Some Rogues dont like the upcoming class balance!Why?

iy0t · May 2013

I dont understand why this Rogues doesnt like this comming class balance. They got everything all the love is on them right now and why they still complaining?

kattefjaes · May 2013

Make them generate enormous AoE threat, and it's all good.

pilf3r · May 2013

What up coming class balance?

drillsgt69 · May 2013

Class balancing? LOL - This is PWE/Cryptic. There will be no balancing. What you CAN expect, however, is more goodies in the cash shop.

kolbe11 · May 2013

drillsgt69 wrote: »

Class balancing? LOL - This is PWE/Cryptic. There will be no balancing. What you CAN expect, however, is more goodies in the cash shop.

While I would normally agree with you, NW is a bit different...

The reason being is that Wizards of the Coast/Forgotten Realms have a vested interest in this being a "True" D&D system that they can use for marketing their materials (Books from R.A. Salvatore, D&D Rulebooks, etc), I have absolutely no doubt that some amount of balance will happen. Go read up on the partnership and twitter comments made by both if you need further proof of that.

kevinf08 · May 2013

kolbe11 wrote: »

While I would normally agree with you, NW is a bit different...

The reason being is that Wizards of the Coast/Forgotten Realms have a vested interest in this being a "True" D&D system that they can use for marketing their materials (Books from R.A. Salvatore, D&D Rulebooks, etc), I have absolutely no doubt that some amount of balance will happen. Go read up on the partnership and twitter comments made by both if you need further proof of that.

Dungeons and dragons online also had the luxury of a WotC vested interest, didn't seem to affect the terrible balancing in that game. Although I will say the devs did try to balance, like twice.

pressexpose1 · May 2013

kolbe11 wrote: »

While I would normally agree with you, NW is a bit different...

The reason being is that Wizards of the Coast/Forgotten Realms have a vested interest in this being a "True" D&D system that they can use for marketing their materials (Books from R.A. Salvatore, D&D Rulebooks, etc), I have absolutely no doubt that some amount of balance will happen. Go read up on the partnership and twitter comments made by both if you need further proof of that.

Why don't you supply us with quotes and references that support this? Also talk is cheap. WotC may be working with cryptic to protect their baby ( and more likely teach these kids what it's all about. Cryptic may say that they are all d&d fans, they said they were all star trek fans, they said they were all marvel comic book fans. They say what they need to say to get the customer on board. ) but at the end of the day it's PWE that hold a license agreement with Hasbro for Neverwinter D&D.
As long as Hasbro feel that the brand is not being diminished ( subjective ) and the cheques roll in, there will be little interference. The boundaries will have long ago been set for cryptic and they won't stray beyond them. Hasbro are quick to pull rights from people who screw with them.

rezoned · May 2013

This game isn't anywhere close to a D&D rulebook

narathkor · May 2013

How about you point to this so called upcomming class balance and or the spots where the rogues do not like it. I believe you misread something somewhere.

kolbe11 · May 2013

pressexpose1 wrote: »

Why don't you supply us with quotes and references that support this?

My views are based off of the Alpha/Closed BETA NDA, various public lawsuit summaries between HASBRO, ATARI and PWE from 2009-11, comments made by devs over twitter and several online interviews. Some of the most glaring examples (also easiest to find) are as follows:

dezstravus wrote: »

Hey All,

We plan to look into class balance feedback in more detail in the near future. I do apologize that we have been receiving wonderful feedback from you guys, but have not been able to address it as quickly as we would have liked. As we move forward with the fixes for the current items at hand, we do plan on giving balance feedback an in-depth review and communicate with our players on that progress. Thanks for your patience, support, and understanding!

QUOTE: “What is important is that a fan of D&D will play the game and have a great experience true to the brand.”
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/01/cryptic-wizards-of-the-coast-arent-worried-about-dd-next-hurting-neverwinter-mmo/#iljh4AGR2khoT39U.99

QUOTE: "Wizards of the Coast says that the recent acquisition of Cryptic Studios by Perfect World Entertainment from Atari has pushed back the release date of the upcoming PC game Neverwinter, which was originally scheduled to release this Fall alongside a tie-in novel by fantasy author R.A. Salvatore. "
Read more at http://www.vgchartz.com/article/87587/hasbro-and-atari-settle-dampd-dispute-neverwinter-delayed/

^Shows relationship of brand between game and book releases.

pressexpose1 · May 2013

so, opinion. Carry on as you were.

wastingsanity · May 2013

I have no idea what you mean by class balancing. But... you can see them while stealthed at range, teleporting behind a target or stealthing does not break line of sight or interrupt abilities and some abilities have auto targetting, Crowd Control has no diminishing returns. Various feats are broken aka do not actually work in the rogue tree.

