test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
My Neverwinter Review.
strateg0s
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
I played pen and paper AD&D when I was younger and ran a couple of adventures on Neverwinter Nights so was tempted into playing Neverwinter.
What I have found is a mixed bag. On one hand I quite enjoy it, on the other hand it's not D&D. I think my disappointments would be less noticeable if it didn't have that famous moniker in the title, on the other hand I probably would have never bothered downloading it.
The game itself has it's fun sides, the combat has at least some skill in it which is nice and visually it's pleasing. It has that strangely addictive quality common in MMO games , a quality born from the simple need to get better loot and improving your stats.
The mechanics in the game are fairly solid, but are quite simple. What it does it does pretty well, I think that sums up the game of Neverwinter.
On the down side, it's essentially a single player game, it feels more like I'm playing Fable or something. The multi-player content feels bolt on at best. PvP is useless and the dungeons that require a group a bit of a let down. A confusing mash up where everyone wades in and smashes their attack buttons and there is so much going on you often cant even see your character. The only Dungeon that provided any challenge was the mad Dragon. I REALLY enjoyed that, it took me six or seven groups, you had to collect people in a well formed group who knew what they were doing. It was a challenge that forced everyone to play their classes and was hands down the most fun. Unfortunalty the bosses after that didn't live up to that encounter.
But the real problems with the game come to the fore if you started playing wanting Dungeons And Dragons. It just simply isn't. The setting is The Forgotten Realms, but you never get a feeling of being in the world, you are stuck in "zones" full of static NPCs, endless re-spawning enemies. There is no real exploration, there is plenty of lore and dialogue but no incentive to read any of it. There is no Roleplay between players, and no incentive to Role play. There are no puzzles, no need to use your brain. It is at it's core a very simple hack and slash game stuck in portions of the Setting. When I chose a Rogue charatcer I was excited about adventuring with a party and sneaking ahead to check for traps and warn the party what was coming. What happens in Neverwinter? Everyone runs across the traps triggering them , heals and charges into what ever enemies are there. Rinse and repeat.
The other problem is the lack of customisability in your character. One of the great things about D&D is making your character your own. Not only are you limited in your classes in Never winter but you are limited in what you can do with them. Maybe my rogue wanted to use a crossbow? Or a sword? But everyone has the same weapons and abilities. They all look the same they all act the same. Not only that but the essentially linear nature of the game means that everyone fins pretty much the same loot.
It's all a bit disappointing coming from a "Real" D&D background or even Neverwinter nights.
Which leads to the final problem:
The Foundry. In keeping with the rest of the game , it's paired down and simplistic compared to it's ancestors. It just doesn't provide the flexibility that Neverwinter Nights delivered so well. I guess it is to be expected that a simple game would have a simple editor, it's just a bit of a shame.
In conclusion: TLDR
Neverwinter is good fun, as a single player hack and slash game with some "extras". But it is only related to D&D in the most superficial of ways.
What I have found is a mixed bag. On one hand I quite enjoy it, on the other hand it's not D&D. I think my disappointments would be less noticeable if it didn't have that famous moniker in the title, on the other hand I probably would have never bothered downloading it.
The game itself has it's fun sides, the combat has at least some skill in it which is nice and visually it's pleasing. It has that strangely addictive quality common in MMO games , a quality born from the simple need to get better loot and improving your stats.
The mechanics in the game are fairly solid, but are quite simple. What it does it does pretty well, I think that sums up the game of Neverwinter.
On the down side, it's essentially a single player game, it feels more like I'm playing Fable or something. The multi-player content feels bolt on at best. PvP is useless and the dungeons that require a group a bit of a let down. A confusing mash up where everyone wades in and smashes their attack buttons and there is so much going on you often cant even see your character. The only Dungeon that provided any challenge was the mad Dragon. I REALLY enjoyed that, it took me six or seven groups, you had to collect people in a well formed group who knew what they were doing. It was a challenge that forced everyone to play their classes and was hands down the most fun. Unfortunalty the bosses after that didn't live up to that encounter.
