Jubilee changes

baucoin · June 2023

So, with all the changes to the event are the figurines still temporary? That's one thing I've always hated about this event.

Removing the stronghold version of the merchant escort stinks too.

Tried a couple of merchant runs in Ebon downs escorted the merchant the whole way, but got no reward at the end. Yes, my dps sucks. At least with the old system I would have gotten some drops from when the merchant started moving again after stopping.

plasticbat · June 2023

They removed the drop from the merchant along the path. Because of that, stronghold escort would not be used by anyone even if it is available. The path is too long comparing with others.

fritz · June 2023

Not sure what I did expect, but ugh. I mean c'mon most devs weren't around, but some of us actually celebrate 10 years of Neverwinter. This event doesn't do justice, to say the least. Like are we supposed to use our VIP Travel Post like crazy to get the Bounties now and do the same quests over and over and over again? That's the essence of a 10-year celebration? Cool!

Not that escorting the merchant was necessarily more fun, but it at least felt rewarding. Even on a 80k+ DPS it's hard to even land hits and get some sort of credit, making the merchant a waste of time. The skirmish also got longer and harder so you can strip that quest off your daily rotation as well.

I don't know. Something "special" would have been nice I have to say. This is just yet another Jubilee event, probably even worse than previous ones too.

callumf · June 2023

fritz#8093 said:
Not sure what I did expect, but ugh. I mean c'mon most devs weren't around, but some of us actually celebrate 10 years of Neverwinter. This event doesn't do justice, to say the least. Like are we supposed to use our VIP Travel Post like crazy to get the Bounties now and do the same quests over and over and over again? That's the essence of a 10-year celebration? Cool!

Not that escorting the merchant was necessarily more fun, but it at least felt rewarding. Even on a 80k+ DPS it's hard to even land hits and get some sort of credit, making the merchant a waste of time. The skirmish also got longer and harder so you can strip that quest off your daily rotation as well.

I don't know. Something "special" would have been nice I have to say. This is just yet another Jubilee event, probably even worse than previous ones too.

Agree.

The skirmish is harder, takes longer and requires some teamwork, so pugged 2 last night and each took at least 12 minutes. And it wasnt much fun really. Not enjoyable at all.

fritz · June 2023

The merchant is "fixed", but the basic logic flaw introduced with the new variant is still amazing. The merchant was great because it did drop stuff for every critter killed. Now you ideally want to get over with the escort as fast as possible, making all merchant except the ones in the Whispering Caverns completely inefficient. You at least had to account for the length of the path the merchant travels and then adjust the rewards at the end. Oh and because actively participating is no longer that rewarding, the amount of idlers seems to have gone up as well. If you know where to place yourself to get hit by mobs you almost always get full credit and rewards.

I always have to visualize a team meeting where someone pitches this kind of thing and 5-10 people are like "yeah cool".

rockster · June 2023

Before it started they advertised it as a very special Jubilee, I forget the words they used and can't be bothered going to look it up but they did make a point of specifically saying it was going to be an 'extra special' event this year, so I guess even more trust in what they say has vanished for me now. Why promise something specifically if it's going to be the same or even worse than all the other previous ones. It's totally underwhelming and we had a much better one at the 5 year mark. For a ten-year very special one-off celebration of the games birthday which will never come again they really should be embarrassed at themselves for this pitiful experience. Just shows me they really are disconnected from the playerbase and what's important to the players which is sad. In the case of Jubilee it was always about getting loads of free stuff more or less which was a way the game had to thank everyone for supporting it for another year. People always looked forward to Jubilee for all the freebies and in the past the game was pretty generous with what it gave out, and players rightfully expected it to continue. It's only pixels and costs nothing so it should. It generates goodwill and happy players. But this year they actually take things out and drop less things etc. LOL.

baucoin · June 2023

rockster#6227 said:
Before it started they advertised it as a very special Jubilee, I forget the words they used and can't be bothered going to look it up but they did make a point of specifically saying it was going to be an 'extra special' event this year, so I guess even more trust in what they say has vanished for me now. Why promise something specifically if it's going to be the same or even worse than all the other previous ones. It's totally underwhelming and we had a much better one at the 5 year mark. For a ten-year very special one-off celebration of the games birthday which will never come again they really should be embarrassed at themselves for this pitiful experience. Just shows me they really are disconnected from the playerbase and what's important to the players which is sad. In the case of Jubilee it was always about getting loads of free stuff more or less which was a way the game had to thank everyone for supporting it for another year. People always looked forward to Jubilee for all the freebies and in the past the game was pretty generous with what it gave out, and players rightfully expected it to continue. It's only pixels and costs nothing so it should. It generates goodwill and happy players. But this year they actually take things out and drop less things etc. LOL.

