and the other GWF left inside marked with a quick death sentence AS WE THOUGHT.
BUT all the prejudices which were in my mind about GWFs and GFs proven terribly wrong.I know sorry,it will never happen again but reading the forums gave me some kind of brainwashing effect .First i was never thought any class would be superiour or inferior than the other but reading the forums slowly gave me the thoughts that GWFs and GFs are really lamer than the others.Despite the fact that i never experienced this in the game (i know thats sounds st***d but that's how it works, if enough people say to you something you slowly start to believe it even if your experience and common sense says otherwise).
So back to the fight,those two guys were still inside WITHOUT any heals and they still managed to almost kill Idris!!! before they sadly got killed.Of course we were on nerd rage and went back all together and finished her lol.
Those two guys showed me a prime example and a lesson:
-what is to be like playing your class on a master level and not constantly complaining
-and always follow my senses and not listen to people who are always unsatisfied (otherwise you get brainwashed )
Guess what? My next character will be GF or GWF,have a nice day everyone .
No one said that a well played and geared GWF isn't an asset to the group. The problem is that an equally well played and geared CW or TR is just so much more useful. I have all three classes and it is not even funny how big the difference is: with a GWF you need to ensure you have the very best gear you can find and be constantly aware of your positioning to get good DPS, and you still won't contribute as much as a good CW/TR. Meanwhile on a TR or CW life is much simpler, and you can skimp on your gear to a surprisingly large extent and still do fine.
It is simply the fact that you don't need anywhere as good gear or to play as efficiently to get as good results on a TR/CW is why the GWF is currently so looked down upon.
No one said that a well played and geared GWF isn't an asset to the group. The problem is that an equally well played and geared CW or TR is just so much more useful. I have all three classes and it is not even funny how big the difference is: with a GWF you need to ensure you have the very best gear you can find and be constantly aware of your positioning to get good DPS, and you still won't contribute as much as a good CW/TR. Meanwhile on a TR or CW life is much simpler, and you can skimp on your gear to a surprisingly large extent and still do fine.
It is simply the fact that you don't need anywhere as good gear or to play as efficiently to get as good results on a TR/CW is why the GWF is currently so looked down upon.
The gear logic and positioning applies cross class. Have you tried being an undergeared CW in a boss fight without GWFs or GF? I assure you that your 3 teleport dodge can only get you so far. Without GWFs or GFs to do the tanking for you, TR and/or CWs who skimp on their gears will die horribly. Many of my successful non-DC epic dungeon runs, I owe them to GWFs and GFs, for without them taking care of the mobs, I cannot do my job as a CW efficiently.
It is a fallacy to assume it is easy to play CW. Easy to randomly cast **** yes, but knowing what to cast and when, that requires experience and alot of position awareness, you need to know when to tele in to cast icy terrain, you need to know when to tele to DCs to help CC mobs that is aiming DCs, you need to be aware which elite mob to single target disable so that it wont put too much stress o the attackers. Stand at the wrong place, tele at the wrong time, cast the wrong thing, steal agro at the wrong time, you are likely to either die or have the mobs target you instead.
TR... there are only so many times they can dodge attacks, once their dodge run out, how many mob/elite mob do you think a TR can tank before dying horribly? Especially the TRs who skimp on their gear.
It's a complete fallacy to state that it's a fact CW and TR do not need to play as efficiently as GWF to get good results. A badly played CW/TR is likely to get the entire party killed even if the GWF played his/her very best.
It's a complete fallacy to state that it's a fact CW and TR do not need to play as efficiently as GWF to get good results. A badly played CW/TR is likely to get the entire party killed even if the GWF played his/her very best.
Anyone who plays badly can let the team down in especially in more difficult dungeons.
However, at least from my personal experience, I can afford to slack somewhat both gear-wise and effort-wise with a TR or CW and still do well either solo or in parties, not to mention beating any GWF I come across DPS-wise, whereas with a GWF it is a lot harder to do well and you need to really keep up with the gear/enchants.
Now maybe I just play TR/CW very well and GWF poorly. Could be that, of course, but that seems unlikely as I have played a fair amount of MMOs and done well with any class that is vaguely competitive. As I said, this is personal experience, so perhaps it is just that and not really a class issue, but right now, to me, the GWF seems somewhat underpowered, and it is really hard to shake that feeling.
