It's bizarre how it works. I got out of the car once after having just left the docks. My AP was still full. I used VIP signpost to go back to PE and my AP was empty.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
I think the fact that a large area of Avernus is empty just for you to run with that car there was a really lazy design choice. They should put some relevant mobs or just tougher, rarer ones there.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,155Arc User
They put manes you can run over and manes you cannot run over. What more do you want?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Julia covered this back on page one. The war machine area was put there to appease the Wizards of the Coast content providers. It is to remind you, there is a table top game this game is based upon. You can exit your war machine and mount up in this area. Nothing forces you to use the war machine once you obtain it.
Nothing forces you to use the war machine once you obtain it.
What do you mean? The system literally shovels you into it whenever you happen to enter the map.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,155Arc User
Tab out of it and call up your mount.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
To return to the topic of the OP... I don't mind the car but game wise, it is totally pointless.
Maybe they are testing out higher mount speeds with the game engine
That may be the case, but that doesn't make it good game design to do so as a permanent part of the live server.
This brings up yet another issue here. How do you find out if the vast majority of the players will enjoy a new feature, if only the minority is willing to test it out on Preview? And don't give me the "I don't get paid." B.S. either.
Julia explained why it is there, it was on Preview before it went to Live, and my "action points" replenish fast enough. Do you really need to use your daily power in this area right away? I don't. I am running 20Ks with mostly rank 9 enchants and have no issue trotting about on my epic mounts. I can get to all the gates unharmed. The war machine area is non-issue in my opinion.
I no longer test stuff on Preview myself, as Cryptic has a beta before Preview, and by this time they are just debugging. We have no room to say anything about their decisions before or after they made up their mind. While I continue to submit my opinions in this forum and the CDP, I really don't know if they will ever listen to my advice. So both parties are at fault, those who don't care to listen to good advice and those who just don't care enough to give good advice.
Maybe some point down this road, WoC will have a module about pink ponies living in a fantasy land of the Candy Kingdom. Cryptic might get the call to make a place for it. Will I play that module? Probably not. I am still at 4% on A.I. and that was to make the posters in PE to stop sparkling. Play where you enjoy playing and have fun doing it.
"The war machine area is non-issue in my opinion."
This is actually why I say it's not good game design. It doesn't affect gameplay at all, really. It is analogous to the boats in SOMI but in that case, you can't traverse the water with your mount, obviously. (ignoring the ones that should be able to fly, of course) With the war machine, you can just get out and use your mount. The car is probably faster but zone is empty. Having the zone so big is just a post hoc justification for having the car. (I imagine that the gates are there so the car only moves through an area with reduced textures, avoiding the issue if why we cant have faster mounts)
If we needed the car for actual game play and combat, if it were upgradeable, then it wouldn't feel like they just tacked the alpha of a driving game into our MMO. No fishing, please.
As it stands, the car is kind of neat but rather pointless and that makes it stand out given the other issues facing this module and also the Rage of Bel thag preceded it. RNG issues, kill stealing, overly repetitive Insurgency and Bel fight... Seeing resources spent wastefully in a time when the content leaves so many unsatisfied isn't optimal.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Speaking of tech in D&D, there is a licensed Fifth Edition sourcebook out presenting Expedition to the Barrier peaks with both the original module faithfully reproduced art and all as well as a modern expanded version.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
"ignoring the ones that should be able to fly, of course" - Tenser disk is out of question, everybody knows that hower boards do not work over the water. And I would not dare to fly across an ocean in a whirlwind, tornadoes and such might get stronger there and who knows how that would end.
The whirlwind is an air elemental if you read the description. It shouldn't have any issues with windstorms.
Tenser's is a bit of a question about what it is, exactly. Using one to fly on is expressly forbidden on tabletop and Cryptic just sort of handwaved it with a bit of semantics.
