Okay. Everything I've seen so far makes me think that this might be good. I do have a few questions though. Will there be a professions bank where I can dump all of the raw materials/tools into? I've got 20 alts with tons of HAMSTER I'd like to consolidate. They all have 25's in all of their professions. Will I be able to manage ALL of my alts professions at the same time? Or do I have 20 separate workshops that I have to mail stuff back and forth to? Next, I've got about 400 rare and epic quality dudes to do the tasks, is that system obsolete? Will having master/epic craftsman still have the impact that it does now?
> @osric13th said: > Will I be able to manage ALL of my alts professions at the same time? Or do I have 20 separate workshops that I have to mail stuff back and forth to?
You will have a separate workshop for each character. I believe mail will still be the only way to move profession resources.
> Next, I've got about 400 rare and epic quality dudes to do the tasks, is that system obsolete? Will having master/epic craftsman still have the impact that it does now?
All of your craftsmen will be converted into varying degrees of labor vouchers which can then be transferred into exchange currency for the new assets or I assume donated to your guild's coffer.
I did not see any response to my question. If this information was already discussed, I did not see it.
Where will we be able to get enchanting stones from?
Currently most of the green and blue ones come from Leadership Tasks and the rank 21 - 25 coffers, caches and such, and purple ones are a very rare reward from Enchanted Coffer (Rank 23 and Rank 25 Leadership tasks). I did not see anywhere to buy and I did not see a profession task that rewards one. If these are no longer available in the professions, then will we have to buy them after the mod?
You can currently farm them in the Dread Ring lair quests, along with xMoPs. This is not expected to change with the update.
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
Another suggestion: There shouldn't be any crafting tasks that cost more to commission in gold, than the gathered/ crafted resource sells for in gold. In the real world if a product costs more to make then it sells for, you stop producing that product, and that will be end up being the case in this economy. In fact there should be a gold profit margin.. say 1 -5% on most items. If an items sell for 1 gold then the cost to produce should be slightly less than 1 gold. The other option is to say that 1 GP = X AD, then allow us to sell all gathered/crafted items to a vendor for AD, which makes professions also work as a gold to AD conversion tool (could also just make a currency conversion gathering task, and like most currency conversions in the real world, the gatherer would take a percentage of the trade). While I agree that professions should not be a "get something for nothing" en devour, it should also not be a loss center.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Another suggestion: There shouldn't be any crafting tasks that cost more to commission in gold, than the gathered/ crafted resource sells for in gold. In the real world if a product costs more to make then it sells for, you stop producing that product, and that will be end up being the case in this economy. In fact there should be a gold profit margin.. say 1 -5% on most items. If an items sell for 1 gold then the cost to produce should be slightly less than 1 gold. The other option is to say that 1 GP = X AD, then allow us to sell all gathered/crafted items to a vendor for AD, which makes professions also work as a gold to AD conversion tool (could also just make a currency conversion gathering task, and like most currency conversions in the real world, the gatherer would take a percentage of the trade). While I agree that professions should not be a "get something for nothing" en devour, it should also not be a loss center.
In the real world, you can't just unload an infinite amount of product at-will. If you try and sell things in bulk quickly, you very quickly have to reduce your prices, possibly to lower than average cost of production (though hopefully not lower than marginal cost of production!) That's why liquidity problems are an issue.
Vendor buy-back prices aren't intended to be the sell price of items, and the player market is going to be fluid: price will rise to the point where it's worth producing, or the item won't be produced.
All of your craftsmen will be converted into varying degrees of labor vouchers which can then be transferred into exchange currency for the new assets or I assume donated to your guild's coffer.
You will need to hire and train new artisans.
A question about this conversion: Is it automatic or do you have to "sell" your Grandmaster Platesmiths for vouchers? If it's automatic, are the vouchers transferrable? Because I have a LOT of Assets on bank alts because my asset tab is way too full on my main crafters, and it would really suck for, like, a dozen GM Mailsmiths to get converted into toon-bound vouchers on the wrong toon just because I was storing them there.
Forgive me, but I say DO SOMETHING WITH Leadership. As Leadership. Make it go after funky weird items you can't get with normal crafting gather. Maybe the come back failures, or wounded or even dead and you have to spend gold to rez them. ;p
Seriously, you have Acquisitions Inc coming into the game and the all their funny but ultimately silly send the Interns (Leadership resources) off to go quest for you shtick, and NOW is when you choose to abandon Leadership instead of transforming to meet this challenge/theme? Really?...
Where is that Game Of Thrones Nun swinging the bell as you walk through the streets of Protector's Enclave when we need her?
"Shame!....." *Ding "Shame!...." *Ding "Shame!..... " *Ding Just Kiddin.
C''mon Developers, your better then that. Make somethin' up! I know you can. Your Awesome! Your the same company that made Doff and Admiralty Missions for your sister game Star Trek. Sometimes those Doff officers come back from off screen adventure injured. Sometimes the ships fail- they always have a cooldown (repairs). Such tings could happen to our NPC Adventurers on a "disastrous" or failed attempt to escort a caravan or steal treasure from a dragon too.
Anyway, thanks for your time. If the above didn't seem like something possible- I understand. I am saddened, but I understand.
Forgive me, but I say DO SOMETHING WITH Leadership. As Leadership. Make it go after funky weird items you can't get with normal crafting gather. Maybe the come back failures, or wounded or even dead and you have to spend gold to rez them. ;p
Seriously, you have Acquisitions Inc coming into the game and the all their funny but ultimately silly send the Interns (Leadership resources) off to go quest for you shtick, and NOW is when you choose to abandon Leadership instead of transforming to meet this challenge/theme? Really?...
