lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
Please, don't bring DLC's to NW! If the Cryptic/Perfectworld really need a way to "monetize", they could use the same system of SWTOR, you pay a monthly subscription, with a lot of benefits [extra xp gain, xp boost, exclusive itens, in-game currency for every month of subscription, and much more] just like VIP works now, but with MANY more benefits but paid with real money, not in-game corrency [ie, SWTOR uses "cartel coins" for in-game currency, while NW uses Zen].
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
The system is set up to make it unlikely if not impossible to sell ad for substantially more zen than you bought it for. Yes you can put 40 hours a week into grinding gear that you put into the ah to make ad which can then be transfered into zen but the $ value of each of those hours is a couple of dollars per hour at best. In other words, your better off getting a part time job at $7.00 an hour and spending your pay on zen that you transfer into ad for gear. That is a far more efficient use of your time.
Neverwinter isn't really a grind based game though. It's more about taking advantage of the AH, events, bonus AD and leadership. Take the winter event; having around 15 toons lets you go almost infinite with gifts and spend all day farming gift parties. A 50 gift gift party takes around 5-10 minutes and will usually net you around 200k+ AD because of lesser bonding runestones. Doing gift parties and getting the daily gifts netted me around 12 million AD because I was too lazy to really do more than a couple hours a day and didn't play every day during the event.
My leadership army takes around 25 minutes to reset tasks a day and nets me around 4+ million AD per 2x RP event.
If I camped the AH and looked for stuff to flip I could easily increase that.
Then when I do bother grinding I make around 200k AD a day doing dungeons/skirmishes for about an hour on three toons which I geared with AD from events/leadership.
So once you've gotten to the point where you can take advantage of this sort of stuff you're getting enough AD from a fairly normal amount of play time so it just doesn't make sense to spend actual money on AD.
The whole thing is a goldmine for exploits and gold sellers. THE most efficient system is a player setting up an entire account that is nothing but a ton of bots. So about two days of ILLEGAL and BAD work to get thousands of hours worth of grinding done automatically. And if you can't be bothered with that, there's always the gold sellers who do exactly what I pointed out.
A small leadership army takes around 20 minutes a day to reset tasks. You really don't need a bot.
The system is set up to make it unlikely if not impossible to sell ad for substantially more zen than you bought it for. Yes you can put 40 hours a week into grinding gear that you put into the ah to make ad which can then be transfered into zen but the $ value of each of those hours is a couple of dollars per hour at best. In other words, your better off getting a part time job at $7.00 an hour and spending your pay on zen that you transfer into ad for gear. That is a far more efficient use of your time.
Neverwinter isn't really a grind based game though. It's more about taking advantage of the AH, events, bonus AD and leadership. Take the winter event; having around 15 toons lets you go almost infinite with gifts and spend all day farming gift parties. A 50 gift gift party takes around 5-10 minutes and will usually net you around 200k+ AD because of lesser bonding runestones. Doing gift parties and getting the daily gifts netted me around 12 million AD because I was too lazy to really do more than a couple hours a day and didn't play every day during the event.
My leadership army takes around 25 minutes to reset tasks a day and nets me around 4+ million AD per 2x RP event.
If I camped the AH and looked for stuff to flip I could easily increase that.
Then when I do bother grinding I make around 200k AD a day doing dungeons/skirmishes for about an hour on three toons which I geared with AD from events/leadership.
So once you've gotten to the point where you can take advantage of this sort of stuff you're getting enough AD from a fairly normal amount of play time so it just doesn't make sense to spend actual money on AD.
The whole thing is a goldmine for exploits and gold sellers. THE most efficient system is a player setting up an entire account that is nothing but a ton of bots. So about two days of ILLEGAL and BAD work to get thousands of hours worth of grinding done automatically. And if you can't be bothered with that, there's always the gold sellers who do exactly what I pointed out.
A small leadership army takes around 20 minutes a day to reset tasks. You really don't need a bot.
Maybe I am wrong, I will have to double-check, but isn't all RP stuff gained from leadership bound to the character or account? So how are you making 4Mil AD on Leadership?
Maybe I am wrong, I will have to double-check, but isn't all RP stuff gained from leadership bound to the character or account? So how are you making 4Mil AD on Leadership?
