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Reduce the requirements to enter FBI ?

pan17pan17 Member Posts: 310 Arc User
I don't see any posts about that...i remember one but i think it went to the bottom of the posts...
Everyone knows that 3.1k iL requires you to have legendary arti equipment and rank 9's enchants...this is getting too much and too expensive for the average mmorpg player who are limited to playing lower item level dungeons and farming for only one piece of the new pve gear...
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  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    pan17 said:

    I don't see any posts about that...i remember one but i think it went to the bottom of the posts...
    Everyone knows that 3.1k iL requires you to have legendary arti equipment and rank 9's enchants...this is getting too much and too expensive for the average mmorpg player who are limited to playing lower item level dungeons and farming for only one piece of the new pve gear...

    Although I agree with you, I think that the intent here is that access to the dungeon should be its own reward (god knows the drops in the dungeon aren't exactly good ROI on the time / resources invested in getting there).

    At least that's the only way I can square the decisions being made here. The devs made a cool new dungeon, knowing the community was demanding it. In order to extend the amount of "engaging play time" associated with that content, the devs are using a very high bar of entry encouraging players to enjoy many fine hours of interacting with relics in order for them to achieve the coveted entry criteria for FBI.

    Sarcasm aside, FBI is really hard. I don't think that lowering the iLvl req would be wise right now. Similar to how running other dungeons close to the min iLvl proves challenging, I think FBI is even tougher in comparison to the entry requirements. If they lowered the bar to entry, it would mostly result in a whole lot more failed runs (there are plenty now anyway) and a whole lot more frustration from players who feel that because they meet the min iLvl req they should be able to easily complete the content.
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  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    If your having trouble getting to 3.1k , just keep grinding other dungeons.. no reason to try to get to FBI, your not missing much.. unless you want to, get gear you cant possible empower, without doing like ummm 900 hes a month.

    Many of us with over 3.1k toons dont even run it, even after we got it unlocked, other then a 1-2 times a week for fun.

    if you go in and search the game, you will see 1-2 runs at most at any one time, somtimes none, AT the height of the weekend, I saw 5 last saturday night.



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  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    They made it clear this was a high end dungeon for people who are fully geared. If you can not get to 3.1k IL and 28% rest, this dungeon was not designed for you.

    I understand this is a hard concept to gather in a world of MMOs (and a world in general) that cater to everyone by trying to include everyone in everything. Perhaps they will make a 2k version of this dungeon so you can experience it....

    Please keep the requirements the way they are. Not trying to sound elitist, but a lot of the people running this dungeon passed the 3.1k mark a LOOOOONG time ago, and deserve something to show for it.
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  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    ITS all about to push the player to buy to get 3.1.REMinds me the old karrudnax this boss. 2 first bosses the hard part and then last boss is all about his special attacks than how much he really can hit a tank;p
  • drewhayesdrewhayes Member Posts: 101 Arc User

    They made it clear this was a high end dungeon for people who are fully geared. If you can not get to 3.1k IL and 28% rest, this dungeon was not designed for you.

    I understand this is a hard concept to gather in a world of MMOs (and a world in general) that cater to everyone by trying to include everyone in everything. Perhaps they will make a 2k version of this dungeon so you can experience it....

    Please keep the requirements the way they are. Not trying to sound elitist, but a lot of the people running this dungeon passed the 3.1k mark a LOOOOONG time ago, and deserve something to show for it.

    A long time ago, 3.1 was within the reach of any player. That's not exactly the case anymore.

  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    drewhayes said:

    They made it clear this was a high end dungeon for people who are fully geared. If you can not get to 3.1k IL and 28% rest, this dungeon was not designed for you.

    I understand this is a hard concept to gather in a world of MMOs (and a world in general) that cater to everyone by trying to include everyone in everything. Perhaps they will make a 2k version of this dungeon so you can experience it....

    Please keep the requirements the way they are. Not trying to sound elitist, but a lot of the people running this dungeon passed the 3.1k mark a LOOOOONG time ago, and deserve something to show for it.

    A long time ago, 3.1 was within the reach of any player. That's not exactly the case anymore.

    That's a little melodramatic... 3.1k is very much within reach of any player.