Anyone who plays badly can let the team down in especially in more difficult dungeons.
However, at least from my personal experience, I can afford to slack somewhat both gear-wise and effort-wise with a TR or CW and still do well either solo or in parties, not to mention beating any GWF I come across DPS-wise, whereas with a GWF it is a lot harder to do well and you need to really keep up with the gear/enchants.
Now maybe I just play TR/CW very well and GWF poorly. Could be that, of course, but that seems unlikely as I have played a fair amount of MMOs and done well with any class that is vaguely competitive. As I said, this is personal experience, so perhaps it is just that and not really a class issue, but right now, to me, the GWF seems somewhat underpowered, and it is really hard to shake that feeling.
The only way you actually beat a GWF in terms of DPS is when you spec dps skills on your bar. I usually CC spec my skill bar and a CW with CC spec will mostly loose to GWF in terms of damage because you waste 1 slot on Icy Terrain which has really insignificant damage. I do expect GWF to be underpower compared to CW and TR because TR are specialized DPS-er, and CWs are in my opinion situational DPS-er/CC.
Comments
Just find a guild that runs standart groups or solo queue , I solo all the time and I got my full T2 via dungeons on my GF . Yeah sometimes they kick me sure np - I can't care less :P
Eh, until that patch comes out I'll probably be leveling alts - I won't bother with end game stuff on my Guardian for now, except maybe a few dailies if they are doable.
Yet another complainer that doesn't read the website.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=896631
Changes can't be made in a day or two. With all of the other issues that they are dealing with right now, I think they are doing a good job addressing what needs changing. If they go off and change things without making sure that those changes won't destroy another class or make dungeons completely trivial, then the game will be in a worse state than it is now.
I run with a guardian, wizard, cleric, and two gwf or a gwf and rogue. I'm either the cleric or the rogue, depending on who is playing at the time. Sure, aggro is an issue. But, we deal with it and get things done with minor frustration. We change what we are doing to compensate and win.
Until some things do change, like getting kicked from pugs for being a certain class, or the aggro issue, then you change and win.
The only way to balance the classes is trial and error, first they tweak things internally to see how it runs on internal playtests (yes they do run these, probably on a daily basis as well), then once they're happy with the results from the internal playtests they send them out too the players to gauge their reactions (Currently live although this will be moved to the test server once it's out), then once they're happy with how the players react they'll publish them too live.
Balancing classes can take months to do adequately, years to do well and may never be perfect, even Everquest doesn't have perfect class balance after nearly 15 years, and I'm sure some of the people who've played it here can tell you horror stories about how they've screwed it up from time to time.
Essentially this small segment of a large body of text which should have been better split up so as to avoid confusion admittedly but which does tackle your issues, states clearly they need to fix the bugged feats. Once that's done and everything is working correctly
then they can get a better reading on how classes are stacking up. Right now due to bugs their internal data is skewed but it doesn't take a genius or massive amounts of data to give players the impression that the GF is the class that is least played and suffering the most. Whilst the GWF is the one that is getting the most vocal early reaction and cleric aggro being largely "vocalized too" despite the class being pretty darn good for a first attempt. Otherwise why else would you see a TON of rogues and CW's?
The balance should be made depending on what game content there is, at this point the shield stacking and the knockbacks to instant death on certain bosses seems to need balancing.
The PvP is also not related to you being kicked in a public dungeon group or any PvE content for that matter so keep the discussions seperated.
For the record the damage output of GWFs seems to be low in general but I've seen GWFs that do plenty of damage if not even more than any other pure damage class, same with GF's and their insane tier set-bonuses. They are fine dps wise but for a public group I can relate to the complaint about being kicked but it's not dependant on someone doing damage or not it's purely about what strategy you want for your dungeon and as of now it's ONLY cleric/double cleric and knockbacks
That's more to do with GEAR, than class issues. Only one TR is needed, CW's are preferred in 2's and clerics in double due to so much of their stuff stacking. This is all pointless however, until they FIX GF's!
They borked their guard in the last patch changing things to server sided and GF's did NOT need to be kicked while they were down, which is just what happened, spare a thought for your tanky neglected brothers and sisters... They're getting the brown smelly end of the stick all the time unless they're exploiting...
And knockback is highly valued because of instant pit deaths and naturally overtuned HP on adds. Seems that every F2P or close enough to title is overtuning via hp and it's RPG design cardinal rule number 1: don't give the mobs insane hp and expect that to be a challenge.
