1) No i-frames. Other classes have "dodge" which gives them immunity frames to dodge things like Shocking Execution. GWF doesnt have this (neither does SW) but instead gets "more DR" when sprinting. Well, Sprint isnt as "proactive" as you would hope in that it takes about .5 sec for the effect to even kick in, where as you can dodge with (what seems like) a much more forgiving window - allowing you to fully mitigate any damage during that i-frame. Without the ability to "dodge" big bursts of damage reliably... This is why GWFs are usually either overpowered OR underpowered depending on the "META" of the module...
- To fix this, I believe they should take an ability like "Punishing Charge" and give that to GWFs on Shift so it provides i-frames.
2) Reactive class mechanic. What I mean is Unstoppable. Unstoppable is really only obtained in PVP by taking damage. Yes, Destroyer capstone gives you the ability to gain determ by dealing damage but in order to deal damage you must first be in unstoppable to build stacks (ill get to this point in a bit). So initially the only way to get Unstoppable is to take a bunch of damage. We have no preemptive reliable mechanic to avoid damage. (this ties into problem #1 with the I-frames). Also, along these lines, I believe determination gain is based on % of HP lost so having higher and higher "damage resist" actually HURTS your determination gain believe it or not... So there is no "synergy" with using things like Sprint to mitigate damage to gain determination to use unstoppable.
- I honestly think that they should give the ability to gain determination off dealing damage to ALL GWFs. I might even remove the "damage dealing" aspect of this and merely make it so at wills provide a fixed % of determination (maybe like 5% per hit) and encounters provide a bigger burst of determination per use (like 20%). Just as an example - not fixed on those %s... But this provides a GWF a more reliably way to gain determination that isnt based on damage (ever try hitting a DC in AS and never gaining determination?) So its a fixed % earned based on using abilities.
- You could also include our new "shift" (punishing charge) in the camp of gaining like 20% determination per use.. So you can use Punishing Charge to both avoid damage AND build determination to "chain" it with unstoppable.
3) Stacks. GWF are too "stack" reliant and IMO its what has ruined this class. GWF has two major sources for its high damage. - Destroyer's Purpose (capstone) - Destroyer (tactic) paired with Focused Destroyer (feat).
Destroyer's Purpose - FIRST requires you to be in unstoppable AND THEN attack 20x. Now its not as bad as it seems and its easy to keep up (kinda) because stacks last 25 seconds, however its not something you can easily build without (again) taking damage to get unstoppable. (This provides 50% more damage)
Destroyer (tactic) + F.D.(feat). - This is also another HUGE part of GWFs damage and its the biggest issue right now. You get a 25% chance on hit to proc a stack of Destroyer that lasts ~4 seconds. So you have to CONSTANTLY be attacking to keep these up. At "max" stacks it will give you something ~ 42-46% more damage (I forget exact math).
So, without these, a GWF will deal like HALF his damage... With these, he will deal "good" damage. So the big issue here is that in PUG games, people facetank GWFs and GWFs have an easy time keeping all these stacks up and people go "WTF MAN, GWF OP!" But against GOOD players that use their i-frames and dodge GWFs and DONT let them build stacks, GWFs hit like a wet noodle and are worthless.
- To fix this, I would love to see a rework on the "stack" system. I would look at changing Destroyer's purpose stacks to something like 10 stacks at 5% each, keep the 25 seconds. - I would then re-work focused destroyer so that it has 100% chance to proc off ANY hit but does NOT increase damage per stack. Also these should last 5-6 seconds (match Weapon Master stacks duration). So this would be a net NERF to max damage. Rather than 46%ish more damage, it would only give ~36% more damage but have 100% chance to gain a stack and stacks would last more.
Those are the 3 MAIN issues with the class. NOW with the ARP changes coming to LIVE... We have a 4th issue though
4) GWF is very "Damage Resistance" reliant. ALL GWFs defensive tools are to provide "damage resistance" to the class. - countless scars - Sprint - Unstoppable ALL provide damage resist.