You are incorrect. From Leadership is not bound. From things like Wanderer's Fortune, enchantment bonuses and such is bound to Acct.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,154Arc User
The bags are BtC. The contents are unbound.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
You're just trying to attack me personally, i maybe dont present things the best way but i never go personally on people, just a game politics.
You should do the same with others no matter you agree or not...
i'm absolutely not forced to spend a single dollar, i never saif that.
You come from Pc, you had all the time for grinding your way and make means to generate ad ect...
I said i was on PS4, the game have less than a year. We got many mods at the same time, totally different experience than yours on PC.
A few weeks after release, you could already see 3k and just a little few weeks more, 4ks.
We as dps struggle to to play NSVA or MSVA or FBI because we are DPS.
It makes sense when you start a mmo to create a dps toon that's what 90% of player do, you don't imagine at first that you 'll need a dc or tank that bad to access end game.
Many of us didnt see it coming, it's a real problem on PS4.
I spent so much time to restore my relics weapons just to find out that i will never be able to upgrade them because i'm not dc or tank... I 've been spaming everyday for weeks and i could only play 4 runs of Nsva..
My guild like many lacks end game ready characters and dcs/tanks too.
Dcs and tank have already no interest or little in playing Nsva... Or they ask you to pay them in lanolin for runing this content.
What do you think will happen when mod11 wil hit consoles this month ? We'll have even less dcs and tanks willing to help us because the new stuff will be apealing for them.
The solution ? Stop crying and make a tank or Dc, it make sense.
By the time i'm able to make a toon ready for Nsva will be mod15
So the only other solution is to spend the amount the amount of cash i spoke about wich of course i'll never do...
That's what bring my post in the first place...
I talked about skyforge because they have a system without trinity, you have a single character with trees of skills, so it's very easy to switch from dc to tank or healadin or dps and it cost you NOTHING.
But it's ok, keep thinking i'm a spoiled brat whos toy is broken...
Once again your post just oozes irony. You end off arguing that you're not acting like a spoiled brat when you spend most of your post complaining that it's not easy to get the very best weapon in the game. I don't know if you've played MMO's before - though, some of the things you're saying about what you didn't see coming makes it sound like you haven't - but it's a genre that has a long history of making the best equipment prohibitively hard to get. Frankly, even for DPS, this game makes it relatively easy to get best in slot in every spot you can name compared to others I've had the pleasure/displeasure of sinking years of my life into.. Yet, you're acting like getting this weapon is just something that should be happening right now and that it's unfair that you don't get to have it.
Well, luckily for you, there is a solution coming down the pipeline and us PC players have already helped work out the kinks for you! Unfortunately you're already complaining about it. That solution is mod 11. You want the very best weapon in the game and you want it to be easy - well, that's not happening. If you want that, you're gong to have to work your HAMSTER off for a long time and make some very good decisions along the way. But, Cryptic to the rescue! They're released multiple sets of weapons in mod 11 that are not only competitive with the Relic weapons, coming in at only *slightly* less powerful, but there is also a very clear and measured process to get those weapons. So basically, for people like you who chose undesirable classes because everyone and their dog wanted to be the big chart topping DPS, there is a clear solution to your issue of having powerful weapons and you won't even need to group to do it.
And there's more! The stronghold weapons are about to get a big boost too to the point where they're going to be arguably better than the relic weapons. That's TWO options you have coming to you as alternatives to the weapons you're having so much trouble getting.
So, you're saying you're not acting like a spoiled brat when you're really complaining not that there aren't plenty of toys to play with, but that you can't play with this very particular toy. Let that sink in - you don't want one of several other toys that are as good or almost as good as the relic weapon - you need THAT toy, specifically, to be happy. Because you can't get it, the game is unfair. Again, let that sink in when you're trying to tell me how you sound right now.
