torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
you could easily port the best foundry content into a whole mod for consoles. the foundry campaign. zzzzz.
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
I think what we need is a poll. Do players want new content, or existing content fixed/restored.
I have played NW since mod 5, and EVE since 2007. In EVE, the game is so old and huge it become overrun with bugs and exploits. So they dropped their biannual expansion cycle and took a few years to focus on fixing/upgrading what they had. Now the game is stronger and better than ever. It's not fair to compare NW to a giant like EVE, but the concept is the same. You can do small content expansion with large scale reworks and fixes. I don't think PWE would allow it to happen. And I know Mimicking is already looking ahead to the mod 12 and 13, I know the plans are already in motion and can't be stopped. But I think most players would rather keep the gear they have and get better systems into the game. This would also allow time for lower item level players time to catch up with the BIS players.
You can even make them feel like expansions by adding themes to the fixes: -Return of GG PVP/PVE with major PVP fixes -Player Housing and Foundry Fixes -Return of Epic Dungeons and Professions Rework
But you get the idea. Foundry and dungeons are most important to me, but PVP is obviously the majority. For the record I like mod 11, love the new skirmish and daily system. I like the direction the game is going, I'm amazed that about a dozen people in studio have managed to keep the game going. But eventually you have to fix things before it's to late.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
edited March 2017
was a total failure of state of the game stream, basicly new content isnt new campaign, new content or end game content is 3.5k/4k il dungeons/skirmish/raids(trials) something challenging to make end content player break their heads to find out what to do on higher challenging stuff, dev team that didnt put step on the ground to make the resources coming to this game was a disspointment hearing it from him, theres lots of ideas out there to do, but since resources were sent away from game nothing good might be coming in near future.
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
edited March 2017
In terms of PVP they should making a neverwinter world dominion map to make alliances fight weekly for lets say Ice Wind Pass/Dwarven Valley/Dread Ring/Sharandar/Bryn Shander/Well of Dragons/Sea of Moving Ice/Lonelywood/Black Lake District/ River District/Neverdeath Graveyard/Tower District/The Chasm/Ebons Down Helms Hold/Icespire Peak/Ebons Down/etc. area, and the fight is used on sh pvp map, thats a good pvp content, @mimicking#6533@nitocris83 maybe a future mod only pvp oriented, lots of progress and ideas to be made
I would rather start with giving all players access to a small but functional Stronghold by reducing the resources needed to build one up. For example, the first rank of a Stronghold structure should only require resources a Stronghold can produce at that point, at the second rank you have to toss in some Gold, and the third rank will need some AD to get the building done. May be even change the costs for rank 4 and 5 a bit too, but the major benefits will still be for huge guilds/alliances only in the end.
Next points on that list could be: + adjusting the AD prices for upgrading companions + loyal companion equipment as regular drops + bringing back those manuals (with reasonable prices...) to upgrade mounts
Anyway, just tossing in some ideas to level the playing-field across the whole game at least a bit.
I disagree.
First, by allowing easier access to these, you further trivialize the PVE content of this game. Its already not considered "difficult" because you can so easily out-power the content. In doing this, all you do it make all the content easier.
Second, You still have to face the fact that the "allowable stats" players have access to has a directly correlation to the "power gap" available. What does this mean? It means that the more customization and choice you give players, the more they can "choose wrong". Even if everyone went into PVP with full BIS gear for free, there will still be a TON of players that dont know how to build for PVP. NOTE: I am not talking about skill in playing PVP. Neverwinter has TONS of power creep since day 1. There are too many choices, too many stats that are opposites in terms of "ideal" for PVE and PVP. A good example of this is armor pen. In PVE you dont need much. In PVP, because players can get more than 80% DR, ARP becomes VERY good. Another example is lifesteal. In PVE you dont need it because your always with healers. In PVP self-healing is critical. So ALL the items/stats you have access to, completely change based on PVE and PVP.
What the game needs is to break down the "barriers" to PVP. Simply "bringing everyone up to BIS" levels does not do this and it only makes the rest of the game worse.
Third, This "solution" only addresses potentially the ITEM gap, and as I wrote above in point 2, I dont think it does a good job of that. But the OTHER side of this coin is how "fun" is PVP? With the current level of power creep that is in PVP... I can safely say "PVP has seen better days". Even if your idea worked and everyone knew the best builds and best items and best stats to use in PVP, its just not as FUN as it used to be. Why? Self healing. There are too many sources of self healing, too many sources of stats where there isnt much real "choice" anymore. Players can have it all. They can be high burst, tanky, and self heal. Things like Water Weapons, Insignias, Wheel Artifacts, Even lifesteal all create WAY too much sustainability.