Lazy stuff is lazy.
Yet another patch goes by, and the OP still refuses to reroll a rogue, wizard, or cleric.
You could fix the problem yourself but you refuse to.... so.....
just because its your opinion that you only need one tr it doesnt mean gf's or gwf's needs to be "fixed".
you can manage any dungeon with 4 or 5 trs, same with gwfss and definately with gf's.
gf's seem very good right now, they do a lot of damage and they can mitigate a lot and have very high survivability.
if you give them a moment to pick up the aggro of creatures or bosses things go real smooth.
theres absolutely nothing wrong with the classes atm except for the cleric stacking astral shields which lets you ignore almost every mechanic in the game if not indeed every mechanic in the game.
then theres issues related to how people que into public groups and what decides which group and which people you get to be with, and possibly some fights that maybe shouldnt be on platforms without walls or with pitfalls but those are different discussions.
gf's are fine, gwf's are fine, they possibly deserve minimal changes like an increase in % of whatever here and there but nothing major, theyre totally fine
So I should be forced to re-roll and play a class I have absolutely no interest to play just to be viable in the game? Herpaderp.
no such thing as 100% balance and it will never happen since all players have different skill/pc etc. at best 75% blance maybe.
Check wow been over 7 years and yet you have class not balance all over the place lol.
The day you understand that balance will never happen and if you want pvp/pve balance you gota play a FPS the better you gona be.
FIRST of all.
Class stacking, is never a sign of balance, it's just not, it's a sign of preference in Q.O.L, Skill-cap and of course and most importantly, power. So lets throw the 5 TR side tracking straw man garbage OUT the window shall we?
First of all, with the sheer amount of bugs in the class suffers from currently your assumption that they're in a good place seems somewhat odd... if they have such insane level of bugs, beyond that of other classes, how is that being "in a good place" are you implying they SHOULD be bugged? lol arguing against that is just silly... sorry.
Also I never said AS stacking wasn't bad, I just didn't sugar coat the OTHER, LARGER issues in the game class wise to feed your little agenda and bias.
Knockback being key is due to the environment, that's true, but why would I want a buggy nuisance of a class like a GF when I can have 2 clerics and have a much easier time?
And stating then, after being informed of all the bugs with GF that they're "fine" and only need "% increases here and there" just proves you're clearly ignorant.
Single player game with a companion?
End game dungeon groups
PvP
Something that is overpowering in PvP (stuns and crowd control) may be the one skill that helps the class survive in the single player game. That skill you want to boost for the GWF so they are more welcome in groups could completely overpower them in PvP or the single player game.
This has been an age old problem since the early days of MMOs. I remember back in the days of EQ when classes were balanced for PvP which then hurt the class on regular servers.
Well herpster, if you're not interested in the game, no one is forcing you to be here.
Generally speaking in an mmo, you don't get to pick to the talents you want, the skills you want, or press the buttons you want - you have to make the better choices and press the right buttons.
It's not up to the devs to make every bad choice you want to make somehow work out in your favor.
Spoiled much? Kids... sigh...
Exactly what I've been trying to tell those whiners.... It would drasticly speed things along if they can come up with a detailed technical analysis complete with numbers on how a buff or a nerf of a class will effect gameplay, and other class.
Simple questions to answer really... if i buff or nerf something, how much exactly do i buff or nerf? Why that amount? How does it effect the role or purpose of the class I am buffing or nerfing with consideration of the role of the other classes in terms of both pvp and pve? How does it effect gameplay overall in terms of pvp and pve? How does it effect the role of the classes overall should it be solo play or group play or having 2 or 3 or 4 of the same type in a party, both pvp and pve? Again I repeat, answer all the above with verifiable numbers and I assure you, balancing or perceived balancing will be done very quickly.
There are many skill related bugs and other game issues to be fixed and you ask for class balance?
Also, this is mostly a pve centric game right now.
Support Ticket | Tech Support | Bug Reports | News & Announcements | Patch Notes
Yey!!! I hope we GWF get some love.
Don't give up.. we'll get our love soon!
The party composition was:-Cleric,Guardian Fighter,2x Greatweapon Fighter,and me.
