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Class-locked gear
meldroth
Member Posts: 137 Bounty Hunter
So we know that the gear will be class-locked (class bound). Now, for a while I played Realms Online, a grindy MMORPG with pretty good realm vs realm PvP and a low download. It also had class-locked armor and weapons. Sometimes it was weird because my Hunter (a beastmaster archer with tracking and camo) couldn't use Marksman (an "super" archer) bow and arrows. I hope that NW avoids that kind of thing. However, it was smallest complaint I had about Realms Online.
So while having class-locked armor and weapons does seem to just make it harder for the Devs to introduce new classes (since they will have to create new gear as well), as a player, as long as I can get a hold of the gear I need, it doesn't bother me much. That said, if more than two-thirds of my drops are stuff I can't hope to use simply because it is class-locked, it will be rather annoying.
So, yes, it is not the way I would have done it, but no, it is not a big deal to me. I'm cool with it.
What do you guys think?
So while having class-locked armor and weapons does seem to just make it harder for the Devs to introduce new classes (since they will have to create new gear as well), as a player, as long as I can get a hold of the gear I need, it doesn't bother me much. That said, if more than two-thirds of my drops are stuff I can't hope to use simply because it is class-locked, it will be rather annoying.
So, yes, it is not the way I would have done it, but no, it is not a big deal to me. I'm cool with it.
What do you guys think?
"Truth is absolute, so if you truly seek it, you can find only one answer."
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I also don't mind getting drops that are for other classes, that's how economies are born.
So long as there are many appearance options, and many stat options so we can avoid the "this is the best build for a warrior" scenario, then I have no problems with class locked gear.
Or, even better, maybe the article meant class-bound by way of the actual proficiency system or by "class" of armor. Yeah, probably not...
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Ah, I didn't see it! Sorry!
True, true.
Ditto.
No need to apologize.
To be honest though, despite having no problems with it, and assuming there are plenty of appearance and stat combinations, I don't entirely see what purpose class locking serves. I am interested to see more about their gear system.
IE: If you are a fighter, you do not get a scimitar for your class. However you may pick up the trait for scimitar proficiancy, using one of your trait points at character creation and or through out gaining levels through the game. This is only one very small example but showing that there shouldnt be any class bound/locked anything.
You should download DnD 4.0 pdf and read up on how it all works.
So to reiterate, items in general are proficiency based and each class has a set of proficiencies. Again can be modified via traits at a cost of using one of your precious trait points.
If you were a wizard and so choosed, you could weild a greatsword. It would not be a recomendation from me but if you so wanted to, its dnd and you could do so.
Edit: Would like to add to this. Armor works the same way. But armor in dnd has penalties. The heavier the armor, the higher the penalties. IE: if you are a caster wearing anything but light/cloth, you would begin to get spell failure chances that get increasingly higher, the heavier the gear.
(In that video, I forwarded to the time he speaks about Neverwinter's Rule-set. Keep in mind, the guy directly to his left, your right, in the WB shirt is representing DDO. The guy with the microphone is from WotC)
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Even NWN, BG, an all other D&D Games were not literal translations of their respective rule-sets. It would be a monumental feat to be able to replicate PnP digitally with no room for variable due to an MMO atmosphere. Heck, they even admit to not being able to follow 3rd edition to the letter for DDO.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
"That's a Paladins sword!!!"
Gee I don't know Elvis, if I walk over to you and jab you in the eye with it, it's going to hurt all the same right? I mean despite the fact that I'm a warrior?
:rolleyes:
As long as we don't go down that road I'm jake, if we do...sorry been there done that and another MMO that I'm testing already has told me that won't be an issue.
Don't you see though if the class based gear goes like other PWE games it will be very restrictive and severely limit gear set choices, DDO may have gotten many thing wrong but the freedom of choice when it comes to your gear is not one of them. This class based restriction is very anti DnD, it's suppose to work like b00mstick mentions.
There really is no good reason for class based gear other than to restrict player options and unlike some things that need to be tweaked because this is an mmo and not PnP this issues is not one of them.
Maybe if we are really lucky we will still have a good choice of different stats etc on armor but I wont hold my breath, I just hope those in alpha will be speaking their mind on this and that they have a similar point of view as I do.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
To the letter no. But it was very close. Close as you can pretty much get for a video game. But it was also more than just "inspiration".
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just stating what will make me walk away.
Aye I wasn't arguing
Whats that other game your testing btw?