Maybe you were not here when tenacity came around and they nerfed Regen. Well, Regen used to be the ONLY source of self healing in the game, in combat. It was so good, players would over stack it to self heal. They created tenacity, and then nerfed it so it healed MUCH less. PVP was fine because of that. Very little self healing so players COULD kill eachother over time.
Today, its just boring. You hit someone for 80k, and they heal it back in seconds. Its not a "slow whittle down of eachothers HP" its basically 99% of the fight with everyone at MAX HP and every once in a blue moon you kill. This may not be everyone's experience, but this is what "Full BIS PVP" is like. Its boring. Its not fun.
So.... Not only does this idea NOT really solve the "gear gap" (point 2). It makes PVE easier (point 1) and also makes PVP boring (point 3).
I dont think this idea is the best way to go. No, I think the BEST way is to strip OUT all those things in PVP. removing the boons, mount bonuses, insignias, drains, etc. So that the average player doesnt need to have his campaign boons done, or have a mount with 4k stats or be apart of a SH lvl 20 to be able to compete in PVP. THIS is the solution for PVP, not to "bring everyone up" but to remove all the power creep that has ruined PVP and ruined the "competitiveness" in the game.
EDIT: Bonus point I forgot to mention. Balancing. Balancing PVE and PVP has forever been a NIGHTMARE. They come out with something cool for PVE and it is game breaking for PVP. They nerf something because XYZ class is too strong in PVP and PVE players go nuts saying PVP ruined their game... REMOVING all this stuff means they can come up with all the cool companions, mount bonuses, boons, etc that they want and not have to worry about the impact on balance in PVP.
ayroux said: IT DOESNT WORK SO NOBODY WANTS TO USE IT ATM
That is exactly what is going on atm. I would love to run Foundry's except they are missing new content and give no rewards including SKILL NODES which are currently useless (including green mount insignias) that might pop up in one occasionally. Let us not forget that we have been given so much grinding in each mod since MOD 6 who has time? Not to mention most of us know it's broken.
What you Dev's forget/or didn't know, is that when the game launched it was one of the biggest draws to the game!!!
"Since mod 6"? Grinding reached it zenith in mod3, and it wasn't even the "fighting" kind of grinding since half the time you had to stand around and do nothing while waiting for a dragon to spawn - either that or spam zone chat and hope someone takes pity on you and invites you to their instance. Pray it doesn't happen again.
What we have these days is boring repetition.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
You could almost see Foss checking his watch and thinking "how much more time/energy do we have to waste on this dead stick?"
I hope they will sell the WotC license and NWO to another gamehouse who are interested in a Foundry and PvP focus. That's about the only chance I see for an enthusiastic development team.
If not, Foundry is dead, PVP festers and PvE dies a slow death of attrition over the next 1.5 mods.
Edit PvE/pvp
I think this is the most realistic assessment of the current situation.
Unfortunately fixing PvP would require a dedicated developer on it, that can study the classes and apply balances and tweaks etc. Making new maps is the easy part. And it's likely they cannot hire another dev just to do this.
Same with foundry, it's such a mess you would have to redo the whole search engine, update features. I'm adamant that adding rewards would not give interest to foundry, but more tools would allow PvP style maps and I don't just mean combat ones, Things like tower defense and horde/defense modes similar to the custom maps in starcraft/warcraft. They offered no rewards but people played them avidly, because it was fun. That is what foundry needs, this goal is alot more reasonable than the PvP one, as they can just focus one module on it where the PvP would require constant attention.
Unfortunately fixing PvP would require a dedicated developer on it, that can study the classes and apply balances and tweaks etc. Making new maps is the easy part. And it's likely they cannot hire another dev just to do this.
This goal is alot more reasonable than the PvP one, as they can just focus one module on it where the PvP would require constant attention.
100% disagree. All PVP needs atm is for them to strip out all the HAMSTER that has caused PVP to suffer. They have TWO options.
1) dis-allow all non-item level things in PVP. This means no boons, no mount bonuses, no overloads, insignias, etc. This means your character loads in and its basically JUST his gear that impacts him in PVP.