    You can't get there immediately, but that's kind of the point. Their whole monetization strategy boils down to "pay to accelerate" so starting to give you some long term objectives is kind of a sensible move.

    That said, if you play smart, you could start from scratch and get a character geared up to 3.1k over the course of say... a year. If you had VIP it would be faster than that, probably by half. Do you think that's unreasonable?

    ITS all about to push the player to buy to get 3.1.REMinds me the old karrudnax this boss. 2 first bosses the hard part and then last boss is all about his special attacks than how much he really can hit a tank;p

    Especially with the incoming BO changes, it's clear that they are trying to bring some variety back into the boss fights. People might have to wake up a bit from their comas...
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    dupeks said:

    drewhayes said:

    They made it clear this was a high end dungeon for people who are fully geared. If you can not get to 3.1k IL and 28% rest, this dungeon was not designed for you.

    I understand this is a hard concept to gather in a world of MMOs (and a world in general) that cater to everyone by trying to include everyone in everything. Perhaps they will make a 2k version of this dungeon so you can experience it....

    Please keep the requirements the way they are. Not trying to sound elitist, but a lot of the people running this dungeon passed the 3.1k mark a LOOOOONG time ago, and deserve something to show for it.

    A long time ago, 3.1 was within the reach of any player. That's not exactly the case anymore.

    That's a little melodramatic... 3.1k is very much within reach of any player.

    You can't get there immediately, but that's kind of the point. Their whole monetization strategy boils down to "pay to accelerate" so starting to give you some long term objectives is kind of a sensible move.

    That said, if you play smart, you could start from scratch and get a character geared up to 3.1k over the course of say... a year. If you had VIP it would be faster than that, probably by half. Do you think that's unreasonable?

    ITS all about to push the player to buy to get 3.1.REMinds me the old karrudnax this boss. 2 first bosses the hard part and then last boss is all about his special attacks than how much he really can hit a tank;p

    Especially with the incoming BO changes, it's clear that they are trying to bring some variety back into the boss fights. People might have to wake up a bit from their comas...
    It´s not the IL. There is near no need to run this dungeon except for fun. I would say >98% of my guild/Alliance don´t care about FBI and don´t take part ever.
    Some lack in gear some in everfrostresistance.
    Buying Frostborn gear and spending time in the chat for grouping, as though running this dungeon in 60min (sone do better, some need 2 hours) is a lot of time regarding the reward being low level. NWO the grind/time ratio is pretty bad, as if not the worst in the shole game.
    So there is near no need to farm tons of Lanolin, Voninblood etc. except for the Chausses/Chaincoat set and the boons, wich can be done by doing dailies.
  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    enter fbi with 3.1k and you will at least have a chance to finish the dungeon or enter with a much lower ilvl and just get smashed >:)
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • silence1xsilence1x Member Posts: 1,503 Arc User

    They made it clear this was a high end dungeon for people who are fully geared. If you can not get to 3.1k IL and 28% rest, this dungeon was not designed for you.

    I understand this is a hard concept to gather in a world of MMOs (and a world in general) that cater to everyone by trying to include everyone in everything. Perhaps they will make a 2k version of this dungeon so you can experience it....

    Please keep the requirements the way they are. Not trying to sound elitist, but a lot of the people running this dungeon passed the 3.1k mark a LOOOOONG time ago, and deserve something to show for it.

    This is a great summation baldy. I agree. While I haven't run then dungeon on Live yet, I think that those that put in the time should have something that tests their skills. I'm in no hurry but BiS folks should have a goal ;)

    I aim to misbehave
  • reposterzreposterz Member Posts: 293 Arc User
    pan17 said:

    I don't see any posts about that...i remember one but i think it went to the bottom of the posts...
    Everyone knows that 3.1k iL requires you to have legendary arti equipment and rank 9's enchants...this is getting too much and too expensive for the average mmorpg player who are limited to playing lower item level dungeons and farming for only one piece of the new pve gear...

    I agree with you man, you got my vote and please make the difficulty reduced with requirements as well....
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    pan17 said:

    I don't see any posts about that...i remember one but i think it went to the bottom of the posts...
    Everyone knows that 3.1k iL requires you to have legendary arti equipment and rank 9's enchants...this is getting too much and too expensive for the average mmorpg player who are limited to playing lower item level dungeons and farming for only one piece of the new pve gear...