But the real problems with the game come to the fore if you started playing wanting Dungeons And Dragons. It just simply isn't. The setting is The Forgotten Realms, but you never get a feeling of being in the world, you are stuck in "zones" full of static NPCs, endless re-spawning enemies. There is no real exploration, there is plenty of lore and dialogue but no incentive to read any of it. There is no Roleplay between players, and no incentive to Role play. There are no puzzles, no need to use your brain. It is at it's core a very simple hack and slash game stuck in portions of the Setting. When I chose a Rogue charatcer I was excited about adventuring with a party and sneaking ahead to check for traps and warn the party what was coming. What happens in Neverwinter? Everyone runs across the traps triggering them , heals and charges into what ever enemies are there. Rinse and repeat.
The other problem is the lack of customisability in your character. One of the great things about D&D is making your character your own. Not only are you limited in your classes in Never winter but you are limited in what you can do with them. Maybe my rogue wanted to use a crossbow? Or a sword? But everyone has the same weapons and abilities. They all look the same they all act the same. Not only that but the essentially linear nature of the game means that everyone fins pretty much the same loot.
It's all a bit disappointing coming from a "Real" D&D background or even Neverwinter nights.
Which leads to the final problem:
The Foundry. In keeping with the rest of the game , it's paired down and simplistic compared to it's ancestors. It just doesn't provide the flexibility that Neverwinter Nights delivered so well. I guess it is to be expected that a simple game would have a simple editor, it's just a bit of a shame.
In conclusion: TLDR
Neverwinter is good fun, as a single player hack and slash game with some "extras". But it is only related to D&D in the most superficial of ways.
Post edited by strateg0s on
0
Comments
As far as it not being DnDish enough, I'm really glad they didn't go that route... I'm not saying that a game that was a clone of DnD or closer to the roots wouldn't have a playerbase, but it's a hard sell. People don't want to be forced to guess about stats and customization... if they did they would be playing pen and paper, and not an MMORPG. It's also way too hard to balance what you describe for multiplayer.
As far as the roleplaying, I do feel that they should have a roleplaying server. Again, many just aren't interested in roleplaying... I love this game, but I am not interested in pretending to be anything or making up stories or anything, personally. I don't mind reading quests, unlike a lot of people - but I feel like forced roleplaying is just unreasonable.
BUT - I get that a lot of people expected that in a DnD game, so they should have their own RP server to build that kind of community on.
I just can't see developing a game that is actually that close to DnD, there wouldn't be any revenue in it really - even DDO had to go in a different route, although the game has been out longer so there is more content/classes, and theres the roll system there and some combat similarities. The problem with that style of combat is it is frustrating and feels outdated, so again not a huge draw for any kind of significant player base.
The game has been reduced to just sitting in town queueing for dungeon to farm equipment, and it even does that wrong in many ways.
Placing you in the zone the dungeon is in after? Stupid.
As for "no roleplay" - that's on the players, not on the devs. They gave us the tools, we have to decide what to do with them.
But at the moment the quest are essentially go from point A to point B , kill stuff. Not the player fault as it is only what the tools allow, but it is wasted potential, when you see the great quest and description some do, and imagine what could be done with those two aforementionned functionalities....
Well im not sure about that, it has D&D stats, it has D&D skills, you still have to guess if you don't know what your doing. But they have missed out ALL the things that make D&D great.
There is NO variety. The classes have different mechanics but in the end the game is purely combat.
I dislike intensely how games these days are all dumbed down because "there's no market" a: because it's simply not true. All you have to do is look at a game like EVE online to see that difficult, interesting , pioneering games can be a success.
and b: because if you pander to stupid people you just foster that sort of behaviour. You provide easy options people take them. In the same way that people exploit flaws in the game. In the end these people are cheating themselves, there is so much more richness and immersion and via that more enjoyment to be had.
Unfortunatly Neverwinter doesnt even give you the tools to do that.