Yep, I thought to myself yesterday the year five celebration was WAY better than this, the tenth.

fritz · June 2023

10-year anniversary would have been such a good opportunity to bring back old items, limited items, etc. Give guys a chance to complete collections or get the skin they never had the chance to. Instead, there is a limited choice of items on the ZEN Market. Ugh.

Also, you could hand out titles, emotes, or rewards based on years played.

What would also have been nice is bringing the old maps back for a week tied to the Jubilee fetch quests. Let us enter old Sharandar, Blacklake District, Tower District, Mount Hotenow, Pirates' Skyhold.

In general, just do a little bit based on the history of the game.

mintmark · June 2023

Oh... we could have had a week of call to arms skirmishes!

hadestemplar · June 2023

The escort event..
In past it where less escort and more like extortion.

The old mechanic was that. Player "protected" merchant from creatures/enemies.. Once any of them( enemy) step in Merchants range( yellow aura), it stops and wait till players wipe enemies. Once it's done they get rewarded. If there are no creatures in path, after certain time some of them will spawn near merchant anyways. Seems simple..

Now what players actually where doing for years is that, they lured other creatures/enemies on purpose. So almost every inch merchant had to pay.

What happened now, is devs removed this posibility.. However, one thing was not adressed.
That now it's enough to be in the end of merchants escort. And you will get reards, even if you where not participating in escort at all..

Some use multi clients, some use bots to keep toons there..

It's kinda sad, that after all these years the company keep repeating with same mistake.. Which is > Failing to foreseen how players may exploit changes in negative ways.

One dev from my previous played games once said me: Once you have concept of dungeon, event or etc.. You have also evalaute how players may try abuse system in negative way.. And if you can figure out at least one way, then without question someone will try do it..

In short you need always be aware that some will try abuse changes. And you need make sure it not happen, cuz enough for one or two players figure out it, then only matter of time till it spread and everyone start doing it.

I can assure no one like to cleaing up the mess. A mess which was possible to avoid, if changes where properly evaluated and tested.

rockster · June 2023

Everytime I help escort the merchant past someone who is AFKg somewhere along the route to get auto rewards I feel like writing "lazy shts" in zone chat. Basically leeching off other people's effort and work.

mintmark · June 2023

I was in an instance this morning where everyone was AFKing along the route and nobody could be bothered to start the merchant.
I left them to it...

trinity706 · June 2023

The AFK farming (standing at the end and not contributing any ANY way) for the merchant escort is quite rampant, essentially more with the change to a Heroic Encounter. The AFK'ers even get bold with statements like "nobody is going to get banned", "It's not against the rules", "why do you care if we stand by the campfire while you do all the work", "quit whining", "do your job so we can get rewarded", etc., etc. The sheer nerve of them jokers (lol).

@percemer can there be an official statement made about whether AFK farming in the game is allowed? Would really like to know the devs stance on this subject because if it is allowed, would rather keep server watching for low population instances to join to minimize the feeding.

plasticbat · June 2023

trinity706#8838 said:
The AFK farming (standing at the end and not contributing any ANY way) for the merchant escort is quite rampant, essentially more with the change to a Heroic Encounter. The AFK'ers even get bold with statements like "nobody is going to get banned", "It's not against the rules", "why do you care if we stand by the campfire while you do all the work", "quit whining", "do your job so we can get rewarded", etc., etc. The sheer nerve of them jokers (lol).

@percemer can there be an official statement made about whether AFK farming in the game is allowed? Would really like to know the devs stance on this subject because if it is allowed, would rather keep server watching for low population instances to join to minimize the feeding.

AFK farming is on the whole path. The 'chain' still needs someone to stand at the end (different spot in the camp area). If the 'chain' is set up properly, everyone including the starter can be AFK here and there.

fritz · June 2023

Why should AFK farming be against the ToS unless there's some third party software active that prevents the game from logging off after 15 minutes of inactivity? I would even go as far as saying that players should be lauded that they figured out a way to efficiently farm the merchant this way. I usually farm during work where I can click every 10-ish minutes but have to do little else. It's really refreshing to be able to use my time that way. When I can't be at the Desktop for an extended period (meeting, lunch, etc.), I use remote control to prevent the game from logging off.