The dungeon was nothing special,the fights were hard but doable (oh yes our level range were 38-40).At last we entered the boss room clreared out and the final boss fight was started.Two things:
-first if you die here you will get teleported out from the boss room and you can't go back
-second there are two elite zombie hulk with tons of Hp in the fight (like two bodyguard for Idris) and they constantly respawning if you somehow manage to kill them.Their most annoying attack is the slam,they continuously use this attack which knock you down and remove you from the fight for a few sec.So as i realized that our melee guys can't attack Idris because of that two hulk,i focused my attacks on them and grabbed the aggro.This seemed a good idea Idris's Hp started to drop immediately as our melee guys were on her finally.In the mean time i was played tag with the two hulk
It went well Idris's Hp was slightly below 3/4 when she started use her magical attacks more frequently.She fires 5 orbs in a cone shaped area and if any of them hit you it makes you blocked,you can't do anything for a short time except moving away.Well these orbs hit me for a few times while i was kiting the hulks and the hulks managed to pound me on the ground and kill me.The next one in the line was one of our GWF and than the Cleric.We were outside the room can't go back only the GF and the other GWF left inside marked with a quick death sentence AS WE THOUGHT.
BUT all the prejudices which were in my mind about GWFs and GFs proven terribly wrong.I know sorry,it will never happen again but reading the forums gave me some kind of brainwashing effect
So back to the fight,those two guys were still inside WITHOUT any heals and they still managed to almost kill Idris!!! before they sadly got killed.Of course we were on nerd rage and went back all together and finished her lol.
Those two guys showed me a prime example and a lesson:
-what is to be like playing your class on a master level and not constantly complaining
-and always follow my senses and not listen to people who are always unsatisfied (otherwise you get brainwashed
Guess what? My next character will be GF or GWF,have a nice day everyone
It is simply the fact that you don't need anywhere as good gear or to play as efficiently to get as good results on a TR/CW is why the GWF is currently so looked down upon.
The gear logic and positioning applies cross class. Have you tried being an undergeared CW in a boss fight without GWFs or GF? I assure you that your 3 teleport dodge can only get you so far. Without GWFs or GFs to do the tanking for you, TR and/or CWs who skimp on their gears will die horribly. Many of my successful non-DC epic dungeon runs, I owe them to GWFs and GFs, for without them taking care of the mobs, I cannot do my job as a CW efficiently.
It is a fallacy to assume it is easy to play CW. Easy to randomly cast **** yes, but knowing what to cast and when, that requires experience and alot of position awareness, you need to know when to tele in to cast icy terrain, you need to know when to tele to DCs to help CC mobs that is aiming DCs, you need to be aware which elite mob to single target disable so that it wont put too much stress o the attackers. Stand at the wrong place, tele at the wrong time, cast the wrong thing, steal agro at the wrong time, you are likely to either die or have the mobs target you instead.
TR... there are only so many times they can dodge attacks, once their dodge run out, how many mob/elite mob do you think a TR can tank before dying horribly? Especially the TRs who skimp on their gear.
It's a complete fallacy to state that it's a fact CW and TR do not need to play as efficiently as GWF to get good results. A badly played CW/TR is likely to get the entire party killed even if the GWF played his/her very best.
Anyone who plays badly can let the team down in especially in more difficult dungeons.
However, at least from my personal experience, I can afford to slack somewhat both gear-wise and effort-wise with a TR or CW and still do well either solo or in parties, not to mention beating any GWF I come across DPS-wise, whereas with a GWF it is a lot harder to do well and you need to really keep up with the gear/enchants.
Now maybe I just play TR/CW very well and GWF poorly. Could be that, of course, but that seems unlikely as I have played a fair amount of MMOs and done well with any class that is vaguely competitive. As I said, this is personal experience, so perhaps it is just that and not really a class issue, but right now, to me, the GWF seems somewhat underpowered, and it is really hard to shake that feeling.
The only way you actually beat a GWF in terms of DPS is when you spec dps skills on your bar. I usually CC spec my skill bar and a CW with CC spec will mostly loose to GWF in terms of damage because you waste 1 slot on Icy Terrain which has really insignificant damage. I do expect GWF to be underpower compared to CW and TR because TR are specialized DPS-er, and CWs are in my opinion situational DPS-er/CC.
Huzzah! Maybe my 60 GWF can get in on T2 soon.
I'll continue leveling my TR until then. It's the only way to be sure.