Now, I'll give you a tip. I've been playing MMO's with the same personal friend since the original Everquest and, this time around, I rolled a cleric and he rolled a ranger. Rangers are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for being a desirable class for group content and, let me tell you, they're a pain in the HAMSTER to buff and heal. Of course, him being a ranger, he's run into exactly the type of wall you're describing. A few months ago when we hit the Edemo gear score he really wanted to get his hands on a set of twisted weapons - and couldn't get into a group. No-one wanted him. So, we worked out an arrangement... As a friend of his I would start getting into those groups on the condition that they took him too and we got a lot of twisted ichor for him that way. When I wasn't around, he started the groups rather than trying to join and was very successful in this because most people are too lazy to start the groups. He also started to friend solid DCs and GFs that he grouped with and asked them to join him for edemo runs. He even bribed them with items from his lockboxes when necessary. The end result was a low gearscore character that was one of the least desirable classes ended up getting his twisted. And you know what? Prior to mod 11 coming out, he was doing the same thing towards his relic weapons at the bottom end of the allowable gearscore quite successfully - though now, he just grabbed his aboleth weapons and is back to a more general grind. You know what he did NOT do? Come into the forum and complain that it was "unfair" that he couldn't get his relic weapons, the very best weapons in the game, without some serious work. There are ways to make this happen. You're not a desirable class - so make friends with desirable classes, outside of your guild, and ask them to join you and even bribe them if you have to. There are avenues to take that it sounds like you're not taking to get these weapons - but instead you're in here telling me that it's unfair and that you don't sound like a spoiled brat who is just upset that he can't play with his toys.
On a side note, you likely learned a lesson about MMO's with this. You say this:
"It makes sense when you start a mmo to create a dps toon that's what 90% of player do, you don't imagine at first that you 'll need a dc or tank that bad to access end game"
This flies in the face of nearly two decades of MMO norms. Support classes and tanks are almost always in demand whereas every knucklehead wants to be the hero topping the DPS chart leaning to an end result of very low supply of the support/tank classes with a very high demand, and just the opposite for DPS classes. In any somewhat orthodox MMO the end game requires a balanced party to beat end game content - and that means you need those classes no-one wanted to roll because they liked seeing big numbers pop up when they click on the bad guy. When you pick your next game keep this in mind. DPS is all good and fine and totally necessary, but since everyone wants to play DPS you end up with a big disparity in the number of support/tank classes VS DPS classes, and that means there is going to be low demand for what your character brings to the table.
@urabask How many hours does it take to set up a leadership army? I mean all of it up until you only have to spend twenty minutes a day on it? And is this just one character? Or is the idea to level multiple "ad farm" characters to 70, so they can feed your main character?
Even pre mod six, I couldn't be bothered spending all of the time it took to build a leadership army. I enjoy a game that has challenging content to play and which provides desirable gear as a reward for beating that content. Professions is exactly like a Facebook game. Text based. Why would I download an mmo to play a text based mini game?
@aftershafter Why would anyone play a game to work? The whole purpose of gaming is to have fun. Not work! It amazes that the mmorpg industry has done such an amazing job at managing customer expectations that they have people playing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> content and even arguing for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> content. What is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> content? <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> content is WORK. It is not fun and I am amazed people are so well herded by these companies, that the company will call tedious work a "game", and people go right along with it, happily eating up the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> content and spending their leisure time, working.
@urabask How many hours does it take to set up a leadership army? I mean all of it up until you only have to spend twenty minutes a day on it? And is this just one character? Or is the idea to level multiple "ad farm" characters to 70, so they can feed your main character?
Even pre mod six, I couldn't be bothered spending all of the time it took to build a leadership army. I enjoy a game that has challenging content to play and which provides desirable gear as a reward for beating that content. Professions is exactly like a Facebook game. Text based. Why would I download an mmo to play a text based mini game?
Twenty minutes a day for about three months to get your army to level 25. Pretty much every other MMO has some sort of tedious task that you need to do to progress at a reasonable rate anyways. I don't really see the point in trying to pretend that this is somehow unique to Neverwinter.
They use mechanics like this to get players to log in more often because they know that they can't keep players in game with just challeging and rewarding content. Everyone can pretend that's true but at the end of the day it's the tedious HAMSTER in between dungeons that keeps players logging in.
@aftershafter Why would anyone play a game to work? The whole purpose of gaming is to have fun. Not work! It amazes that the mmorpg industry has done such an amazing job at managing customer expectations that they have people playing HAMSTER content and even arguing for HAMSTER content. What is HAMSTER content? HAMSTER content is WORK. It is not fun and I am amazed people are so well herded by these companies, that the company will call tedious work a "game", and people go right along with it, happily eating up the HAMSTER content and spending their leisure time, working.
Apparently they deleted my first comment to the fellow in question which VERY clearly said "At the point where you stop enjoying it, move on - there are other fish in the sea. I play this game because I enjoy the combat system, the group dynamics, and just running the content. When this changes, I stop."