Well up until today, that has been fine as those are good tools in mitigating damage. However now with the removal of ARP Resistance, players can easily stack 100%+ Resistance Ignored which means ALLLLL those tools are worthless in PVP.
So now, thats issue #4 and the final "NAIL" in the coffin for GWF IMO......
I Dont know why you suggest the tooltip that already exists. MOD 6 was the change? if someone can correct me when was. When you deal damage while Unstoppable, you gain a stack of Destroyer's Purpose (max 10). Each stack of Destroyer's Purpose increases your damage by 5%. Destroyer's Purpose lasts 25 seconds.
what i hate the must about gwf is that i constantly have to mark ppl and use daggers ,sometimes mark glitches. it dont know if its visual or a real glitch.but i seem to do way less damage when i dont see the red mark altho i marked them seven times.
@guerillaface#5288 prides himself on being a 100% F2P player. His gear levels and everything are reflected by this. Thanks to the near back to back 2x RPs we've had recently his put in some work and his stats are doing better, but still on the low end at least last time I saw him in IWP the stats looked better.
His build from what I've seen is modeled after another PS4 GWF that builds for tankiness and not for DMG. We have very few good GWFs on PS. We still have a lot to learn from our PC and Xbox cousins, but we're slowly getting there.
GWF is the most gear depending class, your stats you posted are low. So your itemlevel must be rather low too. Hence your GWF performance is low.
It's just gear you missing to enjoy the class.
stats atm are 14100 gs + comp power 31k power (heal mount) + ring brutality 6.3 crit 6.1 pen 4,6 recovery deflect 3k shadowclad + bravery 6.2 lifesteal + lifesteal ring 1400 incmoming healing 173k hp
al heal insignias lifesteal and hp
and the artifacts you are using are........??
oh and your hit points are low as hampster too therefore you get less synergy form mount insignia healing and other abilities that are based on your hitpoint health pool ..temp hitpoints (the yellow stuff on the health bar ) from class abilities comes to mind as well as boons and items that do flat damage based on max % of health
GWF is the most gear depending class, your stats you posted are low. So your itemlevel must be rather low too. Hence your GWF performance is low.
It's just gear you missing to enjoy the class.
stats atm are 14100 gs + comp power 31k power (heal mount) + ring brutality 6.3 crit 6.1 pen 4,6 recovery deflect 3k shadowclad + bravery 6.2 lifesteal + lifesteal ring 1400 incmoming healing 173k hp
al heal insignias lifesteal and hp
and the artifacts you are using are........??
oh and your hit points are low as hampster too therefore you get less synergy form mount insignia healing and other abilities that are based on your hitpoint health pool ..temp hitpoints (the yellow stuff on the health bar ) from class abilities comes to mind as well as boons and items that do flat damage based on max % of health
artifacts sigil of gwf and dc myth and orcus and eye of the giant. legendary
i can easy get 20k hp more with like the 50k hp armors.but im using historian relligga. but no luck at all farming it.
Post edited by guerillaface#5288 on
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I was actually thinking along the lines of around ~ 230k hitpoints with full guild food buffs/ caprese .. some pallyies / tanks are at around 250k-300k
@guerillaface#5288 prides himself on being a 100% F2P player. His gear levels and everything are reflected by this. Thanks to the near back to back 2x RPs we've had recently his put in some work and his stats are doing better, but still on the low end at least last time I saw him in IWP the stats looked better.
His build from what I've seen is modeled after another PS4 GWF that builds for tankiness and not for DMG. We have very few good GWFs on PS. We still have a lot to learn from our PC and Xbox cousins, but we're slowly getting there.
I was actually thinking along the lines of around ~ 230k hitpoints with full guild food buffs/ caprese .. some pallyies / tanks are at around 250k-300k
but wont my lifesteal drop the more i focus on hp? plus the radiants are pretty expensive ,i have 3 R11 the rest is R10 darks if i just get the psion shroud i will have 193k hp already.
220k hp or higher and 25% lifesteal is the way to go versus combats in my opinion.
Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
> @guerillaface#5288 said: > 220k hp or higher and 25% lifesteal is the way to go versus combats in my opinion. > > beside gf etc i dont see those much ,but ill take ur word for it ofc. some gwf that beat me only even have 130k lol,but tons of lifesteal
Those same GWFs that beat you with 130k HP drop to combats and GFs in seconds. Don't listen to PS players about builds, we are all bad even our best players are bad compared to Xbox and PC. You need 230k HP buffed minimum, and anyone that tells you otherwise isn't worth listening to.
Most of those PS players that people think are good build for IWP, they need companions and every other trick they can find to kill people (the one GWF I'm sure you're talking about runs 3 MCII rings with 9 radiant 12s on his augment, on top of his actives). Often the mouthiest people in IWP drop the fastest in Dom because they aren't built for it.
TL;DR: Get more HP, stop listening to IWP bums, PS players are all bad take the advice you get here from PC ans Xbone players.
Same for SW. As you already may know, stacking defense and deflect is useless against piercing and burst damage. Both ignores deflect, piercing ignores deflect, defense and tenacity. Piercing shouldn't be able to ignore tenacity tho but you know cryptic devs.. they care less.
Your gwf build should be like this. Stack Hp as much as you can. Stack lifesteal, 20% is enough for a gwf. Stack power, defense and arp and movement.
Try to get 4.3k cuz item level matters in pvp.
beside that sw heal as fck,and can dodge and are long ranged. l think im pretty much all of those things already. there is only 4 gwf that killl me atm,considering the amount of ppl that use a gwf i dunno if thats a good thing
Comments
@guerillaface#5288 prides himself on being a 100% F2P player. His gear levels and everything are reflected by this. Thanks to the near back to back 2x RPs we've had recently his put in some work and his stats are doing better, but still on the low end at least last time I saw him in IWP the stats looked better.
His build from what I've seen is modeled after another PS4 GWF that builds for tankiness and not for DMG. We have very few good GWFs on PS. We still have a lot to learn from our PC and Xbox cousins, but we're slowly getting there.
-Dandello
14100 gs + comp
power 31k power (heal mount) + ring brutality
6.3 crit
6.1 pen 76%
4,6 recovery
deflect 3k shadowclad
6.2 lifesteal 19.5% + lifesteal ring
1400 incmoming healing
173k hp
al heal insignias lifesteal and hp
maybe ill switch from orcus to valhalla set next 2x
oh and your hit points are low as hampster too therefore you get less synergy form mount insignia healing and other abilities that are based on your hitpoint health pool ..temp hitpoints (the yellow stuff on the health bar ) from class abilities comes to mind as well as boons and items that do flat damage based on max % of health
and orcus and eye of the giant. legendary
i can easy get 20k hp more with like the 50k hp armors.but im using historian relligga.
but no luck at all farming it.
if i just get the psion shroud i will have 193k hp already.
> 220k hp or higher and 25% lifesteal is the way to go versus combats in my opinion.
>
> beside gf etc i dont see those much ,but ill take ur word for it ofc. some gwf that beat me only even have 130k lol,but tons of lifesteal
Those same GWFs that beat you with 130k HP drop to combats and GFs in seconds. Don't listen to PS players about builds, we are all bad even our best players are bad compared to Xbox and PC. You need 230k HP buffed minimum, and anyone that tells you otherwise isn't worth listening to.
Most of those PS players that people think are good build for IWP, they need companions and every other trick they can find to kill people (the one GWF I'm sure you're talking about runs 3 MCII rings with 9 radiant 12s on his augment, on top of his actives). Often the mouthiest people in IWP drop the fastest in Dom because they aren't built for it.
TL;DR: Get more HP, stop listening to IWP bums, PS players are all bad take the advice you get here from PC ans Xbone players.
im seeing a drop in tenacity and hp.
Dead🔪l think im pretty much all of those things already.
there is only 4 gwf that killl me atm,considering the amount of ppl that use a gwf i dunno if thats a good thing