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People that play support classes as damage dealers
phoenix1021
Member Posts: 532 Arc User
This seems to be a recent trend; clerics and guardian fighters (never seen paladins do that), who refuse to play their support roles in public queues. I just had an edemo run where the guardian not only refused to attack demogorgon, he had an owl companion! You know, the one that reduces threat. Of course me as a healer, I get lasered to death after 3 healing spells.
People that play a support class (cleric, guardian and paladin) need to be aware that they actually have to play the support role in public queues. Otherwise it will just end in failure and it's their fault. I wish people would keep that in mind.
What can be done about that problem?
And don't tell me not to use public queues, you can't even get into a group anymore otherwise if you are under 3k IL.
I understand if some people think support is boring, but why choose to play a support class then?
People that play a support class (cleric, guardian and paladin) need to be aware that they actually have to play the support role in public queues. Otherwise it will just end in failure and it's their fault. I wish people would keep that in mind.
What can be done about that problem?
And don't tell me not to use public queues, you can't even get into a group anymore otherwise if you are under 3k IL.
I understand if some people think support is boring, but why choose to play a support class then?
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If you dont got a FL ---> a MMO is the wrong game
And I am aware you can't force people. I just wanted to vent because this happened a lot lately. Maybe one of those dps-guardians will read this and understand? Small hope!
independently from ur path and paragon. So when u join pug (i dont advice this by any means tho) and u see u party has troubles, its not a problem to change class feature or 2 and go full tank mode, but some ppl r just pricks, and they will hold on they full dps setup just for reason. same goes to dc, u can be in full dmg mode if its ur choice, but when u see ur party is struggling, at least throw AA in crucial moments, and change one encounter for AS.
Not doing that is just conscious jeopardizing ur party chance for success.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Always thought one class-one path will be better for them since they cant look after every build or class bug or inefficiency
I'm a cong GF but don't do super high DPS.
I do agro but I can't turn on Knight's Valor (dmg intercept) or I'm dead in seconds. Because we started playing them when this game required support classes or the party would wipe in 5 minutes.
This game is streamlined now to just burn with DPS, so everyone is trying to get as much DPS as possible.
its the players not the paths.
if players see people with half health bars and cant , you know throw dg on top of them.. its not the pathing problem, thats a people problem.
and no, just because you go dps, doesnt mean you can abandon that roll.
The whole purpose is to get enough people together who know what they are doing to burn a instance down. In edemo thats basically 3-4 people.
in tiamat probably closer to 8 or so.
People are completely thinking of this wrong.. your blaming paths/builds and not the players.
Going whatever path, does NOT at all make it that you shouldnt do your role while grouping.
There are definitely optimal and sub-optimal pathing builds.. but frankly righteous is actual the optimal build in todays meta for dcs(in pve).. it gives a additional amount of debuff/buff back to the group, mine doesnt even include the personal dps feat, as I branched into another line.
Frankly GFS are a little too dps heavy atm(some are top dps already).. but thats another discussion, it maybe the thought of that gf, since he might have been even the top 5 dps, to just dps.. but you know.. again players.. not abilities come into play here.
That gf should've sacrificed his dps for that turn to get the thing done. He couldve in phase 2 go bonkers if he wanted to and probably still ended up top 5.
Is some of that cryptics fault for doing some wacky things with that class? yes.. but regardless it boils down to the player.. its 99% on the player who cant, you know tank in phase 1.. because he thinks he shouldnt .
Picked up this conversation:
OP: you are sh8tty GWF. You can't do any damage. My OP is out-damaging you.
GWF: I am a tank GWF. I have been buffing you.
OP: WTH! I don't need your buff. I need you to do damage. I don't need you to tank. I am the tank. What kind of GWF are you?
GWF: I am playing an utility role.....
OP: ..........
That´s even less support than a Warlock spends to a party.
Only powers I can find that debuffs or buffs are: wicked strike, daring shout, threatening rush-mark, battle fury
3 from those powers can be used by a SM destroyer, except TR 8% debuff
5% less damage in an area of 30` can´t be seen as a support worth to go sentinel imo
I thought to suggest putting a checkbox to choose which role do you want in new party finder but I am sure trolls will use that to get in groups faster by taking healers or tanks position.It happened other games.