Where is that Game Of Thrones Nun swinging the bell as you walk through the streets of Protector's Enclave when we need her?
"Shame!....." *Ding "Shame!...." *Ding "Shame!..... " *Ding Just Kiddin.
C''mon Developers, your better then that. Make somethin' up! I know you can. Your Awesome! Your the same company that made Doff and Admiralty Missions for your sister game Star Trek. Sometimes those Doff officers come back from off screen adventure injured. Sometimes the ships fail- they always have a cooldown (repairs). Such tings could happen to our NPC Adventurers on a "disastrous" or failed attempt to escort a caravan or steal treasure from a dragon too.
Anyway, thanks for your time. If the above didn't seem like something possible- I understand. I am saddened, but I understand.
I hope at least it was an amusing read.
Cheers!
I actually expected a tie in to Acq. Inc with the workshop. That seemed to make too much sense...
> @lowjohn said: > A question about this conversion: Is it automatic or do you have to "sell" your Grandmaster Platesmiths for vouchers? > If it's automatic, are the vouchers transferrable?
It is automatic. I did not check if they were transferable. If someone doesn't answer that part I'll find out tonight when I get home.
So let me get this straight we now have to spend Zen for an RNG chance to get an artisan better than white? And if we don't get 1 we just wasted that Zen for absolutely nothing because there isn't anything else on the pack. And there isn't any way to upgrade the artisans so you have to get an epic by paying money for the RNG chance to get 1 or your just SOL. Plus they are all character bound so your doubly SOL on sending old artisans to other characters if you get something better.
Congratulations on making all the current mastercrafters that actually make it through your new RNG wall absolute kings on setting whatever price they want for Mastercraft items. GG
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
It's been answered before: The crate tasks WILL be part of the new system, they're just not on preview yet because they're not ready. They'll be there before Live.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
That's not the issue. The question is not about being added to preview. The question is which profession will get the tasks that were in leadership? Gathering or a different one? If it is a different one, shouldn't anyone with leadership at 25 get that profession at max level, or at least at what ever level it takes to craft the crates, like others will get gathering at max if they maxed another profession?
It would not be fair to move the crates to another profession and not provide a way for someone who already had the ability to craft them to start over. If they crates will be added to gathering, then no harm no foul. If the crates are removed from the game, again no harm no foul. But based on previous comments the crates will remain, it does not appear gathering is going to provide any finished products. So, the crates will likely be elsewhere and that will be an issue. Anything that was craftable in leadership and is remaining in the game, should be available to all players who could previously craft them and they need to provide that method if they had not considered doing it.
In case you missed it, one of the goals of this update is punishing people who developed leadership for doing so.
So let me get this straight we now have to spend Zen for an RNG chance to get an artisan better than white? And if we don't get 1 we just wasted that Zen for absolutely nothing because there isn't anything else on the pack. And there isn't any way to upgrade the artisans so you have to get an epic by paying money for the RNG chance to get 1 or your just SOL. Plus they are all character bound so your doubly SOL on sending old artisans to other characters if you get something better.
Congratulations on making all the current mastercrafters that actually make it through your new RNG wall absolute kings on setting whatever price they want for Mastercraft items. GG
Seeing as their goal is to have fewer people participating in the professions (How horrendously passive aggressive can you get ?) that's not a bug but a feature territory. It lures people to spend money on gambling that is rigged against them and they are likely to leave the system before getting any benefit from it.
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zephyriahMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,980Arc User
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
It's been answered before: The crate tasks WILL be part of the new system, they're just not on preview yet because they're not ready. They'll be there before Live.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
That's not the issue. The question is not about being added to preview. The question is which profession will get the tasks that were in leadership? Gathering or a different one? If it is a different one, shouldn't anyone with leadership at 25 get that profession at max level, or at least at what ever level it takes to craft the crates, like others will get gathering at max if they maxed another profession?
It would not be fair to move the crates to another profession and not provide a way for someone who already had the ability to craft them to start over. If they crates will be added to gathering, then no harm no foul. If the crates are removed from the game, again no harm no foul. But based on previous comments the crates will remain, it does not appear gathering is going to provide any finished products. So, the crates will likely be elsewhere and that will be an issue. Anything that was craftable in leadership and is remaining in the game, should be available to all players who could previously craft them and they need to provide that method if they had not considered doing it.
In case you missed it, one of the goals of this update is punishing people who developed leadership for doing so.
I don't believe that for a sec.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
It's been answered before: The crate tasks WILL be part of the new system, they're just not on preview yet because they're not ready. They'll be there before Live.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
That's not the issue. The question is not about being added to preview. The question is which profession will get the tasks that were in leadership? Gathering or a different one? If it is a different one, shouldn't anyone with leadership at 25 get that profession at max level, or at least at what ever level it takes to craft the crates, like others will get gathering at max if they maxed another profession?
It would not be fair to move the crates to another profession and not provide a way for someone who already had the ability to craft them to start over. If they crates will be added to gathering, then no harm no foul. If the crates are removed from the game, again no harm no foul. But based on previous comments the crates will remain, it does not appear gathering is going to provide any finished products. So, the crates will likely be elsewhere and that will be an issue. Anything that was craftable in leadership and is remaining in the game, should be available to all players who could previously craft them and they need to provide that method if they had not considered doing it.
In case you missed it, one of the goals of this update is punishing people who developed leadership for doing so.
The goal is to change the system to one that doesn't encourage the kind of behavior the old system did. If you want to interpret that as punishing people for pursuing leadership, by all means. It is definitely a *loss* for those that pursued leadership relative to the current system, and that is likely working as intended. But not everything that reduces your bottom line is intended as a punishment.
