While I disagree with pretty much everything else you said as there are those who enjoy rushing to the end I agree here that there needs to be a way to flag a particular quest to never display for you in the future. That way when I determine what content I like and dislike I don't have to keep digging through the dislike pile.
Isnt about rushing, its about the game being boring after the first go round. There is no replay value here and after experiencing some of the custom dungeons I highly prefer the xp grinds. There is a reason the custom made maps arn't played a lot, think about that.
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bigt983Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited May 2013
having more than one quest path does help replayability.....
Isnt about rushing, its about the game being boring after the first go round. There is no replay value here and after experiencing some of the custom dungeons I highly prefer the xp grinds. There is a reason the custom made maps arn't played a lot, think about that.
For you.. As I have said multiple times, Cryptic has to make sure the game is fun for more playstyles than one. Some prefer the long story driven, some want RP driven (meaning next to no combat, puzzles, etc) and some want hack and slash. Embracing the farming missions will get them MUCH further than trying to suppress them or removing parts of the tool.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
Isnt about rushing, its about the game being boring after the first go round. There is no replay value here and after experiencing some of the custom dungeons I highly prefer the xp grinds. There is a reason the custom made maps arn't played a lot, think about that.
Rather than keep being angry and making accusations and raging, I'm going to try looking at it from a different angle instead;
What is the point to leveling to endgame in a day?
Putting the cash items and foundry exploits aside and out of my mind; So your lvl 60 now and you can play all the content at max level. Which you will probably do once and never replay again because you've done it for the achievement. Are you actually involved int he game, doing raids and max level and having a good time, or is it just another notch on your belt and geek gamer cred to say 'been there, done that'?
I'd like to know the mentality of the speed leveler instead of just being angry about it <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with my RPG mechanics all the time.
Rather than keep being angry and making accusations and raging, I'm going to try looking at it from a different angle instead;
What is the point to leveling to endgame in a day?
Putting the cash items and foundry exploits aside and out of my mind; So your lvl 60 now and you can play all the content at max level. Which you will probably do once and never replay again because you've done it for the achievement. Are you actually involved int he game, doing raids and max level and having a good time, or is it just another notch on your belt and geek gamer cred to say 'been there, done that'?
I'd like to know the mentality of the speed leveler instead of just being angry about it <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with my RPG mechanics all the time.
Ardenn, I know enough of them to give you some insight on this stuff. First and foremost there is a very large spectrum of players who consider "end game" to be the ONLY game. They consider everything prior to it filler and work to be gotten through as fast as possible so they can start playing the "real game". These usually include PVP'ers, Raiders, as well as UGC'ers who prefer to play those at level 60 with all the abilities the class has rather than having to face them with the lower level "watered down" version. Guild Wars 1 solved that problem by actually allowing players to create max level characters for the purposes of those tasks that were kept separated from those who leveled their characters through to end game.
The next class of player is the notch on the headboard conqueror who NEEDS to not only complete it all but to do so in a "I pwned that ****" manner. It's not enough to be OCD and complete every task and quest but they have to do it in the fastest time or with the least gear, or whatever goal they set. There have always been guilds that crop up that offer challenges like "fastest to max while playing naked" or "fastest to max without doing any quests" etc.
The other player to consider is the gamer who feels it is their duty while the game is in beta to do it all, map it all, do all the theorycraft so their website will have guides for it all at release. These gamers often times do this for a great many games and move on after they have "done it all" but will come back after each major patch to fill in the blanks. Some of them actually enjoy the game and just want to document it for everyone else.
There are so many more playstyles that I simply don't have time to explain them, but that is the crux of this, we don't have to understand it to make sure they all get to have fun! Not to mention if done right with filters, and proper sorting you can enjoy your RPG while they enjoy their action MMO.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
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kimonagiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Hope they will fix it with next maintenance. Did an amazing quest series tonight and the only way i found it is by browsing the forums here. More XP farm quests kept popping up in "Best" tab last time i checked, find it really sad that people spend so many hours of their time to make great quests for us and are not even showing in the catalog unless you search by @handle.
Why are some of you people so hell-bent on taking away enjoyment from others? What difference does it make if you don't like farming up to level 60 easily and quickly? Does that mean nobody should be able to? What difference does it make if some people reach 60 quicker? What about people speeding to 60 really makes you angry? Also, numbers talk. Way more people WANT and RUN farm/exploit foundry levels than story based ones.
Removing the ogre pusher was ok, and even the rooms where ogres are in pits, but to remove the "20 Ogres" and "10 Ogres" maps? What is exploitative about those? It boggles my mind.
This is literally like watching a mad dog foaming at the mouth because another dog got a bone.
Let the story people have their own tab on the foundry and then have a grind section. You people speaking the loudest against foundries make up seven pages. People running so called exploitative foundries number in the hundreds PER before they are taken down. If you think that people who want fast xp abolished outnumber those who don't, you are wrong.
You can play however you like. If it disgusts you that people are hitting max level, you need to get out of the house more.
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glumm66Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
There are still a number of exploit quests active.
Why are some of you people so hell-bent on taking away enjoyment from others? What difference does it make if you don't like farming up to level 60 easily and quickly? Does that mean nobody should be able to? What difference does it make if some people reach 60 quicker? What about people speeding to 60 really makes you angry? Also, numbers talk. Way more people WANT and RUN farm/exploit foundry levels than story based ones.
Removing the ogre pusher was ok, and even the rooms where ogres are in pits, but to remove the "20 Ogres" and "10 Ogres" maps? What is exploitative about those? It boggles my mind.
This is literally like watching a mad dog foaming at the mouth because another dog got a bone.
