Developers need to chill out on what they think needs to be nerfed

artumbaga · February 2017

First of all, I understand that developers want a well balanced game. I understand that they want everyone's build be of equal to the other.

But at the same time they should also understand the investment a good player puts in the game.

We take time to understand the mechanics of a class. Each and every power, every feature, just to make sure everything the character has on compliments it. Be it a piece of equipment or a companion. Even an insignia piece.

Also, the game itself is a pay to win. Actually making those players spend more money to build their class and get the edge.

Now what happens when someone dedicated enough and spends enough time and money on a character that they love? They are bound to make a good build right? And when I say a good build I'm saying a dominant build. Better than most.

Now those are the chosen players.

And then there's also the nobodies. The people who want to make a difference but just plain couldn't. No matter how much time they spend or money they spend. Now those are the people who complain. People who say something is overpowered.

People whose builds can't compete or are just not in the league with the top dogs.

Just because their build on their class cannot compete with another class doesn't mean the other guy with the dominant build has to be nerfed.

That's stupid.

Do the developers ever think that maybe...... just maybe.. instead of nerfing the good build and making him trash just so that he's on the same level of trash with the other trash that is complaining...

Maybe just maybe... did they ever think of buffing the trash build and actually making him a better one?

They gotta understand that. You don't just trample on someone's build just because it's the more dominant one.

People actually spend thousands of money in this game for crying out loud. And here they are.. oh hey.. your build is too Over Powered or yoo STRONG. We're gonna trash you and make you HAMSTER again. Have a good day.

Wow.. developers really.. I'm sure there's a bunch of you that have great minds. You guys have a good game going. Choose your actions wisely and don't ruin it.

hadestemplar · February 2017

artumbaga said:
First of all, I understand that developers want a well balanced game. I understand that they want everyone's build be of equal to the other.

But at the same time they should also understand the investment a good player puts in the game.

We take time to understand the mechanics of a class. Each and every power, every feature, just to make sure everything the character has on compliments it. Be it a piece of equipment or a companion. Even an insignia piece.

Also, the game itself is a pay to win. Actually making those players spend more money to build their class and get the edge.

Now what happens when someone dedicated enough and spends enough time and money on a character that they love? They are bound to make a good build right? And when I say a good build I'm saying a dominant build. Better than most.

Now those are the chosen players.

And then there's also the nobodies. The people who want to make a difference but just plain couldn't. No matter how much time they spend or money they spend. Now those are the people who complain. People who say something is overpowered.

People whose builds can't compete or are just not in the league with the top dogs.

Just because their build on their class cannot compete with another class doesn't mean the other guy with the dominant build has to be nerfed.

That's stupid.

Do the developers ever think that maybe...... just maybe.. instead of nerfing the good build and making him trash just so that he's on the same level of trash with the other trash that is complaining...

Maybe just maybe... did they ever think of buffing the trash build and actually making him a better one?

They gotta understand that. You don't just trample on someone's build just because it's the more dominant one.

People actually spend thousands of money in this game for crying out loud. And here they are.. oh hey.. your build is too Over Powered or yoo STRONG. We're gonna trash you and make you HAMSTER again. Have a good day.

Wow.. developers really.. I'm sure there's a bunch of you that have great minds. You guys have a good game going. Choose your actions wisely and don't ruin it.

Equality is kinda intersting thing. And it's mostly depend of from which view point you look.
For example, TR went to epic dungeon and run in front of party, leaving tank, buff/heal and others behind. Got killed, and then forum full of complain that TR need extra buff. But if you look you see that TR where not ment to play like that.
TR gameplay is not same as GWF which bulldozing through dungeons. TR's role is get behind enemy, and hit in back. TR"s shine in single target elimination, so strong monsters is best thing for them.
Or CW want equality and deal same dmg as gwf, but they forgot that they do have lot of CC elements why GWF don't. Imagine CW with raw gwf dmg. Not only they control but dealing gazilion dmg, do it balance? Nop.

