I have to agree with @tilrod2 and @marnival, Palisade is still terrible.
The only time I bothered touching it all day was 1) seeing what it did, 2) using it to shout at another Paly (if they can hear it?) 3) an accident. Its simply far better to get aggro, move past the mob and give the whole party combat advantage than try and get them to stand behind you in an insanely small triangle where their damage will suck, because they don't have combat advantage.
Right now its a whole mechanic that is useful in 1 dungeon from before mod 16 and unless similar mechanics forcing the party to hide behind the tank are created for other dungeons in the future, it is basically useless.
Sorry @asterdahl, I just don't understand your steadfast resolve to force this functionality.
This is another take that doesn't "feel good".
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Having decided to try my level 70 Paladin on the preview server, I was devestated to find how much my powers had been nerfed, I could have cried when I saw what a shadow, my Paladin was of her former self. I have been soloing as a tank since I first made her and was pleased that she was excelled as such. I am using: at wills: Valorous and Radiant strike, encounters: Sacred weapon, Smite and Bane, Dailies: Divine Judgement and Radiant charge. Class features are Divine Justice and Composure. I did try out the others but this seemed the best of a bad deal. From the get go in Undermountain, I was struggling to fight my way through the mobs even the small weak ones, that was before I even got to the portal. At level 70 I feel my character is really weak and it takes a long time to kill anything once the meager supply of divinity has run out. I have read what other people have said about the powers being mostly useless or weak and I totally agree 100%, they are. While killing cultists in the catacombs, it took me so long to kill them, they had respawned again before I could move away, after killing them for a 2nd time, I had to run for it or I would have been there all day just killing the one group of them. (I have never had to do that before and I was really disappointed.) What would really make a good change is to take at least a minimum of 8 seconds off the cooldown of Sacred Weapon, that would go a long way to fixing things in my opinion. Also can someone tell me what is magnitude, is it the new word for damage? It was a lot easier when it just said "does x amount of damage" it made it easier to pick which powers to use. I did think it might be area but you get range and radius, obviously not that then. Another thing is the gear you get for doing the quests, I just sold it. It wasn't as good as the armour I had on, some from Barovia, some off the Auction house in protectors enclave, because soloing means I don't do dungeons. Maybe you could make it better as I know a lot of people probably had even better gear than I did. I know this is preview and that changes will be made, but it didn't make it any less disappointing. I hope that things will get better as I was really happy with my Paladin.
Another thing is the gear you get for doing the quests, I just sold it. It wasn't as good as the armour I had on, some from Barovia, some off the Auction house in protectors enclave, because soloing means I don't do dungeons. Maybe you could make it better as I know a lot of people probably had even better gear than I did. I know this is preview and that changes will be made, but it didn't make it any less disappointing. I hope that things will get better as I was really happy with my Paladin.
As a fellow soloist, Don't know about you but I managed (early on preview) to get a zerg going for the HEs in Barovia. It will also work in River District with the HEs there. Farm them for the Seals of the crown then, when you have enough, buy invest in the Barovian armor and then the Spy's Guild set. It helps. My main runs as a Oathkeeper (w/Justicar for flexability) and ran with Barovian and Chultan gear and managed to use it up to about Terminus before I gave in and switched. Getting to 80 is really the key to make the content a little bit easier. It's still no where even close to what we could do (both Prot and Devo) but it does make it a bit more manageable. My two coppers.
Edit: Looks like the fixed it so the Spy's guild set can be purchased with seals of the mountain. Pick those up in the master expeditions, which is repeatable 3 times a day.
Smite is hitting far too hard, it needs to come down to about 700 magnitude (basically it shouldn't do more damage than Relentless Avenger given it is far more reliably used than Relentless).
Overall with this mod the solo play experience has been much improved and is comparable to the other classes I have been testing, except in the immortality bit.
Agree with you on this EXCEPT for Smite. Leave it AS is. Its a shared power and if you nerf it for the Justicar it nerfs it for the Oathkeepers and we don't have Relentless as an option. If you want to make the case for Relentless being more powerful, boost its damage.
Smite is hitting far too hard, it needs to come down to about 700 magnitude (basically it shouldn't do more damage than Relentless Avenger given it is far more reliably used than Relentless).
Overall with this mod the solo play experience has been much improved and is comparable to the other classes I have been testing, except in the immortality bit.
Agree with you on this EXCEPT for Smite. Leave it AS is. Its a shared power and if you nerf it for the Justicar it nerfs it for the Oathkeepers and we don't have Relentless as an option. If you want to make the case for Relentless being more powerful, boost its damage.
Relentless seem only good for its charge function tbh there are encounters much more useful unless you increase its damage quite a lot and i that would put the damage to high and probably not a good idea.
As Pal can not do damage while tanking using binding oath gives far more damage then Relentless when tanking. As I written before giving more to this ability to give damage while tanking, that is radiant reflective damage when hit, and adding threat to it would add much more to Pals then having another non aggro high damage encounter. Smite together with dailies is pretty good as it is and to further our ablitity to gain threat and giving damage by encounters such as binding aoth would help both dps and thread building while tanking.
It is easy enough to increase this by adding some feats and build in taunt on the reflective damage from binding aoth.
Smite is hitting far too hard, it needs to come down to about 700 magnitude (basically it shouldn't do more damage than Relentless Avenger given it is far more reliably used than Relentless).
Overall with this mod the solo play experience has been much improved and is comparable to the other classes I have been testing, except in the immortality bit.
Agree with you on this EXCEPT for Smite. Leave it AS is. Its a shared power and if you nerf it for the Justicar it nerfs it for the Oathkeepers and we don't have Relentless as an option. If you want to make the case for Relentless being more powerful, boost its damage.
Relentless seem only good for its charge function tbh there are encounters much more useful unless you increase its damage quite a lot and i that would put the damage to high and probably not a good idea.