So let me get this straight we now have to spend Zen for an RNG chance to get an artisan better than white? And if we don't get 1 we just wasted that Zen for absolutely nothing because there isn't anything else on the pack. And there isn't any way to upgrade the artisans so you have to get an epic by paying money for the RNG chance to get 1 or your just SOL. Plus they are all character bound so your doubly SOL on sending old artisans to other characters if you get something better.
Congratulations on making all the current mastercrafters that actually make it through your new RNG wall absolute kings on setting whatever price they want for Mastercraft items. GG
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
It's been answered before: The crate tasks WILL be part of the new system, they're just not on preview yet because they're not ready. They'll be there before Live.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
That's not the issue. The question is not about being added to preview. The question is which profession will get the tasks that were in leadership? Gathering or a different one? If it is a different one, shouldn't anyone with leadership at 25 get that profession at max level, or at least at what ever level it takes to craft the crates, like others will get gathering at max if they maxed another profession?
It would not be fair to move the crates to another profession and not provide a way for someone who already had the ability to craft them to start over. If they crates will be added to gathering, then no harm no foul. If the crates are removed from the game, again no harm no foul. But based on previous comments the crates will remain, it does not appear gathering is going to provide any finished products. So, the crates will likely be elsewhere and that will be an issue. Anything that was craftable in leadership and is remaining in the game, should be available to all players who could previously craft them and they need to provide that method if they had not considered doing it.
In case you missed it, one of the goals of this update is punishing people who developed leadership for doing so.
The goal is to change the system to one that doesn't encourage the kind of behavior the old system did. If you want to interpret that as punishing people for pursuing leadership, by all means. It is definitely a *loss* for those that pursued leadership relative to the current system, and that is likely working as intended. But not everything that reduces your bottom line is intended as a punishment.
No, I interpret making leadership essentially valueless as punishing leadership. What's more I interpret making people who have leadership level up another profession while people who don't have leadership gain it for free as punishing leadership.
Your last line is priceless, would you care for maybe "Not everything that hurts you is painful" ? Or hey I just volunteered you as a practice subject at the dental school, it's not that I don't like you, it's just they need to learn how to do extractions.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
So let me get this straight we now have to spend Zen for an RNG chance to get an artisan better than white? And if we don't get 1 we just wasted that Zen for absolutely nothing because there isn't anything else on the pack. And there isn't any way to upgrade the artisans so you have to get an epic by paying money for the RNG chance to get 1 or your just SOL. Plus they are all character bound so your doubly SOL on sending old artisans to other characters if you get something better.
Congratulations on making all the current mastercrafters that actually make it through your new RNG wall absolute kings on setting whatever price they want for Mastercraft items. GG
Hi so I have a question about the Astral Diamond Crates and Corvee labor that we generated out from Leadership... We leveled up Leadership to 23 and above to be able to generate these items for the guild... and since you vaporized leadership these items will be done by the other professions... if I am a player that only leveled leadership then I essentially do not have the any ability anymore to generate these items because I do not have any other profession that will be at the high level required in making these tasks. I think it will only be fair to think about how this can be addressed if the player only leveled leadership. I hope I make sense.
It's been answered before: The crate tasks WILL be part of the new system, they're just not on preview yet because they're not ready. They'll be there before Live.
And your Leadership 25 will translate to Gathering 70, which is pretty decent, even if it's not "Leadership 25" profitable any more. You might have to level other professions for your stronghold loot, but at least you can trade Leadership assets and products for credit towards other profession people if you want that.
That's not the issue. The question is not about being added to preview. The question is which profession will get the tasks that were in leadership? Gathering or a different one? If it is a different one, shouldn't anyone with leadership at 25 get that profession at max level, or at least at what ever level it takes to craft the crates, like others will get gathering at max if they maxed another profession?
It would not be fair to move the crates to another profession and not provide a way for someone who already had the ability to craft them to start over. If they crates will be added to gathering, then no harm no foul. If the crates are removed from the game, again no harm no foul. But based on previous comments the crates will remain, it does not appear gathering is going to provide any finished products. So, the crates will likely be elsewhere and that will be an issue. Anything that was craftable in leadership and is remaining in the game, should be available to all players who could previously craft them and they need to provide that method if they had not considered doing it.
In case you missed it, one of the goals of this update is punishing people who developed leadership for doing so.
The goal is to change the system to one that doesn't encourage the kind of behavior the old system did. If you want to interpret that as punishing people for pursuing leadership, by all means. It is definitely a *loss* for those that pursued leadership relative to the current system, and that is likely working as intended. But not everything that reduces your bottom line is intended as a punishment.
No, I interpret making leadership essentially valueless as punishing leadership. What's more I interpret making people who have leadership level up another profession while people who don't have leadership gain it for free as punishing leadership.
Your last line is priceless, would you care for maybe "Not everything that hurts you is painful" ? Or hey I just volunteered you as a practice subject at the dental school, it's not that I don't like you, it's just they need to learn how to do extractions.
I guess you could say it's a semantics argument-I'm basically just saying you need a better operational definition of punishment.
If you want to say punishment = painful, then sure: the new profession is "punishment" for leadership users. But you've divorced the word punishment from any meaningful context. Cryptic isn't changing professions because they have some kind of malice towards leadership users; it's because they think the existing system is problematic and are doing things that they believe solve those problems.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
RE: RNG: Because we are introducing the concept of a success rate when crafting an item, you could say that more randomness is indeed being introduced. However, for leveling recipes, as long as you keep your artisans equipped with new tools (which are now obtained via in game means by simply crafting the tools or purchasing them from other players off the auction house) you should have a high success rate when crafting items.
And that's the worst thing you could possibly have done. Please understand that the omnipresence of the RNG is already the single worst thing about Neverwinter. You just took the single worst thing about the game and made it even more oppressive.