Otherwise Flying Carpet, Griffons, Manticores, Deepcrow should work. And this is just island hopping, you're never really out of sight of land.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,155Arc User
Tenser's Floating Disk is a loophole ride in the rules. The caster can't get on it.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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alphastreamMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 209Arc User
The very first "adventure" in the Original Dungeons & Dragons supplements have an enemy from outer space with power armor and advanced weapons. There are countless examples of mixing genres throughout D&D history.
As has been said, the Descent Into Avernus published adventure includes war machines. I would argue these are well implemented here by the Cryptic team.
Sure, not everyone likes mixing genres. But, it is valid to do so and it was well done in this case.
Learn more about Dungeons & Dragons tabletop at Alphastream.org.
@greywynd Well, and here we are... May I redirect you back to the OP?
May I redirect you to your post directly above mine that you quoted?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Look for someone with <!> over their head. They may not help you get unlost, but they may point you in another direction you need to go.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
@pitshade I understand where you are coming from, unfortunately there is a lot of mechanics in this game (opinion varies) maybe too much and this causes the game to break often. I have discussed (argued) this with my husband, he is of the opinion the game database would fail beyond repair. I say that mounts like flying carpets, floating disks, mounts with wings, etc. should all be allowed to cross any body of open water without converting into the boat. This of course would upset some players out of jealousy, who don't own such mounts, although they could still use the boat. The players with mounts would just not have the transformation animation and their creatures with wings would use the jump animation while crossing the water. For those players, the boat would be for fishing and so much for travel.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,155Arc User
I would be happy if flying mounts simply mitigated falling damage when you were on one.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Wasn't boat in SOMI about some god being angry if you try to run from the battle? I mean, in many fictional worlds if you need something arbitrary, it is some god's will. Here, the water could be someone's domain - someone's who does not want adventurers to fly. It is deux ex machina, but acceptable.
The Hell Machine implementation - being "mandatory" while completely "optional" is, however, a different approach. It-cannot-be-explained. The implementation. Restricting the system to a solo, pass through area that cannot be skipped... does not help. Putting the hell machines into the lock-boxes so you can use them in other areas... while not having the "road-kill" ability... then completely bury the map design as nonsensical.
I mean... go on. Try to explain the combination. I failed that quest.
in '85 i got a triumph stag..white with both the hard top and soft top....its 2020 and i still drive it today.one car lasts a lifetime
You must live somewhere they don't salt the roads in the winter.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
The car had to exist. Those were the module requirements. Given how many players have had trouble with such ride changes in the past, I think they did the best they could to accomodate players who absolutely hate having module specific transportation with the fact that sometimes they do not have a choice and it has to exist.
The car exists. Requirement met. For people who want to ride it in it. You can. Requirement met. For people who who not, you don't have to. QoL met.
They could have made it like the boats in SoMI where you were required to use them for transportation everywhere in the zone, and I'm glad they didn't. I actually appreciate that I can dismount and don't have to ride in the car.
The content of Avernus was all done under WotC feedback and approval so we could stay true to their Avernus adventure. The setting and props may not be everyone's cup of tea (for example, I tend to favor greener/Sharandar style settings) but as a D&D licensed game we do try to incorporate as much official lore as possible.
Nothing she said indicated that the war machine was a requirement, only that they wanted to squeeze in as much from the sourcebook as possible and that WotC approved it. They could have incorporated recruiting Olanthius or any number of elements and done basically the same thing.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
The content of Avernus was all done under WotC feedback and approval so we could stay true to their Avernus adventure. The setting and props may not be everyone's cup of tea (for example, I tend to favor greener/Sharandar style settings) but as a D&D licensed game we do try to incorporate as much official lore as possible.
Nothing she said indicated that the war machine was a requirement, only that they wanted to squeeze in as much from the sourcebook as possible and that WotC approved it. They could have incorporated recruiting Olanthius or any number of elements and done basically the same thing.