2) Do what WOW did, and create a "base" of stats for each class this can easily be done. Heck I can do this on the PTR right now, it gives you a lvl 70, and tons of free gear. Find a "sweet spot" for each class for PVP. Now when a player loads into PVP ALL his stats default to those default stats. The only exception is for every 100 points of Itemlevel OVER say 3,000 you get an extra 1% of those stats. This means if the "default" power was 8,000 for a class (TR) and a BIS TR went into PVP with 4,300 Item level. He would get 13% more of every stat. This means he would have 9,040 Power instead of 8k.
I would agree that balancing is a non-issue right now. You first and foremost need players in the game mode. For that to happen you need to severely decrease the (gear) requirements to be competitive. Whether that's "standardization" or flat out scratching a big chunk of the progression (mounts, overloads etc.) is up to them.
I would even take it one step further and let players earn PVP Enchantments for currency or the PVP campaign. These Enchantments are Rank 12 / Transcendent, but only grant their effects in PVP.
Folks, this Dev Team simply cannot keep up with fixes and fulfill their obligations to expand the game. Which is why I am resigned to the fate that PvP will never get the attention it deserves.
It's a combination of resource allocation (PWE) and their contract with WoTC. Would love to see that contract.
Again, what PVP needs has been listed several times. It wouldnt take that much time to copy/paste the SAME code they use to disable companions in domination, over to Boons, Mount Bonuses, etc as well.
Do this first, then PVP will be in a DRASTICALLY better state and they can let PVP ride for a while like that without changes. Mintor feedback from the player base and make small tweaks every month or so, Then when you have time, release a new PVP domination map and the NCL again. BOOM. PVP fixed.
First, there are more then enough players still in the middle of gearing up their characters, and there are also more then enough new players coming to NWO, and those players would actually benefit from my suggestions. And this is about reducing the grind to get something decent/usefull in game.
Second, players have invested time and money into all those options you want to cut out of the game now. Are you prepared to give them refunds out of your own pocket? I don't think so... So, it would be a much better idea, to come up with PvE/PvP modes for boons/companions/mounts etc. instead, like they allready have for enchantments. Not to mention, when you start with cutting away everything from PvP, you might end up at a point were you send players into battle only armed with a stick...
Third, i think the real reason, why some players are against my suggestion is, that they fear to lose their hold over all their "worker bees". Some of them might come to the conlusion, that all the drama/stress in a huge guild/alliance isn't worth it anymore, when you can get less (but still everything you actually need) on your own.
Anyway, i agree on making a clear cut between PvE and PvP, but i disagree on the methods you mentioned here.
First, there are more then enough players in the middle of gearing up their characters, and there are also more then enough new players coming to NWO, and those players would actually benefit from my suggestions. This is about reducing the grind to get something decent/usefull in game.
Second, players have invested time and money into all those options you want to cut out of the game now. Are you prepared to give them refunds out of your own pocket? I don't think so... So, it would be a much better idea, to come up with PvE/PvP modes for boons/companions/mounts instead, like they allready have for enchantments. Not to mention, when you start with cutting out any "extras" from PvP, you might reach a point, were you'll be sending players into battle only armed with a stick.
Third, i think the real reason, why some players are against my suggestion is, that they fear to lose their hold over all their "worker bees". Some of them might come to the conlusion, that all the drama/stress in a huge guild/alliance isn't worth it anymore, when you can get less (but still everything you actually need) on your own.
Anyway, i agree on making a clear cut between PvE and PvP, but i disagree on the methods you mentioned here.
First, on a duel arena. This may have been a valuable thing back in module 2 days. But not today. People ALREADY dont want to PVP because of gear imbalance. People WONT be using this feature very often and if anything - itll actually take AWAY from people actually playing domination. This personally feels like a step BACKWARDS not forwards. Whatever "map" you get approval to use from WOTC for this, I would take this, and RATHER than make a 1v1 duel arena. I would turn this into a 3v3 Death Match arena instead. This 3v3 deathmatch was already being worked on at ONE point (I played it on the PTR twice) and was a HUGE improvement. A new "duel" arena will do NOTHING for PVP and is a waste of time and resources.