So how are rogues sitting pretty exactly? The chain crowd control or CC exploit is the ultimate lock down. This remove skill from the game since the enemy are just locking down a target with CC so they can not do anything.

cookjk · May 2013

Thought I would find out something since I am not playing any longer until they balance the melee classes. I have spent well over $600 on the game and really don't care if they don't balance the classes. Like playing ToS on AoC...****ing stupid!

hkiewa · May 2013

The lawsuit summaries....Cute

kolbe11 · May 2013

pressexpose1 wrote: »

so, opinion. Carry on as you were.

Problem is, unless you work for the company, NO ONE really knows for sure. The content stated publicly none the less insinuates such an action is eminent.

chozanone · May 2013

kolbe11 wrote: »

Problem is, unless you work for the company, NO ONE really knows for sure. The content stated publicly none the less insinuates such an action is eminent.

8 years of balancing later, I logged on to the World of Warcraft today, healers are now unkillable.

question, you want this game to waste their time trying to balance the game, I left wow just because of that, I would rather have new classes, new abilities, then a decent balance.

There will never be perfect balance in any mmo, they can buff a class and then the player could be terrible, same can be said about nerfing it.

tenkuro · May 2013

I play every class. My favorite is TR and GWF. If they nerf TR to the point where it can't be competitive, I'll just play my GWF. I'm usually ranked 1 on both classes and usually get the most kills on both classes. I highly doubt TR will be nerfed or GWF will be buffed, because to me, they are very balanced right now. The only times I get owned as TR or GWF is when my opponents are much better geared than I am.

I think the only things that will be fixed are the stacking of certain skills like astral shield to greatly imbalance team battles.

qiox · May 2013

kolbe11 wrote: »

“What is important is that a fan of D&D will play the game and have a great experience true to the brand.”
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/01/cryptic-wizards-of-the-coast-arent-worried-about-dd-next-hurting-neverwinter-mmo/#iljh4AGR2khoT39U.99

^Shows relationship of brand between game and book releases.

Well if it intends on being true to the brand then there will be no class balance. Class balance has always been a non-issue in D&D.

baaddare · May 2013

kolbe11 wrote: »

Quote Originally Posted by dezstravus View Post
Hey All,

We plan to look into class balance feedback in more detail in the near future. I do apologize that we have been receiving wonderful feedback from you guys, but have not been able to address it as quickly as we would have liked. As we move forward with the fixes for the current items at hand, we do plan on giving balance feedback an in-depth review and communicate with our players on that progress. Thanks for your patience, support, and understanding!
.

You do realize that quote does not say there will be class balancing.
nor do any of your quotes support your argument about rogues

floppyhorse · May 2013

anyone who has played DnD for even 12 seconds will realize that game is not balanced and is not supposed to be balanced.

this thread is OP complaining about rogues and being self-righteous.

and pretending that balance is first and foremost on NWN dev's minds when the AH isnt even back online is... pretty stupid.

tenkuro · May 2013

floppyhorse wrote: »

anyone who has played DnD for even 12 seconds will realize that game is not balanced and is not supposed to be balanced.

this thread is OP complaining about rogues and being self-righteous.

and pretending that balance is first and foremost on NWN dev's minds when the AH isnt even back online is... pretty stupid.

People don't understand that this game is extremely balanced compared to most, but they all want to have the class that does everything well. They choose a class like GF with the highest defense in the game, but want to be able to do the highest damage, be able to keep aggro on every single adds, and probably wants heals as well so they can be a paladin. If they understood the basic principles and roles of each class and worked well with their team, they wouldn't be complaining.