As Pal can not do damage while tanking using binding oath gives far more damage then Relentless when tanking. As I written before giving more to this ability to give damage while tanking, that is radiant reflective damage when hit, and adding threat to it would add much more to Pals then having another non aggro high damage encounter. Smite together with dailies is pretty good as it is and to further our ablitity to gain threat and giving damage by encounters such as binding aoth would help both dps and thread building while tanking.
It is easy enough to increase this by adding some feats and build in taunt on the reflective damage from binding aoth.
@asterdahl This is for both Vanguard and Justicar.
Encounters used in tanking need to have their activation time cut to either instant or close to that.
As it is now you are either interrupted or just have to cansel them all the time because the activation time is far to long.
This prevent you from controlling the fight to being controlled by the fight this is especially true when fighting several mobs or boss mobs what has long attack sequences. Being stunned, knocked down, paralyzed when trying to grab aggro because of the long casting times is both unwanted and unneeded.
Also can someone tell me what is magnitude, is it the new word for damage? It was a lot easier when it just said "does x amount of damage" it made it easier to pick which powers to use. I did think it might be area but you get range and radius, obviously not that then. Another thing is the gear you get for doing the quests, I just sold it. It wasn't as good as the armour I had on, some from Barovia, some off the Auction house in protectors enclave, because soloing means I don't do dungeons. Maybe you could make it better as I know a lot of people probably had even better gear than I did. I know this is preview and that changes will be made, but it didn't make it any less disappointing. I hope that things will get better as I was really happy with my Paladin.
First, the “damage” you see on live is really the magnitude you see on preview. It has always been a percentile multiplier of your weapon damage. All you need to know is that the bigger the magnitude the harder the power hits.
Without seeing your stats (DnD ones and game ones) and rotations it’s hard to know why you are struggling.
As to solo gear, right now on preview some of the best gear in the game is gained by solo play through Master Expeditions, so that is fully supported. Yes the very best gear in the game (at the moment) requires you to do Lair of the Mad Mage, but you will be able to improve your gear to only marginally behind that purely through solo play.
As to gear for levelling through to 80, I just re-leveled my main again and her current gear on live I replaced in the last zone and with rings gained getting there. I replaced it because the overall stat balance I gain from the wretched set is better than my Mod15 gear, and that is more important than the specific buffs that gear offers.
Quick Vid of trash clearing in the first bits of Undermountain with a very badly geared Paladin:
Smite is hitting far too hard, it needs to come down to about 700 magnitude (basically it shouldn't do more damage than Relentless Avenger given it is far more reliably used than Relentless).
Overall with this mod the solo play experience has been much improved and is comparable to the other classes I have been testing, except in the immortality bit.
Agree with you on this EXCEPT for Smite. Leave it AS is. Its a shared power and if you nerf it for the Justicar it nerfs it for the Oathkeepers and we don't have Relentless as an option. If you want to make the case for Relentless being more powerful, boost its damage.
Ok I have played Paladin, Warlock, Barbarian and Control Wizard in the new campaign. When Tank Paladins had a 30% debuff on everything that huge damage on Smite was needed to be able to play the game effectively, and it was a big win for Heals. Now we do 90% of damage with tanks. You know what I don’t see on any DPS class? A power that can be cast 3 times in 6 seconds with a magnitude over 1000.
It’s ridiculous that a tank has better access to raw dps than the dps classes.
It’s made more ridiculous by the insane HP buff, which should have simply been a shield buff.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Smite is hitting far too hard, it needs to come down to about 700 magnitude (basically it shouldn't do more damage than Relentless Avenger given it is far more reliably used than Relentless).
Overall with this mod the solo play experience has been much improved and is comparable to the other classes I have been testing, except in the immortality bit.
Agree with you on this EXCEPT for Smite. Leave it AS is. Its a shared power and if you nerf it for the Justicar it nerfs it for the Oathkeepers and we don't have Relentless as an option. If you want to make the case for Relentless being more powerful, boost its damage.
Ok I have played Paladin, Warlock, Barbarian and Control Wizard in the new campaign. When Tank Paladins had a 30% debuff on everything that huge damage on Smite was needed to be able to play the game effectively, and it was a big win for Heals. Now we do 90% of damage with tanks. You know what I don’t see on any DPS class? A power that can be cast 3 times in 6 seconds with a magnitude over 1000.
It’s ridiculous that a tank has better access to raw dps than the dps classes.
It’s made more ridiculous by the insane HP buff, which should have simply been a shield buff.
A fair criticism but I'll remind you that there are no damaging encounter powers after Bane on the Oathkeeper. Everything else except banishment is geared toward heals and healing use. While that's not an issue for group content, it is an issue wrt solo play. It also wasn't, per say, a big win for the Heals as, like I mentioned, almost all of the other encounters for the Justicars do some form of damage. As I might have mentioned back in the Mod 15 thread on paladins, I'm not concerned with folks advocating for changes to their favorite paragon's powers. I DO get concerned when folks start suggesting changes to the shared powers based on their experiences using their own paragon.
@asterdahl I had a moment of inspiration this morning.
Paladin players don’t like the current shield. Paladin players do like Sanctuary. Paladin players do like Auras (but not the current ones on Preview).
So...
TAB becomes “Divine Sanctuary”
Divine Sanctuary: Radius 15' Divinity Cost: 100 per second. While Divine Sanctuary is active you are immune to control effects. Additional Effects: Allies in Divine Sanctuary gain a 5% damage reduction are healed over time. Magnitude: 0.5 Heal. Aura Effects: Divine Sanctuary can be modified by Auras. Having 2 auras active increases the Divinity Cost of Divine Sanctuary by 50.
Auras would then remain passive powers. There should be 4 of them that are available 2 shared and 2 that are specific.
Example Shared Ideas: Greater Sanctuary: The area of Divine Sanctuary is increased to 30'. Additional Effect: Divine Sanctuary increases its cost by 100 per second.
Aura of Purity: When you activate Divine Sanctuary allies in the Sanctuary lose 1 status effect and cannot gain status effects for its duration. Additional Effect: Divine Sanctuary no longer provides damage reduction or healing.