    If you're below 3.1k ilvl you shouldn't even be bothering with the new gear. The amount of AD you're giving up to restore the armor could easily put you well past 3.1k.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
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  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User

    A much more rational solution is to lower refinement requirements, and ward and mark prices. Make it easier to get to 3.1k for those who are struggling.

    There are double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly, and these people still can't get to 3.1k. I dont think this would do anything for those people.
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    I am so tired of hearing how requirements need to be reduced, difficulty needs to be reduced, items need to be nerfed, etc. I am 4.3k CW that like most veterans want more content with attainable quality loot for a reasonable grind. It seems that like in life, there are too many peeps that want it all without doing the work. If you are dedicated, in a good guild, and have more than one brain cell, it is much easier to get geared than you think.
  • drewhayesdrewhayes Member Posts: 101 Arc User
    dupeks said:

    drewhayes said:

    They made it clear this was a high end dungeon for people who are fully geared. If you can not get to 3.1k IL and 28% rest, this dungeon was not designed for you.

    I understand this is a hard concept to gather in a world of MMOs (and a world in general) that cater to everyone by trying to include everyone in everything. Perhaps they will make a 2k version of this dungeon so you can experience it....

    Please keep the requirements the way they are. Not trying to sound elitist, but a lot of the people running this dungeon passed the 3.1k mark a LOOOOONG time ago, and deserve something to show for it.

    A long time ago, 3.1 was within the reach of any player. That's not exactly the case anymore.

    That's a little melodramatic... 3.1k is very much within reach of any player.

    You can't get there immediately, but that's kind of the point. Their whole monetization strategy boils down to "pay to accelerate" so starting to give you some long term objectives is kind of a sensible move.

    That said, if you play smart, you could start from scratch and get a character geared up to 3.1k over the course of say... a year. If you had VIP it would be faster than that, probably by half. Do you think that's unreasonable?

    ITS all about to push the player to buy to get 3.1.REMinds me the old karrudnax this boss. 2 first bosses the hard part and then last boss is all about his special attacks than how much he really can hit a tank;p

    Especially with the incoming BO changes, it's clear that they are trying to bring some variety back into the boss fights. People might have to wake up a bit from their comas...
    Well, since this thread is specifically dealing with FBI... yes, I think 1 year is unreasonable. This particular dungeon is only a couple months old. There are already some players that have gotten the run down to under 20 mins. 1 year from now, is there going to be enuff interest in this dungeon to even yield a full party? How often? Am I going to have to log in in the middle of the night to run with a bunch of players off the European server? Or will all the end-game players have moved on to the next mod by then?

  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    got my Main char to 3.9k gs within half a year without spending more then 50 €. So its easily possible if you really want it
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  • allmightymunky#3943 allmightymunky Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    pan17 said:

    A much more rational solution is to lower refinement requirements, and ward and mark prices. Make it easier to get to 3.1k for those who are struggling.

    There are double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly, and these people still can't get to 3.1k. I dont think this would do anything for those people.
    ''double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly''....
    I was farming three whole months resonance stones from leadership and some thaumaturge and when double refinement event came out i used all these stones to my epic level 39 arti waist, only just to realize that i could refine it to level 43 out of 59...
    four meager refinement levels after three whole months of farming for only just one epic artifact equipment....
    That does not seem fair at all if this is true.
  • reposterzreposterz Member Posts: 293 Arc User
    pan17 said:

    A much more rational solution is to lower refinement requirements, and ward and mark prices. Make it easier to get to 3.1k for those who are struggling.

    There are double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly, and these people still can't get to 3.1k. I dont think this would do anything for those people.
    ''double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly''....
    I was farming three whole months resonance stones from leadership and some thaumaturge and when double refinement event came out i used all these stones to my epic level 39 arti waist, only just to realize that i could refine it to level 43 out of 59...
    four meager refinement levels after three whole months of farming for only just one epic artifact equipment....
    Yeah, too much grinding in this game.... i agree.
  • danerildaneril Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    I just hit 3.1 and to be honest it wasn't that hard and didn't take all that long.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    reposterz said:

    pan17 said:

    A much more rational solution is to lower refinement requirements, and ward and mark prices. Make it easier to get to 3.1k for those who are struggling.