Let the story people have their own tab on the foundry and then have a grind section. You people speaking the loudest against foundries make up seven pages. People running so called exploitative foundries number in the hundreds PER before they are taken down. If you think that people who want fast xp abolished outnumber those who don't, you are wrong.
You can play however you like. If it disgusts you that people are hitting max level, you need to get out of the house more.
This right here. I can understand getting rid of a map where the enemies are locked in a cube and you can just pew pew with no challenge... But why remove the mas that DIDNT do this? why removed the 20 ogre sewer map??
Why are some of you people so hell-bent on taking away enjoyment from others? What difference does it make if you don't like farming up to level 60 easily and quickly? Does that mean nobody should be able to? What difference does it make if some people reach 60 quicker? What about people speeding to 60 really makes you angry? Also, numbers talk. Way more people WANT and RUN farm/exploit foundry levels than story based ones.
Removing the ogre pusher was ok, and even the rooms where ogres are in pits, but to remove the "20 Ogres" and "10 Ogres" maps? What is exploitative about those? It boggles my mind.
This is literally like watching a mad dog foaming at the mouth because another dog got a bone.
I'm not bothered at all by what others do or how quick they get to max level by using those types of quests, it bothers me that they end up in the "best" list and that you need to come here and sometimes go thru dozens of forum pages to find what you like in-game.
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zaphtasticMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Taking away xp won't get people more plays, in fact it will get you less. People that care about story will find the content, but the people that would like to get the xp for the content will not play it, even if they are interested in the story. Since the grinds are dominating plays, that's what people want to play.
As far as my time versus player time, I've estimated that the content I released for another game (and an old one at that) at the same time as my NWO content got 1000x the player time. Deciding where to keep modding was a no brainer, since it certainly did not take 1000x the time to produce it.
This is an unfortunate truth, and it matches my experience in the COH MA. Lots of time investment, and basically no payoff unless you're only of the lucky top 10.
--
Here's an idea.. Add a genre tab to the comments section. Let the players rate which genre a foundry quest belongs in rather than the authors and include options like: Loot Farm, XP Farm, Story, Lore, RP, etc.
If the Dev's do anything beyond stopping exploits the "artists" start to lose tools to make compelling stories and the "kiddies" lose the ability to play hack and slash. If you let the player base police itself, then players who want story will sort based on missions tagged story while players looking for farm will sort based on that. Rather than fighting against it embrace it and harness it thus that you get the most out of it. There is room in this game for multiple play styles.
Yeah, this has been suggested... multiple times. I've been hounding the devs about this for MONTHS. Check the thread in my sig.
TLDR: we're not getting a tag system now, but one is in the works. Weeks? Months? Who knows!
Should tell you that most people dont care for the dungeon master type dungeons.
This is another sad truth. Most of the playerbase doesn't want to play stories made by amateurs, but they're fine with using the system to powerlevel.
In closing: I have nothing against farm maps. I don't mind if people rocket to level 60 in a day, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all. The only thing I object to is the entire foundry browser being covered in farm quests, smothering the 'story' authors' work. To fix that, we need a tag system... which, like I said, has been discussed multiple times over the last 2-3 months and is currently under development.
How about equalising the reward per time for the foundry quests up to maximum of 20 minutes (if you stay on the quest longer than 20 minutes you dont get any further benefits other than story if its long quest). So mobs in Foundry quests will not give experience or drops. At the end of the quest however there will be richer reward chest with this calculated amount of experience and drops per minutes spent on it.
This way there would be no "farming" in foundry, and people would play it for the fresh content, cause reward is always the same. It would be like an equally rewarding daily quest with constant stream of fresh stories and experiences.
So all that will differ the quests in the foundry then, would be the creative story and gameplay authors prepared. No difference in reward per minute tho. Isnt that what we all want? Foundry to be populated with players, but not turned into farmfest festival? My suggestion makes it perfect: reward as incentive to play them, and the only factor that will determine players choice of which one to play, will be the story and settings.
Then I'd quit using foundries. Sometimes I wanna go on a grand adventure. Sometimes I just wanna duel mobs in interesting ways, like wailing on an ogre or two with a GWF, then unleashing a massive super attack that rips apart entire packs of undead, or jumping in screaming with determination, sweeping my sword around while slamming the ground over and over. Blood and flopping rotten guts everywhere. You're free to have your grand adventures, but the second that mobs stop giving EXP, the second I stop using the Foundry at all.
If you want people to use the foundry beyond EXP, then I would highly suggest you talk to the devs about including tools to put bosses and cutscenes in the Foundry, that way you can create your own versions of Boss Rushes and End Game content. Your idea would actually work in something like that, actually, IE, demanding a certain amount of mobs on the map before you can spawn bosses. But at the current rate, I don't see the Foundry being there for anything other than a quick, interesting quest, or EXP grinding and training to deal with mobs.
On that note, thanks to Foundries, I'm the God of Stabbing Ogres. But seriously, we do need a better system in place for all of this. Legit maps are being torn down and broken ones being kept up. It's simply enraging to see them. I even quit an EXP group today because they were doing map that sometimes bugged out/exploited, sometimes ran just fine. I love doing EXP with a group, but not if people are spamming AOE/bugged content. I'm not getting roped into that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Should tell you that most people dont care for the dungeon master type dungeons.
. . . . . Actually, my Campaign has over 10,000 plays. It is a lore-story campaign and not even half done, 3 out of 8 planned missions. My first mission has almost 5,000 plays alone.
This is the obvious choice. Cryptic has never been that smart with obvious stuff.
Plus Perfect World Entertainment, who own Cryptic, are one of the worst offenders for letting scum get away with anything.
If someone gets their quests reported(and removed) several times, they are obviously up to no good and at the very least, should be completely banned from using the Foundry, and I mean IP banned. They can play the game if they wan't but they will be unable to screw over the Foundry anymore. I doubt they will ever play the game again, and good riddance. They are the type of low life's you don't want ruining your MMO community.