Just take a step back and try to understand that you should be taking the RNG out of the game in every possible way so that whatever players' investment is - money, time, years of waiting for class balancing or a decent post-mod 6 boss encounter - it actually pays off. You're creating a game that only gambling addicts will want anything to do with. Also, we are seriously sick of every major rework amounting to: "Hey, you invested tons of time and/or money into this to make it work? Great, we're throwing all that out and making the whole thing less rewarding."
How many times in how many ways do we have to tell you this before it finally sinks in?
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silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
So let me get this straight we now have to spend Zen for an RNG chance to get an artisan better than white? And if we don't get 1 we just wasted that Zen for absolutely nothing because there isn't anything else on the pack. And there isn't any way to upgrade the artisans so you have to get an epic by paying money for the RNG chance to get 1 or your just SOL. Plus they are all character bound so your doubly SOL on sending old artisans to other characters if you get something better.
Congratulations on making all the current mastercrafters that actually make it through your new RNG wall absolute kings on setting whatever price they want for Mastercraft items. GG
No, you do not have that straight. It has been clearly stated already that higher quality Artisans will apply as you rank up your Workshop.
But this should also answer some speculation about whether or not the zen market purchase is the only way to get rare and epic artisans. (It is not.) As your workshop improves, better and better artisans will be interested in applying, with rank 3 unlocking rare artisans and rank 4 unlocking epic artisans. (On preview right now, it is possible to get all rarities from the start, this will change.) To be clear, unlocking rank 3 and rank 4 does not guarantee rare or epic applications but puts them into the mix.
RE: RNG: Because we are introducing the concept of a success rate when crafting an item, you could say that more randomness is indeed being introduced. However, for leveling recipes, as long as you keep your artisans equipped with new tools (which are now obtained via in game means by simply crafting the tools or purchasing them from other players off the auction house) you should have a high success rate when crafting items.
And that's the worst thing you could possibly have done. Please understand that the omnipresence of the RNG is already the single worst thing about Neverwinter. You just took the single worst thing about the game and made it even more oppressive.
Just take a step back and try to understand that you should be taking the RNG out of the game in every possible way so that whatever players' investment is - money, time, years of waiting for class balancing or a decent post-mod 6 boss encounter - it actually pays off. You're creating a game that only gambling addicts will want anything to do with. Also, we are seriously sick of every major rework amounting to: "Hey, you invested tons of time and/or money into this to make it work? Great, we're throwing all that out and making the whole thing less rewarding."
How many times in how many ways do we have to tell you this before it finally sinks in?
RNG is what allows players to be profitable, by having a wide enough wallet to eat the losses on duds. It's why back before there were top tier shirts from campaign shots et al, it was still pretty easy to make a profit making Gemmed Exquisite Whatever Shirts and whatnot; if you had the purple tools, you would have a 60% chance of success and a 40% chance of failure, and the people who made a profit were the ones working at a sufficient scale that they could eat the occasional losses.
Now, what I will agree with is that since the new professions system is more "labored" perhaps we don't need that randomness element to be in the game anymore. But the randomness making returns inconsistent wasn't a bug, it was a feature.
Another suggestion: There shouldn't be any crafting tasks that cost more to commission in gold, than the gathered/ crafted resource sells for in gold. In the real world if a product costs more to make then it sells for, you stop producing that product, and that will be end up being the case in this economy. In fact there should be a gold profit margin.. say 1 -5% on most items. If an items sell for 1 gold then the cost to produce should be slightly less than 1 gold. The other option is to say that 1 GP = X AD, then allow us to sell all gathered/crafted items to a vendor for AD, which makes professions also work as a gold to AD conversion tool (could also just make a currency conversion gathering task, and like most currency conversions in the real world, the gatherer would take a percentage of the trade). While I agree that professions should not be a "get something for nothing" en devour, it should also not be a loss center.
In the real world, you can't just unload an infinite amount of product at-will. If you try and sell things in bulk quickly, you very quickly have to reduce your prices, possibly to lower than average cost of production (though hopefully not lower than marginal cost of production!) That's why liquidity problems are an issue.
Vendor buy-back prices aren't intended to be the sell price of items, and the player market is going to be fluid: price will rise to the point where it's worth producing, or the item won't be produced.
In the real world and this world shops buy things for less than they sell them for but more than what they cost the manufacturer.
Seeing as you can't produce an infinite amount of anything in this game having all items cost less than the shop retail cost but more than the wholesale purchase cost makes perfect sense.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
RE: RNG: Because we are introducing the concept of a success rate when crafting an item, you could say that more randomness is indeed being introduced. However, for leveling recipes, as long as you keep your artisans equipped with new tools (which are now obtained via in game means by simply crafting the tools or purchasing them from other players off the auction house) you should have a high success rate when crafting items.
And that's the worst thing you could possibly have done. Please understand that the omnipresence of the RNG is already the single worst thing about Neverwinter. You just took the single worst thing about the game and made it even more oppressive.
Just take a step back and try to understand that you should be taking the RNG out of the game in every possible way so that whatever players' investment is - money, time, years of waiting for class balancing or a decent post-mod 6 boss encounter - it actually pays off. You're creating a game that only gambling addicts will want anything to do with. Also, we are seriously sick of every major rework amounting to: "Hey, you invested tons of time and/or money into this to make it work? Great, we're throwing all that out and making the whole thing less rewarding."
How many times in how many ways do we have to tell you this before it finally sinks in?