It's simply an unfortunate system design.

durgan · June 2023

More than a bit irritated to find there's a 6 hour maint period planned for tomorrow. Reason being, Guilds have to reset the temp vendor every day to gain whatever structure building mats they need the most. And for a once a year event where this is even possible, losing a quarter day's production is...yeah, irritating. If guilds want to put in the work of tending it, make the damned thing year round so we can write off the occasional down times as not that big of a deal. Most of the guilds in our alliance didn't even know it was possible, I just happened to remember it and spread the word.

rockster · June 2023

I've played another game for about 14 years, it's themed similarly to Neverwinter with mages, warriors, rogues and clerics and has a fantasy theme where u fight monsters and stuff, but it's not animated, it's a visually static game that has guilds etc where u pvp other players and try to kill them, last man standing wins, in a group battle the most left standing win. U collect generals and gear and build up your character of which you only have one per account. Also has questing in it.

Anyway, we recently had a tournament which lasted a couple of months where people opt-into the event and then join the event queue for a few hours a day and the system matches up groups of 5 people on either team and it lasts a max of 20 minutes with tokens to hit or do other actions every 2 minutes. U get points for either winning or losing, obviously more for winning, and at the end your points allow u to purchase things in an event store which everyone wants. There were some people (more than there should have been) who would join the battles at the start by opting-in manually and just drop a token on someone to register they had played, and then go AFK and leave everyone else to finish the battle whether it lasted 20 minutes or 5. As the battles were very hard and the win/lose ratio chance was close, they figured that they were going to get points regardless of what they did and as a result still get to buy things in the store at the end so they saw nothing wrong with just AFKg like this.

The way I saw it was that they were leeching-off the rest of their team and expecting other people to do all the work so they could benefit. I don't see any difference between that and what's happening with the AFkg in the merchant quest here in Neverwinter. Those doing it may not see anything wrong with it and even may think it's a smart way to play, but in reality, unless it genuinely is a completely automated instance with no-one doing anything but being AFK and players all along the route 24/7, which I doubt, it relies on other people's efforts while you're doing nothing to help out, and because of this it is considered leeching.

greywynd · June 2023

fritz#8093 said:
Why should AFK farming be against the ToS unless there's some third party software active that prevents the game from logging off after 15 minutes of inactivity? I would even go as far as saying that players should be lauded that they figured out a way to efficiently farm the merchant this way. I usually farm during work where I can click every 10-ish minutes but have to do little else. It's really refreshing to be able to use my time that way. When I can't be at the Desktop for an extended period (meeting, lunch, etc.), I use remote control to prevent the game from logging off.

It's simply an unfortunate system design.

Use of said software is a violation of ToS.

trinity706 · June 2023

plasticbat said:
AFK farming is on the whole path. The 'chain' still needs someone to stand at the end (different spot in the camp area). If the 'chain' is set up properly, everyone including the starter can be AFK here and there.

Personally aware of said "chains".

At the end of the day "AFK farming" (a general term) is AFK farming though maybe doing so in a manner in which a character is contributing by having their companion defeat enemies (passive farming?) may be treated differently, personally not sure which is the reason an official statement about "AFK farming" was requested.

fritz#8093 said:
Why should AFK farming be against the ToS unless there's some third party software active that prevents the game from logging off after 15 minutes of inactivity? I would even go as far as saying that players should be lauded that they figured out a way to efficiently farm the merchant this way.

After a character is flagged as inactive, a player simply has to interact with the game before the inactivity timer is up for that character to remain logged into the game.

To be clear, when personally using the term "AFK farming" it is referring to simply standing at the end of the merchant path collecting rewards without doing much, if anything. They are taking up a spot in the instance that could be taken up by a player that is going to actively participate.

As far as placing characters along the path and having their companion defeat enemies, personally would not consider it the same thing unless the player is not there to respond appropriately. For example, characters that die while doing nothing and or when the merchant gets attacked and dies while there is or isn't characters around, if a player was actually there at the controller/keyboard, they would have taken action to prevent the character from dying or would see the attack, intervene and save the merchant correct?

fritz#8093 said:
I usually farm during work where I can click every 10-ish minutes but have to do little else. It's really refreshing to be able to use my time that way. When I can't be at the Desktop for an extended period (meeting, lunch, etc.), I use remote control to prevent the game from logging off.