I am not arguing for HAMSTER content. Your position is baseless. At the point where you no longer enjoy it, I agree 100% - this game isn't for you. Frankly, I have fun every day that I play and on days that I don't, I don't play. So please, stop with this "We have people arguing for bad content!" thing. It is poppycock. The fact that a game like Minecraft can exist makes the whole "Hamster content is work!" thing utterly meaningless - some "work" is fun. Sim City is "work", Civilization is "work", Minecraft is "work", Neverwinter is "work" - and all are fun games for a lot of people. If you find a game's content to be "work" that isn't fun, the game likely isn't for you. Lord knows I've felt that way about some popular games... My solution was to not play them and pick one that I liked.
@urabask, NWO has more tedious content than any game I have ever played. You don't just grind for gear. You grind for a bewildering array of different kinds of hamster to level up your gear. You grind to level up the enchantments that enchant your gear. You grind to level up gear for your companions, and to empower their gear. You grind to increase your mounts power. You grind to gain artifacts and then you grind to level up your artifacts. Grind grind grind. TEDIOUS.
Look at the player population right before EE dropped with artifact gear and the whole new world of GRIND GRIND GRIND. Look at the preview shard forum right before EE dropped. Everyone was like "That is horrible grind, we will quit if this is what you make this game...". EE dropped complete with the new GRIND GRIND GRIND system and the player base said " SEEYA", and over half the players left the game.
NWO continues to bleed players. They are just milking the hamster out of anyone left till there aren't enough to keep the servers on then its time to unplug. The day when you go to log on and can't connect and check the forum and see everyone having the same problem. A few days later there is some blurb on mmominds about how PWE just decided to shut <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> down.
All games eventually come to an end, but I'd hate to look back after on my experience of a game after the servers go dark and have to accept that I spent hundreds of hours of my life doing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that I really didn't enjoy doing just because I thought, "Well all MMOs make you grind...".
@aftershafter I feel you. I agree. I will stop crapping on the enjoyment of folks here who have fun doing what I consider tedious. To each their own. This whole thread is me expressing my deep dissatisfaction with a game I used to truly love. Time to move on.
One last thing I want to say. NWO has action combat second to none, amazing graphics, and the last few group content releases are actually FUN. This means that NWO has the potential to be a game for casual players that sets the bar. The focus on the grind is what kills that though.
As a long time player who has seriously considered returning and spending my money in this mmo, though, it is just a no. I won't grind as much as needed to get into end game pve (IL requirements will go through the roof with mod 11), or to play PvP (all lvl 60 and up is "end game PvP". What I WILL do is keep my wallet in my pocket and just play for an hour here or there, while spending most of my gaming money and time elsewhere.
@urabask How many hours does it take to set up a leadership army? I mean all of it up until you only have to spend twenty minutes a day on it? And is this just one character? Or is the idea to level multiple "ad farm" characters to 70, so they can feed your main character?
Even pre mod six, I couldn't be bothered spending all of the time it took to build a leadership army. I enjoy a game that has challenging content to play and which provides desirable gear as a reward for beating that content. Professions is exactly like a Facebook game. Text based. Why would I download an mmo to play a text based mini game?
It really isn't that hard to set up a small leadership army (and by "small" I mean 10 or fewer characters). You don't need bots to do it. If you already have several characters that you pray on in order to get the celestial coin boxes, then it is almost zero additional work to reset the leadership professions on them in addition to the praying. This is time that was already going to be spent swapping between characters so there is very little in opportunity cost. To manage the leadership profession OPTIMALLY, with zero downtime on completed tasks, then yes, you either need to be logged in 24/7 or use bots. But that isn't even necessary.
I will agree that the inventory management aspect of the game is pretty awful. The part that I hate the most is having to save and keep track of so many items. It would be nice if there was a more unified reputation & currency system for completing all of the tasks that one has to do to upgrade a character.