This is for obvious exploit quests, which you STILL see in the Foundry up in the top ten best list. I wont say what the exploit is, but it is in the description of the quest. and its like ranked #6.
As for all the bullcrap (and they are, I am sorry if you want to bypass 90% of the game, max out a character and then quit a month later saying "there is no content"...your **** fault") "XP TRAINER QUEST!!" , if they are not exploiting, then they should be moved to a seperate tab. If you want to grind out to 60 and ignore the game, then so be it, but these quests should not be interfering with the REAL quests. Yes I said it
REAL EFFING QUESTS!!!
This is fricking D&D for dog-sakes. It is about the stories and lore. If you don't want story or lore, then why the hell are you playing a Dungeons and Dragon game to begin with? There are a trillion Asian grind fests out there with zero story with your name on it. PWE owns half of them.
In any case, you should NEVER, and I mean NEVER EVER EVER see a "trainer" quest anywhere near the Best list. I would rather it full of quests ridden with spelling and grammar mistakes that at least tries to tell a interesting story, then "Oh Noes, 50 Ogres are rushing, kill them"
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anhedonic1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
I must admit that I played a few of those xp farming dungeons; they were quick and satisfied the daily requirement. That said, I'll not be sad to see them fixed. To be frank, they're dead boring, whatever your ethical stance on them. One thing I do hope is that, in locking down the system to prevent them, we don't end up defanging the foundry system; if rewards and xp become too systemically limited, then foundry quests will become all risk and no reward.
As for all the bullcrap (and they are, I am sorry if you want to bypass 90% of the game, max out a character and then quit a month later saying "there is no content"...your **** fault") "XP TRAINER QUEST!!" , if they are not exploiting, then they should be moved to a seperate tab. If you want to grind out to 60 and ignore the game, then so be it, but these quests should not be interfering with the REAL quests. Yes I said it
REAL EFFING QUESTS!!!
This is fricking D&D for dog-sakes. It is about the stories and lore. If you don't want story or lore, then why the hell are you playing a Dungeons and Dragon game to begin with? There are a trillion Asian grind fests out there with zero story with your name on it. PWE owns half of them.
This. A million times, This. I have 4 other Grindcore games I play. I was looking forward to Neverwinter begin full of ripe story and text and something to immerse myself into. I have been getting that but its getting harder to dig through and find real quests and not something that makes me feel like I'm playing Dungeon Defenders with less cartoony grafics.
I'm hesitant to try producing something if its going to get drowned out by exp spam.
Why not just lower the EXP granted by kills and make the end chest reward more EXP depending on how long the quest takes to complete.
Example bogus numbers:
The 50 ogres exploit quests that you complete in 10 minutes would give 20% of a full level.
A long quest that takes 60 minutes to complete gives 100% of a level. (excluding the encounter EXP, so it will be more like 120-130%)
A semi-long quest that takes 30 minutes to complete gives 50% of a level. (excluding the encounter EXP, so it will be more like 60-70%)
That way you can still level up by doing Foundry quests, but you will get most of your EXP by completing a long quest.
Imagine doing one of those 100min+ campaigns, that would give you a level or two, depending on the amount of encounters.
Why not just lower the EXP granted by kills and make the end chest reward more EXP depending on how long the quest takes to complete.
Example bogus numbers:
The 50 ogres exploit quests that you complete in 10 minutes would give 20% of a full level.
A long quest that takes 60 minutes to complete gives 100% of a level. (excluding the encounter EXP, so it will be more like 120-130%)
A semi-long quest that takes 30 minutes to complete gives 50% of a level. (excluding the encounter EXP, so it will be more like 60-70%)
That way you can still level up by doing Foundry quests, but you will get most of your EXP by completing a long quest.
Imagine doing one of those 100min+ campaigns, that would give you a level or two, depending on the amount of encounters.
This is hard to judge though. Is it based on how long you spend inside? Then a lot of player will just log into a Foundry quest, use some autorun macro and AFK for the hour.
Would be hard to balance. You would have a quest with 1 mob one one side of the map, and you just afk on the other, and in a hour run over kill the mob get the massive XP reward at the end.
REAL EFFING QUESTS!!!
This is fricking D&D for dog-sakes. It is about the stories and lore. If you don't want story or lore, then why the hell are you playing a Dungeons and Dragon game to begin with? There are a trillion Asian grind fests out there with zero story with your name on it. PWE owns half of them.
This is not D&D. This is an MMO. The difference being, we're playing a 'mechanics driven' Dungeon Crawling grindfest with no roleplaying aside from what players in RP Guilds choose to do, very little meaningful dialogue or plot beyond 'AARRGGGHHH A WITCH IS TERRORISING NEVERWINTARZ!,' and the main game is based around Microtransactions, Epic Loot and Cash/Resources. D&D is about Roleplaying and questing, though it can also be a grindfest dungeon crawler too- just not to this extreme extent. Dieties are flavour. Backstories are flavour. There is no 'Alignment' in this game. There are no statistical or functional differences between characters beyond class- this game might as well tell a story in the same way Diablo does, because we're all clones of each other. Your character doesn't matter, we're all having the same experience!
Sure, it has a license, and sure it uses some 4th Edition flavour, but don't go fooling yourself into thinking that this game is a true and authentic representation of the Roleplaying game when in actual fact it's World of Warcraft circa 2005 with better graphics and more (AND less.) to pay for.
Now, with that out of the way, I'm very glad that Foundry exploits are gone, BUT the system needs to change in order to better categorize Foundry Quests, because as it stands I see the same ones on the front page day in and day out. Also, reducing rewards and XP is a bandaid on a gunshot wound- it won't stop the leaking, and may not even buy you any time. This needs to be looked at, and looked at hard.