Yes... woulda, coulda, shoulda. Personally I had a much better idea about placing war machines into the game. I thought about it near the start of module 18 and talked about it to a few of my friends in game and they liked the concept. This is how Wendy Black would have done "Vallenhas" module 18, if she was in charge of the plot. No offense to Elliot Minner and Nick Corea, but their plot has holes and they leave all campaigns with an unfinished feel to them.
I know lore and dialog are not everyone's cup of tea... The same basic setup, only I would have Sergeant Knox accompany you to Helm's Hold to pick up Alric. I really don't care much for the bard Etrian. Upon meeting up with Makos there would be a lot more dialog. There would be options as to how your character feels toward Makos to set the proper mood. At one point Sgt. Knox says, "This is from Celeste!" and punches Makos in the jaw knocking him to the ground. Then Knox reaches down and pulls Makos back up, "And this is from me." and shakes the warlock's hand. "Thank you for bringing her back from Chult alive my old friend.". Filling the Plot Hole There would be a damn good reason, as to why people are not being sent back through the portal made by Makos. Then about halfway through near (shield vault) another cut scene where a demon brings a message to surrender the land. The deal was made and all the people and the land belong to Zariel. Berion and Alric cut a new deal, they want the people freed and the demons can have the land.
At the end of the campaign they broker a contest, a race with massive war machines. If Alric and his brother come in first place, they win the people's freedom. If they don't, they forfeit their heads.
The race of the war machines would be (in real terms) a massive arena, but the players would appear to be riding on the top of a huge war machine piloted by Berion. The background would be dust and glimpses of Avernus wizzing by as the players would have to repel demons boarding from the other machines as they try to pass. The floor is highly unstable as the machine bounds and bounces along, making fight difficult but not impossible.
There are no rules to the race other than kill or be killed. At the end, with the players help, Alric and Berion win the race and the freedom for their people, but not their freedom. They are bound to remain and fight alone. At the very end, many of Alric's people have left, and suddenly a massive portal opens and fresh troops march into the castle. The officer explains they are there of their own accord now, assuring the Vallenhas brothers they never have been alone and never will be.
Comments
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Julia covered this back on page one. The war machine area was put there to appease the Wizards of the Coast content providers. It is to remind you, there is a table top game this game is based upon. You can exit your war machine and mount up in this area. Nothing forces you to use the war machine once you obtain it.
Have fun!
Julia explained why it is there, it was on Preview before it went to Live, and my "action points" replenish fast enough. Do you really need to use your daily power in this area right away? I don't. I am running 20Ks with mostly rank 9 enchants and have no issue trotting about on my epic mounts. I can get to all the gates unharmed. The war machine area is non-issue in my opinion.
I no longer test stuff on Preview myself, as Cryptic has a beta before Preview, and by this time they are just debugging. We have no room to say anything about their decisions before or after they made up their mind. While I continue to submit my opinions in this forum and the CDP, I really don't know if they will ever listen to my advice. So both parties are at fault, those who don't care to listen to good advice and those who just don't care enough to give good advice.
Maybe some point down this road, WoC will have a module about pink ponies living in a fantasy land of the Candy Kingdom. Cryptic might get the call to make a place for it. Will I play that module? Probably not. I am still at 4% on A.I. and that was to make the posters in PE to stop sparkling. Play where you enjoy playing and have fun doing it.
This is actually why I say it's not good game design. It doesn't affect gameplay at all, really. It is analogous to the boats in SOMI but in that case, you can't traverse the water with your mount, obviously. (ignoring the ones that should be able to fly, of course) With the war machine, you can just get out and use your mount. The car is probably faster but zone is empty. Having the zone so big is just a post hoc justification for having the car. (I imagine that the gates are there so the car only moves through an area with reduced textures, avoiding the issue if why we cant have faster mounts)
If we needed the car for actual game play and combat, if it were upgradeable, then it wouldn't feel like they just tacked the alpha of a driving game into our MMO. No fishing, please.