First need to reevaluate class role within group, how do he fight and only then think about which power buff or which adjust.

Players pick DC, try act as tank, faill = forum full of complains that DC need extra buff..
Glasscanon GWF jump in front of eDemo with poor gear, give middle finger to demogorgon, he kill GWF with 1 slap, and then same situation as with DC, lot of complains that GWF need buff..
heal/buff DC compete with gwf in term of dealt dmg, fail = complains of poor it's dmg capabilities. And ask either buff DC or nerf gwf..

So my friend, buffing/nerffing is depending on view point.. I even have quote to players> If >creature< between chair and keyboard is broken, then even overpowered class will not help him.

mistran · February 2017

usualy its also easier to nerf something then buff other things to be on par witth he thing you can just nerf. A dev explained it when tehy decided to "fix" lostmauth set

artumbaga · February 2017

That is the point. They need to chill out on nerf or buffs. I'm not saying they need to buff more. What I'm trying to say is they need to make sure all variables are in place and do various testing with testers. You are exactly right, how players tend to want equality or rather superiority that is why players also need to learn their own class and not just complain just because they can't do what the other class is actually for.

rickcase276 · February 2017

If they would just make powers do what their tooltips say they do, that would be a good start. And yes I am meaning Annointed Army, amongst others. It would fix a lot of the issues with things people think need nerfed etc.

artumbaga · February 2017

Lol funny thing is back when there was no cleric that was smart enough to use Annointed army's power to its best no one gave 1 HAMSTER about it. Now I see 2 or 3 guys in a guild that knows how the class works and all the pally heals are barking like crazy saying they made them useless. Haha I always thought pally heals were useless anyways.

beckylunatic · February 2017

artumbaga said:
Lol funny thing is back when there was no cleric that was smart enough to use Annointed army's power to its best no one gave 1 HAMSTER about it. Now I see 2 or 3 guys in a guild that knows how the class works and all the pally heals are barking like crazy saying they made them useless. Haha I always thought pally heals were useless anyways.

It wasn't "best" until relatively recently. When Into the Fray wasn't providing a flat bonus like now, synchronizing Hallowed Ground with a well-built Guardian Fighter was the most reliable way to boost a party's damage.

It's not that clerics weren't smart. The meta changed. People adapted.

btairborne · February 2017

artumbaga said:
Lol funny thing is back when there was no cleric that was smart enough to use Annointed army's power to its best no one gave 1 HAMSTER about it. Now I see 2 or 3 guys in a guild that knows how the class works and all the pally heals are barking like crazy saying they made them useless. Haha I always thought pally heals were useless anyways.

Your ignorance is amusing considering. Healadins are hardly useless and have great buffs. DCs just have AA that is so much better than any other healer buff.

Unknown · February 2017

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tripsofthrymr · February 2017

artumbaga said:
First of all, I understand that developers want a well balanced game. I understand that they want everyone's build be of equal to the other.

They gotta understand that. You don't just trample on someone's build just because it's the more dominant one.

I'm less concerned about build equality than about diversity. In end-game PVE most builds focus on either DPS or Buff/Debuff.

The role of the controller is irrelevant because anything worth controlling can't be.

The role of the healer is small (in some cases non-existent) because of tremendous self-heals.

The choice of ranged DPS vs. melee DPS is only relevant if there's too much lag to tank Orcus and you need to burn him down from afar (not sure how you get to be a Demon Prince if you just stand there and take it while being ranged DPSed...)

A tank is only needed for their intended role of controlling agro and absorbing damage in a tiny fraction of content.

I'm more concerned about the developers investing time to restore the value of coordinated team play (by which I don't mean "spam all your buffs/debuffs").

The early history of the game saw huge pendulum swings with individual powers and entire classes. I have seen a measured, analytical approach in the current balancing pass. Some items and a few powers were nerfed to the ground, but they were clearly not WAI. If an item jumps from 1 million in the AH to 6.5 million because players suddenly discovers a game-breaking use for it, there's your red flag that your huge investment might yield only temporary benefit.

btairborne · February 2017

tripsofthrymr said:

artumbaga said:
First of all, I understand that developers want a well balanced game. I understand that they want everyone's build be of equal to the other.