Personally would definitely consider this as NOT ok if your character is gaining rewards, especially from the merchant event.

rockster#6227 said:
The way I saw it was that they were leeching-off the rest of their team and expecting other people to do all the work so they could benefit. I don't see any difference between that and what's happening with the AFkg in the merchant quest here in Neverwinter. Those doing it may not see anything wrong with it and even may think it's a smart way to play, but in reality, unless it genuinely is a completely automated instance with no-one doing anything but being AFK and players all along the route 24/7, which I doubt, it relies on other people's efforts while you're doing nothing to help out, and because of this it is considered leeching.

Good points.

For one someone has to manually activate the merchant and two, the path (depending on the zone) is longer or shorter and even with a completely full instance, personally not sure even if all characters were placed at intervals that their companions would be able to defeat all enemies and the merchant safely make it to the end each time being that the merchant doesn't always stop in the same exact spots.

Below is a section of the Rules of Conduct from the ToS, it is open to interpretation by players though those that run the game determine what is what.

Terms of Service said:
11. Users’ Rules of Conduct

11.1 You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these Terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.

11.2 Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 12, you agree not to take any of the following actions:

harm minors in any way;
impersonate any person or entity, including any Gearbox officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any message transmitted through the Website;
upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, “junk mail”, “spam”, “chain letters”, “pyramid schemes”, or any other form of solicitation;
interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;
“stalk,” threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;
impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;
engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;
trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game;
take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

fritz · June 2023

greywynd said:
Use of said software is a violation of ToS.

Quote the corresponding segment challenge.

plasticbat · June 2023

fritz#8093 said:

greywynd said:
Use of said software is a violation of ToS.
Quote the corresponding segment challenge.

10.2.j

fritz · June 2023

plasticbat said:

10.2.j

Pertains to botting. If remote gaming was not allowed, how come Neverwinter can be played through SteamDeck et al? When I'm away from home I almost always use Parsec because I don't have a potent gaming laptop. You're just pulling stuff out off your HAMSTER because you don't like afk farming. If an individual manually keeps an account logged in, there' no violation.

Btw.: I'm absolutely aware and totally agree that this type of gameplay sucks bigtime. But you know that Neverwinter is a game that rewards dull and repetitive tasks more than varied and self chosen content. AFK farming might be an evolution.

trinity706 · June 2023

fritz#8093 said:

plasticbat said:

10.2.j

Pertains to botting.

Terms of Service said:
19. Official Service and Beta Testing

19.1 The Games are designed for play only as offered through our Service. You agree not to access, create or provide any other means through which the game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Service which is not authorized by us, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for the games, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by these Terms. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You do not have ownership of and may not sell, transfer, trade or auction any Accounts, characters, items, coin, Zen or Proprietary Materials, nor may you assist others in doing so, except as expressly authorized by us. We do not recognize any transfers occurring outside of the Service of anything related to the Service.

19.1 pertains to the use of bots...

fritz#8093 said:

If remote gaming was not allowed, how come Neverwinter can be played through SteamDeck et al?

Probably because to have Neverwinter available on PC and console there had to be an agreement for Neverwinter to be accessible to players via remote play.

fritz#8093 said:
If an individual manually keeps an account logged in, there' no violation.

Section 11.2 has a number of places where AFK farming could be in violation of...

plasticbat · June 2023

fritz#8093 said:

plasticbat said:

10.2.j

Pertains to botting. If remote gaming was not allowed, how come Neverwinter can be played through SteamDeck et al? When I'm away from home I almost always use Parsec because I don't have a potent gaming laptop. You're just pulling stuff out off your HAMSTER because you don't like afk farming. If an individual manually keeps an account logged in, there' no violation.

Btw.: I'm absolutely aware and totally agree that this type of gameplay sucks bigtime. But you know that Neverwinter is a game that rewards dull and repetitive tasks more than varied and self chosen content. AFK farming might be an evolution.

That has nothing to do with remote gaming (no idea why you brought that up). It is about unattended gaming which is not against the rule.

10.2.j does not say it is about botting only. You add that yourself or choose to limit the interpretation to fit your argument. It is straight forward: "Use any third party software ..... to change game play".

