There should be no way to exchange there currencies into AD imo
I think this kind of exchange is very good for game... For new players and old players, this will bring "back" old maps and this is awesome New players will have better options to get RAD so this is good too but this must be balanced... For example: Dread Ring = 100 Vanguard Scripts for 1k AD, you need to do a LOT to get 100 Scripts and Voninblod exchange is way to easy. Im glad that i drew attention of Cryptic Developers
forumnamesuxsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 490Arc User
@noworries#8859 Thank you for looking in to this. It's not just the earning rate vs difficulty that factors in to my worries about some of the rAD for campaign currency situation on preview.
It's nice to have an alternative to dungeons, so don't make it too expensive, but if campaign currency farming is the superior way to cap daily RAD's, especially a mind numbingly boring task like voninblood farming, then people will bore themselves out of this game. Chult currency trade for RAD also seem a bit imbalanced to me, but I honestly can't remember the riches / hour rate one can earn them, so I might be wrong about that one.
Neverwinter Online is a DnD based MMORPG. Let's treat it as such.
just cap the RAD gain from the Campaign stores. Like you can max exchange Voninblod for rAD 25k daily. That costs 10k Voninblod. That is perfect solution. You need to farm for 1 hour to get that amount to pay up for rAD.
1
alphastreamMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 209Arc User
This is good feedback and we will look into it. It isn't a matter of "well there is a 100k cap so it doesn't matter" the goal is balance in earning rates/difficulties between content and this is a good call out.
My biggest feedback here is that allowing the exchange of campaign currency for RAD provides an incentive that takes away from donating to coffers and progressing campaigns. When you leave it as ill-defined as general currency, players begin to farm the most efficient forms repeatedly. Instead, if the idea is that playing campaigns should contribute to RAD, then do that! Have quests earn RAD so people go back to actually doing campaigns. Dread Ring and Sharandar would work particularly well with their quest structures - add RAD to those quests and you will see people doing actual content more often, vs engaging in behavior that is contrary to the actual campaigns (and taking away from Guild progress).
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That's fair and the vonin exchange rate will probably be the one adjusted given (as you've shown), its much easier to net a large amount with relatively little effort. Will it take longer to acquire a comparable amount of AD? Yes. But its still fairly easy to obtain and if the devs are worried about one they might want to make some tweaks for the other. Couple that will the likelihood that many who farmed that zone for the old ascended set, and possibly during double seals weekend might be sitting on a minor hoard of AD in the form of abandon treasures. I don't know about you but I was also planning on dumping my abandon treasures for AD and I suspect others probably do the same. Bottom line : If noworries and crew want to take a look at it, take a look at it and if they determine its not worth adjusting in RD but need to in SKT - fine. Just do it before it goes live and not come back later and readjust the rate.
They are going to have to look at the farm-able rates for the currencies. and see what they want to do. sharandar 150 crescents DR 100 vanguard scrip underdark 100 demonic ichor tod 100 dragon coins SKT 50 voniblod icewind dale 20 konig coin 1 aurils tear 1 dwarf gold cloaked ascendancy 50 abandoned treasures chult 25 chultan riches and 25 omuan treasures ravenloft 50 barovian coins
There are at least 2 that have inherent caps on being farmed...Icewind dale you can only get 3 tears and 3 gold from the dailies per day. Underdark you have a weekly cap on demonic ichor. So those two you can't farm.
You really can't farm sharandar or dread ring either as the currency amounts listed would take quite a while to get. Tyranny Of Dragons to me is in the same vein. Not really worth time spent.
Now I do think harder content should be more rewarding somewhat. Just not as rewarding as 50 voninblod / 1K RAD would be.
That's fair and the vonin exchange rate will probably be the one adjusted given (as you've shown), its much easier to net a large amount with relatively little effort. Will it take longer to acquire a comparable amount of AD? Yes. But its still fairly easy to obtain and if the devs are worried about one they might want to make some tweaks for the other. Couple that will the likelihood that many who farmed that zone for the old ascended set, and possibly during double seals weekend might be sitting on a minor hoard of AD in the form of abandon treasures. I don't know about you but I was also planning on dumping my abandon treasures for AD and I suspect others probably do the same. Bottom line : If noworries and crew want to take a look at it, take a look at it and if they determine its not worth adjusting in RD but need to in SKT - fine. Just do it before it goes live and not come back later and readjust the rate.