They gotta understand that. You don't just trample on someone's build just because it's the more dominant one.

I'm less concerned about build equality than about diversity. In end-game PVE most builds focus on either DPS or Buff/Debuff.

The role of the controller is irrelevant because anything worth controlling can't be.

The role of the healer is small (in some cases non-existent) because of tremendous self-heals.

The choice of ranged DPS vs. melee DPS is only relevant if there's too much lag to tank Orcus and you need to burn him down from afar (not sure how you get to be a Demon Prince if you just stand there and take it while being ranged DPSed...)

A tank is only needed for their intended role of controlling agro and absorbing damage in a tiny fraction of content.

I'm more concerned about the developers investing time to restore the value of coordinated team play (by which I don't mean "spam all your buffs/debuffs").

The early history of the game saw huge pendulum swings with individual powers and entire classes. I have seen a measured, analytical approach in the current balancing pass. Some items and a few powers were nerfed to the ground, but they were clearly not WAI. If an item jumps from 1 million in the AH to 6.5 million because players suddenly discovers a game-breaking use for it, there's your red flag that your huge investment might yield only temporary benefit.

My experience shows me the value in grouping of controlling, healing AND tanking to the point your post sounds ridiculous to me. It's really a matter of who you run with that determines your game-view.

artumbaga · February 2017

Lol I still have no use of healadins. XD I dunno, I guess people just haven't noticed how OP a warlock can be in terms of tanking and healing? If you're good enough and see it how I saw it, you'll also think healadins are very close to garbage. Some people need a proof some people don't it just depends. It just depends on the team you're rolling with. We like to see healadins as dead weight that's why we stay away from them. They can't tank and their buffs aren't as good as a cleric and their heals aren't needed as much by a tank that actually knows the concept of tanking. Damage mitigation always comes together with health regeneration. Lots of tanks in this game don't get that for some reason. I mean.. a lot.. it is ridiculous. So really, why bother bringing a healadin? Lolololololololol

jonkoca · February 2017

Diversity is only a tactic that works when the enviroment itself is variable and unpredictable. This is not the case in neverwinter, where the enviroment is fixed, and known, and 'solutions' to survival and prosperity clearly apparant.

In such an enviroment, increasing homogeneity and specialization is the natural, and best, response.

archangelzorak01 · February 2017

I feel that across the board in Neverwinter there are 2 things most apparent. A) Enemies are far too weak and, B ) Buffs are far too strong.

Now I feel that I need to jump in in defense of Healadins now. (as a note my healadin is just an alt created out of necessity back in Mod 8. cuz dragonflight)

The issue isnt that healadins are bad, because they're not. The problem is in that there is no content in this game that allows a healadin to shine. The amount of raw and consistent healing provided by a healadin is unsurpassed. They do buff, they increase their party's outgoing damage, decrease their party's incoming damage and they reduce their party's cooldowns. DC's do all of these things as well, the problem is a DC has stronger buffs and significant debuffs which healadins lack. The balance is supposed to be that healadins make up for that lack of buff'age by putting out more consistent healing, but as I said, there is no content in the game that really requires that much healing.

Now we come to the real problem, The players. I've seen at least 3 people quit the game entirely over the past 6 months or so simply because they played a paladin and they didnt want to be tanks. People would ask in chat for a healer, the healadin would raise their hand, the person looking for a healer would say, "Sorry mate, we want a DC". This can only happen so many times before someone just stops logging in. The fault here is partly on the developers for lack of diverse content where all classes and builds are viable but most of the blame (almost entirely) falls on the players and the fact that so many of them are a$$hats.

So if you are forming a group and you need a healer, and you purposefully avoid one that is perfectly capable of keeping your sorry a$$ alive in a dungeon simply because you want bigger buffs (or you want the 'i win' button that is AA) then shame on you.