RNG is what allows players to be profitable, by having a wide enough wallet to eat the losses on duds. It's why back before there were top tier shirts from campaign shots et al, it was still pretty easy to make a profit making Gemmed Exquisite Whatever Shirts and whatnot; if you had the purple tools, you would have a 60% chance of success and a 40% chance of failure, and the people who made a profit were the ones working at a sufficient scale that they could eat the occasional losses.
Now, what I will agree with is that since the new professions system is more "labored" perhaps we don't need that randomness element to be in the game anymore. But the randomness making returns inconsistent wasn't a bug, it was a feature.
That is complete nonsense. People spent AD on crafted items because they didn't want to bother crafting them themselves. They would have spent that AD whether or not there was a given success/failure rate involved. Failure is not a necessary component of success. The overuse of RNG is why mastercrafting is basically a scam. Three layers of oppressive never-works-as-advertised RNG in which it costs millions of AD to get a chance of success better than 20% (or whatever it is, I really haven't looked at it in over a year) is absurd. The new system is worse, and it addresses absolutely none of what was really wrong with professions.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
Things that were actually wrong with professions: 1) Did not make gear that was competitive with minimal rewards from dungeons/skirmishes/seals. 2) Lack of customizable gear. Why have fixed recipes if the player's making his/her own items? 3) Tedious interface without "collect all" buttons. 4) Overuse of multi-layer RNG in mastercrafting means you have to be OCD or a sucker to actually go through with it. 5) Temporary mastercrafting vendors in guild strongholds were an obnoxious resource sink. Not being able to keep all the necessary ones in the same stronghold at the same time despite the enormous stronghold map was ridiculous. 6) Having to essentially make a new guild just to hold the explorer's boon was also obnoxious.
Obvious solutions:
1) New recipes that are slightly better than blue dungeon gear but not as good as Seals of the Crown gear. 2) Customizable gear. The player gets to allocate stats from a pool within limits (i.e. gear at a certain level will provide a certain amount of HP - since that mistake has been around since mod 5 - which cannot be exchanged for power, deflect, etc.). 3) Collect All button 4) Change mastercrafting success rate to mastercrafting completion percentage. 5) Just have a mastercrafting building in PE with all vendors. 6) Put the explorer's boon building in a previously vacant space on the guild map.
Things actually fixed by new system:
......
4
silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
The wording they have been using stating that Leadership is converting to Gathering is unfortunate. Because if you really examine it closely, you see that that is an incorrect statement. What is actually happening is that Leadership is being deleted. Completely removed. Gathering is not "the new Leadership". It is a different thing altogether. If I remove Apple and add Orange, I have not turned Apple into Orange.
All existing players are being given the new Gathering Profession at a level equal to that of their highest level in any other Profession. Even if their highest level Profession was the Leadership Profession, despite the fact that it is being removed. While Leadership being removed is a setback for many players (including myself - I always have 14 characters with 9 slots of Leadership running), I feel they are actually handling it in a fair way.
I know that Leadership is harder to level than the other Professions. Believe me, I know! But, it has always been the most rewarding Profession and that is clearly why it is the slowest to level. Now, one thing I would suggest if they want to make up for the fact that Leadership levels represented more of a grind to obtain is to convert green or better Leadership Resources into the supplements called "XP Manuals". They are already doing this with Bags of Gems.
Things that were actually wrong with professions: 1) Did not make gear that was competitive with minimal rewards from dungeons/skirmishes/seals. 2) Lack of customizable gear. Why have fixed recipes if the player's making his/her own items? 3) Tedious interface without "collect all" buttons. 4) Overuse of multi-layer RNG in mastercrafting means you have to be OCD or a sucker to actually go through with it. 5) Temporary mastercrafting vendors in guild strongholds were an obnoxious resource sink. Not being able to keep all the necessary ones in the same stronghold at the same time despite the enormous stronghold map was ridiculous. 6) Having to essentially make a new guild just to hold the explorer's boon was also obnoxious.
Obvious solutions:
1) New recipes that are slightly better than blue dungeon gear but not as good as Seals of the Crown gear. 2) Customizable gear. The player gets to allocate stats from a pool within limits (i.e. gear at a certain level will provide a certain amount of HP - since that mistake has been around since mod 5 - which cannot be exchanged for power, deflect, etc.). 3) Collect All button 4) Change mastercrafting success rate to mastercrafting completion percentage. 5) Just have a mastercrafting building in PE with all vendors. 6) Put the explorer's boon building in a previously vacant space on the guild map.
Things actually fixed by new system:
......
After having read all of this through this is the conclusion I've come to as well. The new system fixes none of the faults in the old one, introduces a HAMSTER ton of new problems and basically screws over anyone who's bothered investing in the old professions system, especially Leadership and Black Ice Crafting (the latter is just going poof, or did I miss something?) ON the whole they appear to committed to getting people to not do professions at all.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
The wording they have been using stating that Leadership is converting to Gathering is unfortunate. Because if you really examine it closely, you see that that is an incorrect statement. What is actually happening is that Leadership is being deleted. Completely removed. Gathering is not "the new Leadership". It is a different thing altogether.
Spot on, except for the last statement. Gathering is not different. Gathering is a new profession, split from all professions except Leadership.
1
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Things that were actually wrong with professions: 1) Did not make gear that was competitive with minimal rewards from dungeons/skirmishes/seals. 2) Lack of customizable gear. Why have fixed recipes if the player's making his/her own items? 3) Tedious interface without "collect all" buttons. 4) Overuse of multi-layer RNG in mastercrafting means you have to be OCD or a sucker to actually go through with it. 5) Temporary mastercrafting vendors in guild strongholds were an obnoxious resource sink. Not being able to keep all the necessary ones in the same stronghold at the same time despite the enormous stronghold map was ridiculous. 6) Having to essentially make a new guild just to hold the explorer's boon was also obnoxious.
