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aeroth001
Member Posts: 420 Bounty Hunter
What about gods ? Will we have lore concerning the gods ?
Will we get the oportunity to join a certain church ? Or worship a certain deity and each deity give certain bonuses ?
That would be OP
Will we get the oportunity to join a certain church ? Or worship a certain deity and each deity give certain bonuses ?
That would be OP
Post edited by aeroth001 on
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Why would it be OP? Not withstanding the fact that no news on Gods or worshiper bonuses are available; if all characters had the chance to select from all NW Gods and receive a bonus... how is that overpowered?
Let's assume for a moment that Gods are able to be selected and that they give some bonus to the casual worshiper... the implementation of such could be entirely cosmetic. Or it could be a limited buff of equal value but different aspect. There are a myriad of implementation possibilities out there that wouldn't result in certain choices being overpowered.
If I may make a suggestion; outline how you think Gods and bonuses should and should not be implemented. That will give the forums a better starting point for discussion and provide the devs much better input if they wish to consider such for NWO.
Unfortunately, we're going to have to wait and see what the game holds in regards to the Powers. I would, however, love to hear some explanation and detail on just what would be Over Powered and why you feel this way, especially considering there is no game information to base such a speculation upon that pertains to any mechanics the Powers would play in the game itself.
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In pnp, there are particular paths and powers aligned to god though. For example paragon path of silverstar is for any class who worships Selune and can use implements. Similarly there are more paths like that with their own benefits and powers. Also, battle clerics can choose to worship a particular god getting bonuses for that. Gods now live in Astral sea, drifting in realms...
Not disputing but just to be clear for those less inclined to the details:
The Powers themselves are not "drifting" so to speak. They still each, some collectively, maintain Domains within the new shape of the Cosmos, which the Domains of the Gods is now known as the Astral Sea. It is these Domains that are drifting about the Astral Sea.
Much like the old order of the plane before the Cataclysm that was caused equally by the alignments of Abeir and Toril and the timing of Mystra's death that caused the Spellplague, the new shape of the Cosmos still has connections to the various Domains within it (Arvandor, for example, connects to several Domains within the Astral Sea and to the Elemental Chaos and Feywild) as well as outside connections to the Domains of the other planes beyond the Astral Sea. Such as the connection from Lolth's Demonweb Pits in the Astral Sea that connect to the Abyss beneath the Elemental Chaos.
Because of the new order of the Cosmos, it is much easier now for mortals to travel beyond Toril.
On a side note, the assassination of Mystra and the ensuing Spellplague gets far too much attention and credit as "being the cause" of all the changes in the Realms. The alignments of Abeir and Toril had just as much to do with all the reshaping of the World and the Cosmos as the Spellplague did. The main reason so much turmoil followed was because these two catastrophic events happened at the same time, which the alignments of Abeir and Toril allowed the Spellplague to rip between the veil that separated them. Basically, the Realms were hit with a double whammy.
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You'll have to pardon me good sir. My gamer vocabular took over me, OP in the meaning that incredibile good,very very nice, super,ultra likeable
p.s. it's all cyric fault
That'd make clerics pretty undesirable to play, though.
(I'm splitting hairs, of course!)
Why,lol i mean they are on domains not deities.Right ?
Clerics draw their power from faith itself, instead of deities now. So playing clerics without deity is possible. However, paragon paths exist for specific deities.
Will they be used?
DUN! DUN! DUN!
*suspense*
Also, there are also channeling feats for clerics connected with specific deities.
Yes, that why I pointed paragon paths can be specific to deities and the dramatic DUN! DUN! DUN! -meaning that basically we don't know how have they implemented it in game.
well in d&d the worshipers of a god would pray for certain spells and powers.
for example the worshipers of cyric would pray at night for spells of cyric, so it would be nice to have that implemented in the game. it would certany be unic among d&d pc games
Divine powers are called prayers in 4e, like rogue powers are called exploits and wizard's powers are called spells.
There are rituals like anointing weapon etc. which clerics can do.
I totally feel you on that one... it still rubs me wrong how Favored Souls worked back in NWN2, ie getting extra proficiencies and specialisations on their deity's favourite weapon.
Which means my drow FS was stuck with dagger specialisation, because apparently Lolth likes them...
I'm a damn cleric, why on Earth would I use daggers???
I do believe and according to the novels a cleric must have a deity in order to wield any power.
However, it clearly indicates that once a cleric has gained access to the divine power, it is theirs to do with as they see fit. This would mean they would keep their access to divine power even if they "lost their way" and no longer follow a diety. I do not believe, however, that they would be able to choose a Clerical Paragon Path without a deity, nor would they be able to benefit from an Implement (holy symbol).