This isn't the case. The game has nothing to promote Roleplay of any kind. The missions require only the most basic forms of teamwork, which precludes people playing their class properly. There are no moral or ethical choices in the story whatsoever , which gives no chance for people to be even in the most simplistic way "good or evil".
There is no player interaction besides trading and talking. So there are no repercussions for you actions between players.
The most evil players in this game are people that click "need" on items they cant use and AFK PvPers lol.
You cannot customise your character in any meaningful way to differentiate yourself from other players, which is the root of roleplay in many ways.
There are no tools to foster interaction or immersion. Its pure MMO, all people are interested in are loot and stats.
I'll disagree with that. While more custom outfits (aka cosmetics) wold be nice, what's already out there allows folks to get to a very unique look.
Tell me how many rogues you've seen that look like me (and that's only regular gear, some of which I crafted myself)...
What else would it be about? Everything else depends on the campaign setting and your GM.
It's not that there is not a market, or that the game has to be dumbed down... I myself am into hardcore raiding-esque very high difficulty level content... and I'm told frequently there is no market for that - so I get what you are saying. The fact is there is a market, but it's not big enough to support the development quality that is now expected by gamers. Eve online is basically ancient, the playerbase was established when there were no alternate games for the genre really. The gaming climate IS different - that would be like me pointing to EQ1 and being like "see, there is a market for hardcore pve!" - I only wish.
As far as roleplaying goes, don't see much that an RP server wouldn't fix - you are basically saying no one communicates in that way, it's because again, many people just don't want that. You'd need to be in a group of likeminded people, and since it is an mmorpg it isn't going to be like that on a regular server unless you make a guild. The foundry I'm sure is in initial stages just like everything else.
Well it is true, it isn't DnD but it was never promised to be.
The medium is all wrong for DnD anyway. You aren't going to have live dungeon masters moderating everything you do, balancing encounters on the fly or dynamically creating storylines. It just is not in the cards for this kind of environment right now.
What you can get is this sort of automated game -- not DnD -- but it is an mmo.
So what you get is a DnD themed mmo.
I agree that Foundry authors need more tools, but even with what there is, it is possible to create more than simple A to B, kill X quests, but it takes some lateral thinking and 'tricks'.
I totally agree to the part: "This is not D&D"
Ths is a simple hack & slash single player dungeon game.
The spirit of true D&D is the simple fact, that you as class X cannot solve all problems in the quests, so you have, at least sometimes, to team up with fitting comrades.
The second part, that is not D&D is the simplified feats and skills system, included the nonexistent weapon choices. All chars are basicly the same. There are NO differences between the chars of one class. You cannot play a char your way. You are forced to play it the designed way.
And don't forget, that the classes are totally unbalanced. The fighter classes are weak in combat, compared to the other classes. Yes, weak, squishy. Seriously, that is YOUR vision of "mighty warriors". That is not D&D either.
The game is fun, as hack and slash game, but the replay value is zero, because every class has to take the same way through the same quests. Hell, SWTOR has more replay value than this game and we (mostly) all know, how boring it became very fast.
But, at least they will get the players they are targeting for. Lots of casual gamers will love this game. It's something like fastfood in gameform. So think about lowering your prices to android games niveau. Otherwise they will spend no money on it.
Also :
No replay value? Why would you want replay value in an MMORPG? ... the point of an mmorpg is that it's a long-term investment into a character and continual play... not that you just start over once you 'beat' the game, because you never beat the game.
I'm so not trying to be the fangirl here but I'm perplexed by some of these expectations and how they came about, so I'm not trying to attack but seriously, can you explain why replay value in an mmo is a desirable thing? Or how you have come to think this is hack and slash?
How many encounters have you solved by talking or with a skill check?
Wow..that looks simply amazing, I need to do more crafting for my TR.
It's a good review and I agree with the OP it isn't AD&D, but it does have a 4th ed D&D vibe to it, which people like or don't depending.