Using ESO as a comparative I won't even start on elder scrolls infinite point system in which day 1 players can never be caught up to by new players and each month the disparity gets greater and greater.. But let me back up .. The main issue I see with NWO is the fact it is not alt friendly we are on mod 11 can you imagine a new player wanting to create a dps a tank and a healer class then having to grind thru all the boons and armor and gear sets for all three new characters .., We are talking years of work ! Dlc content works for games like DC universe online in which nothing you can buy can really help but you can also switch your class at anytime with a token .also on ESO your accumulated points are good on any character which means the grind isn't as bAd. In never winter this is not the issue. You must spend over a month on each campaign on each character. Without a fast route to level a new alt I don't think Dlc would work. Also the pvp system needs mega fixing and I know it would draw a much bigger player base as most of NWO is pve players there is an untapped pvp market out there that go elsewhere because pvp is broken I think loadouts will help but without being able to switch enchants not as much as it could I suggested long ago enchants could be attached to the player so when switching to pvp gear you don't need 24 new rank 12s or spending an hour and 80 gold to manually change them or maybe pvp only enchants available through glory tokens that only work in pvp gear. The effort it takes to go into full on pvp mode is way too much ATM..not to mention the system itself and class balancing needs an overhaul separate from pve. Trying to balance both without code changes has not and will not work
@chemjeff I will research all of this. I think about a leadership army and suddenly think about a full on professions army. Then suddenly I am messing around a pve campaign out of boredom and suddenly then am in a guild doing epic dungeons. Ahhhh this game.
If I can clear 250,000,000 AD a month through professions, 20 minutes a day, I'm down with it. That's about what it takes to stay 'leet here and keep on the end game pve stuff while begging the mmo gods to fix NWO PvP.
@mousebreaker85#4641 I am definitely going to give ESO a try even though the infinite point system is a turnoff.
You spoke honestly in your post. Lots of good info. I really think the answer to NWO PvP is a fresh start pvp-centric server. Kind of a blend of archages fresh start server and ESO's cyrodiil.
The idea is all characters would have to be new, no transferring anything from characters on other servers, and the pve content would be streamlined, with far less pve grinding and more of an emphasis on group play (dungeons). The PvP formats would be the same as normal, but every map from level 11 on would be open world PvP.
@chemjeff I will research all of this. I think about a leadership army and suddenly think about a full on professions army. Then suddenly I am messing around a pve campaign out of boredom and suddenly then am in a guild doing epic dungeons. Ahhhh this game.
If I can clear 250,000,000 AD a month through professions, 20 minutes a day, I'm down with it. That's about what it takes to stay 'leet here and keep on the end game pve stuff while begging the mmo gods to fix NWO PvP.
I don't claim you can make 250 million AD per month with 20 minutes of work per day. I don't know for certain, I really doubt the AD figure is that high with only 10 leadership characters. But what it will likely do is save you from having to buy RP for your main(s), and then you can sell the excess. Or you can sell it all if you wish. So it saves me from having to spend AD to rank up my characters.
@chemjeff OK, that makes sense. I tossed out that number because it seems on the realistic high end to keep oneself bis without having to grind.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,154Arc User
Pretty much once you hit BiS it is only a matter of grind when new content drops if the newer gear supplants the old.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
@greywynd I found out the hard way when mod6 came out that PWE won't hesitate to make current BIS gear entirely obsolete. This is why NWO lost more than half its player population when mod 6 dropped.
Look at the upcoming changes to weapon enchants. Vorpal is going to lose about half of it's value. Since mod five, there has been added artifact weapons and gear, tons of companion and mount power ups, a slew of new boons.
Coming back with characters that were near BIS for mod 5 and trying to even get them PvP suitable is a TON of work and/or money.
@greywynd I found out the hard way when mod6 came out that PWE won't hesitate to make current BIS gear entirely obsolete. This is why NWO lost more than half its player population when mod 6 dropped.
Look at the upcoming changes to weapon enchants. Vorpal is going to lose about half of it's value. Since mod five, there has been added artifact weapons and gear, tons of companion and mount power ups, a slew of new boons.
Coming back with characters that were near BIS for mod 5 and trying to even get them PvP suitable is a TON of work and/or money.
The weapon enchant changes already hit. There's a minority of DPS players that are going to bother switching from vorpal/dread because to really see a significant advantage you'd be switching weapon enchants like six times per dungeon.
Well this is still going so what the heck. We have still seen a lot of interest in getting the Foundry up and going again so. Why dont we ask for Cryptic to decide how much it would cost to make that happen. Then they can start a go fund me page and when we reach that total tada.
Well, you have both identified the problem and solution.
Problem is, devs are spending little time make little content, but stretching it out to a point of absurdity. Everything is a increased grind, and you have to ever run farther and more back and forth for quests. Just to get two more quests and run back and forth the same route again...and again....and again.... This is the bad kind of grinding in a game.