Dueling makes us better players. I wrote a blog on it once. Seems to be gone now. It is absolutely needed. Dueling is not a new "map". it is a new 'dimension' (aspect) to the game. While more needs added, it is a good start as long as I can duel with whomever I want. If I am not in a guild or not in that guild there needs to be an option to allow me to join in, request to join or apply for temporary access. Make it different here - Neverwinter, the foundry allows me to tip. Add an option where I can compete for diamonds, how bad a$$ would that be? I've dueled for currency all the time across multiple platforms. I am not sure if it violated TOS. Though we talked about it in the forums and broadcast it loudly, cust serv never complained.. However, it was based on the honor system, many people never paid. It really was not a feature of the game. Making it a feature to me has more appeal. Anyhow the king (@mimicking#6533) is on the right track. Dueling requires understanding of all class mechanics, not just your own. It is not memorization of static boss movements or mechanics. PVP / dueling requires a different skillset if most things are equal. It is a new type of mobility & situational awareness. Thousands of duels day after day taught me to PVP. My option was to learn or die. Sure I could say, "this is fun, I don't mind dying". MOMs all over the world say it is not about winning, "Just have fun". "Panda" also says the same - BS they lied. Winning, it is funner.
We are gamers, being competitive is a natural part of that. We like to win on occasion. This is a step to allow people to practice, make it fun and allow someone to win (1v1). I do not dual box, that is a violation here. However, I've found the first magic number is 2.5k with 3 piece tenacity. Unless I am not paying attention or consistently being attacked by the same warrior, I no longer get 1 shot. If a rogue opens on me from behind well that is life. Sure there are still openers that melt me, but it is no longer an everyday thing. Personally, I still love getting one shot or stomped. It means that person is dedicated (spent money, practiced or spent a long time playing) - possibly all. Who cares how or why, they are a lot better, it is respectable.. Though they won't be in a few weeks/months from now, I should be at the next magic number 3.5. If more people PVPd at 2.5k level which is attainable for anyone. We could monopolize the time of the best 4k players allowing our team to cap if there was communication. We could keep an unskilled 4k player busy the whole match. Even if we don't scratch them, if a rogue stuck to them with courage & smoke bomb with me healing/buffing. Killing us both should happen but it is a time sink. Having played at very high rating in PVP I always enjoyed the 2v1. So I'd say most 4ks rather than go and cap, ignore us noobs (like they should). They would fall into this "trap" (time sink) allowing the other people on our team an opportunity to do something. As this is happening, I am always trying to move the fight a bit closer to the next node. This at times allowed me to ninja a node or wait for help then just run. There is no communication in pugs. So what I am talking about is rare. But it can and does happen. All it requires is 2.5k with some tenacity a PVE build (sorta) is ok. It needs more players. Giving people the ability to practice bringing in easy to get to locations for 1v1 duels at any level is where it starts.
"PVP / dueling requires a different skillset if most things are equal." The problem is they are not equal. There is no reason to mix 2.5k IL toons with 4k IL toons. That is not a fight there is any possibility of winning. Dueling is not going to change that.
The "Don't cry get better / gear up" argument is not going to help. It's how parts of the PVP community have always reasoned and let to the situation we have today. Within the current system, you do not get enough players into the game mode, period.
The "Don't cry get better / gear up" argument is not going to help. It's how parts of the PVP community have always reasoned and let to the situation we have today. Within the current system, you do not get enough players into the game mode, period.
LOL @darpa317 dude you dont know what you are talking about.
First, 1v1s can ALREADY BE DONE if you want. I have been doing 1v1s for YEARS in Ice Wind Pass and Dwarven Valley. You can ALREADY do it, we dont needs DEVS wasting time on something you can already do.
Second, I have been "best in slot" for YEARS. Every module. Dont tell me to "change myself" when I, and a ton other players who have been around this game for YEARS have already "changed ourselves". This is the problem with the game. The PVP scene is BAD right now and its what is causing players to quit.
@loboguild nailed it. The "stop crying and get gear" is what many people within the PVP community has said for years and its what lead to where we are today. The current PVP system we have now, is WHY we have such low population in PVP. People dont think its fun and there are too many barriers to entry for people to play it.
Cryptic needs to try and approach this one of two ways. 1) Get more people into the game to PVP. 2) Get more OF the current players in the game to PVP.
So you now have to ask. What is more reasonable? Likely #2. They cant really control #1.
So NOW you ask "Why arent current players PVPing?"
The answer: Gear Gap.
