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My personal AA rage thread!

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  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User

    @mamalion1234

    "BACK to my question are any reason to stand behind the tank?"

    I cannot think of a single good reason for a DC, (AC or DO) to be in the "i formation" with the tank in Orcus.

    From behind AA can reach the tank if you slide in to his postero-lateral flank (~ 45 degrees) , hit AA then slide back to the stairs.

    Other personal AoEs?

    Sunburst is not very useful here, but if you must, the same flanking maneuver would work.

    Hallowed Ground, fired from the base of the stairs, covers the tank.

    All other useful Powers are ranged. Why not use them from the relative safety of the stairs behind Orcus? DPS Powers are then boosted by CA.

    Why on earth would anyone willingly give up CA to stand in the line of attack? To get a better view? :wink:

    THE Guy said stay behind so i can live.
  • nickjdowenickjdowe Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    putzboy78 said:

    DO Righteous can out dps many of the "dps classes" out there, there will always be room for competent players

    Yes but same can be said for AC Righteous, just most AC focus power sharing and Recovery over DPS. I'm an AC DPS build and can triple the closest DPS class in a pug group but that's not saying much. In my guild runs vs high DPS I do much less. It's tough to say which paragon makes you a better dps'er because all your buff/debuffs also effect your group so if you're hitting harder so is the GWF in your group. In PvP however, the DO is superior in DPS.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    FIRe of the gods bug: PROC and when you dont complete your action.
    Reproduce:
    TRY to cast break the spirit but cancel it at last moment.
    if the hit of bts would be critical then the feat proc.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User

    @mamalion1234

    "BACK to my question are any reason to stand behind the tank?"

    I cannot think of a single good reason for a DC, (AC or DO) to be in the "i formation" with the tank in Orcus.

    From behind AA can reach the tank if you slide in to his postero-lateral flank (~ 45 degrees) , hit AA then slide back to the stairs.

    Other personal AoEs?

    Sunburst is not very useful here, but if you must, the same flanking maneuver would work.

    Hallowed Ground, fired from the base of the stairs, covers the tank.

    All other useful Powers are ranged. Why not use them from the relative safety of the stairs behind Orcus? DPS Powers are then boosted by CA.

    Why on earth would anyone willingly give up CA to stand in the line of attack? To get a better view? :wink:

    THE Guy said stay behind so i can live.
    How'd that work out for you? :p
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • superent666superent666 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    I was wondering: a while ago it was the indestructible tin-box aka paladin that was cheesing everything for the whole group. For quite a while. Now it is the AA-spam-o-mat aka dc that has this role with the „bugged“ AA being even more ludicrous now. I don´t really know how to look at this as „bugs“ though.
    It seems more like they do this in order to offer players an „easy cheese mode“ which players happily take, of course, especially when they have to run content hundreds of times for farming purposes...and at the same time it serves to advertise less frequently chosen classes.
    I think it´s lame and I don´t like it. Wouldn´t help if aa gets fixed and the next class takes over this role. Maybe they think players are silly...and/or start hating each other if they had to do content hundreds of times while failure to observe mechanics, performance failure of certain class roles, unwillingness to dodge anything will most likely lead to a failed run.
    I wish it would be otherwise....get your clueless toons´ butt whipped in new content without any „easy-mode“ available until you brave it with cleverness and good teamwork. But no requirement to rinse and repeat the content ad nauseam. Quality instead of quantity. But it is what it is. The exact opposite.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    putzboy78 said:

    DO Righteous can out dps many of the "dps classes" out there, there will always be room for competent players

    When pugging even a AC DC can out DPS other classes if the other player are using the wrong mixture of feats, gear, at will, and encounters.

    When a DC is grouped up with players of equal skill that have proper feats, gear, at will, and encounters, the DC will not keep up with damage, because the DC is a leader class which is healing and buffing/debuffing. Than it secondary is controller, which is crowd control and buffing/debuffing. Notice the trend with a DC, buffing/debuffing.