Obvious solutions:
1) New recipes that are slightly better than blue dungeon gear but not as good as Seals of the Crown gear. 2) Customizable gear. The player gets to allocate stats from a pool within limits (i.e. gear at a certain level will provide a certain amount of HP - since that mistake has been around since mod 5 - which cannot be exchanged for power, deflect, etc.). 3) Collect All button 4) Change mastercrafting success rate to mastercrafting completion percentage. 5) Just have a mastercrafting building in PE with all vendors. 6) Put the explorer's boon building in a previously vacant space on the guild map.
Things actually fixed by new system:
......
After having read all of this through this is the conclusion I've come to as well. The new system fixes none of the faults in the old one, introduces a HAMSTER ton of new problems and basically screws over anyone who's bothered investing in the old professions system, especially Leadership and Black Ice Crafting (the latter is just going poof, or did I miss something?) ON the whole they appear to committed to getting people to not do professions at all.
I do think the goal is to get less people to do professions, yes. Now the question we are left with is, why is that their goal?
If it's automatic, are the vouchers transferrable?
The vouchers are transferable via mail.
BUG or Incorrect Tooltip When attempting to place converted assets into my personal or shared bank. Tooltip states that I can double-click to do so, when attempting an error message pops stating "Item does not go there".
> @silvergryph said: > So let me get this straight we now have to spend Zen for an RNG chance to get an artisan better than white? And if we don't get 1 we just wasted that Zen for absolutely nothing because there isn't anything else on the pack. And there isn't any way to upgrade the artisans so you have to get an epic by paying money for the RNG chance to get 1 or your just SOL. Plus they are all character bound so your doubly SOL on sending old artisans to other characters if you get something better. > > > > Congratulations on making all the current mastercrafters that actually make it through your new RNG wall absolute kings on setting whatever price they want for Mastercraft items. GG > > No, you do not have that straight. It has been clearly stated already that higher quality Artisans will apply as you rank up your Workshop. But this should also answer some speculation about whether or not the zen market purchase is the only way to get rare and epic artisans. (It is not.) As your workshop improves, better and better artisans will be interested in applying, with rank 3 unlocking rare artisans and rank 4 unlocking epic artisans. (On preview right now, it is possible to get all rarities from the start, this will change.) To be clear, unlocking rank 3 and rank 4 does not guarantee rare or epic applications but puts them into the mix.
Maybe time will tell. But there should never be anything in the Zen Market that is set up like these packs. There should never be an item that you BUY and then have an all or nothing RNG chance to get something. Even lockboxes aren't that bad. These packs should at least have random materials in them also to off set the at least some of the money spent on them if you only get white artisans.
Is it any real difference to the person you pick out of the line up to start out on this new system? I went with the red haired lady .Learned long ago to never cross a ginger.
> @theycallmetomu said: > Things that were actually wrong with professions: > 1) Did not make gear that was competitive with minimal rewards from dungeons/skirmishes/seals. > 2) Lack of customizable gear. Why have fixed recipes if the player's making his/her own items? > 3) Tedious interface without "collect all" buttons. > 4) Overuse of multi-layer RNG in mastercrafting means you have to be OCD or a sucker to actually go through with it. > 5) Temporary mastercrafting vendors in guild strongholds were an obnoxious resource sink. Not being able to keep all the necessary ones in the same stronghold at the same time despite the enormous stronghold map was ridiculous. > 6) Having to essentially make a new guild just to hold the explorer's boon was also obnoxious. > > Obvious solutions: > > 1) New recipes that are slightly better than blue dungeon gear but not as good as Seals of the Crown gear. > 2) Customizable gear. The player gets to allocate stats from a pool within limits (i.e. gear at a certain level will provide a certain amount of HP - since that mistake has been around since mod 5 - which cannot be exchanged for power, deflect, etc.). > 3) Collect All button > 4) Change mastercrafting success rate to mastercrafting completion percentage. > 5) Just have a mastercrafting building in PE with all vendors. > 6) Put the explorer's boon building in a previously vacant space on the guild map. > > Things actually fixed by new system: > > > ...... > > > > After having read all of this through this is the conclusion I've come to as well. The new system fixes none of the faults in the old one, introduces a HAMSTER ton of new problems and basically screws over anyone who's bothered investing in the old professions system, especially Leadership and Black Ice Crafting (the latter is just going poof, or did I miss something?) > ON the whole they appear to committed to getting people to not do professions at all. > > I do think the goal is to get less people to do professions, yes. Now the question we are left with is, why is that their goal?
That is an easy question to answer. Kill this particular play style.
The dev team thinks that there should only be one way to play this game, their way. Any other play styles are not how they intend for the game to be played so they will try to kill it.
4
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
> Things that were actually wrong with professions:
> 1) Did not make gear that was competitive with minimal rewards from dungeons/skirmishes/seals.
> 2) Lack of customizable gear. Why have fixed recipes if the player's making his/her own items?
> 3) Tedious interface without "collect all" buttons.
> 4) Overuse of multi-layer RNG in mastercrafting means you have to be OCD or a sucker to actually go through with it.
> 5) Temporary mastercrafting vendors in guild strongholds were an obnoxious resource sink. Not being able to keep all the necessary ones in the same stronghold at the same time despite the enormous stronghold map was ridiculous.
> 6) Having to essentially make a new guild just to hold the explorer's boon was also obnoxious.
>
> Obvious solutions:
>
> 1) New recipes that are slightly better than blue dungeon gear but not as good as Seals of the Crown gear.
> 2) Customizable gear. The player gets to allocate stats from a pool within limits (i.e. gear at a certain level will provide a certain amount of HP - since that mistake has been around since mod 5 - which cannot be exchanged for power, deflect, etc.).