Its not fun for a mostly PVE player who MIGHT enjoy occasional PVP to que up and stand ZERO chance against a 4.3k Ilevel BIS player - with or without him being in a premade.
Anyways, point of all this: PVP is in a horrible spot and the only solution is to remove gear gap and make it so ANYONE can be competitive. The SAME RATIONALE they use when they "boost" a lvl 41 player up to 49 in PVP to remain "competitive". It tries to "level the playing field" so to speak.
You people do know that this guy basically just encouraged "dueling" while at that same time noting how stupid it is when a player tries to force you into a duel instead of capping/defending, all in the same post?
Stop feeding the attention hog.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
@ayroux "Another example is lifesteal. In PVE you dont need it because your always with healers." LS is very useful in pve because some player prefer buff/debuffer dc/op over full healer, healer are more usefull to help player with low il to get along strong content to him, pvp is simply dead in nw same thing over and over again i stooped liking it.
Folks, this Dev Team simply cannot keep up with fixes and fulfill their obligations to expand the game. Which is why I am resigned to the fate that PvP will never get the attention it deserves.
It's a combination of resource allocation (PWE) and their contract with WoTC. Would love to see that contract.
I agree with 1 exception.. the PVP campaign boons/bonus's. make this the only active with guild pvp boons. they need to re-vamp the boons anyways. Forcing people to pvp for conquorer shards is , my opinion, BS! why would a PVE guild want to pvp with people that live there 24/7 and spend hours in a que and lose for 10 conq shards a day? i say this is broken and HAMSTER over the people that really dont want to pvp at all.. and for those that like to pvp have at it. i pvp once a day for shards.. Only another 120 plus days to friggin go for rank 2 barracks... then god only knows how many years for rank 3... thanks devs nothing like forcing people into submitting when they dont want to huh..
rant ramble done.. But yeah use only pvp boons that SAY PVP BOONS and leave the rest alone. hell i dont even have a pvp boon and prolly nvr will.... how's a gf iv buff tank going to get 50 or 100 triple kills?? i can barely do damage to a pillow much less get a triple kill.. so no boons for me..
As far as that Contract... i think it's a classic well my MOM / DAD Told me i can't play with you! type thing...
"Winners don't whine & whiners don't win" (Google it, a book) -- Julia Cook
Until Winners get sick of how easy it is to win... Which causes mass exodus from NW because of the lack of competition, which further creates easier wins and lack of competition.
So the winners start to whine about the state of the game, HOPING the Devs will create a more level playing field, so there will be competition again.
"Your time would be better spent telling us how to work within the current system to make things better " - PTR PVP with no boons. That the only way to make it work in the current system.
The PROBLEM is, even if you got a community by and large to UNSPEC out of their boons and not use pots etc.. (something that would never happen) we have no way to ENFORCE those things. So if you are in a close match, someone can just put points into boons, activate a SH Boon, or pot up. There is no enforcement available.
Our guild has been forced to try and create this on the PTR, however its hard to get people who want to do this type of thing, since its not "official".
Sadly the only hope NW has is to look into leveling the playing field, via the DEVs, because without that, all that is happening is they are managing a crashing ship - something Cryptic likely knows with their time at STO. They are already working on their next game to boot.
Sadly there isnt a way to "work within the current system". All we can do is hope the DEVs make a change, otherwise RIP NW.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@ayroux : it's not only in PVP. Power creep is killing PVE too. This game needs a full gear reset again, across the board.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited March 2017
There is another reason why people don't pvp.
We have to grind so much in pve there is no time left to focus pvp, until we finish the pve part of the mod. Once pve boons weapons are gathered then we can pvp more.
Also the learn to play folKS have not made rhe pvp game aspects what they have become. Not everyone saying learn to play is a bis player. Some people just go into pvp without knowing how to attack when to attack and when not to attack. When to dodge, when to run, and to fight on nodes.
Mind you there are some other issues like guild boons that some players just don't have. I personally feel that anything you can't get solo play or from soloable campaigns should not be allowed in domination pvp. Let strogholds boons stay in pve and strongholds pvp map only.
The balance of powers kills pvp, or lack of balance there of.
There are some people that can't finish all the pve content before a new mod comes. These people are always playing catch up until they give up and quit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
IF PVP is best with no gear/boons/or basically anything that you can spend money or time on, it makes a very sorry play for FTP.