    DC are simply 100% buffer/debuffer for groups and ATM the AC is the highly sought after DC build due to AA ability to make players forgo mechanics.

    I say next class up for a balancing should be a DC and it should be done sooner than later. This way, no more cheese AA runs.

  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    edited February 2017


    I say next class up for a balancing should be a DC and it should be done sooner than later. This way, no more cheese AA runs.

    DC don't need a rebalance. They just need to fix AA so us DOs don't feel like losers for not respec-ing and be AA holes.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User


    I say next class up for a balancing should be a DC and it should be done sooner than later. This way, no more cheese AA runs.

    DC don't need a rebalance. They just need to fix AA so us DOs don't feel like losers for not respec-ing and be AA holes.
    and maybe fix those companions redirecting every stat-buff they gain towards the owner x3, this would help a lot
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    The fix is simple but controversial, make the companions only pass bonding to the owner on unbuffed stats. This would be a huge nerf to dc and op dps though (and it could be a hard programming fix if the stats are not isolated like they are on the character), since we are constantly relying on buffing pets to pass the stats back multiplicative. Which for the sake of play-ability of these classes would require some buffs or fixes to existing mechanics to compensate for personal loss in dps. And of course the AA cc immunity.

  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User


    I say next class up for a balancing should be a DC and it should be done sooner than later. This way, no more cheese AA runs.

    DC don't need a rebalance. They just need to fix AA so us DOs don't feel like losers for not respec-ing and be AA holes.
    so someone asked you why you don't respec?
    and you decided for a nerf to AC to level you won't need respec.

    in this discussion you explain that:
    1. DO is actualy better DPS
    2. DO is better buffer/debuffer
    3. AA is broken, yet no one explain what is broken
    in my opnion AC is better in PVE for many reason other then AA.
    1. AC buff power, beside damage power incresase heals. in full buff i reach 50-100k heals with DG, with that i can do more agressive play.
    2. AC buff scale to his power and his party stat. the stronger i am the stronger my buff.

    if TR can cast 4xSE a min in PVP. i assume DC should able to do the same in PVE.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    plavia said:



    AA is broken, yet no one explain what is broken

    The effects of AA are supposed to be cleared when damage is received. That is the main challenge at the moment and the reason why AA has such high preference over HG. If AA cleared on damage, especially on the newer content where we are almost under some form of DoT effect no one would accuse it of being broken.
  • umarachnea#5673 umarachnea Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    putzboy78 said:


    The effects of AA are supposed to be cleared when damage is received. That is the main challenge at the moment and the reason why AA has such high preference over HG. If AA cleared on damage, especially on the newer content where we are almost under some form of DoT effect no one would accuse it of being broken.

    I con only speak on PS4 here, but people still die in mSVA towards the last phase when they dump 3-4 ice circles under everyone. It still interrupts, albeit barely a second, when it first pops, and does in fact quickly disintegrate AA to allow damage to come through... unless of course you are running with 3-4 clerics, and have high enough DPS that you don't stay too long in one spot.

    It is not the nerf to AA that will fix the issue here.. as mentioned, players will find another way to get around mechanics. And why not? really.. If I can find a group that wants the challenge of running everything the way it is meant to be, I would love it... but would I farm this way? when there is another option for me? Not really.. especially since the rng is terrible.

    The root of the problem is the game itself... Imagine this:

    - ice circles in mSVA have their damage multiplied by the number of players it hits.. more players bigger damage..

    - Runes, boss goes immune while still attacking. Players standing on the runes get a damage buff with a x min cooldown making it such that you alternate players on the runes without forcing the tank to go there.

    Just a simple change can inspire players to follow the mechanics... where if you do, you clear faster and better... This is where you will want a good synergy between clerics rather than just AA spammers, who barely buff you... the new cancels out the previous and if you got 5-7K less power, talk about buff nerf... Where you will look to have at least a couple of ranged DD in the group...