They are going to have to look at the farm-able rates for the currencies. and see what they want to do. sharandar 150 crescents DR 100 vanguard scrip underdark 100 demonic ichor tod 100 dragon coins SKT 50 voniblod icewind dale 20 konig coin 1 aurils tear 1 dwarf gold cloaked ascendancy 50 abandoned treasures chult 25 chultan riches and 25 omuan treasures ravenloft 50 barovian coins
There are at least 2 that have inherent caps on being farmed...Icewind dale you can only get 3 tears and 3 gold from the dailies per day. Underdark you have a weekly cap on demonic ichor. So those two you can't farm.
You really can't farm sharandar or dread ring either as the currency amounts listed would take quite a while to get. Tyranny Of Dragons to me is in the same vein. Not really worth time spent.
Now I do think harder content should be more rewarding somewhat. Just not as rewarding as 50 voninblod / 1K RAD would be.
I dont like this for one simple reason and that reason is that people still need to farm a lot of voninblod to get the boons but if you start letting people farm this currency for AD then it will just make it even harder for people doing the campaign to harvest what they need.
But I think almost every currency can be traded for RAD... So... *shrug* Shouldn't matter.
Edit: And on top of that i dont want to see PPL all day in SKT maps only because this will be easiest way to get a RAD and believe me... A lot of players will spend all day in this map instead of doing dungeons and other things.
No they won't. I hate farming relics for voninblod. So much so, in fact, that I have three characters that only need voninblod to get the last two boons from the campaign and have made no progress on this since March. Even farming one relic for 1k rAD isn't enough to get me to step foot in any of the four maps where you can get relics. If it were 10k rAD per 50 voninblod, then I'd probably do this a little bit after running the epic dungeons and random dungeons that I want to run and then only as long as it took me to reach 100k rAD for the day. If I already reached that amount, I still wouldn't do this even for 10k rAD per 50 voninblod.
As for running IWD quests to turn in those currencies for rAD, I won't be doing that, either. My guild needs Frozen Treasures and I would much rather spend those currencies generating vouchers than generating rAD. I really don't care to run IWD, Sharandar, or DR quests and tend to do them only enough to get the weekly done and also do the relevant Support quest from the SH once per week per character. Any currencies I get from those zones get used to make vouchers for the guild. If I could make vouchers for Treasures of Tyranny, then I'd do more WoD in order to do that. I can't, though, and I really don't enjoy those quests, either.
Edit: And on top of that i dont want to see PPL all day in SKT maps only because this will be easiest way to get a RAD and believe me... A lot of players will spend all day in this map instead of doing dungeons and other things.
No they won't. I hate farming relics for voninblod. So much so, in fact, that I have three characters that only need voninblod to get the last two boons from the campaign and have made no progress on this since March. Even farming one relic for 1k rAD isn't enough to get me to step foot in any of the four maps where you can get relics. If it were 10k rAD per 50 voninblod, then I'd probably do this a little bit after running the epic dungeons and random dungeons that I want to run and then only as long as it took me to reach 100k rAD for the day. If I already reached that amount, I still wouldn't do this even for 10k rAD per 50 voninblod.
As for running IWD quests to turn in those currencies for rAD, I won't be doing that, either. My guild needs Frozen Treasures and I would much rather spend those currencies generating vouchers than generating rAD. I really don't care to run IWD, Sharandar, or DR quests and tend to do them only enough to get the weekly done and also do the relevant Support quest from the SH once per week per character. Any currencies I get from those zones get used to make vouchers for the guild. If I could make vouchers for Treasures of Tyranny, then I'd do more WoD in order to do that. I can't, though, and I really don't enjoy those quests, either.
Please dont speak for everybody I know that some ppl will never do this but like i write in my comment "A lot of players..." that dosent mean all players
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I dont like this for one simple reason and that reason is that people still need to farm a lot of voninblod to get the boons but if you start letting people farm this currency for AD then it will just make it even harder for people doing the campaign to harvest what they need.