There is absolutely no reason to develop something like this. The only people that would spend a lot of time doing it are people who would have no need to buy or spend money anyway. What for, if you're all equal and all you want to do is PVP?
In other words, that kind of PVP is best for subscription games only.
Comments
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
I have played NW since mod 5, and EVE since 2007. In EVE, the game is so old and huge it become overrun with bugs and exploits. So they dropped their biannual expansion cycle and took a few years to focus on fixing/upgrading what they had. Now the game is stronger and better than ever. It's not fair to compare NW to a giant like EVE, but the concept is the same. You can do small content expansion with large scale reworks and fixes. I don't think PWE would allow it to happen. And I know Mimicking is already looking ahead to the mod 12 and 13, I know the plans are already in motion and can't be stopped. But I think most players would rather keep the gear they have and get better systems into the game. This would also allow time for lower item level players time to catch up with the BIS players.
You can even make them feel like expansions by adding themes to the fixes:
-Return of GG PVP/PVE with major PVP fixes
-Player Housing and Foundry Fixes
-Return of Epic Dungeons and Professions Rework
But you get the idea. Foundry and dungeons are most important to me, but PVP is obviously the majority. For the record I like mod 11, love the new skirmish and daily system. I like the direction the game is going, I'm amazed that about a dozen people in studio have managed to keep the game going. But eventually you have to fix things before it's to late.
@nitocris83 @mimicking#6533
@mimicking#6533 - something for you to chew on below about the state of PVP from another dinosaur like yourself
First, by allowing easier access to these, you further trivialize the PVE content of this game. Its already not considered "difficult" because you can so easily out-power the content. In doing this, all you do it make all the content easier.
Second, You still have to face the fact that the "allowable stats" players have access to has a directly correlation to the "power gap" available. What does this mean? It means that the more customization and choice you give players, the more they can "choose wrong". Even if everyone went into PVP with full BIS gear for free, there will still be a TON of players that dont know how to build for PVP. NOTE: I am not talking about skill in playing PVP. Neverwinter has TONS of power creep since day 1. There are too many choices, too many stats that are opposites in terms of "ideal" for PVE and PVP. A good example of this is armor pen. In PVE you dont need much. In PVP, because players can get more than 80% DR, ARP becomes VERY good. Another example is lifesteal. In PVE you dont need it because your always with healers. In PVP self-healing is critical. So ALL the items/stats you have access to, completely change based on PVE and PVP.
What the game needs is to break down the "barriers" to PVP. Simply "bringing everyone up to BIS" levels does not do this and it only makes the rest of the game worse.
Third, This "solution" only addresses potentially the ITEM gap, and as I wrote above in point 2, I dont think it does a good job of that. But the OTHER side of this coin is how "fun" is PVP? With the current level of power creep that is in PVP... I can safely say "PVP has seen better days". Even if your idea worked and everyone knew the best builds and best items and best stats to use in PVP, its just not as FUN as it used to be. Why? Self healing. There are too many sources of self healing, too many sources of stats where there isnt much real "choice" anymore. Players can have it all. They can be high burst, tanky, and self heal. Things like Water Weapons, Insignias, Wheel Artifacts, Even lifesteal all create WAY too much sustainability.
Maybe you were not here when tenacity came around and they nerfed Regen. Well, Regen used to be the ONLY source of self healing in the game, in combat. It was so good, players would over stack it to self heal. They created tenacity, and then nerfed it so it healed MUCH less. PVP was fine because of that. Very little self healing so players COULD kill eachother over time.
Today, its just boring. You hit someone for 80k, and they heal it back in seconds. Its not a "slow whittle down of eachothers HP" its basically 99% of the fight with everyone at MAX HP and every once in a blue moon you kill. This may not be everyone's experience, but this is what "Full BIS PVP" is like. Its boring. Its not fun.
So.... Not only does this idea NOT really solve the "gear gap" (point 2). It makes PVE easier (point 1) and also makes PVP boring (point 3).
I dont think this idea is the best way to go. No, I think the BEST way is to strip OUT all those things in PVP. removing the boons, mount bonuses, insignias, drains, etc. So that the average player doesnt need to have his campaign boons done, or have a mount with 4k stats or be apart of a SH lvl 20 to be able to compete in PVP. THIS is the solution for PVP, not to "bring everyone up" but to remove all the power creep that has ruined PVP and ruined the "competitiveness" in the game.