This is hard to judge though. Is it based on how long you spend inside? Then a lot of player will just log into a Foundry quest, use some autorun macro and AFK for the hour.
Would be hard to balance. You would have a quest with 1 mob one one side of the map, and you just afk on the other, and in a hour run over kill the mob get the massive XP reward at the end.
People will not do that as it is not a quick way of leveling, if you get 1 level every hour by standing AFK. It takes 60 hours to reach level 60.
Or another way of doing it would be to account for the number of encounters killed into the EXP reward. If 60 minutes gives you 50% EXP and each encounter killed gives 1-10% depending on the encounter difficulty, then it could be possible that most 60 minute quests give 100% experience. You will also get the monster kill EXP, which will give you almost the same number that I wrote before, around 100-130% experience.
This is not D&D. This is an MMO. The difference being, we're playing a 'mechanics driven' Dungeon Crawling grindfest with no roleplaying aside from what players in RP Guilds choose to do, very little meaningful dialogue or plot beyond 'AARRGGGHHH A WITCH IS TERRORISING NEVERWINTARZ!,' and the main game is based around Microtransactions, Epic Loot and Cash/Resources. D&D is about Roleplaying and questing, though it can also be a grindfest dungeon crawler too- just not to this extreme extent. Dieties are flavour. Backstories are flavour. There is no 'Alignment' in this game. There are no statistical or functional differences between characters beyond class- this game might as well tell a story in the same way Diablo does, because we're all clones of each other. Your character doesn't matter, we're all having the same experience!
Sure, it has a license, and sure it uses some 4th Edition flavour, but don't go fooling yourself into thinking that this game is a true and authentic representation of the Roleplaying game when in actual fact it's World of Warcraft circa 2005 with better graphics and more (AND less.) to pay for.
Now, with that out of the way, I'm very glad that Foundry exploits are gone, BUT the system needs to change in order to better categorize Foundry Quests, because as it stands I see the same ones on the front page day in and day out. Also, reducing rewards and XP is a bandaid on a gunshot wound- it won't stop the leaking, and may not even buy you any time. This needs to be looked at, and looked at hard.
Just because PWE came in and ruined the rest of the game, does not mean the Foundry can not be used to keep the D&D spirit alive. That is the only thing I care about. Everyone can have their grindfest, F2P, expensive cash shop based MMO.
The Foundry is the Foundry. It is the heart and soul of the game IMO, and should not be corrupted by the likes of people that have such short attention spans they don't want to bother to read. THAT is D&D, reading and story telling, and THAT is the Foundry.
Say what you want, but the Foundry exists for ONE SOLE PURPOSE. To put the Pen and Paper essence of D&D in a digital, interactive format. It is due to the grind heavy, cash-based, souless MMO aspect of the NWO that drags all the miscreants in who just want to rush through all the content as soon as possible, so they can go find another game top play.
If Cryptic was not bought out by PWE, and had some decent management(STO was starting to go cash grab long before it went F2P) then the actual Neverwinter game would not feel like some cheap salesmen trying to sell you empty(and expensive) promises.
However, the Foundry has a chance to redeem the entire game, if only Cryptic can show it cares enough about the D&D heritage to protect it (and more likely keep PWE grubby, filthy, greedy pathetic hands out of Cryptic trying to run the game..i swear Perfect World Entertainment just needs to go bankrupt, fall off the face of the earth, and sell Cryptic to a company that cares)
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
Just because PWE came in and ruined the rest of the game, does not mean the Foundry can not be used to keep the D&D spirit alive. T
The DnD spirit is alive, you're just looking in the wrong place.
/bonus: you can do whatever the heck you feel like
//added bonus: even add new content
I thought folks might be interested in STO's current "top-rated" list of missions, after 2 years of dealing with these issues. I have classified these missions into two camps: story and farming. Typically, a story mission shows a lot of time spent creating the mission, while the farming missions are pretty obviously slapped together in a few hours or a few days. Some are more detailed than others. So here goes. STO's "top-rated" missions after two years, as of today:
1. Repairing Utopia Planitia (story)
2. Picking Up the Pieces (?) - It has 1 review of 5 stars
3. The Interwarp Experiment (story)
4. Avenging Resolution (story)
5. Battleship Royal Rumble (farming)
6. Admiral Bobo Goes to War (farming)
7. Star Trek Allegiance, part 3 (story)
8. A Day as a Dental (?)
9. This Far No Further (story)
10. Admiral Bobo Goes to War [Easy] (farming)
11. Dark Alliance 2 (story)
12. Battlegroup Chaos Rumble (farming)
13. No Prize for Second Contact II (story)
14. Star Trek Allegiance 2 (story)
15. In the Shadow of Midas (story)
16. The Iconian Connection (story)
17. Finding Lascaux (story)
18. Fed Farm 102 ACD (farming)
19. No Prize for First Contact 1 (story)
20. The Wave Empire (story?)
21. Past Mistakes (story)
22. The Ghost War (story)
23. Fekiiri Ground Accolade (farming)
24. Romulan Ground Accolade (farming)
25. Undine Ground Accolae (farming)
26. Mirror Wars (story?)
27. Farm 101 ACD (farming)
28. Ghost of War, 6 (story)
29. A Blast fro the Past (story)
30. Grizz's Farmers: Siren star (farming)
31. Farm 101 ESD (farming)
32. Emissary of the Pah-Wraiths (story)
33, Mirror Wars, part 6 (story)
34. Infected Ground Training (tutorial of sorts)
35. The Grinder: Doom the Dominion (farming)
36. Farm 101 DS9 (farming)
37. Ad Majorem (story?)
38. Thicker than Water (story)
39. Qwark the Farmer (farming)
40. Garden of the Dead (story)
41. Hirogen Ground Accolade (farming)
42. Last of the Askkarr (story)
43. Broken Mirror
44. Boff Grinder: Klingon Begone (AFK farming)
45. Devidian Ground Accolade (farming)
46. Treasure of Argelius (story)
47: The Crossing, part 15 (story)
48. Color that Bleed (story)
49. Welcome to the 10th fleet (training)
50. Southland1-3 (?)
Those are the top-rated. Our listings of "new" has about 400 exploits that recently got squashed. The "hot" list is also full of past exploits and farming. It is very difficult to find a story mission that I haven't played. Mostly, authors who write stories have to rely on other means than the lists.