Example Paragon Ideas: Protection from Evil: When you activate Divine Sanctuary allies in the Sanctuary have their threat reduced by 50%. Additional Effect: Divine Sanctuary provides 8% Damage reduction and no longer heals.
Aura of Life: When you activate Divine Sanctuary allies in the Sanctuary are healed. Magnitude 50 Heal. Additional Effect: Divine Sanctuary now heals 5 times for 1.5 magnitude and no longer provides Damage Reduction.
This makes Divine Sanctuary a definitive feature of the Paladin, and really makes it stand out from the other Healers and Tanks in its play style and benefits it brings to the group, while also reflecting elements of the class that people feel are missing at the moment in Mod16.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
And what would be your suggested replacement daily that the Oathkeeper would lose to make this a reality for the class, @obsidiancran3? If you say Raise the Dead or Resurrection then you've got my vote! To me, Oathkeepers and Devo pallies were just paladins in name only and were actually multiclassed fighter/clerics in 4e. window dressing.
And what would be your suggested replacement daily that the Oathkeeper would lose to make this a reality for the class, @obsidiancran3? If you say Raise the Dead or Resurrection then you've got my vote! To me, Oathkeepers and Devo pallies were just paladins in name only and were actually multiclassed fighter/clerics in 4e. window dressing.
I actually hadn't looked at that, but it basically functions exactly how I envisage what I outline doing, but instead of being a daily it would be divinity based. Huh... Well that makes it easier to adapt
As to what to replace it with...
At the moment we have Divine Judgement is a raw single target damage attack, Radiant Charge is directed AoE with a small interrupt, Shield of Faith is a buff, Lay on Hands is a large single target heal and buff.
That leaves us with AoE heal as a daily, (Healing Font), or making something new. New options that spring to mind include:
something that restores unconscious allies to some sort of health (without revive sickness) as there are several Paladin powers in 4E that do that and 5E Paladins still have Raise Dead
something that cleanses negative effects and prevents them from being applied for a duration
something that does 1000 single target damage and burst heals based on that
something that does 500 AoE damage and heals from that over time
some permutation of the last 2 suggestions
something that resets everyone's encounters and provides a chunk of AP
Based on the observation that there are limited damage options for the Oathkeeper my inclination is to go with something that does damage and heals, or the more utility power of resetting people's encounters and buffing their AP.
I'm also of the opinion that Sanctuary (the daily) and Divine Protector both need either an upgrade or a replacement and in both cases AoE damage combined with a benefit to their Paragon's role seems to be the most needed thing among their current options.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
And what would be your suggested replacement daily that the Oathkeeper would lose to make this a reality for the class, @obsidiancran3? If you say Raise the Dead or Resurrection then you've got my vote! To me, Oathkeepers and Devo pallies were just paladins in name only and were actually multiclassed fighter/clerics in 4e. window dressing.
Having played AD&D for a considerable time during my youth (much to much according to my parents :-) and in the role of paladin most of that time I see auras as one of the main things one could implement that would be unique to the healing path.
Restore some of that from live to mod 16 for healing pals only such as protection from evil = aura of truth, 10% lower casting time = aura of wisdom, 10% more damage = aura of courage etc.
The very presence of a pal insipire and repel evil so auras is a pretty accurate power for them to have.
As healing is secondary to paladins and major for clerics restoring party to full health and clearing all debuffs when using lay on hands or a daily could also be tied to Oathkeepers.
Adding immunte to certain cc powers like fear paralize as tab for a duration etc would also fit into the role imo.
The last boss is a mess and I died on the first boss when I got overrun by a horde of trolls.
For those not familiar with it, there is now a little bar over each PC's name that indicates how much aggro they have, as you can see by watching this I mostly manage to maintain aggro through the whole thing, even with a Barbie running ahead.
There is a lot of "holding your shield up" in this, but that isn't as easy as it seems.
You can see a my gear and build near the end of the video.
My conclusion at the end is still that Vow of Enmity needs to a) hit harder and b) have a 5s faster cool down to help cover times when Divinity is scarce when holding aggro.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Obsidian, you have a lot to say on the direction on the paladin class.. keep in mind not everyone wants to play the turtle paladin who has to shield *every* red attack then hit with a wet noodle. The first nerf to smite was deserved, not another just because they tweaked something else. I agree with major, if you want a power you prefer to use buffed voice on that. I like running BO/Smite/bane. As with smite I can eliminate enemy "leaders" to manage the situation better if needed.
A lot of "holding up the shield" isn't that fun. I can say with this recent update, I don't have to hold up a shield too often for regular campaign content. I haven't had too much experience in group/dungeon content but I may agree that the damage/hp buff can be tweaked back a little based on generic stuff.
@skrewfaz3d#1482 I do have a lot to say, Paladin has been my main since Mod 6, and I play tested it a lot back then as well. (I’ve played SW nearly as much in case you hop over there, and this mod has reinvigorated my interest in GWF, and CW was my first toon to make it to 60, the cap when I started. So now we know why I talk in those threads as well.)
I’m not interested in playing “turtle tank” hiding behind its shield all the time either. That’s why I only run 1 Divinity power, so my play doesn’t turn into hiding behind my shield waiting for my pet and Divinity to return.
Smite is simply out of scale in its DPS.
I remember when Mod6 released and Divine Judgement was basically the hardest hitting daily in the game, Paladin players said “we need it”. It was nerfed to its current (mod15) state in the first week of patches. I would rather get Smite right and not need a nerf in 2 weeks after release.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
And what would be your suggested replacement daily that the Oathkeeper would lose to make this a reality for the class, @obsidiancran3? If you say Raise the Dead or Resurrection then you've got my vote! To me, Oathkeepers and Devo pallies were just paladins in name only and were actually multiclassed fighter/clerics in 4e. window dressing.
I actually hadn't looked at that, but it basically functions exactly how I envisage what I outline doing, but instead of being a daily it would be divinity based. Huh... Well that makes it easier to adapt
As to what to replace it with...