EDIT: Bonus point I forgot to mention. Balancing. Balancing PVE and PVP has forever been a NIGHTMARE. They come out with something cool for PVE and it is game breaking for PVP. They nerf something because XYZ class is too strong in PVP and PVE players go nuts saying PVP ruined their game... REMOVING all this stuff means they can come up with all the cool companions, mount bonuses, boons, etc that they want and not have to worry about the impact on balance in PVP.
That is exactly what is going on atm. I would love to run Foundry's except they are missing new content and give no rewards including SKILL NODES which are currently useless (including green mount insignias) that might pop up in one occasionally. Let us not forget that we have been given so much grinding in each mod since MOD 6 who has time? Not to mention most of us know it's broken.
What you Dev's forget/or didn't know, is that when the game launched it was one of the biggest draws to the game!!!
Grinding reached it zenith in mod3, and it wasn't even the "fighting" kind of grinding since half the time you had to stand around and do nothing while waiting for a dragon to spawn - either that or spam zone chat and hope someone takes pity on you and invites you to their instance.
Pray it doesn't happen again.
What we have these days is boring repetition.
Unfortunately fixing PvP would require a dedicated developer on it, that can study the classes and apply balances and tweaks etc. Making new maps is the easy part. And it's likely they cannot hire another dev just to do this.
Same with foundry, it's such a mess you would have to redo the whole search engine, update features. I'm adamant that adding rewards would not give interest to foundry, but more tools would allow PvP style maps and I don't just mean combat ones, Things like tower defense and horde/defense modes similar to the custom maps in starcraft/warcraft. They offered no rewards but people played them avidly, because it was fun. That is what foundry needs, this goal is alot more reasonable than the PvP one, as they can just focus one module on it where the PvP would require constant attention.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
1) dis-allow all non-item level things in PVP. This means no boons, no mount bonuses, no overloads, insignias, etc. This means your character loads in and its basically JUST his gear that impacts him in PVP.
2) Do what WOW did, and create a "base" of stats for each class this can easily be done. Heck I can do this on the PTR right now, it gives you a lvl 70, and tons of free gear. Find a "sweet spot" for each class for PVP. Now when a player loads into PVP ALL his stats default to those default stats. The only exception is for every 100 points of Itemlevel OVER say 3,000 you get an extra 1% of those stats. This means if the "default" power was 8,000 for a class (TR) and a BIS TR went into PVP with 4,300 Item level. He would get 13% more of every stat. This means he would have 9,040 Power instead of 8k.
I would even take it one step further and let players earn PVP Enchantments for currency or the PVP campaign. These Enchantments are Rank 12 / Transcendent, but only grant their effects in PVP.
Do this first, then PVP will be in a DRASTICALLY better state and they can let PVP ride for a while like that without changes. Mintor feedback from the player base and make small tweaks every month or so, Then when you have time, release a new PVP domination map and the NCL again. BOOM. PVP fixed.
And this is about reducing the grind to get something decent/usefull in game.
Second, players have invested time and money into all those options you want to cut out of the game now. Are you prepared to give them refunds out of your own pocket?
I don't think so...
So, it would be a much better idea, to come up with PvE/PvP modes for boons/companions/mounts etc. instead, like they allready have for enchantments.
Not to mention, when you start with cutting away everything from PvP, you might end up at a point were you send players into battle only armed with a stick...
Third, i think the real reason, why some players are against my suggestion is, that they fear to lose their hold over all their "worker bees". Some of them might come to the conlusion, that all the drama/stress in a huge guild/alliance isn't worth it anymore, when you can get less (but still everything you actually need) on your own.
Anyway, i agree on making a clear cut between PvE and PvP, but i disagree on the methods you mentioned here.
This is about reducing the grind to get something decent/usefull in game.
Second, players have invested time and money into all those options you want to cut out of the game now. Are you prepared to give them refunds out of your own pocket?
I don't think so...
So, it would be a much better idea, to come up with PvE/PvP modes for boons/companions/mounts instead, like they allready have for enchantments.
Not to mention, when you start with cutting out any "extras" from PvP, you might reach a point, were you'll be sending players into battle only armed with a stick.
Third, i think the real reason, why some players are against my suggestion is, that they fear to lose their hold over all their "worker bees". Some of them might come to the conlusion, that all the drama/stress in a huge guild/alliance isn't worth it anymore, when you can get less (but still everything you actually need) on your own.