Dieties are flavour. Backstories are flavour. There is no 'Alignment' in this game. There are no statistical or functional differences between characters beyond class- this game might as well tell a story in the same way Diablo does, because we're all clones of each other. Your character doesn't matter, we're all having the same experience!
.... Im a Roleplayer by nature so I actually missed this initially. Now that Im thinking about it; where the hell is my alignment bar? Wheres the quests I should be getting based on how much of a ******bag I am? Then again, I havnt seen a company do a GOOD alignment system yet. Maybe its too hard to code? ... Or Devs are just lazy.
I had thought the Deity I was praying to had specific buffs at the prayer alters, but I havnt compared with other players yet.
Really, reading this thread has just been depressing and some proof I need to not post when Im drunk and angry. :P
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igrat420Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You people crying about" farm maps" are annoying as hell. there's no difference between these maps, and quest in the game already to kill x amount of mobs. not everyone who plays this game is going to play it to read the lore or is into lore like the people crying about their maps not getting played. this is not to be confused with the exploiting maps where they are using knock backs etc. if I want to kill 50 ogres with no bull**** rp inbetween them then so be it. who are you to tell me I should play your map because it has a story I could care less about.
I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't be doing it cannot do it but instead that the EXP awarded should be limited to a reasonable amount. Personally, I like playing where I'm up against insurmountable odds and tend to agree with most players about being able to fight crazy encounters without much inbetween. What I do not agree with is this type of desired game play expereince being exploited for EXP because it tarnishes those of us who actually do enjoy the content and don't care about leveling.
Big nasty fights should be ok. Big nasty fights with all kinds of nasty tough mobs should be very much ok. The same fights awarding an unnatural amount of EXP beyond the standard scope of the game should not be ok.
EXP should be trivial against mobs in Foundry quests and the bulk of the award should be presented at the end or at various stages. The awarded exp should be based around the average time required to defeat the Foundry quest, player level and the difficulty of the mobs.
p.s. I do realize that skipping content and playing only at level cap is a "playstyle" for some people.
There's going to keep making exploit maps no matter what we do all we can do is review flag, and move on.
neverwinter: PEINEXDEM(warlock)31*----PEINEX(trickster rouge)70
ethersaga: PEINEXDEM(yaoh conjurer)75* http://www.youtube.com/c/ridingwithwolftvv I used to be an adventure like you until I took a dagger to the chest
The problem is, how you will recognize if a map is allowed or not?. I never met any exploit map but I leveled up to 60 mostly by questing, and it took me a lot almost 3 days of gameplay I think, but I plan to use foundry for my alt to see something different as the few dungeons I saw on the foundry, were amazing. However, my favorite type of dungeon are arena against big mobs where you use strategy to succed, the harder the better, even I tried to solo a two man arena map and after 80 pots I had to leave, my problem is, are those farming maps?, if I level up by only arena maps is bad now?, that insecurity ruins the fun for me, I like farming maps when I feel more arcade and when I feel more rpg I just explore and read the lore books or something.
. . . . . Actually, my Campaign has over 10,000 plays. It is a lore-story campaign and not even half done, 3 out of 8 planned missions. My first mission has almost 5,000 plays alone.
And good job on that by the way. It's thus far the only campaign that I've played through "fully" (all 3 parts that are there right now)
Separating the missions into categories would fix all the actual problems. Story missions could be listed on their own and grind-fests wouldn't push them off the listings. The UI for the foundry missions needs a serious rework. I would even like to see the campaigns able to be listed on their own as well.
People also seem to think the rewards are an issue and they kind of are. If you were to chose to level off of foundry content you would be horribly undergeared in no time at all. The end chest is always a white item and white items are, after about level 10, of no use whatsoever. Adding in selectable reward groups would be nice as well so you could chose item/consumables/tradeskill and run missions for whatever you need at the time.
Rewards are also an issue for what you can create. Longer missions go from being cool to being tedious when you can't reward people appropriately (combat heavy adventures work better here at least). The same is true for challenge. I, for instance, ran the first dungeon in the game with just two people. It took a while but we defeated it and had lots of fun. I would love to create things with which to challenge people but there is no way to create dungeon like encounters and bosses nor can you reward people for it if there were.
Oh well I guess these will always be the limitations on user content in this context. Something like Neverwinter Nights will always be superior in this respect since you can build anything you want from epic to low-brow and everyone can get what they want.
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
.... Im a Roleplayer by nature so I actually missed this initially. Now that Im thinking about it; where the hell is my alignment bar? Wheres the quests I should be getting based on how much of a ******bag I am? Then again, I havnt seen a company do a GOOD alignment system yet. Maybe its too hard to code? ... Or Devs are just lazy.
I had thought the Deity I was praying to had specific buffs at the prayer alters, but I havnt compared with other players yet.
Really, reading this thread has just been depressing and some proof I need to not post when Im drunk and angry. :P
Prayer buffs are not deity specific. It literally makes no difference what deity or background you select, additionally there's no checking of appropriateness of these things, my human was "exiled by his race from the underdark". Amusingly you see reviews of the game where they claim your background influences the start of the game (looking at you Rock Paper Shotgun) and how you get to Neverwinter. It's one way to know the review is full of it, as that was never the case.