But I think almost every currency can be traded for RAD... So... *shrug* Shouldn't matter.
Yeah, but most currency is locked between quests or some form of content other than "run around in circles on the map."
Vorinblood in particular feels very bot-farmable, which makes me worry.
Basically, here's my stance: there are the things that are hard, and there are the things that are boring.
There can be hard boring things. There can be easy non-boring things. A player who wishes to optimize their RAD acquisition will move towards easy means of doing so. Therefore, when possible, it's best to avoid making the easiest things the most boring.
Vorinblood farming for RAD basically turns into a chore, the way the current professions system is-it's mindlessly repetitive and involves little interaction but if you don't do it it feels like leaving money on the table. Other campaign currencies are gated behind quests, which limits how many you can run and involves a bit more dynamic element, so I'd focus on those.
Edit: And on top of that i dont want to see PPL all day in SKT maps only because this will be easiest way to get a RAD and believe me... A lot of players will spend all day in this map instead of doing dungeons and other things.
No they won't. I hate farming relics for voninblod. So much so, in fact, that I have three characters that only need voninblod to get the last two boons from the campaign and have made no progress on this since March. Even farming one relic for 1k rAD isn't enough to get me to step foot in any of the four maps where you can get relics. If it were 10k rAD per 50 voninblod, then I'd probably do this a little bit after running the epic dungeons and random dungeons that I want to run and then only as long as it took me to reach 100k rAD for the day. If I already reached that amount, I still wouldn't do this even for 10k rAD per 50 voninblod.
As for running IWD quests to turn in those currencies for rAD, I won't be doing that, either. My guild needs Frozen Treasures and I would much rather spend those currencies generating vouchers than generating rAD. I really don't care to run IWD, Sharandar, or DR quests and tend to do them only enough to get the weekly done and also do the relevant Support quest from the SH once per week per character. Any currencies I get from those zones get used to make vouchers for the guild. If I could make vouchers for Treasures of Tyranny, then I'd do more WoD in order to do that. I can't, though, and I really don't enjoy those quests, either.
Please dont speak for everybody I know that some ppl will never do this but like i write in my comment "A lot of players..." that dosent mean all players
True enough. Sorry for that. I don't think it will be "most" players, even. Might still be a lot, but I don't think it will be the majority.
Edit: And on top of that i dont want to see PPL all day in SKT maps only because this will be easiest way to get a RAD and believe me... A lot of players will spend all day in this map instead of doing dungeons and other things.
No they won't. I hate farming relics for voninblod. So much so, in fact, that I have three characters that only need voninblod to get the last two boons from the campaign and have made no progress on this since March. Even farming one relic for 1k rAD isn't enough to get me to step foot in any of the four maps where you can get relics. If it were 10k rAD per 50 voninblod, then I'd probably do this a little bit after running the epic dungeons and random dungeons that I want to run and then only as long as it took me to reach 100k rAD for the day. If I already reached that amount, I still wouldn't do this even for 10k rAD per 50 voninblod.
As for running IWD quests to turn in those currencies for rAD, I won't be doing that, either. My guild needs Frozen Treasures and I would much rather spend those currencies generating vouchers than generating rAD. I really don't care to run IWD, Sharandar, or DR quests and tend to do them only enough to get the weekly done and also do the relevant Support quest from the SH once per week per character. Any currencies I get from those zones get used to make vouchers for the guild. If I could make vouchers for Treasures of Tyranny, then I'd do more WoD in order to do that. I can't, though, and I really don't enjoy those quests, either.
Please dont speak for everybody I know that some ppl will never do this but like i write in my comment "A lot of players..." that dosent mean all players
True enough. Sorry for that. I don't think it will be "most" players, even. Might still be a lot, but I don't think it will be the majority.
No problem Maybe you are right but still this exchange is sick
True enough. Sorry for that. I don't think it will be "most" players, even. Might still be a lot, but I don't think it will be the majority.