> 3) Collect All button
> 4) Change mastercrafting success rate to mastercrafting completion percentage.
> 5) Just have a mastercrafting building in PE with all vendors.
> 6) Put the explorer's boon building in a previously vacant space on the guild map.
>
> Things actually fixed by new system:
>
>
> ......
>
>
>
> After having read all of this through this is the conclusion I've come to as well. The new system fixes none of the faults in the old one, introduces a HAMSTER ton of new problems and basically screws over anyone who's bothered investing in the old professions system, especially Leadership and Black Ice Crafting (the latter is just going poof, or did I miss something?)
> ON the whole they appear to committed to getting people to not do professions at all.
>
> I do think the goal is to get less people to do professions, yes. Now the question we are left with is, why is that their goal?
That is an easy question to answer. Kill this particular play style.
The dev team thinks that there should only be one way to play this game, their way. Any other play styles are not how they intend for the game to be played so they will try to kill it.
Sure, but the question is, why?
Why do they care?
I mean, there's a dozen different possible theories I could spot. I feel like the player base likes to act like it's just ego and forgo seeking any other sort of explanation. Personally I suspect it's marketing related.
Comments
Will there be a professions bank where I can dump all of the raw materials/tools into? I've got 20 alts with tons of HAMSTER I'd like to consolidate. They all have 25's in all of their professions. Will I be able to manage ALL of my alts professions at the same time? Or do I have 20 separate workshops that I have to mail stuff back and forth to?
Next, I've got about 400 rare and epic quality dudes to do the tasks, is that system obsolete? Will having master/epic craftsman still have the impact that it does now?
> Will I be able to manage ALL of my alts professions at the same time? Or do I have 20 separate workshops that I have to mail stuff back and forth to?
You will have a separate workshop for each character. I believe mail will still be the only way to move profession resources.
> Next, I've got about 400 rare and epic quality dudes to do the tasks, is that system obsolete? Will having master/epic craftsman still have the impact that it does now?
All of your craftsmen will be converted into varying degrees of labor vouchers which can then be transferred into exchange currency for the new assets or I assume donated to your guild's coffer.
You will need to hire and train new artisans.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
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"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Vendor buy-back prices aren't intended to be the sell price of items, and the player market is going to be fluid: price will rise to the point where it's worth producing, or the item won't be produced.
If it's automatic, are the vouchers transferrable? Because I have a LOT of Assets on bank alts because my asset tab is way too full on my main crafters, and it would really suck for, like, a dozen GM Mailsmiths to get converted into toon-bound vouchers on the wrong toon just because I was storing them there.
Seriously, you have Acquisitions Inc coming into the game and the all their funny but ultimately silly send the Interns (Leadership resources) off to go quest for you shtick, and NOW is when you choose to abandon Leadership instead of transforming to meet this challenge/theme? Really?...
Where is that Game Of Thrones Nun swinging the bell as you walk through the streets of Protector's Enclave when we need her?
"Shame!....." *Ding "Shame!...." *Ding "Shame!..... " *Ding Just Kiddin.
C''mon Developers, your better then that. Make somethin' up! I know you can. Your Awesome! Your the same company that made Doff and Admiralty Missions for your sister game Star Trek. Sometimes those Doff officers come back from off screen adventure injured. Sometimes the ships fail- they always have a cooldown (repairs). Such tings could happen to our NPC Adventurers on a "disastrous" or failed attempt to escort a caravan or steal treasure from a dragon too.
Anyway, thanks for your time. If the above didn't seem like something possible- I understand. I am saddened, but I understand.
I hope at least it was an amusing read.
Cheers!
> A question about this conversion: Is it automatic or do you have to "sell" your Grandmaster Platesmiths for vouchers?
> If it's automatic, are the vouchers transferrable?
It is automatic. I did not check if they were transferable. If someone doesn't answer that part I'll find out tonight when I get home.
Congratulations on making all the current mastercrafters that actually make it through your new RNG wall absolute kings on setting whatever price they want for Mastercraft items. GG
Your last line is priceless, would you care for maybe "Not everything that hurts you is painful" ?
Or hey I just volunteered you as a practice subject at the dental school, it's not that I don't like you, it's just they need to learn how to do extractions.
If you want to say punishment = painful, then sure: the new profession is "punishment" for leadership users. But you've divorced the word punishment from any meaningful context. Cryptic isn't changing professions because they have some kind of malice towards leadership users; it's because they think the existing system is problematic and are doing things that they believe solve those problems.
Just take a step back and try to understand that you should be taking the RNG out of the game in every possible way so that whatever players' investment is - money, time, years of waiting for class balancing or a decent post-mod 6 boss encounter - it actually pays off. You're creating a game that only gambling addicts will want anything to do with. Also, we are seriously sick of every major rework amounting to: "Hey, you invested tons of time and/or money into this to make it work? Great, we're throwing all that out and making the whole thing less rewarding."
How many times in how many ways do we have to tell you this before it finally sinks in?
Champions Online Advanced Forum Search
Now, what I will agree with is that since the new professions system is more "labored" perhaps we don't need that randomness element to be in the game anymore. But the randomness making returns inconsistent wasn't a bug, it was a feature.
Seeing as you can't produce an infinite amount of anything in this game having all items cost less than the shop retail cost but more than the wholesale purchase cost makes perfect sense.
Failure is not a necessary component of success.
The overuse of RNG is why mastercrafting is basically a scam.
Three layers of oppressive never-works-as-advertised RNG in which it costs millions of AD to get a chance of success better than 20% (or whatever it is, I really haven't looked at it in over a year) is absurd.