Shame.

As far as the original topic though, don't put all your eggs in one basket. This is an MMO and this is Cryptic; we all need to be prepared for anything to change at any time that may require us to change any or everything about our characters in order to be optimal. Its just part of the deal.

hawkeyel · April 2017

artumbaga said:
Lol I still have no use of healadins. XD I dunno, I guess people just haven't noticed how OP a warlock can be in terms of tanking and healing? If you're good enough and see it how I saw it, you'll also think healadins are very close to garbage. Some people need a proof some people don't it just depends. It just depends on the team you're rolling with. We like to see healadins as dead weight that's why we stay away from them. They can't tank and their buffs aren't as good as a cleric and their heals aren't needed as much by a tank that actually knows the concept of tanking. Damage mitigation always comes together with health regeneration. Lots of tanks in this game don't get that for some reason. I mean.. a lot.. it is ridiculous. So really, why bother bringing a healadin? Lolololololololol

As a tank I can help you some on your confusion on regeneration. Regeneration only works outside of combat. As a Tank I am almost never in that state because on dugeon runs we rush from one fight to the next . This is why few tanks bother with regeration any longer rather they just stack hit points and call it a day.

Unknown · April 2017

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Unknown · April 2017

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Unknown · April 2017

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hadestemplar · April 2017

tntslayer1 said:

I guess you don't play a cw

Played CW until SW where introduced.. Have friend who live not far from me, so time to time we switch places.. He play with my SW I play with his CW.
And funny is that lot of players don't see other than dps powers casting from CW side..
For example how many players use Arcane singularity in these days? Most players instantly scream >Noob<. Because they all use oprresion force for dps only. Now from other side. Cast arcane singularity> icy terran> Seal of time> Shard of the Endless Avalanche and in middle of these powers cast storm pillar if u are Spellstorm or Scorching Burst if Master of flames.

Now from side dps with this combo is not top. But now lets see how it looks from party side.
When enemies are gathered with Arcane singularity + icy terain = They are standing in one place, so GWF enough to get in right position and easily kill them all.
SW with Tyranical curse + other encounters = aoe dmg. HR and TR have enemies like duck on plate, enough to hit and kill them without running around..
Not mentioned DC have all party members in one spot so buffing become easy. Not mentioned for tank enough focus for that group.
This is old/classic tactic which no one use in these days..
Current tactic in dungeons are >>> smashing keyboard as fast you can. Use only highest dps powers without looking possible their combination. And most important rush to make highest paingiving/execution in score board.

In neverwinter is current situation > Higher gear score = smaller brain activity.
When players have weaker gear, they think more, come with tactics. Players with high GS brainelssly jump in group of monsters and you can hear keyboard smahing and mouse torment via voice chat.

asterotg · April 2017

bloodyspamer said:

tntslayer1 said:

I guess you don't play a cw
Played CW until SW where introduced.. Have friend who live not far from me, so time to time we switch places.. He play with my SW I play with his CW.
And funny is that lot of players don't see other than dps powers casting from CW side..
For example how many players use Arcane singularity in these days? Most players instantly scream >Noob<. Because they all use oprresion force for dps only. Now from other side. Cast arcane singularity> icy terran> Seal of time> Shard of the Endless Avalanche and in middle of these powers cast storm pillar if u are Spellstorm or Scorching Burst if Master of flames.

Now from side dps with this combo is not top. But now lets see how it looks from party side.
When enemies are gathered with Arcane singularity + icy terain = They are standing in one place, so GWF enough to get in right position and easily kill them all.
SW with Tyranical curse + other encounters = aoe dmg. HR and TR have enemies like duck on plate, enough to hit and kill them without running around..
Not mentioned DC have all party members in one spot so buffing become easy. Not mentioned for tank enough focus for that group.
This is old/classic tactic which no one use in these days..
Current tactic in dungeons are >>> smashing keyboard as fast you can. Use only highest dps powers without looking possible their combination. And most important rush to make highest paingiving/execution in score board.