As it stands, the car is kind of neat but rather pointless and that makes it stand out given the other issues facing this module and also the Rage of Bel thag preceded it. RNG issues, kill stealing, overly repetitive Insurgency and Bel fight... Seeing resources spent wastefully in a time when the content leaves so many unsatisfied isn't optimal.
Tenser's is a bit of a question about what it is, exactly. Using one to fly on is expressly forbidden on tabletop and Cryptic just sort of handwaved it with a bit of semantics.
Otherwise Flying Carpet, Griffons, Manticores, Deepcrow should work. And this is just island hopping, you're never really out of sight of land.
As has been said, the Descent Into Avernus published adventure includes war machines. I would argue these are well implemented here by the Cryptic team.
Sure, not everyone likes mixing genres. But, it is valid to do so and it was well done in this case.
Learn about Neverwinter and the Lore of D&D on YouTube
Check out my acclaimed adventures for the tabletop D&D game, including my latest: Adamantine Chef: Supreme Challenge! and Jungle Treks or Chultan Death Curse: Revised for Tomb of Annihilation!
It is deux ex machina, but acceptable.
The Hell Machine implementation - being "mandatory" while completely "optional" is, however, a different approach. It-cannot-be-explained. The implementation. Restricting the system to a solo, pass through area that cannot be skipped... does not help. Putting the hell machines into the lock-boxes so you can use them in other areas... while not having the "road-kill" ability... then completely bury the map design as nonsensical.
I mean... go on. Try to explain the combination. I failed that quest.
The car exists. Requirement met. For people who want to ride it in it. You can. Requirement met. For people who who not, you don't have to. QoL met.
They could have made it like the boats in SoMI where you were required to use them for transportation everywhere in the zone, and I'm glad they didn't. I actually appreciate that I can dismount and don't have to ride in the car.
Personally I had a much better idea about placing war machines into the game. I thought about it near the start of module 18 and talked about it to a few of my friends in game and they liked the concept. This is how Wendy Black would have done "Vallenhas" module 18, if she was in charge of the plot. No offense to Elliot Minner and Nick Corea, but their plot has holes and they leave all campaigns with an unfinished feel to them.
The same basic setup, only I would have Sergeant Knox accompany you to Helm's Hold to pick up Alric. I really don't care much for the bard Etrian. Upon meeting up with Makos there would be a lot more dialog. There would be options as to how your character feels toward Makos to set the proper mood. At one point Sgt. Knox says, "This is from Celeste!" and punches Makos in the jaw knocking him to the ground. Then Knox reaches down and pulls Makos back up, "And this is from me." and shakes the warlock's hand. "Thank you for bringing her back from Chult alive my old friend.".
Filling the Plot Hole
There would be a damn good reason, as to why people are not being sent back through the portal made by Makos. Then about halfway through near (shield vault) another cut scene where a demon brings a message to surrender the land. The deal was made and all the people and the land belong to Zariel. Berion and Alric cut a new deal, they want the people freed and the demons can have the land.
At the end of the campaign they broker a contest, a race with massive war machines. If Alric and his brother come in first place, they win the people's freedom. If they don't, they forfeit their heads.
The race of the war machines would be (in real terms) a massive arena, but the players would appear to be riding on the top of a huge war machine piloted by Berion. The background would be dust and glimpses of Avernus wizzing by as the players would have to repel demons boarding from the other machines as they try to pass. The floor is highly unstable as the machine bounds and bounces along, making fight difficult but not impossible.
There are no rules to the race other than kill or be killed. At the end, with the players help, Alric and Berion win the race and the freedom for their people, but not their freedom. They are bound to remain and fight alone. At the very end, many of Alric's people have left, and suddenly a massive portal opens and fresh troops march into the castle. The officer explains they are there of their own accord now, assuring the Vallenhas brothers they never have been alone and never will be.
Wouldn't that have been nice?