I just kind of assumed Cryptic was made up of some preppy guy, a hot chick, a nerdy chick, a stoner, and a talking dog, and they only worked at one thing at a time. I got this impression from the fact all their games seem to run off one server. >.>
Comments
For you.. As I have said multiple times, Cryptic has to make sure the game is fun for more playstyles than one. Some prefer the long story driven, some want RP driven (meaning next to no combat, puzzles, etc) and some want hack and slash. Embracing the farming missions will get them MUCH further than trying to suppress them or removing parts of the tool.
Rather than keep being angry and making accusations and raging, I'm going to try looking at it from a different angle instead;
What is the point to leveling to endgame in a day?
Putting the cash items and foundry exploits aside and out of my mind; So your lvl 60 now and you can play all the content at max level. Which you will probably do once and never replay again because you've done it for the achievement. Are you actually involved int he game, doing raids and max level and having a good time, or is it just another notch on your belt and geek gamer cred to say 'been there, done that'?
I'd like to know the mentality of the speed leveler instead of just being angry about it <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with my RPG mechanics all the time.
Ardenn, I know enough of them to give you some insight on this stuff. First and foremost there is a very large spectrum of players who consider "end game" to be the ONLY game. They consider everything prior to it filler and work to be gotten through as fast as possible so they can start playing the "real game". These usually include PVP'ers, Raiders, as well as UGC'ers who prefer to play those at level 60 with all the abilities the class has rather than having to face them with the lower level "watered down" version. Guild Wars 1 solved that problem by actually allowing players to create max level characters for the purposes of those tasks that were kept separated from those who leveled their characters through to end game.
The next class of player is the notch on the headboard conqueror who NEEDS to not only complete it all but to do so in a "I pwned that ****" manner. It's not enough to be OCD and complete every task and quest but they have to do it in the fastest time or with the least gear, or whatever goal they set. There have always been guilds that crop up that offer challenges like "fastest to max while playing naked" or "fastest to max without doing any quests" etc.
The other player to consider is the gamer who feels it is their duty while the game is in beta to do it all, map it all, do all the theorycraft so their website will have guides for it all at release. These gamers often times do this for a great many games and move on after they have "done it all" but will come back after each major patch to fill in the blanks. Some of them actually enjoy the game and just want to document it for everyone else.
There are so many more playstyles that I simply don't have time to explain them, but that is the crux of this, we don't have to understand it to make sure they all get to have fun! Not to mention if done right with filters, and proper sorting you can enjoy your RPG while they enjoy their action MMO.
Removing the ogre pusher was ok, and even the rooms where ogres are in pits, but to remove the "20 Ogres" and "10 Ogres" maps? What is exploitative about those? It boggles my mind.
This is literally like watching a mad dog foaming at the mouth because another dog got a bone.
Let the story people have their own tab on the foundry and then have a grind section. You people speaking the loudest against foundries make up seven pages. People running so called exploitative foundries number in the hundreds PER before they are taken down. If you think that people who want fast xp abolished outnumber those who don't, you are wrong.
You can play however you like. If it disgusts you that people are hitting max level, you need to get out of the house more.
This right here. I can understand getting rid of a map where the enemies are locked in a cube and you can just pew pew with no challenge... But why remove the mas that DIDNT do this? why removed the 20 ogre sewer map??
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?201492-20-Ogre-Sewer-gone-Why&p=2738322#post2738322
I'm not bothered at all by what others do or how quick they get to max level by using those types of quests, it bothers me that they end up in the "best" list and that you need to come here and sometimes go thru dozens of forum pages to find what you like in-game.
The same thing happened in City of Heroes in 2009 or so. I guess that entire 'learn from the past' thing is overrated.
-- This is an unfortunate truth, and it matches my experience in the COH MA. Lots of time investment, and basically no payoff unless you're only of the lucky top 10.
-- Yeah, this has been suggested... multiple times. I've been hounding the devs about this for MONTHS. Check the thread in my sig.
TLDR: we're not getting a tag system now, but one is in the works. Weeks? Months? Who knows!
-- This is another sad truth. Most of the playerbase doesn't want to play stories made by amateurs, but they're fine with using the system to powerlevel.
In closing: I have nothing against farm maps. I don't mind if people rocket to level 60 in a day, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all. The only thing I object to is the entire foundry browser being covered in farm quests, smothering the 'story' authors' work. To fix that, we need a tag system... which, like I said, has been discussed multiple times over the last 2-3 months and is currently under development.
Getting good content to players in the Foundry - challenges and solutions
Handle: @zaphtastic
Then I'd quit using foundries. Sometimes I wanna go on a grand adventure. Sometimes I just wanna duel mobs in interesting ways, like wailing on an ogre or two with a GWF, then unleashing a massive super attack that rips apart entire packs of undead, or jumping in screaming with determination, sweeping my sword around while slamming the ground over and over. Blood and flopping rotten guts everywhere. You're free to have your grand adventures, but the second that mobs stop giving EXP, the second I stop using the Foundry at all.
If you want people to use the foundry beyond EXP, then I would highly suggest you talk to the devs about including tools to put bosses and cutscenes in the Foundry, that way you can create your own versions of Boss Rushes and End Game content. Your idea would actually work in something like that, actually, IE, demanding a certain amount of mobs on the map before you can spawn bosses. But at the current rate, I don't see the Foundry being there for anything other than a quick, interesting quest, or EXP grinding and training to deal with mobs.