As for GF doing damage, their innate abilities force them to tank, their best aoe skill taunts and their best single target debuff increases threat. If they didn't use those skills they would end up doing less damage.
It's the same with these "Buffer" GFs who refuse to tank, if they want to debuff/buff then they will generate threat AND if they want to use the tactician capstone (which all these buffer GFs are) they NEED to take damage to get it to work (and alot of it), meaning they have to tank.
That being said, if they want to play that way then let them. I've joined random queue just to test things out, to try without certain skills since I'm more inclined to put randoms through misery than people I actually know.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Another possibility: cryptic could adjust game balance the way that supports roles can only be viable for a group of they are actually supporting.
There is two very distinct and opposing schools of thought here.
- You should play the role your class was designed for since beta.
- You should be able to play the way you want.
I lean towards the play as you want side because of the way the game changed, but the other opinion has merit. I won't deny that.I'm a DPS GF (no paingiver but respectable). Why?
- One reason is because PUG heals dried up when DCs got a massive dps buff 4 mods ago and wanted to be CWs for a while.
- Control wizards stop controlling and started focuses on pure DPS. Add no control plus no heal=dead GF, right? But if the GF dies, it's all their fault. If you've played a GF, you've heard it before.
- I learned that with mobs with high arm pen, life steal works better then defense with a cleric that doesn't heal. Life steal needs DPS.
- Solo play. This game has more drop-in,drop-out and pug-and-play content then it used to.
The content.- Heroics: No tank needed EVER;
- Burn 'em down skirmishes: Run fast and hit stuff. You might need a tank for 1 minute at the end of POM;
- Trials like Tiamat and Demo where you might need 1 tank...maybe? Tiamat, no tank is needed.
So really support classes need to be support classes for "difficult content", but how much of your time spent in this game is done doing T2s and up? The game has moved away from dungeons since Mod 3 and that trajectory continues.Rewards for dungeons are not great. Even Castle Never reward stink for the time required. So really this game has gone, full steam ahead into a DPS fest.
So can you blame support classes for jumping on the band wagon to avoid extinction?
Shouldn't players be responsible for themselves instead of blaming support classes in a game where the holy trinity of tank, heal, dps is headed towards forgotten. If players can face off in PvP, why would they be dependent on 'support' in PvE? The new content doesn't' demand this, but some are still thinking in that old paradigm.
Also tanks doesnt mean that they only do tanking.Most tanks also use plaguefire or terror enchantments which is useful debuffs for all players in the same encounter.GF tanks are also best buffers in the game right now.You will need lots of defense for that. You already become tank since you stack defense and you have a shield with 80% deflect.I dont think there is OP tanks anymore since they are better of being healers or DPSers(yes paladins do damage as good as 3k+ warlocks)
If all the dps dies because the tank refuses to protect the healers or the healers don't heal then it doesn't matter how good your dps build is, you won't be able to deal damage.
My cleric is righteous, when I see it is needed I slot healers lore and 2 healing spells. (I always do that in random edemo) Also always astral seal in group content. It's not that difficult and noone demands any more than that.
And since full heals are not needed, it´s best way to go rightous max buff.
That way you can run every content being 2,5k GS, everyone loves you, and you can farm your dailies.
Faithfull is such a pain going solo.
Beside: AS 40%DR, HG 20%DR+damage, AA 40%damage, DG 17,5% Debuff/12,5% buff, Gift of Haste-AP gain,blessing of battle 8%DR+15%power to the party
that tree has: Bear your sins ->10% damage from all sources and comdemning gaze ->15% damage from all sources on top plus weapon of light 10% from your power to the party
I run AC-rightous and you boost the partydamage >100%, having a GF in your group the damageboost is too much imo
I do think everyone should chose wich role to play, but in case heal or tank is needed every conquerer GF can take that role and every rightous can do same.
My gear, talking about companion and bondings, is not worth to contest with pure damagedealer anyway, it´s more embarrassing and since the most buffs, except the two powerboosts, are the same if casted by a 2k or 4k DC the supporter role is best option imo.
But if someone wants to conquer the paingiver let it be.
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