    - Maybe add a debuff on the tank which you can not be immune to, and stacks. Making sure you have at least 2 tanks who can pull aggro off each other so they drop their stacks... you know... like a good mechanic, in good mmo's.


    I dunno about nerfing AA, but a class rework alone means nothing if the content does not change with it too.

  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User


    I dunno about nerfing AA, but a class rework alone means nothing if the content does not change with it too.

    Depends on what you mean by rework. If your saying make DC just a healer, then yes a rework to content would be required. If they do what they've been doing lately which is monitor power usage for trends, strengthen the less popular powers and weaken the more popular powers then a rework of content is not required.

    What we be really interesting is to see what D&D really offers in terms of increased effectiveness on certain mobs. i.e. DCs being more effective against undead. If that were to happen, then content would need to be adjusted to ensure some content would be available to favor the class ability.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    putzboy78 said:

    The fix is simple but controversial, make the companions only pass bonding to the owner on unbuffed stats. This would be a huge nerf to dc and op dps though (and it could be a hard programming fix if the stats are not isolated like they are on the character), since we are constantly relying on buffing pets to pass the stats back multiplicative. Which for the sake of play-ability of these classes would require some buffs or fixes to existing mechanics to compensate for personal loss in dps. And of course the AA cc immunity.

    The situation we got atm is a huge gap between a player with a companion and 3x12 bondings and a player using an Augment.
    In my case this is:
    near 12k recovery from "Dragonheartspamming" combined with Artificer´s Persuation
    and let´s say +/-100k from AA/BF, OP and another DC will buff this on top to 180k+power in a party

    This is known to be the main issue why content got trivial and beside some broken mechanics (AA) the reason, why devs thought the implementation of raids like SVA and FBI were needed. Too many fast runs and too many speedkills, too much complaints.
    They adapted the level of dungeons to the level of powercreep and "super-buffs".
    Some groups do FBI in <30min, a lot need 90min running with suboptimal builds and buffs.

    There is no need for a DC or OP to get any compansation in case the "bondings rebounce phenomen" is fixed imho, we two allready discussed this topic in the past, and you stated you need those buffs for your companion (Shadowdeamon?) to deal some dps, right? I understand this point and I also hated to run dailies with a faithfull setup, awefull :(
    A faithfull DC and a virtous build allways are a pain runnning dailies, even having 3k+ IL, but I can´t defend a pretty broken mechanic only to compensate a lack of demage in my healing speck. A better solution would be a dualspec to avoid frustration.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    Creating a dual spec option would be a compensation for nerfing DC/OP dps when solo. Not sure it would be enough, but it has always been a pain point that getting a high ilvl is much more difficult on support classes than it is on dps classes since all rewards (outside of dungeons) are based on kills and all solo content requires kills to unlock boons, etc. GF as we know doesnt need help as it is already wreaking everything.
  • nickjdowenickjdowe Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    DOs are the Healadins of the DC community. Lol
  • umarachnea#5673 umarachnea Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    putzboy78 said:


    I dunno about nerfing AA, but a class rework alone means nothing if the content does not change with it too.

    Depends on what you mean by rework. If your saying make DC just a healer, then yes a rework to content would be required. If they do what they've been doing lately which is monitor power usage for trends, strengthen the less popular powers and weaken the more popular powers then a rework of content is not required.

    What we be really interesting is to see what D&D really offers in terms of increased effectiveness on certain mobs. i.e. DCs being more effective against undead. If that were to happen, then content would need to be adjusted to ensure some content would be available to favor the class ability.
    I'm simply looking at the current situation, regardless of what caused it. Players are increasingly reliant on AA to get through, or negate certain mechanics, which normally would cause a wipe or close enough to it. Where a DC with 18K base power is equal to one with 30K base power as long as they can spam AA...