At the moment we have Divine Judgement is a raw single target damage attack, Radiant Charge is directed AoE with a small interrupt, Shield of Faith is a buff, Lay on Hands is a large single target heal and buff.
That leaves us with AoE heal as a daily, (Healing Font), or making something new. New options that spring to mind include:
something that restores unconscious allies to some sort of health (without revive sickness) as there are several Paladin powers in 4E that do that and 5E Paladins still have Raise Dead
something that cleanses negative effects and prevents them from being applied for a duration
something that does 1000 single target damage and burst heals based on that
something that does 500 AoE damage and heals from that over time
some permutation of the last 2 suggestions
something that resets everyone's encounters and provides a chunk of AP
Based on the observation that there are limited damage options for the Oathkeeper my inclination is to go with something that does damage and heals, or the more utility power of resetting people's encounters and buffing their AP.
I'm also of the opinion that Sanctuary (the daily) and Divine Protector both need either an upgrade or a replacement and in both cases AoE damage combined with a benefit to their Paragon's role seems to be the most needed thing among their current options.
Those ideas sound good though the one that cleanses negative effect from self and allies in a large AoE sounds like a winner. Greater Restoration: heal for 150 magnitude and continued heal over time (magnitude 10) and cleansing negative effects for 8 sec. Range: 90', Radius 60'.
Having a daily that Raises the Dead (like Aura of life used to do) would be useful in certain single party situations and larger groups. Especially if you could cast it from a distance and not have to move into a potential red zone to have it take effect. Yes, I know that in premades folks should have scrolls, but I've run into too many situations where that's not the case. Raise the Dead: Effect would cost 1000 AP, raise all fallen foes in a 25' radius and apply a 200 mag heal would work. Range 90' and rez sickness would be applied, of course.
The last suggestion for AP gain and encounter reset (if not rejected outright) I would take ALOT of liberties and call it Commune. Commune: On casting, you and your allies receive divine foreknowledge of the foes you face. Effect: Encounter powers receive 25% cooldown reduction, divinity regeneration is increased by 5% for 6 sec, and restore 10% of action points.
The damaging/healing daily, I would be a little leery about including as I would be concerned about pulling aggro off the tank. If that isn't an issue I would recommend - Burning Guidance: Divine power punishes your foes while soothing your allies within the area of effect. 1000 AP cost, Mag 45 damage to all enemies within AoE for 8 sec, and 150 mag Heal of time for all allies for 8 sec. Radius 80'.
But I agree, Sanctuary (or Protection from Evil, if you want to rename it to that) should be a part of both paragons' abilities rather than confined to one path. I hope the devs will consider and implement that change. AND UNLOCK OATH OF DEVOTION PLEASE!
And what would be your suggested replacement daily that the Oathkeeper would lose to make this a reality for the class, @obsidiancran3? If you say Raise the Dead or Resurrection then you've got my vote! To me, Oathkeepers and Devo pallies were just paladins in name only and were actually multiclassed fighter/clerics in 4e. window dressing.
Having played AD&D for a considerable time during my youth (much to much according to my parents :-) and in the role of paladin most of that time I see auras as one of the main things one could implement that would be unique to the healing path.
Restore some of that from live to mod 16 for healing pals only such as protection from evil = aura of truth, 10% lower casting time = aura of wisdom, 10% more damage = aura of courage etc.
The very presence of a pal insipire and repel evil so auras is a pretty accurate power for them to have.
As healing is secondary to paladins and major for clerics restoring party to full health and clearing all debuffs when using lay on hands or a daily could also be tied to Oathkeepers.
Adding immunte to certain cc powers like fear paralize as tab for a duration etc would also fit into the role imo.
Best
Similar background @marnival. That's kind of why I felt that Prots were the ACTUAL paladins as far back as when the class was introduced into the game. They had some healing but much of their set up was geared toward survivabilty and defense of the party as a whole, while the devos...well...they healed. It was, and still is, the primary job of the healadin irrespective of build. The one thing that cemented (in my mind anyways) that Devos weren't actually paladins but were fighter/clerics was Aura of Life (aka. Raise the Dead) which earlier iterations of the Paladin (1e - 2e for certain, later not sure) did not have access to as they were limited to 4th level spells or lower. Couple that with Lay on Hands, which restores to full HP (not set number based on level like it does for PnP pallies) and you might as well rename it to...well...Heal. Immunity to CC and other effect would have to be of a short duration to fit within the current balance of the game. Now if the paladin (oathkeeper specifically) is going to fill the role of party healer then it stands to reason, that many of its abilities perform a healing, effect cleansing, temporary immunity, or ability boosting function. My two coppers.
one direct question to devs: if new meta is 3xdps 1xop 1xdc why not give op buff for party and dc debuff for boss (or reverse), make only one buff and one debuff can be active at the same time (not allowing multi op/dc in party), but make that buff/debuff strnog, like Bane it is in live?
@skrewfaz3d#1482 I do have a lot to say, Paladin has been my main since Mod 6, and I play tested it a lot back then as well. (I’ve played SW nearly as much in case you hop over there, and this mod has reinvigorated my interest in GWF, and CW was my first toon to make it to 60, the cap when I started. So now we know why I talk in those threads as well.)
I’m not interested in playing “turtle tank” hiding behind its shield all the time either. That’s why I only run 1 Divinity power, so my play doesn’t turn into hiding behind my shield waiting for my pet and Divinity to return.
Smite is simply out of scale in its DPS.
I remember when Mod6 released and Divine Judgement was basically the hardest hitting daily in the game, Paladin players said “we need it”. It was nerfed to its current (mod15) state in the first week of patches. I would rather get Smite right and not need a nerf in 2 weeks after release.