On that note, thanks to Foundries, I'm the God of Stabbing Ogres. But seriously, we do need a better system in place for all of this. Legit maps are being torn down and broken ones being kept up. It's simply enraging to see them. I even quit an EXP group today because they were doing map that sometimes bugged out/exploited, sometimes ran just fine. I love doing EXP with a group, but not if people are spamming AOE/bugged content. I'm not getting roped into that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
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This is the obvious choice. Cryptic has never been that smart with obvious stuff.
Plus Perfect World Entertainment, who own Cryptic, are one of the worst offenders for letting scum get away with anything.
If someone gets their quests reported(and removed) several times, they are obviously up to no good and at the very least, should be completely banned from using the Foundry, and I mean IP banned. They can play the game if they wan't but they will be unable to screw over the Foundry anymore. I doubt they will ever play the game again, and good riddance. They are the type of low life's you don't want ruining your MMO community.
This is for obvious exploit quests, which you STILL see in the Foundry up in the top ten best list. I wont say what the exploit is, but it is in the description of the quest. and its like ranked #6.
As for all the bullcrap (and they are, I am sorry if you want to bypass 90% of the game, max out a character and then quit a month later saying "there is no content"...your **** fault") "XP TRAINER QUEST!!" , if they are not exploiting, then they should be moved to a seperate tab. If you want to grind out to 60 and ignore the game, then so be it, but these quests should not be interfering with the REAL quests. Yes I said it
REAL EFFING QUESTS!!!
This is fricking D&D for dog-sakes. It is about the stories and lore. If you don't want story or lore, then why the hell are you playing a Dungeons and Dragon game to begin with? There are a trillion Asian grind fests out there with zero story with your name on it. PWE owns half of them.
In any case, you should NEVER, and I mean NEVER EVER EVER see a "trainer" quest anywhere near the Best list. I would rather it full of quests ridden with spelling and grammar mistakes that at least tries to tell a interesting story, then "Oh Noes, 50 Ogres are rushing, kill them"
This. A million times, This. I have 4 other Grindcore games I play. I was looking forward to Neverwinter begin full of ripe story and text and something to immerse myself into. I have been getting that but its getting harder to dig through and find real quests and not something that makes me feel like I'm playing Dungeon Defenders with less cartoony grafics.
I'm hesitant to try producing something if its going to get drowned out by exp spam.
Example bogus numbers:
The 50 ogres exploit quests that you complete in 10 minutes would give 20% of a full level.
A long quest that takes 60 minutes to complete gives 100% of a level. (excluding the encounter EXP, so it will be more like 120-130%)
A semi-long quest that takes 30 minutes to complete gives 50% of a level. (excluding the encounter EXP, so it will be more like 60-70%)
That way you can still level up by doing Foundry quests, but you will get most of your EXP by completing a long quest.
Imagine doing one of those 100min+ campaigns, that would give you a level or two, depending on the amount of encounters.
This is hard to judge though. Is it based on how long you spend inside? Then a lot of player will just log into a Foundry quest, use some autorun macro and AFK for the hour.
Would be hard to balance. You would have a quest with 1 mob one one side of the map, and you just afk on the other, and in a hour run over kill the mob get the massive XP reward at the end.
This is not D&D. This is an MMO. The difference being, we're playing a 'mechanics driven' Dungeon Crawling grindfest with no roleplaying aside from what players in RP Guilds choose to do, very little meaningful dialogue or plot beyond 'AARRGGGHHH A WITCH IS TERRORISING NEVERWINTARZ!,' and the main game is based around Microtransactions, Epic Loot and Cash/Resources. D&D is about Roleplaying and questing, though it can also be a grindfest dungeon crawler too- just not to this extreme extent. Dieties are flavour. Backstories are flavour. There is no 'Alignment' in this game. There are no statistical or functional differences between characters beyond class- this game might as well tell a story in the same way Diablo does, because we're all clones of each other. Your character doesn't matter, we're all having the same experience!
Sure, it has a license, and sure it uses some 4th Edition flavour, but don't go fooling yourself into thinking that this game is a true and authentic representation of the Roleplaying game when in actual fact it's World of Warcraft circa 2005 with better graphics and more (AND less.) to pay for.
Now, with that out of the way, I'm very glad that Foundry exploits are gone, BUT the system needs to change in order to better categorize Foundry Quests, because as it stands I see the same ones on the front page day in and day out. Also, reducing rewards and XP is a bandaid on a gunshot wound- it won't stop the leaking, and may not even buy you any time. This needs to be looked at, and looked at hard.
People will not do that as it is not a quick way of leveling, if you get 1 level every hour by standing AFK. It takes 60 hours to reach level 60.
Or another way of doing it would be to account for the number of encounters killed into the EXP reward. If 60 minutes gives you 50% EXP and each encounter killed gives 1-10% depending on the encounter difficulty, then it could be possible that most 60 minute quests give 100% experience. You will also get the monster kill EXP, which will give you almost the same number that I wrote before, around 100-130% experience.
Just because PWE came in and ruined the rest of the game, does not mean the Foundry can not be used to keep the D&D spirit alive. That is the only thing I care about. Everyone can have their grindfest, F2P, expensive cash shop based MMO.
The Foundry is the Foundry. It is the heart and soul of the game IMO, and should not be corrupted by the likes of people that have such short attention spans they don't want to bother to read. THAT is D&D, reading and story telling, and THAT is the Foundry.
Say what you want, but the Foundry exists for ONE SOLE PURPOSE. To put the Pen and Paper essence of D&D in a digital, interactive format. It is due to the grind heavy, cash-based, souless MMO aspect of the NWO that drags all the miscreants in who just want to rush through all the content as soon as possible, so they can go find another game top play.
If Cryptic was not bought out by PWE, and had some decent management(STO was starting to go cash grab long before it went F2P) then the actual Neverwinter game would not feel like some cheap salesmen trying to sell you empty(and expensive) promises.