    The ideas I presented above were to highlight that if the content introduces certain mechanics that no class can negate, then the class rework (whatever it may be) can work...

    What I'm trying to say here, is that since the 2 are intrinsically linked, they both need looking at... otherwise, it won't work.

    Whether we like it or not, players want to clear things as fast as possible, with as little effort as possible. If not with AA, they will find something else.
  • nataliemi971nataliemi971 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    I don't understand why so many DC's want other DC's to be nerfed. Just what goes on in their petty heads. If you don't want to go AA, fine. Just don't go on nerf crusades. It is the OTHER DC's who cry the most about AA!!!!

    DC's have been nerfed so many times. AA is the last daily power that is of any use. If AA is nerfed, DC's will have the worst daily powers of any class. Do you really think they'll rework it into usefulness? rofl. Ya right. There are ongoing bugs that are 5+ years old. They can't or won't put in time to correct the code.

    Healing is no long a thing in this game. It's mostly oneshots or so little damage that just passive healing from Virtuous is more than enough. We won't go back to being actual healers unless the entire game is redesigned but that won't happen.

    Most of our powers are completely useless. Who even uses any 60/65 powers other than Hastening Light, which still has bugs with items. There are practically no choices of what powers to use because most are just terrible and been nerfed to oblivion or have not been updated since post 60 expansions. And you guys want AA to go away? The sole reason that DC's are even wanted in groups in high end content nowadays?

    You are foolish if you think Cryptic will put in the effort to replace AA with something just as useful.

    All these nerf brigade people are doing is wishing for months or years of DC uselessness just so that their special snowflake builds can finally be used in groups. The fact is that DC AA buffing is the most effective way to build a DC for groups. Hands down it gives the most survivability and and damage boost to the group. If you still don't want to do it, then don't cry to nerf it out of spite.
  • umarachnea#5673 umarachnea Member Posts: 126 Arc User

    ....The fact is that DC AA buffing is the most effective way to build a DC for groups. Hands down it gives the most survivability and and damage boost to the group....

    Which brings us back to the OP's goal with this thread.

    Players, DD's basically, want to disregards mechanics, not put the effort, just because the DC, in their minds, should spam AA, or to quote the OP, "put in the effort so they don't have to"...

    While the conversations around AA tend to revolve around the fix this nerf that argument, it really comes down to being annoyed with having us be the only ones who need to focus and pull off the perfect performance instead of it being a group effort...

    And I have to agree, that when you run into a group that wants to disregard simple mechanics, just because the DC is supposed to do the work... it is quite annoying...
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  • umarachnea#5673 umarachnea Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    Lol... tbh I would love to run it at least once following proper mechanics and group comp.. i.e. move ice away, stand on runes, 2 DC, 2 Tank, 6 DD...
  • illhoraillhora Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    we know some changes are coming for our class and i think it is for the best.

    With proper build we can heal, buff-debuff maaaaaassively a party, tank almost all bosses in the game easly, provide dmg immunity to the party and ignore all donjons mechanics to burst any bosses.

    I know it s feeling really good to be the most wanted class atm. But How it is possible to not see that our class is kind of broken...

    I would love Devs to fix our bugs and re-balance our class to fit actual IG content - or increase challenge for end content

    There will be a bigger amplitude between good and bad DCs. 'Cause atm any DCs with R12 bounding casting AA is a god, even if he doesnt know other mechanics on his class and synergy with other classes.
  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    AA as far as i checked is not immunity in PVP/PVE for the all duration
    (if yes, it will be the first discussion in PVP section)
    it does keep the power buff, i agree.

    either way, AC is better in PVE by far.


    When AC cast AA:
    i get buff of power, more heals and damge to all arround me.
    i use Artifact i proc Artificer's Persuasion = 10% of my power as recovery/movement/AP for 15 sec
    Magistrate's Patience do damage equall to 10% of your power.
    assasins convert, Protector's Camaraderie. also based on power.
    with all this i reduce cool time to all around and give them 10% AP with hastering light.
    then i cast DG, BoH, Bts and buff and heal all, and fill my AP
    fiesta of power damage/ heals/ recovery/ AP to me and all around me.