    There are double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly, and these people still can't get to 3.1k. I dont think this would do anything for those people.
    ''double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly''....
    I was farming three whole months resonance stones from leadership and some thaumaturge and when double refinement event came out i used all these stones to my epic level 39 arti waist, only just to realize that i could refine it to level 43 out of 59...
    four meager refinement levels after three whole months of farming for only just one epic artifact equipment....
    Yeah, too much grinding in this game.... i agree.
    when one skips entire mods because demons i can believe it.
    i agree with the grind thing, not with reaching 3.1K.
    for me (for example) the everfrost requirement is worst. That means you are going to waste like 400k ads for piece, hence 2M ads plus the time wasted for 80k voninblood (which we can easily estimates in like 1 M ads). I would have a char at 3k with 3M ads.
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    I'm not sure how the everfrost requirement is causing issues. The food should be available from your guild hall (or a guild hall in your alliance). The ring is free from the questline/campaign, as are some potions and the boons basically. The TB bars to get a couple pieces of gear from the TB store would be spendy but you get more than enough stuff from the lockboxes to make up for that, and you can buy one piece of the AH.

    Unless you dont have any tradebars, I can't see this costing you more than 50k AD or so, plus either a grind for lanolin for your boots or some spending on the AH for it. You should have more than enough blood at this point to get the gear to t3 once.

    Doesn't seem that hard to me, but then I have tradebars to burn and a lot of AD stored, so it didn't impact me much.

    I will agree the entire game is too grindy and the new campaign isn't helping.
    pan17 said:

    A much more rational solution is to lower refinement requirements, and ward and mark prices. Make it easier to get to 3.1k for those who are struggling.

    There are double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly, and these people still can't get to 3.1k. I dont think this would do anything for those people.
    ''double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly''....
    I was farming three whole months resonance stones from leadership and some thaumaturge and when double refinement event came out i used all these stones to my epic level 39 arti waist, only just to realize that i could refine it to level 43 out of 59...
    four meager refinement levels after three whole months of farming for only just one epic artifact equipment....
    You are doing something very wrong. If you are farming you own RP, you are wasting time. Farm AD, and use the AD to get stuff off the AH. If you can cap at 36k a day, thats 4 days to buy a stack of Lesser Resonances stones, which will give any artifact a huge bump. Trying to grind them out with hoard enchantments or whatever wont get you there. Leadership is also a must....
  • qexoticqexotic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 841 Arc User

    I'm not sure how the everfrost requirement is causing issues. The food should be available from your guild hall (or a guild hall in your alliance). The ring is free from the questline/campaign, as are some potions and the boons basically. The TB bars to get a couple pieces of gear from the TB store would be spendy but you get more than enough stuff from the lockboxes to make up for that, and you can buy one piece of the AH.

    Unless you dont have any tradebars, I can't see this costing you more than 50k AD or so, plus either a grind for lanolin for your boots or some spending on the AH for it. You should have more than enough blood at this point to get the gear to t3 once.

    Doesn't seem that hard to me, but then I have tradebars to burn and a lot of AD stored, so it didn't impact me much.

    I will agree the entire game is too grindy and the new campaign isn't helping.

    pan17 said:

    A much more rational solution is to lower refinement requirements, and ward and mark prices. Make it easier to get to 3.1k for those who are struggling.

    There are double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly, and these people still can't get to 3.1k. I dont think this would do anything for those people.
    ''double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly''....
    I was farming three whole months resonance stones from leadership and some thaumaturge and when double refinement event came out i used all these stones to my epic level 39 arti waist, only just to realize that i could refine it to level 43 out of 59...
    four meager refinement levels after three whole months of farming for only just one epic artifact equipment....
    You are doing something very wrong. If you are farming you own RP, you are wasting time. Farm AD, and use the AD to get stuff off the AH. If you can cap at 36k a day, thats 4 days to buy a stack of Lesser Resonances stones, which will give any artifact a huge bump. Trying to grind them out with hoard enchantments or whatever wont get you there. Leadership is also a must....
    That's quite a reasonable assessment, though it does overlook a couple of things. Players who are not in Guilds do not have any access to the Guld Hall Food. Also, before you grind for or buy Lanolin you have to grind out HEs to get the boots in the first place. Although, you can also pick up some Lanolin while you are grinding for the boots :)