But it was nerfed once already to its current magnitude of 1200 and like I mentioned, Relentless Avenger is no longer available to the Oathkeeper. It IS the go-to encounter power as it hits harder than bane (though bane is an aoe) and costs nearly a third as much. The other two encounters have cooldowns and of those two, only sacred weapon is even remotely useful. For crowd control, we have banishment (which is MUCH improved now that you can damage foes caught) but it doesn't always catch the mobs and the fight's can go south quickly now that the shield totals have been reduced. And while the Oathkeeper does 10% more damage as they don't have Justicar's penalty that comes with their oath, Oathkeepers also don't have the GENEROUS 40% additional HP to fall back on, nor do they get their divinity restored from shield hits. They have to drop their shield, AND take hits when channeling for more. Heck, the Oathkeeper's oath is STILL temporarily disabled with no idea of what it is or if it will even work when 16 goes live. Bottom line - Out of scale or not, leave Smite alone.
After the initial shock has worn off Im gonna give another round of feedback on the latest patch.
1) Palisade - still dont see a use for it. In theory it sounds like a cool Paladin ability, it just has no place in the Neverwinter action gameplay. It order to be useful it should provide something like a temporary Sanctuary /I mean come on, Paladins = holy barriers/ in a radius around the caster and it should move with the caster while Stamina lasts or its canceled via Tab again. Yes I propose for it to become an On/Off ability instead of a channel. Locking a character down, unable to use powers while casting a channel ability is only good if that ability has an extremely useful effect. Palisade does not have that.
2) The health gain and the decrease of damage depression - at first it seemed as if the Justicar would be op but after seeing other classes I dont think so anymore. Seems nearly any class with endgame gear can reach HP in the 300-400k range so a Tank being 30-40% higher than the rest sounds ok. And I was wrong, its not Justicars who will top the health pools, its Sentinels.
3) Even with the increased survivability and increased dps the lack of actually good Feats and Passives is blatantly apparent. I would gladly give up 10% more of Justicar dps in order to have Feats and Passives like the Barbarian. Giving flat or % stat inceases or healing via certain ability use etc. The Justicar has only 2 active heals / Divine Touch and Heroism /. I feel we need more dynamic self healing like the Sentinel has via Feats. I mean we are Paladins, we should be second best at healing after the Cleric, since other tanks /Fighter, Sentinel/ will always be the more damaging ones.
That's it for the moment
Post edited by emilemo on
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
And what would be your suggested replacement daily that the Oathkeeper would lose to make this a reality for the class, @obsidiancran3? If you say Raise the Dead or Resurrection then you've got my vote! To me, Oathkeepers and Devo pallies were just paladins in name only and were actually multiclassed fighter/clerics in 4e. window dressing.
Having played AD&D for a considerable time during my youth (much to much according to my parents :-) and in the role of paladin most of that time I see auras as one of the main things one could implement that would be unique to the healing path.
Restore some of that from live to mod 16 for healing pals only such as protection from evil = aura of truth, 10% lower casting time = aura of wisdom, 10% more damage = aura of courage etc.
The very presence of a pal insipire and repel evil so auras is a pretty accurate power for them to have.
As healing is secondary to paladins and major for clerics restoring party to full health and clearing all debuffs when using lay on hands or a daily could also be tied to Oathkeepers.
Adding immunte to certain cc powers like fear paralize as tab for a duration etc would also fit into the role imo.
Best
Similar background @marnival. That's kind of why I felt that Prots were the ACTUAL paladins as far back as when the class was introduced into the game. They had some healing but much of their set up was geared toward survivabilty and defense of the party as a whole, while the devos...well...they healed. It was, and still is, the primary job of the healadin irrespective of build. The one thing that cemented (in my mind anyways) that Devos weren't actually paladins but were fighter/clerics was Aura of Life (aka. Raise the Dead) which earlier iterations of the Paladin (1e - 2e for certain, later not sure) did not have access to as they were limited to 4th level spells or lower. Couple that with Lay on Hands, which restores to full HP (not set number based on level like it does for PnP pallies) and you might as well rename it to...well...Heal. Immunity to CC and other effect would have to be of a short duration to fit within the current balance of the game. Now if the paladin (oathkeeper specifically) is going to fill the role of party healer then it stands to reason, that many of its abilities perform a healing, effect cleansing, temporary immunity, or ability boosting function. My two coppers.
Agree to everthing.
I just felt that to further the Paladin part as healer the auras could be unique to them. Sw Dc and Pal must ofc be able to fulfill their role as healer but not necessary the same way. Having some amount of feeling/roleplay built in is imo adding the flavor of the game and the gaming experiance hence the aura part of the healing paladin(protection vs evil, boosing of morale etc).
Class feats for Justicar can be more tied to damage and encounters while healing gets the auras of wisdom, truth, ressurrection etc ..
And what would be your suggested replacement daily that the Oathkeeper would lose to make this a reality for the class, @obsidiancran3? If you say Raise the Dead or Resurrection then you've got my vote! To me, Oathkeepers and Devo pallies were just paladins in name only and were actually multiclassed fighter/clerics in 4e. window dressing.
Having played AD&D for a considerable time during my youth (much to much according to my parents :-) and in the role of paladin most of that time I see auras as one of the main things one could implement that would be unique to the healing path.
Restore some of that from live to mod 16 for healing pals only such as protection from evil = aura of truth, 10% lower casting time = aura of wisdom, 10% more damage = aura of courage etc.
The very presence of a pal insipire and repel evil so auras is a pretty accurate power for them to have.
As healing is secondary to paladins and major for clerics restoring party to full health and clearing all debuffs when using lay on hands or a daily could also be tied to Oathkeepers.
Adding immunte to certain cc powers like fear paralize as tab for a duration etc would also fit into the role imo.
Best
Similar background @marnival. That's kind of why I felt that Prots were the ACTUAL paladins as far back as when the class was introduced into the game. They had some healing but much of their set up was geared toward survivabilty and defense of the party as a whole, while the devos...well...they healed. It was, and still is, the primary job of the healadin irrespective of build. The one thing that cemented (in my mind anyways) that Devos weren't actually paladins but were fighter/clerics was Aura of Life (aka. Raise the Dead) which earlier iterations of the Paladin (1e - 2e for certain, later not sure) did not have access to as they were limited to 4th level spells or lower. Couple that with Lay on Hands, which restores to full HP (not set number based on level like it does for PnP pallies) and you might as well rename it to...well...Heal. Immunity to CC and other effect would have to be of a short duration to fit within the current balance of the game. Now if the paladin (oathkeeper specifically) is going to fill the role of party healer then it stands to reason, that many of its abilities perform a healing, effect cleansing, temporary immunity, or ability boosting function. My two coppers.
Agree to everthing.
I just felt that to further the Paladin part as healer the auras could be unique to them. Sw Dc and Pal must ofc be able to fulfill their role as healer but not necessary the same way. Having some amount of feeling/roleplay built in is imo adding the flavor of the game and the gaming experiance hence the aura part of the healing paladin(protection vs evil, boosing of morale etc).
Class feats for Justicar can be more tied to damage and encounters while healing gets the auras of wisdom, truth, ressurrection etc ..
Oh I agree as well. The class features need a complete rework as well as many have already stated. They are tied to dailies with exception Divine Justice, Composure (and Timely intervention and Focused healing for Oathkeeper). I'm running with the DC Sigil as the main artifact, full points in call of Power and (later) switching to full stacks of Blood Lust and even with that, I'm lucky to get off a daily in under 2 minutes. That's a long time without serious benefits for burning a daily just to have the features activate. In Mod 15, the class features offered immediate benefits, even if some weren't particularly useful to slot. In Mod 16...I feel its just best to run with Composure (and Divine Justice when solo) and not worry much about the rest. I may slot the healing ones if the situation warrants it. The rest, either increase the benefit by another 5-10% or uncouple them with daily usage.
Just got off test after a short look at the changes and here are my first thoughts:
Dps is still kinda high, smite in particular. combined with the weapon buff its pretty much obscene.
The HP buff is nice. I was definitely taking damage from monsters. However, the Companion Heal (retribution buff or some such) was so powerful even after my health bar dropped a fair bit I would almost instantly heal to full. When I turned this off I had to start paying attention to mechanics again.
I used at wills more simply because I didn't need to block (at all with companion) except to recharge divinity. They are still underwhelming, I would love to see a better 3rd strike effect on them.
Palisade is still HAMSTER. It's an almost unusable mechanic. Seriously, Ditch this whole idea and take any one of the 20 suggestions in this thread and it would be better.
So last night I tried DC, mostly so I could see the VFX of its powers so I could know what I was looking at when it appears on the map. However the thing that quickly becomes apparent is the flexibility they have for Divinity recovery that we are missing. It was very easy with the DC to keep my Divinity full, even after draining it in a fight, it was rare that it wasn’t a couple of seconds to have it back to full anyway.
In comparison trying to maintain Divinity with a Paladin is a chore. It is not dynamic or fun to be standing around needing something to hit you with your shield up to get Divinity back.
Perhaps a solution is that we get a buff, Retribution, for taking hits without the shield up. Stacks of Retribution in combat accelerate Divinity gain a small amount, but at the end of Combat they clear and each stack gives 100 Divinity back.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Just got off test after a short look at the changes and here are my first thoughts:
Dps is still kinda high, smite in particular. combined with the weapon buff its pretty much obscene.
The HP buff is nice. I was definitely taking damage from monsters. However, the Companion Heal (retribution buff or some such) was so powerful even after my health bar dropped a fair bit I would almost instantly heal to full. When I turned this off I had to start paying attention to mechanics again.
I used at wills more simply because I didn't need to block (at all with companion) except to recharge divinity. They are still underwhelming, I would love to see a better 3rd strike effect on them.
Palisade is still HAMSTER. It's an almost unusable mechanic. Seriously, Ditch this whole idea and take any one of the 20 suggestions in this thread and it would be better.
I was also having the same impression until i fought beside others 22k cw gfs tr and gfs. I myself use a con artist (which pretty much makes me wonder who is whos companion tbh) and after seeing how other classes fair when I tank (which if you do not as justicar makes you pretty much ignore your role) I am not particular worried about the dps of Justicar vs other dps classes.
The change was at first so much I also came to tjhe conclution it was a bit overbuff I am not that sure at all any more.
As long as you fight in a group and they need you acting like a tank there is no room for you going full dps and if you want to keep the mobs from the party actually tanking using encounters/dailies/feats that helps you do that what you feel is high dps will only be an option in solo or if the party has another tank taking your job.
Comments
The only time I bothered touching it all day was 1) seeing what it did, 2) using it to shout at another Paly (if they can hear it?) 3) an accident. Its simply far better to get aggro, move past the mob and give the whole party combat advantage than try and get them to stand behind you in an insanely small triangle where their damage will suck, because they don't have combat advantage.
Right now its a whole mechanic that is useful in 1 dungeon from before mod 16 and unless similar mechanics forcing the party to hide behind the tank are created for other dungeons in the future, it is basically useless.
Sorry @asterdahl, I just don't understand your steadfast resolve to force this functionality.
This is another take that doesn't "feel good".
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
From the get go in Undermountain, I was struggling to fight my way through the mobs even the small weak ones, that was before I even got to the portal. At level 70 I feel my character is really weak and it takes a long time to kill anything once the meager supply of divinity has run out. I have read what other people have said about the powers being mostly useless or weak and I totally agree 100%, they are. While killing cultists in the catacombs, it took me so long to kill them, they had respawned again before I could move away, after killing them for a 2nd time, I had to run for it or I would have been there all day just killing the one group of them. (I have never had to do that before and I was really disappointed.) What would really make a good change is to take at least a minimum of 8 seconds off the cooldown of Sacred Weapon, that would go a long way to fixing things in my opinion.
Also can someone tell me what is magnitude, is it the new word for damage? It was a lot easier when it just said "does x amount of damage" it made it easier to pick which powers to use. I did think it might be area but you get range and radius, obviously not that then.
Another thing is the gear you get for doing the quests, I just sold it. It wasn't as good as the armour I had on, some from Barovia, some off the Auction house in protectors enclave, because soloing means I don't do dungeons. Maybe you could make it better as I know a lot of people probably had even better gear than I did.