    When DO cast HG:
    i cast one DG and than I need wait... why do i wait, i need 5sec wait to get AP from using DG.
    (its probably a mode 3 nerf or something that is still alive)


    All based on power now. and its DO that need fix, not AC a nerf

    blue mount is cheap and all bonuses based on power
    the cheap bonding and purple companions. all power based as well


    my advise, respec to AC and have fun.
    *the only time they will buff DO is if they will see no one is playing it.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    AC is not fun, but im pretty sure most DCs are AC now if for no more reason than to not hear the crying from teammates about it even if joining a party as a dps
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    plavia said:


    so someone asked you why you don't respec?
    and you decided for a nerf to AC to level you won't need respec.

    Actually no one asked me, because I'm not in a guild. But I'd imagine any DO DCs in a guild seriously running SVA/FBI would be under pressure to respec to help their buddies or be a disappointment to them.

    What the broken AA (it's not a nerf to fix something to do what it was originally suppose to do) does to me is discourage me from playing even further. I'm not doing the relic equipment grind, but every day I do SOMI dailies. I wouldn't mind doing a SVA or FBI run once in a while. But when most of the LFG people are asking for AA DC (people don't even ask by the proper name, AC DC, because they just want an AA hole), I just finish doing my dailies and call it a night.

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    If I see someone looking for "AA DC" then there is no way I want to join their party. There are a number of reasons to be AC, but being seen as a portable force field generator is still grating.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    Chains -> DG -> BoB -> AS -> AS-> AA -> DDG -> DChains -> DChains -> EBtS rinse repeat....

    Awesome another DC in party, I can switch things up

    Chains -> DG -> BoB -> AS -> AS-> AA -> DDG -> DChains -> DChains -> EFF rinse repeat....
  • dravendrow76dravendrow76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 38 Arc User
    Players want it, players get it.
    Its no longer about playing the game, its brainless Loot/Time.
    Not only MSVA/FBI.
    Dont want to know how many Players would use a skipDungeonGoToChest Button. It seems to me, the mayority.
    With or without AA
  • nickjdowenickjdowe Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    What is wrong with some of the classes in this game calling for nerfs to their fellow classmates that chose the better paragon path for the current mod? SW did it to the puppet builds, OP Healidins did it to the bubble (currently trying to get SoF + CoP looked at), DO DCs trying to nerf AA. You know who never pulls this HAMSTER, GWF? Lol you never see a Iron Vanguard/ Instigators crying about SM Destroyers having some OP power. The GWF community comes together and says "please look at the other 2 paths".

    The fact is, even if you removed AA from the game entirely AC would still be more requested than a DO in PvE. What makes a DO "more fun" than an AC @putzboy78 I'm dying to know? PoD or Terrifying Insight? PoD doesn't even work.. That's what should be the topic of a rage thread. Also people want fully empowered BtS not PoD, and terrifying insight only increases your personal DPS 17.5% whereas the AC can raise the DPS of the party by ?% with a single cast of an At Will (BoB) with a base power of 30-35k.

    I enjoy min/max builds. I don't follow builds I invent them. If I wanted a flat out DPS cleric maybe I'd go back to my mod 5 DO build. AC is hands down a better group player and probably a better solo player as well with or without AA.
  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    whem righous came in in mode 5 i think. players had L60 max.
    one crit hit of fire of gods and u kill someone in PVP (no tenacity as well)
    stat was hard to get. today jarl's Gaze give u 3K power, (=4xR12 radiant)

    its diffrent story now.
    today all build on linear stat and power wins all. AC rule now
    and with the new weapon enchants AC will continue to be the beast of PVE.
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