It is not against the rule to AFK. It is against the rule to use 3rd party software to play the game. So, it is not about AFK. It is about how you AFK.
So, if you can AFK without using 3rd party software such as training your cat to do that for you, it is not against the rule.

I personally do not consider "AFK farming" against any rule. A person is AFK and the system gives him stuff that he "did not ask for". Sure, one most likely has the "intention" but nevertheless the person is just standing there and it is not against the rule. It is like one stands in PE and he got email, gifted, PM, etc that he did not ask for.

Of course, using 3rd party software to keep the character not be logout by the system is what we are talking about.

fritz · June 2023

You can't use your cat because the rules say that one account can only be played by one person.

I'm not using 3rd party. I'm keeping the character logged in myself. Anyway, I haven't run into any trouble and I don't expect to in the future.

greywynd · June 2023

It generally falls under the "not engaging with the game as intended" umbrella.

hustin1 · June 2023

Personally I was hoping for some more of those transmute boxes we got for the 5th anniversary. There are a LOT of item skins that are no longer available (e.g. all of the redcap stuff except for the caps).

tigerdrsk · June 2023

The event overall was a nice effort but there was a lot of swing and misses for it.

For starters, the blood forge and golems were too high leveled at being 5 skull. The fact if you got this part of your run nullified any chance of getting tier 1 for rewards at all. 12 enemies at 5 skull as in 6 blood forge and golems AND a boss is impossible for even item level 80ks to do in 4 mins. Even with scaling, all of the skirmish parts are supposed to be able to be done by everyone and the forges and golems should feasibly be dropped to 3 skull for level. Somebody didn't check that on release.

The merchant for the most part wasn't fixed when I did things so friends and family didn't bother with it this year and the skirmish dragged on. In some cases took 30 minutes because of the blood forges and golems. I used to run the skirmish as a main resource for renown but had to slog through just the daily. It was just that bad. It wasn't fun. It was a great idea to mix up the enemies instead of the ballistas to take down every year as some were recognizable for the tasks but just had enemies swapped but they should have lower difficulty for everyone to enjoy. The game's problem still is the scaling and it's too much to punish players no matter the item level where before you could feel like you made a difference. Sorry but I'm not going to chase item levels beyond what there is. I'm not going to climb to 80k let alone at most maybe 50k just to unlock the latest content. The enemies hitting harder and being bigger sponges doesn't do it for me. More games are far more rewarding in combat thant this now. The game's abilities and everything still is fun to a degree just they need to rework damage or scaling indefinitely.

The last sour thing is trying to stock up on the weapon transmutes in case I make more characters later on and they can get them, but they're missing from the event store after the event. Not cool.

rockster · June 2023

hustin1 said:
Personally I was hoping for some more of those transmute boxes we got for the 5th anniversary. There are a LOT of item skins that are no longer available (e.g. all of the redcap stuff except for the caps).

I was secretly hoping they would bring back the coloured Apparatus of Kwalish mounts, namely the red one. And of course the seductive set. Opportunities squandered.

melotai · June 2023

my experience is that the jubilee was actually pretty bad this year. I did this on all ten of my toons as usual but it did feel like a sort of chore and as far as the traveling merchant from what I could tell you had entire guilds doing planned afk runs on it and it seemed pretty bad as quite often my toon would either show up and start it for them or I would get to an instance where it seemed like no one was even bothering to start or even save the merchant.

I think what made it really bad is that you got the same reward as everyone else regardless of what you did which is why I think so many players did it that way vs. the other years where you had plenty of players following the merchant around because back then people were getting extra rewards for their efforts.

Also, this year I only did the traveling merchant once for each toon and I then was done with it for the day as my only concern was completing the daily quest. And most of the time I either did it solo or with one or two other players that happened to be doing the same.

Whereas vs. other years where I actively participated on multiple occasions on various toons and used the guild one often enough to ensure my weaker or melee toon types and paladin got credit and extra stuff all the way.

of course I semi-started to do the same thing as I would queue for the event or random skirmish and then enter the instance and then what I queued for would pop before I really got anywhere and when I got back it was sometimes in progress and I did not have to wait long or on a few rare occasions I got credit for completing it as soon as I got back.

Presuming there is a next year they hopefully make changes that make it much more fun again.

greywynd · June 2023

Did better than I did. I think I managed 4 Elminsters and 3 drummers.

Jubilee changes

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