Add me, and most of my guild buddies, to the list of players that will never step foot in that miserable zone again. I got my boons on 1 toon at normal rate. Then my 2nd toon I took through I couldn't bring myself to finish the last 2 boons until over a year had gone by. I won't even think about taking a 3rd one in there. Campaign completion tokens were created with SKT in mind as far as Im concerned.
there needs to be as many ways as possible to make AD rather than just run, random q..random q..random q..random q...what does it matter how people hit that 100k? we all hit it daily anyway it won't change the economy
the more ways people can hit that cap, the more time we can spend doing content we actually feel like doing or helping other people/guild.
4
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
there needs to be as many ways as possible to make AD rather than just run, random q..random q..random q..random q...what does it matter how people hit that 100k? we all hit it daily anyway it won't change the economy
the more ways people can hit that cap, the more time we can spend doing content we actually feel like doing or helping other people/guild.
I guess it's more that I'd rather that Vorinblood not be the path of least resistance on hitting the cap, is all, because it encourages vorinblood farming, which I don't think is in the Mission Statement of Neverwinter.
i doubt it really matters much. the farming will happen no matter what really. i would think that would be a boring way to get all of your AD. or you bot it, and if they add so many easy ways to bot farm, maybe they will catch more bots???
1
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
i doubt it really matters much. the farming will happen no matter what really. i would think that would be a boring way to get all of your AD. or you bot it, and if they add so many easy ways to bot farm, maybe they will catch more bots???
That's lazy. You design games so that the incentives line up with what you want players to do. Anything else is just abdication of the responsibility of designers.
I mean, if we were REALLY going to go down the "100k AD do it your way whatever I don't care" route, what they should do is create an in-game Forgotten Realms trivia quiz that you get RAD by answering lore questions on a daily basis.
...
So, I originally proposed that as a ridiculous idea, but in retrospect, that actually would serve a lot of purposes: if you gave players an incentive to care about Forgotten Realms lore, not only do you get them more invested in the game itself, but also in the D&D Forgotten Realms IP, which I imagine WotC would be happy with as it increases their brand penetration.
Lets be honest here - if there is any activity witch can bring AD you will find persons who gona do it a lot. No matter if that would be resonable/time effective etc. Sure, If some ways gona be better/easier thats the path most peoples will follow no matter what.
And I hope I am wrong here - but if all those alternative ways of earning ADs gona be more affective then doing a dungeons (and so far it looks that way) a lot of players will limit their dungeon activity witch are already not rewarding.
i doubt it really matters much. the farming will happen no matter what really. i would think that would be a boring way to get all of your AD. or you bot it, and if they add so many easy ways to bot farm, maybe they will catch more bots???
If I were going to farm my rAD that way, I would have to bot it. Since I have no idea how to do that, nor am I interested in learning about it, and since it breaks the ToS, I'm left with farming it the manual way. LOL. I've recently been farming it on my warlock because I decided I want to restore my Hexweaver's Grimoire. I did it for half an hour, was dismayed to see that I'd only gotten about 8k voninblod for my relics, and decided that was all the relic farming I can stand doing for the month. I'll probably get it done around Thanksgiving.
The latest change in preview is now 300 vonin 1 ten towns 1 secret of ostoria 1 runic piece....so its essentially not worth farming or doing...this will only be if you have extra left over after the campaign...as expected these weren't intended to really be sources of RAD...this is mainly now only going to be for people who have extra on them to turn in when mod 15 goes live..otherwise these all just aren't worth rate of return by far.
The latest change in preview is now 300 vonin 1 ten towns 1 secret of ostoria 1 runic piece....so its essentially not worth farming or doing...this will only be if you have extra left over after the campaign...as expected these weren't intended to really be sources of RAD...this is mainly now only going to be for people who have extra on them to turn in when mod 15 goes live..otherwise these all just aren't worth rate of return by far.
I'm really happy that they changed that My work here is done
The latest change in preview is now 300 vonin 1 ten towns 1 secret of ostoria 1 runic piece....so its essentially not worth farming or doing...this will only be if you have extra left over after the campaign...as expected these weren't intended to really be sources of RAD...this is mainly now only going to be for people who have extra on them to turn in when mod 15 goes live..otherwise these all just aren't worth rate of return by far.