The new system is worse, and it addresses absolutely none of what was really wrong with professions.
1) Did not make gear that was competitive with minimal rewards from dungeons/skirmishes/seals.
2) Lack of customizable gear. Why have fixed recipes if the player's making his/her own items?
3) Tedious interface without "collect all" buttons.
4) Overuse of multi-layer RNG in mastercrafting means you have to be OCD or a sucker to actually go through with it.
5) Temporary mastercrafting vendors in guild strongholds were an obnoxious resource sink. Not being able to keep all the necessary ones in the same stronghold at the same time despite the enormous stronghold map was ridiculous.
6) Having to essentially make a new guild just to hold the explorer's boon was also obnoxious.
Obvious solutions:
1) New recipes that are slightly better than blue dungeon gear but not as good as Seals of the Crown gear.
2) Customizable gear. The player gets to allocate stats from a pool within limits (i.e. gear at a certain level will provide a certain amount of HP - since that mistake has been around since mod 5 - which cannot be exchanged for power, deflect, etc.).
3) Collect All button
4) Change mastercrafting success rate to mastercrafting completion percentage.
5) Just have a mastercrafting building in PE with all vendors.
6) Put the explorer's boon building in a previously vacant space on the guild map.
Things actually fixed by new system:
......
All existing players are being given the new Gathering Profession at a level equal to that of their highest level in any other Profession. Even if their highest level Profession was the Leadership Profession, despite the fact that it is being removed. While Leadership being removed is a setback for many players (including myself - I always have 14 characters with 9 slots of Leadership running), I feel they are actually handling it in a fair way.
I know that Leadership is harder to level than the other Professions. Believe me, I know! But, it has always been the most rewarding Profession and that is clearly why it is the slowest to level. Now, one thing I would suggest if they want to make up for the fact that Leadership levels represented more of a grind to obtain is to convert green or better Leadership Resources into the supplements called "XP Manuals". They are already doing this with Bags of Gems.
Champions Online Advanced Forum Search
ON the whole they appear to committed to getting people to not do professions at all.
BUG or Incorrect Tooltip
When attempting to place converted assets into my personal or shared bank. Tooltip states that I can double-click to do so, when attempting an error message pops stating "Item does not go there".
> So let me get this straight we now have to spend Zen for an RNG chance to get an artisan better than white? And if we don't get 1 we just wasted that Zen for absolutely nothing because there isn't anything else on the pack. And there isn't any way to upgrade the artisans so you have to get an epic by paying money for the RNG chance to get 1 or your just SOL. Plus they are all character bound so your doubly SOL on sending old artisans to other characters if you get something better.
>
>
>
> Congratulations on making all the current mastercrafters that actually make it through your new RNG wall absolute kings on setting whatever price they want for Mastercraft items. GG
>
> No, you do not have that straight. It has been clearly stated already that higher quality Artisans will apply as you rank up your Workshop. But this should also answer some speculation about whether or not the zen market purchase is the only way to get rare and epic artisans. (It is not.) As your workshop improves, better and better artisans will be interested in applying, with rank 3 unlocking rare artisans and rank 4 unlocking epic artisans. (On preview right now, it is possible to get all rarities from the start, this will change.) To be clear, unlocking rank 3 and rank 4 does not guarantee rare or epic applications but puts them into the mix.
Maybe time will tell. But there should never be anything in the Zen Market that is set up like these packs. There should never be an item that you BUY and then have an all or nothing RNG chance to get something. Even lockboxes aren't that bad. These packs should at least have random materials in them also to off set the at least some of the money spent on them if you only get white artisans.
> Things that were actually wrong with professions:
> 1) Did not make gear that was competitive with minimal rewards from dungeons/skirmishes/seals.
> 2) Lack of customizable gear. Why have fixed recipes if the player's making his/her own items?
> 3) Tedious interface without "collect all" buttons.
> 4) Overuse of multi-layer RNG in mastercrafting means you have to be OCD or a sucker to actually go through with it.
> 5) Temporary mastercrafting vendors in guild strongholds were an obnoxious resource sink. Not being able to keep all the necessary ones in the same stronghold at the same time despite the enormous stronghold map was ridiculous.
> 6) Having to essentially make a new guild just to hold the explorer's boon was also obnoxious.
>
> Obvious solutions:
>
> 1) New recipes that are slightly better than blue dungeon gear but not as good as Seals of the Crown gear.
> 2) Customizable gear. The player gets to allocate stats from a pool within limits (i.e. gear at a certain level will provide a certain amount of HP - since that mistake has been around since mod 5 - which cannot be exchanged for power, deflect, etc.).
> 3) Collect All button
> 4) Change mastercrafting success rate to mastercrafting completion percentage.
> 5) Just have a mastercrafting building in PE with all vendors.
> 6) Put the explorer's boon building in a previously vacant space on the guild map.
>
> Things actually fixed by new system:
>
>
> ......
>
>
>
> After having read all of this through this is the conclusion I've come to as well. The new system fixes none of the faults in the old one, introduces a HAMSTER ton of new problems and basically screws over anyone who's bothered investing in the old professions system, especially Leadership and Black Ice Crafting (the latter is just going poof, or did I miss something?)
> ON the whole they appear to committed to getting people to not do professions at all.
>
> I do think the goal is to get less people to do professions, yes. Now the question we are left with is, why is that their goal?
That is an easy question to answer. Kill this particular play style.
The dev team thinks that there should only be one way to play this game, their way. Any other play styles are not how they intend for the game to be played so they will try to kill it.
Why do they care?
I mean, there's a dozen different possible theories I could spot. I feel like the player base likes to act like it's just ego and forgo seeking any other sort of explanation. Personally I suspect it's marketing related.