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Can't say, they will send guys around. It's a upcoming fantasy based MMO
In WOW there are some slight problems with Ninjas, but at least if the Ninja is on the same server then a Guild can force(with social pressure) that player to return the item. That has happened me a few times I have gotten items back from Ninjas.
That said it is actually a benefit since we know it will have random loot drops. It will at least decrease the Ninja thing a lot which is good. However main thing for me is that game will not have silly Guild Wars 2 loot policy where you max your character in less then 2 weeks. It does not need to be everlasting WOW loot policy(never max character), but if you play 40 hours/week it should take many months to reach maximum power. I will have many characters.
instead of many months i would hope it would be a couple, not many people can play 40 hours a week esp with kids and work. on the flip side as typical of free mmos there will be some sort of throttle to limit how far you can progress each day/week (example being the good exp sources are on timers). then again being dungeons and dragons it should be more than just getting power and max level/gear it should be a fun experience enjoyable by all.
Sounds like you just want to play WoW really....a lot of us are pretty sick of it and this game will fail if it's another me too WoW clone. I have no desire to play a game where bully squads harass someone over a few pixels.
It would seemingly detract A LOT from character customization.
All wizards wear robes, all rogues wear leather, all clerics wear chain. BLEH.
I liked that A LOT and it seems like it wouldnt be that hard to implement into the system. Wizard takes a feat to unlock Rogue gear, which unlocks the next feat to wear Fighter gear.
Yeah that was my first thought when I saw class-locked gear. If they are borrowing from the 'concept' of 4e, it wouldnt be unheard of to let people pick a feat that lets them use <class> armor/weapons instead of weapon/armor profs.
If you are a developer claiming to stay true to DnD, and in this case, Cryptic has stated such in many preview interviews so far, it better damn be a DnD game and not just another clone or anything else. Otherwise, just simply take the DnD portion out of the game and do what you intend to do.
I am however not saying that it is happening here, i just really hope that im not getting "hyped" to play what is THE BEST RPG experience ever created - DnD - and get just another game claiming to be different, then log in and see a trinity talent tree.
Well you really can't say this is a PR scheme, cause the game really hasn't had any real PR.
Unless the marketing team is doing some kind of high brow covert PR that is eluding us. :rolleyes:
I was talking more about the dungeons and dragons in the title. Nothing less nothing more. And i know a lot about the game hasn't been released yet.
This was just in reply to things that were said at the beginning of this thread.
Also there have been plenty of preview interviews all stating that this game "is definately dnd". I will point out just one off the top of my head. The latest issue of PC Gamer.
So when the mod came in and said that the dnd rule set was used just as insparation and that it isnt literal, is when i got a bit pissy.
I have the solution to all your problems: make all items universally transmoggable. A simple solution to a problem that could turn into a balancing nightmare, or a PR head-ache if its a problem that goes unaddressed.
Because, realistically, it mostly has more to do with how you look instead of game mechanics (which sounds worse than it actually is because lets face it, we all want to look cool, even me), and personally, I'd rather keep the balancing head-aches to a minimum so the developers can focus their resources on cranking out quality stuff.
-Heavy Armor Wizard using Still Spell and -Battle Caster feat for Warlocks and Bards using Medium armor- to name a few.
And that's just talking about armors. What about weapons? People always came up with unique (and unusual) weapon choices such as a Greatsword-wielding Bard or a Bow Cleric.
Or if you want to get silly in 4e you can just play an Elf and BOOM-- Wizard with a prof for longsword and bow. Similar with dwarves and axes.
In 4e you have armor profs that go by 'type': Cloth (e.g. None) -> Leather -> Hide -> Chainmail -> Scale -> Plate. You wear armor outside of your prof you get a penalty to your attack and your reflex.
Could you make a Wizard in heavy armor? Sure. Not sure why you would, though. First it'd take a lot of your feats to do it and you lose out in your +AC from a high int. In 4e the +AC you get from a high DEX is actually DEX or INT. They both fall into the 'Reflex' category. So if you have 12 Dex, 20 INT you'd take the highest bonus (+5, from int) and that is your bonus to reflex checks and also armor IF you wear light (cloth, leather, hide) armor. It not unheard of to pick up 'Armor Prof (Leather)' since the feat has no requirements and gives ya some extra defense-- but going to hide is pretty silly since it takes 2 feats (Leather and then Hide) for basically 1 extra AC.
If you want that extra AC that bad, pick up a staff and go all 'Ye shall not pass' Staff Wizard.