Don't get me wrong, I really cannot find any difinitive official statements saying that a cleric without a diety couldn't have a clerical paragon path, but as a DM I know I for sure wouldn't let a godless-cleric take on the Paragon Paths set out in the 4e Players Handbook for Clerics. Especially when taking into account that each of their descriptions begin with phrases like, "You become the voice of your god," "You become a special servant of your god," or "You become the light of your god in the world," as these all convey a sense of extreme dedication to a diety or church. If a paragon cleric lost their way, I surely (as a DM) would strip them of their Paragon Path, whether permanently or temporarily - which would all be relevant to the matter at hand that lead to such a drastic measure.
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The answers to all this have been addressed in 4e. So I have got to admit(even though I don't really like this change) that this new feature makes the lore(esp. pantheon) very comprehensive.
@aavarius: Yes I meant technically possible only. Not that lore would allow it, but if you want to customize your campaign, you will not have to change rules. e.g. A belief in a particular ideal(like justice and equality) can give you access to divine powers.
@vindicon: deities are no longer locked to races. Drows can worship Selune and Dragonborns can worship Lolth. 4e has more freedom in those terms and with alignment. Also you do need deities to become someone, however you can also follow more than one deity in divine paths(as long as their ideals are compatible).
@zebular: Thats quite constricted view(not that it is wrong or bad). For example, if cleric still believes in the deity, but has lost the way while believing he/she is doing the deity's work - the powers won't be lost. E.g. (hypothetical) A worshiper of Selune decides to destroy a whole city with divine powers because it is harboring a werewolf, would still be able to wield the powers(as in 4e). If all cleric knew the will of their deities without misunderstandings and loosing their ways, campaign would be very boring for divine powers.
Constricted? Nah, as I said:
In your hypothetical, I fail to see how that would outright spark Selune to disavow such a follower anyway. That is unless they did something like also kill all the priests of Selune within said city. Then again, I don't feel that a Paragon of Selune would even do such a thing, for they would most likely be above mass murder. Never the less, predicaments could present themselves to endow such behavior, such as mental illness or magical malady, to think of only a couple. In such a case, I again wouldn't feel that Selune would disavow the afflicted Paragon Cleric. If anything, it might make for some interesting story-lines in which she may "send" priests or other divine vessels to try and cure the afflicted and mend the damage they did to said city.
That is why I think they left such a president out of the Player's Guide and are instead leaving such things to the DM and how they interpret the circumstance and hand and how it was role-played.
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lets just drop it. my imaginations are running wild. I need to control them.
See, I don't like that banana in my FR-flakes. I like it in my Eberron-flakes just fine, though---and that's the principle difference for me. In the games I've run in the two settings divine power as purely an expression of faith is only viable in my Eberron games. That's why that setting has corrupt clerics and FR, as a general rule, doesn't.
Naturally, your mileage (and cereal consumption) may vary.
*Archmage Zevular chuckles and nods in understanding*
Indeed, as I still feel and tried to convey, I really wouldn't be able to say for sure how I, as a DM, would handle any divine retribution. However, I just want to make clear that I was talking about the Paragon abilities granted when a Cleric reaches the level to choose a divine paragon path. I was not talking about the base access to divine power that all clerics get.
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Indeed. In my Campaign, should I ever update to the current timeline and 4e rule-set (which of course 4e conversion would all be up to my players in the end), I would still make a DM decision to keep Divine Power the way it was, granted directly by the gods themselves. Of course, I would also have resurrected Mystra by now and re-instated her Weave and Shar's -- most likely through player adventure(s). That's just my campaign though and I'll, personally, never allow the (to quote True Blood) "true death" of Mystra/Mystryl. It still has yet to be seen if Mystra is truly dead however even in FR Canon, but that's a discussion brought up elsewhere in these forums.
The way I personally handled some of the corrupt clerics in the past in my campaign, ones that turned from their gods from shifts of alignment, is that they were secretly noticed by an enemy deity of their former god and it is them who are now secretly granting the cleric divine magic in hopes to continue to pull the cleric away from their former deity.
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I don't know if their ways still work in 4e as well as they did in 3.5, but you are probably forgetting these guys...
Mystra is not dead permanently. Her essence is somewhere in world(not spoiling) so there is a high chance of her resurrection(talking about official campaign). Even one of the writers of lore has said that option to bring mystra back is not closed. But the question is, will mystra be as powerful without weave? Will weave become normal again? Will weave become only source of magic again now that demons and other sources of magic have become known?
The official way to deal with clerics who lost their ways(banite clerics who become good and vice versa) is that they still can use their powers however the church and other followers will hunt them down. So Torm's cleric who does bad things will be hunted down by their church. However, I don't like this present system. Why? Consider the situation when whole church has become corrupted and a single cleric is actually following the will of deity(this is actually setting of Maeve, and foundry missions I later plan to make). In that case, would the church still hunt down the cleric? Would the deity himself/herself help the cleric following his/her will? These questions, I hope they will be addressed in 5th edition. No edition can be perfect(else it would be boring
Indeed, you know that I know all about the Mystrallan lore as I've brought it up before in our past discussions, quite enthusiastically at one point I admit. Which, if it was a spoiler, I'd have done spoiled some of that. All I meant was, that with novels, anything is possible, so we shall see what becomes written.
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