However, the Foundry has a chance to redeem the entire game, if only Cryptic can show it cares enough about the D&D heritage to protect it (and more likely keep PWE grubby, filthy, greedy pathetic hands out of Cryptic trying to run the game..i swear Perfect World Entertainment just needs to go bankrupt, fall off the face of the earth, and sell Cryptic to a company that cares)
/bonus: you can do whatever the heck you feel like
//added bonus: even add new content
1. Repairing Utopia Planitia (story)
2. Picking Up the Pieces (?) - It has 1 review of 5 stars
3. The Interwarp Experiment (story)
4. Avenging Resolution (story)
5. Battleship Royal Rumble (farming)
6. Admiral Bobo Goes to War (farming)
7. Star Trek Allegiance, part 3 (story)
8. A Day as a Dental (?)
9. This Far No Further (story)
10. Admiral Bobo Goes to War [Easy] (farming)
11. Dark Alliance 2 (story)
12. Battlegroup Chaos Rumble (farming)
13. No Prize for Second Contact II (story)
14. Star Trek Allegiance 2 (story)
15. In the Shadow of Midas (story)
16. The Iconian Connection (story)
17. Finding Lascaux (story)
18. Fed Farm 102 ACD (farming)
19. No Prize for First Contact 1 (story)
20. The Wave Empire (story?)
21. Past Mistakes (story)
22. The Ghost War (story)
23. Fekiiri Ground Accolade (farming)
24. Romulan Ground Accolade (farming)
25. Undine Ground Accolae (farming)
26. Mirror Wars (story?)
27. Farm 101 ACD (farming)
28. Ghost of War, 6 (story)
29. A Blast fro the Past (story)
30. Grizz's Farmers: Siren star (farming)
31. Farm 101 ESD (farming)
32. Emissary of the Pah-Wraiths (story)
33, Mirror Wars, part 6 (story)
34. Infected Ground Training (tutorial of sorts)
35. The Grinder: Doom the Dominion (farming)
36. Farm 101 DS9 (farming)
37. Ad Majorem (story?)
38. Thicker than Water (story)
39. Qwark the Farmer (farming)
40. Garden of the Dead (story)
41. Hirogen Ground Accolade (farming)
42. Last of the Askkarr (story)
43. Broken Mirror
44. Boff Grinder: Klingon Begone (AFK farming)
45. Devidian Ground Accolade (farming)
46. Treasure of Argelius (story)
47: The Crossing, part 15 (story)
48. Color that Bleed (story)
49. Welcome to the 10th fleet (training)
50. Southland1-3 (?)
Those are the top-rated. Our listings of "new" has about 400 exploits that recently got squashed. The "hot" list is also full of past exploits and farming. It is very difficult to find a story mission that I haven't played. Mostly, authors who write stories have to rely on other means than the lists.
.... Im a Roleplayer by nature so I actually missed this initially. Now that Im thinking about it; where the hell is my alignment bar? Wheres the quests I should be getting based on how much of a ******bag I am? Then again, I havnt seen a company do a GOOD alignment system yet. Maybe its too hard to code? ... Or Devs are just lazy.
I had thought the Deity I was praying to had specific buffs at the prayer alters, but I havnt compared with other players yet.
Really, reading this thread has just been depressing and some proof I need to not post when Im drunk and angry. :P
I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't be doing it cannot do it but instead that the EXP awarded should be limited to a reasonable amount. Personally, I like playing where I'm up against insurmountable odds and tend to agree with most players about being able to fight crazy encounters without much inbetween. What I do not agree with is this type of desired game play expereince being exploited for EXP because it tarnishes those of us who actually do enjoy the content and don't care about leveling.
Big nasty fights should be ok. Big nasty fights with all kinds of nasty tough mobs should be very much ok. The same fights awarding an unnatural amount of EXP beyond the standard scope of the game should not be ok.
EXP should be trivial against mobs in Foundry quests and the bulk of the award should be presented at the end or at various stages. The awarded exp should be based around the average time required to defeat the Foundry quest, player level and the difficulty of the mobs.
p.s. I do realize that skipping content and playing only at level cap is a "playstyle" for some people.
ethersaga: PEINEXDEM(yaoh conjurer)75*
http://www.youtube.com/c/ridingwithwolftvv
I used to be an adventure like you until I took a dagger to the chest
And good job on that by the way. It's thus far the only campaign that I've played through "fully" (all 3 parts that are there right now)
Separating the missions into categories would fix all the actual problems. Story missions could be listed on their own and grind-fests wouldn't push them off the listings. The UI for the foundry missions needs a serious rework. I would even like to see the campaigns able to be listed on their own as well.
People also seem to think the rewards are an issue and they kind of are. If you were to chose to level off of foundry content you would be horribly undergeared in no time at all. The end chest is always a white item and white items are, after about level 10, of no use whatsoever. Adding in selectable reward groups would be nice as well so you could chose item/consumables/tradeskill and run missions for whatever you need at the time.
Rewards are also an issue for what you can create. Longer missions go from being cool to being tedious when you can't reward people appropriately (combat heavy adventures work better here at least). The same is true for challenge. I, for instance, ran the first dungeon in the game with just two people. It took a while but we defeated it and had lots of fun. I would love to create things with which to challenge people but there is no way to create dungeon like encounters and bosses nor can you reward people for it if there were.
Oh well I guess these will always be the limitations on user content in this context. Something like Neverwinter Nights will always be superior in this respect since you can build anything you want from epic to low-brow and everyone can get what they want.
It's funny because it's true!
@kmhknight
My campaign: The Madness Plague.
My quest: Blacklake Gold
My guild: "The Older" Age 30+, Casual