Another problem is, after all that grinding the rewards have been significantly gone down since earlier mods. Especially the dungeon rewards. This is another bad. You lose paying people who don't find the game reward and exciting anymore.
So, devs are cutting their own throat by desperately trying to force people to use more ZEN by reducing what they gain in-game. That is the short version of the problem.
Now, DLCs will not fix that issue, since you will lose most of the people who are left, who can't afford to pay for games. The rest have already left to pay and play more fun games that is less grindy.
Keep the game free, but bring back the excitement in doing dungeons and quests.
@danievdw The game is so grindy because at a point you are supposed to just get sick of grinding and buy the stuff you were grinding for.
I don't blame the devs. I am CERTAIN PWE is pretty hardcore about every line of code written needs to be profit maximized. In other words, when they plan a new mod they plan on spending x amount of hours on development hours, and making x amount from the mod its self. The point being to maximize the profit of every hour of development. The devs do the best they can in those conditions to make a fun game. They are, after all, artists, not accounts. None the less, PWE's huge mistake is that they want to make their games profitable, not fun. Which puts the devs in a really rough spot. Games that are not fun lose players.
I am sure more than one dev is thinking, "we know this content sucks, we would love to make a really fun game, but I got bills to pay". At a certain point one realizes that regardless of hipster or " creative spirit" status, at some point one is just as much a one dimensional corporate cog as any bean counter wearing a stiff, empty suit. That is where a person either sees their PWE career as basic resume fodder and find better work asap, or they really buy into profit maximization and "grow up", accepting the death of their soul as just a rite of passage in the 2017 world.
Comments
My leadership army takes around 25 minutes to reset tasks a day and nets me around 4+ million AD per 2x RP event.
If I camped the AH and looked for stuff to flip I could easily increase that.
Then when I do bother grinding I make around 200k AD a day doing dungeons/skirmishes for about an hour on three toons which I geared with AD from events/leadership.
So once you've gotten to the point where you can take advantage of this sort of stuff you're getting enough AD from a fairly normal amount of play time so it just doesn't make sense to spend actual money on AD. A small leadership army takes around 20 minutes a day to reset tasks. You really don't need a bot.
Once again your post just oozes irony. You end off arguing that you're not acting like a spoiled brat when you spend most of your post complaining that it's not easy to get the very best weapon in the game. I don't know if you've played MMO's before - though, some of the things you're saying about what you didn't see coming makes it sound like you haven't - but it's a genre that has a long history of making the best equipment prohibitively hard to get. Frankly, even for DPS, this game makes it relatively easy to get best in slot in every spot you can name compared to others I've had the pleasure/displeasure of sinking years of my life into.. Yet, you're acting like getting this weapon is just something that should be happening right now and that it's unfair that you don't get to have it.
Well, luckily for you, there is a solution coming down the pipeline and us PC players have already helped work out the kinks for you! Unfortunately you're already complaining about it. That solution is mod 11. You want the very best weapon in the game and you want it to be easy - well, that's not happening. If you want that, you're gong to have to work your HAMSTER off for a long time and make some very good decisions along the way. But, Cryptic to the rescue! They're released multiple sets of weapons in mod 11 that are not only competitive with the Relic weapons, coming in at only *slightly* less powerful, but there is also a very clear and measured process to get those weapons. So basically, for people like you who chose undesirable classes because everyone and their dog wanted to be the big chart topping DPS, there is a clear solution to your issue of having powerful weapons and you won't even need to group to do it.
And there's more! The stronghold weapons are about to get a big boost too to the point where they're going to be arguably better than the relic weapons. That's TWO options you have coming to you as alternatives to the weapons you're having so much trouble getting.
So, you're saying you're not acting like a spoiled brat when you're really complaining not that there aren't plenty of toys to play with, but that you can't play with this very particular toy. Let that sink in - you don't want one of several other toys that are as good or almost as good as the relic weapon - you need THAT toy, specifically, to be happy. Because you can't get it, the game is unfair. Again, let that sink in when you're trying to tell me how you sound right now.