I know this is preview and that changes will be made, but it didn't make it any less disappointing. I hope that things will get better as I was really happy with my Paladin.
Edit: Looks like the fixed it so the Spy's guild set can be purchased with seals of the mountain. Pick those up in the master expeditions, which is repeatable 3 times a day.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
As Pal can not do damage while tanking using binding oath gives far more damage then Relentless when tanking. As I written before giving more to this ability to give damage while tanking, that is radiant reflective damage when hit, and adding threat to it would add much more to Pals then having another non aggro high damage encounter. Smite together with dailies is pretty good as it is and to further our ablitity to gain threat and giving damage by encounters such as binding aoth would help both dps and thread building while tanking.
It is easy enough to increase this by adding some feats and build in taunt on the reflective damage from binding aoth.
Best
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
Encounters used in tanking need to have their activation time cut to either instant or close to that.
As it is now you are either interrupted or just have to cansel them all the time because the activation time is far to long.
This prevent you from controlling the fight to being controlled by the fight this is especially true when fighting several mobs or boss mobs what has long attack sequences. Being stunned, knocked down, paralyzed when trying to grab aggro because of the long casting times is both unwanted and unneeded.
Best
Without seeing your stats (DnD ones and game ones) and rotations it’s hard to know why you are struggling.
As to solo gear, right now on preview some of the best gear in the game is gained by solo play through Master Expeditions, so that is fully supported. Yes the very best gear in the game (at the moment) requires you to do Lair of the Mad Mage, but you will be able to improve your gear to only marginally behind that purely through solo play.
As to gear for levelling through to 80, I just re-leveled my main again and her current gear on live I replaced in the last zone and with rings gained getting there. I replaced it because the overall stat balance I gain from the wretched set is better than my Mod15 gear, and that is more important than the specific buffs that gear offers.
Quick Vid of trash clearing in the first bits of Undermountain with a very badly geared Paladin:
The reason the tank seems to struggle is me trying to aggro multiple mobs together to kill.
I also note the spawn rate in this spot is still a little fast, but it will need it on launch of 16 anyway just due to traffic.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Ok I have played Paladin, Warlock, Barbarian and Control Wizard in the new campaign.
When Tank Paladins had a 30% debuff on everything that huge damage on Smite was needed to be able to play the game effectively, and it was a big win for Heals.
Now we do 90% of damage with tanks. You know what I don’t see on any DPS class? A power that can be cast 3 times in 6 seconds with a magnitude over 1000.
It’s ridiculous that a tank has better access to raw dps than the dps classes.
It’s made more ridiculous by the insane HP buff, which should have simply been a shield buff.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
Paladin players don’t like the current shield.
Paladin players do like Sanctuary.
Paladin players do like Auras (but not the current ones on Preview).
So...
TAB becomes “Divine Sanctuary”
Divine Sanctuary: Radius 15' Divinity Cost: 100 per second.
While Divine Sanctuary is active you are immune to control effects.
Additional Effects: Allies in Divine Sanctuary gain a 5% damage reduction are healed over time.
Magnitude: 0.5 Heal.
Aura Effects: Divine Sanctuary can be modified by Auras. Having 2 auras active increases the Divinity Cost of Divine Sanctuary by 50.
Auras would then remain passive powers. There should be 4 of them that are available 2 shared and 2 that are specific.
Example Shared Ideas:
Greater Sanctuary: The area of Divine Sanctuary is increased to 30'.
Additional Effect: Divine Sanctuary increases its cost by 100 per second.
Aura of Purity: When you activate Divine Sanctuary allies in the Sanctuary lose 1 status effect and cannot gain status effects for its duration.
Additional Effect: Divine Sanctuary no longer provides damage reduction or healing.
Example Paragon Ideas:
Protection from Evil: When you activate Divine Sanctuary allies in the Sanctuary have their threat reduced by 50%.
Additional Effect: Divine Sanctuary provides 8% Damage reduction and no longer heals.
Aura of Life: When you activate Divine Sanctuary allies in the Sanctuary are healed.
Magnitude 50 Heal.
Additional Effect: Divine Sanctuary now heals 5 times for 1.5 magnitude and no longer provides Damage Reduction.
This makes Divine Sanctuary a definitive feature of the Paladin, and really makes it stand out from the other Healers and Tanks in its play style and benefits it brings to the group, while also reflecting elements of the class that people feel are missing at the moment in Mod16.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
As to what to replace it with...
At the moment we have Divine Judgement is a raw single target damage attack, Radiant Charge is directed AoE with a small interrupt, Shield of Faith is a buff, Lay on Hands is a large single target heal and buff.
That leaves us with AoE heal as a daily, (Healing Font), or making something new. New options that spring to mind include:
- something that restores unconscious allies to some sort of health (without revive sickness) as there are several Paladin powers in 4E that do that and 5E Paladins still have Raise Dead
- something that cleanses negative effects and prevents them from being applied for a duration
- something that does 1000 single target damage and burst heals based on that
- something that does 500 AoE damage and heals from that over time
- some permutation of the last 2 suggestions
- something that resets everyone's encounters and provides a chunk of AP
Based on the observation that there are limited damage options for the Oathkeeper my inclination is to go with something that does damage and heals, or the more utility power of resetting people's encounters and buffing their AP.I'm also of the opinion that Sanctuary (the daily) and Divine Protector both need either an upgrade or a replacement and in both cases AoE damage combined with a benefit to their Paragon's role seems to be the most needed thing among their current options.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Restore some of that from live to mod 16 for healing pals only such as protection from evil = aura of truth, 10% lower casting time = aura of wisdom, 10% more damage = aura of courage etc.
The very presence of a pal insipire and repel evil so auras is a pretty accurate power for them to have.
As healing is secondary to paladins and major for clerics restoring party to full health and clearing all debuffs when using lay on hands or a daily could also be tied to Oathkeepers.