In neverwinter is current situation > Higher gear score = smaller brain activity.
When players have weaker gear, they think more, come with tactics. Players with high GS brainelssly jump in group of monsters and you can hear keyboard smahing and mouse torment via voice chat.

Wow, so I did forget what I learned playing since beta, same as all these other guys writing the guides, when our IL broke 4k IL.

Thing is, I dont need tactics in VT, ELOL etc. bc. I outgear this dungeons and I can solo most of it.

Back to the OPs topic. There are OP things, that needed to get toned down. My complains are these. With enough testing 90% of these things should not make it to life server. Tone down is not a tone down, but a nerf bat in 90% of the 'fixes' resulting in a useless skill/class.

hadestemplar · April 2017

asterotg said:

Wow, so I did forget what I learned playing since beta, same as all these other guys writing the guides, when our IL broke 4k IL.

Thing is, I dont need tactics in VT, ELOL etc. bc. I outgear this dungeons and I can solo most of it.

Back to the OPs topic. There are OP things, that needed to get toned down. My complains are these. With enough testing 90% of these things should not make it to life server. Tone down is not a tone down, but a nerf bat in 90% of the 'fixes' resulting in a useless skill/class.

There is only 1 problem. Too many boosting factors within game. Boons from SH and campaign, insignias. Take them away. leave only mounts and companions benefits. And most problems within game balance would be fixed.
Other problem too many stacking mechanic within game.
Before fight you doing like 10k dmg, couple moments latter u dealing over 100k dmg.

Agile classes always had edge > hit>run>hit>run.
Mages = dmg from range. Weak in close range.
Melee(gf/gwf) strong melee, weak in range.

With too many boosting factors in NWO u break class balance. While dodge? Due high stats u can stand against incoming hits without big problems. So dodging become nonsense. And full DPs classes become mainstream. Now which class is such in NWO? GWF. Thats mean dodging and hitting as HR or TR become nonsense. Now try buff them. Add extra defensive stats = in pvp they are unrivaled.
Mage capable go in melee fight without big problems and require no dodging = breaking game balance too.

ryonas · April 2017

bloodyspamer said:

Played CW until SW where introduced.. Have friend who live not far from me, so time to time we switch places.. He play with my SW I play with his CW.
And funny is that lot of players don't see other than dps powers casting from CW side..
For example how many players use Arcane singularity in these days? Most players instantly scream >Noob<. Because they all use oprresion force for dps only.

Are you serious right now that just shows you don't play CW seriously

Any CW will tell you they miss using it for old times sake at pirate king dungeon gather and repel from the map that was fun

If you ask any CW they will tell you they want to use Arcane Singularity but the nerf to its control makes it useless and do you even know why it was nerfed even ?

Arcane Singluarity Nerf
--------------------

Becasue devs did not want to make sure that every part of old CN particles had a mesh with obstacle detection (invisible wall)

So the devs literally trashed a power because they did not want to do a whole rework the old CN map and look for every part of the map that did not have invisible wall and instead toned down its control power and when that did not work and mobs were still passing through walls they trashed Arcane Singularity control furthermore all together making it useless

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any CW in the forum knows that

I took game designing and i understand it was causing them bonkers to go through the whole maps and look for parts in every dungeon map that did not have obstacle detection ... it is a nightmare for their graphic designer .. i will admit that

The real reason CWs use Oppressive Force is not DPS

Absolutely not it is the fact it dazes enemies + the fact it does decent dps but control comes first which is dazing comes before DPS

So what you are saying dude literally throw it to garbage can i mean it because every CW in this forum including me is laughing at your post literally

If you are gonna Tell me that smart answer of using Control Bonus i will answer you in advance mobs have higher Control Resist than what ever you gonna stack even if that was 2k Control Bonus with high diminishing returns

Case Closed Thank you

Developers need to chill out on what they think needs to be nerfed

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