    For ther record, I have ground out most of the RP for my gear rather than buy it from the AH. I have bought stacks of enchants in the past for artifacts but never used the AH to refine up my artifact gear/weapons. All but one of my three characters now has a full set of Legendary gear and Mythic Artifacts. I am working on the final piece of Legendary Gear for the final character and have only got to get the last artifact ready to upgrade to Mythic before working on the other ingredients. But I have been playing and grinding for almost 2 years >:)

  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    rayrdan said:

    reposterz said:

    pan17 said:

    A much more rational solution is to lower refinement requirements, and ward and mark prices. Make it easier to get to 3.1k for those who are struggling.

    There are double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly, and these people still can't get to 3.1k. I dont think this would do anything for those people.
    ''double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly''....
    I was farming three whole months resonance stones from leadership and some thaumaturge and when double refinement event came out i used all these stones to my epic level 39 arti waist, only just to realize that i could refine it to level 43 out of 59...
    four meager refinement levels after three whole months of farming for only just one epic artifact equipment....
    Yeah, too much grinding in this game.... i agree.
    when one skips entire mods because demons i can believe it.
    i agree with the grind thing, not with reaching 3.1K.
    for me (for example) the everfrost requirement is worst. That means you are going to waste like 400k ads for piece, hence 2M ads plus the time wasted for 80k voninblood (which we can easily estimates in like 1 M ads). I would have a char at 3k with 3M ads.
    How? 30k Gloves, 12k x2 Everfrost Kits. That's the only stuff you need to buy.
    Add Pants / Shirt, ring, potion, soup, 1 boon and you are at 28%
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    pan17 said:

    A much more rational solution is to lower refinement requirements, and ward and mark prices. Make it easier to get to 3.1k for those who are struggling.

    There are double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly, and these people still can't get to 3.1k. I dont think this would do anything for those people.
    ''double refinements about once a month now, which reduces the refinement cost significantly''....
    I was farming three whole months resonance stones from leadership and some thaumaturge and when double refinement event came out i used all these stones to my epic level 39 arti waist, only just to realize that i could refine it to level 43 out of 59...
    four meager refinement levels after three whole months of farming for only just one epic artifact equipment....
    Maybe you are using the wrong stones or something? Using hoard enchants and wanderers fortune will give you enough RP to level at least one arti-gear artifact in the time between double RPs.
    Even if not, with Reso from leadership you really should have for one, with 3 months...

    (Not saying that RP is easy to get, but this sounds way to low)

    Post edited by micky1p00 on
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User

    You are doing something very wrong. If you are farming you own RP, you are wasting time. Farm AD, and use the AD to get stuff off the AH. If you can cap at 36k a day, thats 4 days to buy a stack of Lesser Resonances stones, which will give any artifact a huge bump. Trying to grind them out with hoard enchantments or whatever wont get you there. Leadership is also a must....

    I agree that he's doing something wrong but to recommend wasting his AD is wrong IMO. I have never bought a single item for RP and never will. I never had any problem upgrading items.

    Given that it takes 4,645,200 RP to upgrade a waist from 1 to 60 that's the equivalent of 930 lesser stones of res (during double AD). He claimed he was farming for 3 months. That means all he had to do was get on average 10 lesser stones a day or 25000 RP a day (50k during double). Between leadership, hoards, farming, etc that is easy to do in any combination of resonance stones, peridots, aquamarines, etc.

    After 3 months he should have enough to take more than 1 item to legendary unless he was only playing for an hour a day.
  • sulajplsulajpl Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    After reading all threads, I assume both arguments 'for' and 'against' are resonable. Though, being an equal 3k IL player, I think getting rather 28% EVFRes than 100 iL is actually expensive. The content of all the game is desined in the way that by not-participating in a FBI dungeon, i loose barely nothing. My opinion is that the requirements are stated well - for players that CAN actually handle meeting them. I hope though that in Module 10.5 (Sea of Moving Ice) the settled 'end-game skirmish' will have lowered requirements, kind of the way it was between ToD and Ndemo/Edemo.
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