Adding immunte to certain cc powers like fear paralize as tab for a duration etc would also fit into the role imo.
Best
The last boss is a mess and I died on the first boss when I got overrun by a horde of trolls.
For those not familiar with it, there is now a little bar over each PC's name that indicates how much aggro they have, as you can see by watching this I mostly manage to maintain aggro through the whole thing, even with a Barbie running ahead.
There is a lot of "holding your shield up" in this, but that isn't as easy as it seems.
You can see a my gear and build near the end of the video.
Watch Mod 16 Preview: Tales of Old Icespire Peak from ObsidianCrane on www.twitch.tv
My conclusion at the end is still that Vow of Enmity needs to a) hit harder and b) have a 5s faster cool down to help cover times when Divinity is scarce when holding aggro.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
A lot of "holding up the shield" isn't that fun. I can say with this recent update, I don't have to hold up a shield too often for regular campaign content. I haven't had too much experience in group/dungeon content but I may agree that the damage/hp buff can be tweaked back a little based on generic stuff.
I’m not interested in playing “turtle tank” hiding behind its shield all the time either. That’s why I only run 1 Divinity power, so my play doesn’t turn into hiding behind my shield waiting for my pet and Divinity to return.
Smite is simply out of scale in its DPS.
I remember when Mod6 released and Divine Judgement was basically the hardest hitting daily in the game, Paladin players said “we need it”. It was nerfed to its current (mod15) state in the first week of patches. I would rather get Smite right and not need a nerf in 2 weeks after release.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Having a daily that Raises the Dead (like Aura of life used to do) would be useful in certain single party situations and larger groups. Especially if you could cast it from a distance and not have to move into a potential red zone to have it take effect. Yes, I know that in premades folks should have scrolls, but I've run into too many situations where that's not the case. Raise the Dead: Effect would cost 1000 AP, raise all fallen foes in a 25' radius and apply a 200 mag heal would work. Range 90' and rez sickness would be applied, of course.
The last suggestion for AP gain and encounter reset (if not rejected outright) I would take ALOT of liberties and call it Commune.
Commune: On casting, you and your allies receive divine foreknowledge of the foes you face. Effect: Encounter powers receive 25% cooldown reduction, divinity regeneration is increased by 5% for 6 sec, and restore 10% of action points.
The damaging/healing daily, I would be a little leery about including as I would be concerned about pulling aggro off the tank. If that isn't an issue I would recommend - Burning Guidance: Divine power punishes your foes while soothing your allies within the area of effect. 1000 AP cost, Mag 45 damage to all enemies within AoE for 8 sec, and 150 mag Heal of time for all allies for 8 sec. Radius 80'.
But I agree, Sanctuary (or Protection from Evil, if you want to rename it to that) should be a part of both paragons' abilities rather than confined to one path. I hope the devs will consider and implement that change. AND UNLOCK OATH OF DEVOTION PLEASE!
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
1) Palisade - still dont see a use for it. In theory it sounds like a cool Paladin ability, it just has no place in the Neverwinter action gameplay. It order to be useful it should provide something like a temporary Sanctuary /I mean come on, Paladins = holy barriers/ in a radius around the caster and it should move with the caster while Stamina lasts or its canceled via Tab again. Yes I propose for it to become an On/Off ability instead of a channel. Locking a character down, unable to use powers while casting a channel ability is only good if that ability has an extremely useful effect. Palisade does not have that.
2) The health gain and the decrease of damage depression - at first it seemed as if the Justicar would be op but after seeing other classes I dont think so anymore. Seems nearly any class with endgame gear can reach HP in the 300-400k range so a Tank being 30-40% higher than the rest sounds ok. And I was wrong, its not Justicars who will top the health pools, its Sentinels.
3) Even with the increased survivability and increased dps the lack of actually good Feats and Passives is blatantly apparent. I would gladly give up 10% more of Justicar dps in order to have Feats and Passives like the Barbarian. Giving flat or % stat inceases or healing via certain ability use etc. The Justicar has only 2 active heals / Divine Touch and Heroism /. I feel we need more dynamic self healing like the Sentinel has via Feats. I mean we are Paladins, we should be second best at healing after the Cleric, since other tanks /Fighter, Sentinel/ will always be the more damaging ones.
That's it for the moment
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I just felt that to further the Paladin part as healer the auras could be unique to them. Sw Dc and Pal must ofc be able to fulfill their role as healer but not necessary the same way. Having some amount of feeling/roleplay built in is imo adding the flavor of the game and the gaming experiance hence the aura part of the healing paladin(protection vs evil, boosing of morale etc).
Class feats for Justicar can be more tied to damage and encounters while healing gets the auras of wisdom, truth, ressurrection etc ..
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
Dps is still kinda high, smite in particular. combined with the weapon buff its pretty much obscene.
The HP buff is nice. I was definitely taking damage from monsters. However, the Companion Heal (retribution buff or some such) was so powerful even after my health bar dropped a fair bit I would almost instantly heal to full. When I turned this off I had to start paying attention to mechanics again.
I used at wills more simply because I didn't need to block (at all with companion) except to recharge divinity. They are still underwhelming, I would love to see a better 3rd strike effect on them.
Palisade is still HAMSTER. It's an almost unusable mechanic. Seriously, Ditch this whole idea and take any one of the 20 suggestions in this thread and it would be better.
In comparison trying to maintain Divinity with a Paladin is a chore. It is not dynamic or fun to be standing around needing something to hit you with your shield up to get Divinity back.
Perhaps a solution is that we get a buff, Retribution, for taking hits without the shield up. Stacks of Retribution in combat accelerate Divinity gain a small amount, but at the end of Combat they clear and each stack gives 100 Divinity back.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The change was at first so much I also came to tjhe conclution it was a bit overbuff I am not that sure at all any more.
As long as you fight in a group and they need you acting like a tank there is no room for you going full dps and if you want to keep the mobs from the party actually tanking using encounters/dailies/feats that helps you do that what you feel is high dps will only be an option in solo or if the party has another tank taking your job.
Best