Now, I'll give you a tip. I've been playing MMO's with the same personal friend since the original Everquest and, this time around, I rolled a cleric and he rolled a ranger. Rangers are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for being a desirable class for group content and, let me tell you, they're a pain in the HAMSTER to buff and heal. Of course, him being a ranger, he's run into exactly the type of wall you're describing. A few months ago when we hit the Edemo gear score he really wanted to get his hands on a set of twisted weapons - and couldn't get into a group. No-one wanted him. So, we worked out an arrangement... As a friend of his I would start getting into those groups on the condition that they took him too and we got a lot of twisted ichor for him that way. When I wasn't around, he started the groups rather than trying to join and was very successful in this because most people are too lazy to start the groups. He also started to friend solid DCs and GFs that he grouped with and asked them to join him for edemo runs. He even bribed them with items from his lockboxes when necessary. The end result was a low gearscore character that was one of the least desirable classes ended up getting his twisted. And you know what? Prior to mod 11 coming out, he was doing the same thing towards his relic weapons at the bottom end of the allowable gearscore quite successfully - though now, he just grabbed his aboleth weapons and is back to a more general grind. You know what he did NOT do? Come into the forum and complain that it was "unfair" that he couldn't get his relic weapons, the very best weapons in the game, without some serious work. There are ways to make this happen. You're not a desirable class - so make friends with desirable classes, outside of your guild, and ask them to join you and even bribe them if you have to. There are avenues to take that it sounds like you're not taking to get these weapons - but instead you're in here telling me that it's unfair and that you don't sound like a spoiled brat who is just upset that he can't play with his toys.
On a side note, you likely learned a lesson about MMO's with this. You say this:
"It makes sense when you start a mmo to create a dps toon that's what 90% of player do, you don't imagine at first that you 'll need a dc or tank that bad to access end game"
This flies in the face of nearly two decades of MMO norms. Support classes and tanks are almost always in demand whereas every knucklehead wants to be the hero topping the DPS chart leaning to an end result of very low supply of the support/tank classes with a very high demand, and just the opposite for DPS classes. In any somewhat orthodox MMO the end game requires a balanced party to beat end game content - and that means you need those classes no-one wanted to roll because they liked seeing big numbers pop up when they click on the bad guy. When you pick your next game keep this in mind. DPS is all good and fine and totally necessary, but since everyone wants to play DPS you end up with a big disparity in the number of support/tank classes VS DPS classes, and that means there is going to be low demand for what your character brings to the table.
Even pre mod six, I couldn't be bothered spending all of the time it took to build a leadership army. I enjoy a game that has challenging content to play and which provides desirable gear as a reward for beating that content. Professions is exactly like a Facebook game. Text based. Why would I download an mmo to play a text based mini game?
They use mechanics like this to get players to log in more often because they know that they can't keep players in game with just challeging and rewarding content. Everyone can pretend that's true but at the end of the day it's the tedious HAMSTER in between dungeons that keeps players logging in.
I am not arguing for HAMSTER content. Your position is baseless. At the point where you no longer enjoy it, I agree 100% - this game isn't for you. Frankly, I have fun every day that I play and on days that I don't, I don't play. So please, stop with this "We have people arguing for bad content!" thing. It is poppycock. The fact that a game like Minecraft can exist makes the whole "Hamster content is work!" thing utterly meaningless - some "work" is fun. Sim City is "work", Civilization is "work", Minecraft is "work", Neverwinter is "work" - and all are fun games for a lot of people. If you find a game's content to be "work" that isn't fun, the game likely isn't for you. Lord knows I've felt that way about some popular games... My solution was to not play them and pick one that I liked.
Look at the player population right before EE dropped with artifact gear and the whole new world of GRIND GRIND GRIND. Look at the preview shard forum right before EE dropped. Everyone was like "That is horrible grind, we will quit if this is what you make this game...". EE dropped complete with the new GRIND GRIND GRIND system and the player base said " SEEYA", and over half the players left the game.
NWO continues to bleed players. They are just milking the hamster out of anyone left till there aren't enough to keep the servers on then its time to unplug. The day when you go to log on and can't connect and check the forum and see everyone having the same problem. A few days later there is some blurb on mmominds about how PWE just decided to shut <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> down.
All games eventually come to an end, but I'd hate to look back after on my experience of a game after the servers go dark and have to accept that I spent hundreds of hours of my life doing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that I really didn't enjoy doing just because I thought, "Well all MMOs make you grind...".
Enjoy! :-D
As a long time player who has seriously considered returning and spending my money in this mmo, though, it is just a no. I won't grind as much as needed to get into end game pve (IL requirements will go through the roof with mod 11), or to play PvP (all lvl 60 and up is "end game PvP". What I WILL do is keep my wallet in my pocket and just play for an hour here or there, while spending most of my gaming money and time elsewhere.