Anyway, i agree on making a clear cut between PvE and PvP, but i disagree on the methods you mentioned here.
First, 1v1s can ALREADY BE DONE if you want. I have been doing 1v1s for YEARS in Ice Wind Pass and Dwarven Valley. You can ALREADY do it, we dont needs DEVS wasting time on something you can already do.
Second, I have been "best in slot" for YEARS. Every module. Dont tell me to "change myself" when I, and a ton other players who have been around this game for YEARS have already "changed ourselves". This is the problem with the game. The PVP scene is BAD right now and its what is causing players to quit.
@loboguild nailed it. The "stop crying and get gear" is what many people within the PVP community has said for years and its what lead to where we are today. The current PVP system we have now, is WHY we have such low population in PVP. People dont think its fun and there are too many barriers to entry for people to play it.
Cryptic needs to try and approach this one of two ways.
1) Get more people into the game to PVP.
2) Get more OF the current players in the game to PVP.
So you now have to ask. What is more reasonable? Likely #2. They cant really control #1.
So NOW you ask "Why arent current players PVPing?"
The answer: Gear Gap.
Its not fun for a mostly PVE player who MIGHT enjoy occasional PVP to que up and stand ZERO chance against a 4.3k Ilevel BIS player - with or without him being in a premade.
Anyways, point of all this: PVP is in a horrible spot and the only solution is to remove gear gap and make it so ANYONE can be competitive. The SAME RATIONALE they use when they "boost" a lvl 41 player up to 49 in PVP to remain "competitive". It tries to "level the playing field" so to speak.
Stop feeding the attention hog.
they need to re-vamp the boons anyways. Forcing people to pvp for conquorer shards is , my opinion, BS! why would a PVE guild want to pvp with people that live there 24/7 and spend hours in a que and lose for 10 conq shards a day? i say this is broken and HAMSTER over the people that really dont want to pvp at all.. and for those that like to pvp have at it. i pvp once a day for shards.. Only another 120 plus days to friggin go for rank 2 barracks... then god only knows how many years for rank 3... thanks devs nothing like forcing people into submitting when they dont want to huh..
rant ramble done.. But yeah use only pvp boons that SAY PVP BOONS and leave the rest alone. hell i dont even have a pvp boon and prolly nvr will.... how's a gf iv buff tank going to get 50 or 100 triple kills?? i can barely do damage to a pillow much less get a triple kill.. so no boons for me..
As far as that Contract... i think it's a classic well my MOM / DAD Told me i can't play with you! type thing...
So the winners start to whine about the state of the game, HOPING the Devs will create a more level playing field, so there will be competition again.
"Your time would be better spent telling us how to work within the current system to make things better " - PTR PVP with no boons. That the only way to make it work in the current system.
The PROBLEM is, even if you got a community by and large to UNSPEC out of their boons and not use pots etc.. (something that would never happen) we have no way to ENFORCE those things. So if you are in a close match, someone can just put points into boons, activate a SH Boon, or pot up. There is no enforcement available.
Our guild has been forced to try and create this on the PTR, however its hard to get people who want to do this type of thing, since its not "official".
Sadly the only hope NW has is to look into leveling the playing field, via the DEVs, because without that, all that is happening is they are managing a crashing ship - something Cryptic likely knows with their time at STO. They are already working on their next game to boot.
Sadly there isnt a way to "work within the current system". All we can do is hope the DEVs make a change, otherwise RIP NW.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
We have to grind so much in pve there is no time left to focus pvp, until we finish the pve part of the mod. Once pve boons weapons are gathered then we can pvp more.
Also the learn to play folKS have not made rhe pvp game aspects what they have become. Not everyone saying learn to play is a bis player. Some people just go into pvp without knowing how to attack when to attack and when not to attack. When to dodge, when to run, and to fight on nodes.
Mind you there are some other issues like guild boons that some players just don't have. I personally feel that anything you can't get solo play or from soloable campaigns should not be allowed in domination pvp. Let strogholds boons stay in pve and strongholds pvp map only.
The balance of powers kills pvp, or lack of balance there of.
There are some people that can't finish all the pve content before a new mod comes. These people are always playing catch up until they give up and quit.
There is absolutely no reason to develop something like this. The only people that would spend a lot of time doing it are people who would have no need to buy or spend money anyway. What for, if you're all equal and all you want to do is PVP?
In other words, that kind of PVP is best for subscription games only.