GF = High Defense, Keep aggro on the baddest monster and be able to tank it. Knock down to mitigate damage as well.
GWF = Moderate defense, aoe skills that can control adds effectively.
TR = High burst damage class that can DPS down single targets, but have low defense.
CW = High CC, high enfeeble damage, and decent aoe. Overall a well rounded class but have the lowest defense.
Cleric = Moderate defense with ability to be invincible for 15 seconds, a skill that can be kept up all the time with right recovery items to give yourself and your teammates very high defense and damage mitigation. Heals. Requires GWF or CW to control adds because heals will draw a lot of aggros from adds.

hydroman · May 2013

I have found that there is no way to have exact class balance in any game really. There is however a way to let each class have its day in the sun. By allowing each class to be at the top of their "dps,heals,damage taken, etc." We should expect this to continue for the life of the game with each new class they release.:cool:

tenkuro · May 2013

hydroman wrote: »

I have found that there is no way to have exact class balance in any game really. There is however a way to let each class have its day in the sun. By allowing each class to be at the top of their "dps,heals,damage taken, etc." We should expect this to continue for the life of the game with each new class they release.:cool:

Isn't it like that now? That's why I think the balance in this game is pretty awesome. That's why I'm still playing it.

broodmama21 · May 2013

tenkuro wrote: »

People don't understand that this game is extremely balanced compared to most, but they all want to have the class that does everything well. They choose a class like GF with the highest defense in the game, but want to be able to do the highest damage, be able to keep aggro on every single adds, and probably wants heals as well so they can be a paladin. If they understood the basic principles and roles of each class and worked well with their team, they wouldn't be complaining.

GF = High Defense, Keep aggro on the baddest monster and be able to tank it. Knock down to mitigate damage as well.
GWF = Moderate defense, aoe skills that can control adds effectively.
TR = High burst damage class that can DPS down single targets, but have low defense.
CW = High CC, high enfeeble damage, and decent aoe. Overall a well rounded class but have the lowest defense.
Cleric = Moderate defense with ability to be invincible for 15 seconds, a skill that can be kept up all the time with right recovery items to give yourself and your teammates very high defense and damage mitigation. Heals. Requires GWF or CW to control adds because heals will draw a lot of aggros from adds.

What class are you? maybe your a Rogue so you didnt feel the pain like kicking you in dungeon to find another class replacing you all the time. blaming you all the time. got killed by one shot in pvp. We have big huge 2h sword suppose to be a huge damge thn the throwing dagger..

crypticfail · May 2013

broodmama21 wrote: »

What class are you? maybe your a Rogue so you didnt feel the pain like kicking you in dungeon to find another class replacing you all the time. blaming you all the time. got killed by one shot in pvp. We have big huge 2h sword suppose to be a huge damge thn the throwing dagger..

This is true. maybe they never been there so they dont know how it is.

pressexpose1 · May 2013

qiox wrote: »

Well if it intends on being true to the brand then there will be no class balance. Class balance has always been a non-issue in D&D.

I concur: And if they want to keep classes as true to the genre as possible then they can do. Simply remove all aspects of pvp from the game and make Dungeons require a specific make up. No game with enough content and things to do needs to rely upon players making their own entertainment in pvp, right?

aftershafter · May 2013

pressexpose1 wrote: »

Cryptic may say that they are all d&d fans, they said they were all star trek fans, they said they were all marvel comic book fans. They say what they need to say to get the customer on board. ).

To be fair, almost every one of my old D&D buddies quite liked both comics and Star Trek. Video games, Star Wars, Battletech, Magic: The Gathering, and Warhammer too, just to name a few. Two of those old buddies work in video gaming these days. It's not exactly far fetched that large portion of a big group of programmers interested in gaming likes these things.

vrtesseract · May 2013

Rogues right now are considered the most OP class so no class "balancing" can be a good thing. It is like bring "Balance to the force" when the jedi rule everything.... its not a good thing for the jedi.

ranguren · May 2013

before else, if you think high burst damage or stacking debuff or else is glitch/bug or everything it is not. try to calculate again all the power, buff, feat, class skill before making any statement. some D&D rule is allowed to do so, and for Wizard of the Coast game, I'm not surprise, they also done it couple time in their card game of MTG

supjeremiah · May 2013

What balancing are Rogues complaining about exactly?

chuckwolf · May 2013

The TR doesn't need a nerf. All that's needed is to increase the per hit damage of the GWF and to a lesser extent the GF to reflect the 1d4 vs. 1d8 vs 2d6 damage of their weapons. The GF and GWF simply do not do enough damage per hit comparatively. They should be doing twice and 3 times the damage per hit respectively. The TR's higher hit rate should balance thing out. Also the damage the dailies do needs to be looked at especially the single target ones like Crescendo it bearly does 3000 damage at high levels (5K on a crit) where TR dailies can do upwards of 50K on a single attack. I know the TR's damage reflects the classic "backstab" but the GWF's most damaging single target allouit attack should be doing a lot more damage than it does.

Some Rogues dont like the upcoming class balance!Why?

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