It really isn't that hard to set up a small leadership army (and by "small" I mean 10 or fewer characters). You don't need bots to do it. If you already have several characters that you pray on in order to get the celestial coin boxes, then it is almost zero additional work to reset the leadership professions on them in addition to the praying. This is time that was already going to be spent swapping between characters so there is very little in opportunity cost. To manage the leadership profession OPTIMALLY, with zero downtime on completed tasks, then yes, you either need to be logged in 24/7 or use bots. But that isn't even necessary.
But let me back up ..
The main issue I see with NWO is the fact it is not alt friendly we are on mod 11 can you imagine a new player wanting to create a dps a tank and a healer class then having to grind thru all the boons and armor and gear sets for all three new characters ..,
We are talking years of work !
Dlc content works for games like DC universe online in which nothing you can buy can really help but you can also switch your class at anytime with a token .also on ESO your accumulated points are good on any character which means the grind isn't as bAd.
In never winter this is not the issue.
You must spend over a month on each campaign on each character.
Without a fast route to level a new alt I don't think Dlc would work.
Also the pvp system needs mega fixing and I know it would draw a much bigger player base as most of NWO is pve players there is an untapped pvp market out there that go elsewhere because pvp is broken
I think loadouts will help but without being able to switch enchants not as much as it could
I suggested long ago enchants could be attached to the player so when switching to pvp gear you don't need 24 new rank 12s or spending an hour and 80 gold to manually change them or maybe pvp only enchants available through glory tokens that only work in pvp gear.
The effort it takes to go into full on pvp mode is way too much ATM..not to mention the system itself and class balancing needs an overhaul separate from pve. Trying to balance both without code changes has not and will not work
If I can clear 250,000,000 AD a month through professions, 20 minutes a day, I'm down with it. That's about what it takes to stay 'leet here and keep on the end game pve stuff while begging the mmo gods to fix NWO PvP.
You spoke honestly in your post. Lots of good info. I really think the answer to NWO PvP is a fresh start pvp-centric server. Kind of a blend of archages fresh start server and ESO's cyrodiil.
The idea is all characters would have to be new, no transferring anything from characters on other servers, and the pve content would be streamlined, with far less pve grinding and more of an emphasis on group play (dungeons). The PvP formats would be the same as normal, but every map from level 11 on would be open world PvP.
Look at the upcoming changes to weapon enchants. Vorpal is going to lose about half of it's value. Since mod five, there has been added artifact weapons and gear, tons of companion and mount power ups, a slew of new boons.
Coming back with characters that were near BIS for mod 5 and trying to even get them PvP suitable is a TON of work and/or money.
Problem is, devs are spending little time make little content, but stretching it out to a point of absurdity. Everything is a increased grind, and you have to ever run farther and more back and forth for quests. Just to get two more quests and run back and forth the same route again...and again....and again.... This is the bad kind of grinding in a game.
Another problem is, after all that grinding the rewards have been significantly gone down since earlier mods. Especially the dungeon rewards. This is another bad. You lose paying people who don't find the game reward and exciting anymore.
So, devs are cutting their own throat by desperately trying to force people to use more ZEN by reducing what they gain in-game. That is the short version of the problem.
Now, DLCs will not fix that issue, since you will lose most of the people who are left, who can't afford to pay for games. The rest have already left to pay and play more fun games that is less grindy.
Keep the game free, but bring back the excitement in doing dungeons and quests.
I don't blame the devs. I am CERTAIN PWE is pretty hardcore about every line of code written needs to be profit maximized. In other words, when they plan a new mod they plan on spending x amount of hours on development hours, and making x amount from the mod its self. The point being to maximize the profit of every hour of development. The devs do the best they can in those conditions to make a fun game. They are, after all, artists, not accounts. None the less, PWE's huge mistake is that they want to make their games profitable, not fun. Which puts the devs in a really rough spot. Games that are not fun lose players.
I am sure more than one dev is thinking, "we know this content sucks, we would love to make a really fun game, but I got bills to pay". At a certain point one realizes that regardless of hipster or " creative spirit" status, at some point one is just as much a one dimensional corporate cog as any bean counter wearing a stiff, empty suit. That is where a person either sees their PWE career as basic resume fodder and find better work asap, or they really buy into profit maximization and "grow up", accepting the death of their soul as just a rite of passage in the 2017 world.