You do know both of those things are possible with the foundry yes??
A skill check? I'm guessing a check against some kind of in game skill metric formula thing? Or is that not what you mean?
You don't do much for those in world of warcraft either insofar as 'talking' or 'skill checks' for encounters, and people don't call that a hack and slash, so why would this be a hack and slash due to missing that - and why would that not be considered a hack and slash since it's missing the same 'features'?
I know I'm coming off as totally argumentative, but again these arguments just aren't clicking for me. This was clearly intended to be a dnd based mmorpg - so why is the mmorpg model not good for you ?
And replay value. As real AD&D MMO player you want test the best possible build with different classes. It's boring to play only one class. So I am expecting, since "Dragon Age Origins" at least different starting stories. Even Age of Conan had different quest chains for the character classes. Replay value is very important for the lifetime of a MMORPG, not the WOW mindset of "only endcontent counts".
Talking with enemies. Play some old games like neverwinternights, and you know what we mean. Or play Dungeons and Dragons online for a while. Where you learn, that skills are, and how to use them.
And, btw., I think WoW is hack&slay, too. But I havn't played very long. Only one day for testing. After that I was so bored out of my mind, and couldn't play on.
I guess you would define EQ1, World of Warcraft, and just about every mmorpg in existence as hack and slash, with the exception of SWTOR. I saw you use dragon age origins as a reference, and that was what came to mind quite a bit for me during this discussion. There was a time when I was playing that game that I felt it would be really cool as a multiplayer, but honestly I would have wound up wanting raiding, and endgame, which to me pretty much is the point of mmorpgs. If I wanted storyline immersion, I'd be playing single player, if I wanted RP, theres pen & paper...
I really disagree with this definition of hack & slash, I think hack & slash is very few abilities and very simplistic combat & encounters that don't engage your brain whatsoever. I do feel like this game does, and has the potential in the future to continue to engage the player fully in combat, so I wouldn't call it a hack and slash exactly, I feel like that is just vastly oversimplifying things. Just wondering if your definition then applies to every other game without choice based character building?
Have to disagree with that. That's called 'min/maxing', aka power gaming. A 'real' player knows how to use their character in combination with other players strengths and weaknesses. Strategy and tactic are far more important than simply having the 'best build' (something might be the best for a particular task, but lacking at others). Read some Sun Tzu.
I think you either want a single-player RPG, or don't understand how MMOs work. You don't get branching stories or ethical choices in MMOs because it's nigh impossible to code. Although some Foundry missions do offer an experience closer to what you're looking for.
As for build variety, the game isn't even out of beta yet. this issue is nothing a few extra classes and paragon paths can't solve.
It's because hack and slash is all you do. The questing is all about killing, the crafting is fire and forget, check back in 2 hours. The dungeon crawling is all hack and slash, no D&D like puzzles, traps Ray Charles could see in a darkroom, Stories are weak and all about killing x amount of guys until you meet their boss, and then killing them.
D&D should make you feel like your decisions mean something. Your alignment should shift if you choose to do something in conflict with it. Your deity should get mad if you go against their doctrine, and you are a hero that brings them worship. There should be solo dungeon delves, based more on intelligence and less on sword arm.
It's just way to limited atm. I mean no one even knows how to use a bow yet? did we like forget? Why can't my rogue use a sword? or my cleric a shield and mace? Where are wizard staffs? wands? rods? magic items? so much is missing here. You could call Neverwinter, Jackville and no one would even realize they were playing a D&D game.
Since I dont want to appear to just be a hater I will say that I didnt have high hopes for this game at all but for a free to play game I was very suprised by the quality and although its waning a little I have had fun so far.
Because it's so dumbed down and twisted, that it's not D&D any longer. Simply as that. AD&D is an intelligent ruleset, that was built over decades. You cannot dumb it down, without knowing the background of these values and rules.
You can clearly see, how they botched it, if you look closely at the unbalanced character classes they made. These are the consequences of changing something, they did not understand in the slightest.