I think that change is quite reasonable. It makes the weeklies more attractive again. It won't be as rewarding as the older weeklies (Dread Ring/Sharandar/Icewind Dale), but it is stuff you can do while waiting for queues to start. With Runestead as bottleneck for Runic Pieces you can make 8k rAD from two instances and a bit of gathering each week.
The latest change in preview is now 300 vonin 1 ten towns 1 secret of ostoria 1 runic piece....so its essentially not worth farming or doing...this will only be if you have extra left over after the campaign...as expected these weren't intended to really be sources of RAD...this is mainly now only going to be for people who have extra on them to turn in when mod 15 goes live..otherwise these all just aren't worth rate of return by far.
I'm really happy that they changed that My work here is done
I think this was a fair compromise. Adding the other currencies (that are provided by running actual content vice relic farming) always seems like an optimal solution.
Comments
Thank you for looking in to this.
It's not just the earning rate vs difficulty that factors in to my worries about some of the rAD for campaign currency situation on preview.
It's nice to have an alternative to dungeons, so don't make it too expensive, but if campaign currency farming is the superior way to cap daily RAD's, especially a mind numbingly boring task like voninblood farming, then people will bore themselves out of this game.
Chult currency trade for RAD also seem a bit imbalanced to me, but I honestly can't remember the riches / hour rate one can earn them, so I might be wrong about that one.
Neverwinter Online is a DnD based MMORPG. Let's treat it as such.
And remember, kids, say no to voninblood.
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sharandar 150 crescents
DR 100 vanguard scrip
underdark 100 demonic ichor
tod 100 dragon coins
SKT 50 voniblod
icewind dale 20 konig coin 1 aurils tear 1 dwarf gold
cloaked ascendancy 50 abandoned treasures
chult 25 chultan riches and 25 omuan treasures
ravenloft 50 barovian coins
There are at least 2 that have inherent caps on being farmed...Icewind dale you can only get 3 tears and 3 gold from the dailies per day. Underdark you have a weekly cap on demonic ichor. So those two you can't farm.
You really can't farm sharandar or dread ring either as the currency amounts listed would take quite a while to get. Tyranny Of Dragons to me is in the same vein. Not really worth time spent.
Now I do think harder content should be more rewarding somewhat. Just not as rewarding as 50 voninblod / 1K RAD would be.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
As for running IWD quests to turn in those currencies for rAD, I won't be doing that, either. My guild needs Frozen Treasures and I would much rather spend those currencies generating vouchers than generating rAD. I really don't care to run IWD, Sharandar, or DR quests and tend to do them only enough to get the weekly done and also do the relevant Support quest from the SH once per week per character. Any currencies I get from those zones get used to make vouchers for the guild. If I could make vouchers for Treasures of Tyranny, then I'd do more WoD in order to do that. I can't, though, and I really don't enjoy those quests, either.
Vorinblood in particular feels very bot-farmable, which makes me worry.
Basically, here's my stance: there are the things that are hard, and there are the things that are boring.
There can be hard boring things. There can be easy non-boring things. A player who wishes to optimize their RAD acquisition will move towards easy means of doing so. Therefore, when possible, it's best to avoid making the easiest things the most boring.
Vorinblood farming for RAD basically turns into a chore, the way the current professions system is-it's mindlessly repetitive and involves little interaction but if you don't do it it feels like leaving money on the table. Other campaign currencies are gated behind quests, which limits how many you can run and involves a bit more dynamic element, so I'd focus on those.
the more ways people can hit that cap, the more time we can spend doing content we actually feel like doing or helping other people/guild.
It's not very heroic.
I mean, if we were REALLY going to go down the "100k AD do it your way whatever I don't care" route, what they should do is create an in-game Forgotten Realms trivia quiz that you get RAD by answering lore questions on a daily basis.
...
So, I originally proposed that as a ridiculous idea, but in retrospect, that actually would serve a lot of purposes: if you gave players an incentive to care about Forgotten Realms lore, not only do you get them more invested in the game itself, but also in the D&D Forgotten Realms IP, which I imagine WotC would be happy with as it increases their brand penetration.
And I hope I am wrong here - but if all those alternative ways of earning ADs gona be more affective then doing a dungeons (and so far it looks that way) a lot of players will limit their dungeon activity witch are already not rewarding.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac