IV vs Orcus

treesclimber · March 2016

Question is very simple, as a low IL tatician how is it possible to tank orcus without steel defence?

oliboyph · March 2016

Block and avoid big hits, use potions.

Unknown · March 2016

This content has been removed.

treesclimber · March 2016

xsayajinx1 said:
Did you try spamming Fighters Recovery + Gaurded Asssault?

Cant afford to build the needed ap fast enough to make it always up and when i lower my shield many times end up 1 shoted and even if i manage to build enough ap ill have to lower shield to cast ET to refill stamina because i cant afford stay with shield lowered and cast itf, in that process.....im dead.

kemi1984 · March 2016

Spamming FR with GA will not help either - at least not in a "clean tanking".

By "clean tanking" I mean no mitigation from other players lie DC's Astral Shield etc.

Without Steel Defence you're destined to be OHK'ed period !

I have a mixed feelings about the Orcus encounter, it should be hard but having a one shotting boss at the end of the dungeon which does not require actual tanking if you have a, mostly, ranged DPS setup - is quite original ?

.

At the same time I do not see anything particular new or refreshing with a stationary boss that just kills whoever get's in the melee range

.

I was in a group that finished Orcus before he even flew up for the green blob phase - lasted few secs actually till he was dead.
Was in another than couldn't finish the dungeon because we've wiped so many times due to the fact that I was unable to survive more than few his hits.

So at the end of the day it's rough for melee classes, and easy for a ranged DPS.

The bottom line is, Orcus should move more to make the fight even moderately cool. Why it can;t be done like the 1st boss in Spellplague Caverns? now that was a cool boss fight

with boss constantly bouncing around the area, and players had to close the trash spawning pits - I liked it a lot ! the good old days....

treesclimber · March 2016

kemi1984 said:
Spamming FR with GA will not help either - at least not in a "clean tanking".

By "clean tanking" I mean no mitigation from other players lie DC's Astral Shield etc.

Without Steel Defence you're destined to be OHK'ed period !

I have a mixed feelings about the Orcus encounter, it should be hard but having a one shotting boss at the end of the dungeon which does not require actual tanking if you have a, mostly, ranged DPS setup - is quite original ? .

At the same time I do not see anything particular new or refreshing with a stationary boss that just kills whoever get's in the melee range .

I was in a group that finished Orcus before he even flew up for the green blob phase - lasted few secs actually till he was dead.
Was in another than couldn't finish the dungeon because we've wiped so many times due to the fact that I was unable to survive more than few his hits.

So at the end of the day it's rough for melee classes, and easy for a ranged DPS.

The bottom line is, Orcus should move more to make the fight even moderately cool. Why it can;t be done like the 1st boss in Spellplague Caverns? now that was a cool boss fight with boss constantly bouncing around the area, and players had to close the trash spawning pits - I liked it a lot ! the good old days....

I thing some aoe dot's are missing to party or at least something to make them suffer, the idea of orcus is very good, it hits very high and if you keep the aggro on yourself your teammates cannot be one shoted by a back kick. This has allowed non perma bubble paladins to tank by retaining all damage (with a experient DC/OP), basically you need a tank to take damage for you, the problem is exactly what you said, ranged classes, so it should be something else for them, but not too hard. This as also created a very interesting new option for sentinels, shared aggro, once a sentinel gets unstopable (orcus has 3 hits, 1 fatal all 3 fatal on portals fase so sentinel can charge determination wit 2 lower its with proper dc debuffs) he's close to a GF with shield up, if a paladin is with trouble they could share damage by turns while dc spams as and bts, this all just theory ofc....i dont think people could actually do this.

lantern22 · March 2016

Whats you're definition of low IL?

I'm a 3.1K IV Tactician. Pretty much one hit from Orcus fills my AP bar, so FR can get used as much as needed. So its block one hit - pop ITF, block one - pop FR, block one - hit him with tide of iron, block one - hit him with CS and then rinse and repeat throwing in extra FR's as needed. Only go for two "actions" when he is in the extended animation and raises his arms above his head.

If you mistime one, then you rely on soul forged. I have the eye of latthander set, so that helps. If you mistime two within 90 secs then there are problems.

Hardest thing for me is if the aggravating strike animation goes another strike or longer than expected which stuffs up the small window of opportunity to get your one "hit/action" in and then get shield up in time. So I start my "action" whilst orcus is in the middle of his attack animation.

A DC helping out is important if you're not going to need FR after every hit. Not sure if you need to be Tactician to fill your AP bar sufficiently.

Have you got Shield Mastery maxed and all your stamina gain boons? With shield mastery I can keep my shield up (without any encounts etc to fill it) for around 20 secs, throw in the occasional ITF and Tide of Iron and it never runs out.

Use Tide of Iron to fill your stamina and debuff him.

ITF also helps with stamina and is great for helping speed up your encounts etc. to help fit them in between his attacks. I always pop that first.

However, being a SM Tactician and using Steel Defense will make things a hell of a lot easier, you would be immune from damage most of the time . . . .

treesclimber · March 2016

lantern22 said:
Whats you're definition of low IL?

2.2k

No i dont have those boons. I am SM i just had found no way yet to defeat without steel defence and i cant cast FR even if i am very fast because to fil ap usually takes me to 20-30% life and many times is the time between the activation of FR and raise the shield that gets me killed.

grimah · March 2016

Nope, you can do it with fighter's recovery and blocking.

slot shield talent + guarded assault. You should get full AP after 2 maybe 3 blocks (as conqueror).

In between each punch attack you DO have enough time to use your encounters, into the fray, enforced threat. Dont use iron warrior (its too slow). and fighters recovery. Just lower and spam your ability before raising it again after the punch attack. (he follows with a punch after the swipe if i remember right).

Also when he starts casting his spell that gives you some breath space before his aoe attack hits everyone.

I've tanked him multiple times without steel defense. But I am DR capped (80%) and have 140k hp. (his punch takes off around 20% of my health per hit when blocking.)

Using pure plaguefire would help lower his damage too if you have it.

What path are you?

treesclimber · March 2016

grimah said:
Nope, you can do it with fighter's recovery and blocking.

slot shield talent + guarded assault. You should get full AP after 2 maybe 3 blocks (as conqueror).

In between each punch attack you DO have enough time to use your encounters, into the fray, enforced threat. Dont use iron warrior (its too slow). and fighters recovery. Just lower and spam your ability before raising it again after the punch attack. (he follows with a punch after the swipe if i remember right).

Also when he starts casting his spell that gives you some breath space before his aoe attack hits everyone.

I've tanked him multiple times without steel defense. But I am DR capped (80%) and have 140k hp. (his punch takes off around 20% of my health per hit when blocking.)

Using pure plaguefire would help lower his damage too if you have it.

What path are you?

Tatician, and im 10k defence 120k life.

grimah · March 2016

well tactician and conq have the same tanking ability (mitigation wise). You should get full AP after 1, 2 blocks max being a tactician.

If you are not generating enough HP back from fighter's recovery vs what is taken, then your ArP most be too low. But a healer should be enough to keep you up.

treesclimber · March 2016

grimah said:
well tactician and conq have the same tanking ability (mitigation wise). You should get full AP after 1, 2 blocks max being a tactician.

If you are not generating enough HP back from fighter's recovery vs what is taken, then your ArP most be too low. But a healer should be enough to keep you up.

The peoblem is many times i cant hold until it's safe to cast fighters recovery, orcus has 3 successive strikes that gets me very low in hp and at minimum mistake im dead.

zekethesinner · March 2016

treesclimber said:

grimah said:
well tactician and conq have the same tanking ability (mitigation wise). You should get full AP after 1, 2 blocks max being a tactician.

If you are not generating enough HP back from fighter's recovery vs what is taken, then your ArP most be too low. But a healer should be enough to keep you up.
The peoblem is many times i cant hold until it's safe to cast fighters recovery, orcus has 3 successive strikes that gets me very low in hp and at minimum mistake im dead.

What i the healer doing then?

Even righteous one should be able to outheal part of what u r taking.

(Sin)cerely
Kain

evalira · March 2016

lantern22 said:
Hardest thing for me is if the aggravating strike animation goes another strike or longer than expected which stuffs up the small window of opportunity to get your one "hit/action" in and then get shield up in time.

This is one of the most under reported bugs yet one of the most annoying. I get stuck in red areas all the time because of this.

lantern22 said:
Use Tide of Iron to fill your stamina and debuff him.

Same thing as above. I hardly use this at will now thanks to the double animation.

It doesn't happen against test dummies, so I'm thinking it is latency related or something.

But if I die in a dungeon it is usually because of this or the villains menace slow animation delaying steel defense.

treesclimber · March 2016

zekethesinner said:

treesclimber said:

grimah said:
well tactician and conq have the same tanking ability (mitigation wise). You should get full AP after 1, 2 blocks max being a tactician.

If you are not generating enough HP back from fighter's recovery vs what is taken, then your ArP most be too low. But a healer should be enough to keep you up.
The peoblem is many times i cant hold until it's safe to cast fighters recovery, orcus has 3 successive strikes that gets me very low in hp and at minimum mistake im dead.

What i the healer doing then?

Even righteous one should be able to outheal part of what u r taking.

(Sin)cerely
Kain

Most healers dont have time to react, try to run with stats similar to mine and you'll understand. For example, today i did CN the first time with my righteous DC, we made it not because the GF (3.5k conqueror SM) survived but because we had 2 cw's and we did a slow kill astral shield was up whenever the cooldown allowed me to, same thing about bts and the time he died was a one shot from orcus return that apparently passed by guardian sigil blockage and astral shield.

lantern22 · April 2016

Hardest thing is the green spheres, if they spawn behind you, you're stuffed.

Fighters recovery + Guarded Assault is your best friend, I can pretty much keep FR up 100% of the time, in fact probably able to lay 2 or 3 of them over the other (I assume they don't stack). With guarded assault, every hit fills your health

zekethesinner · April 2016

treesclimber said:

zekethesinner said:

treesclimber said:

grimah said:
well tactician and conq have the same tanking ability (mitigation wise). You should get full AP after 1, 2 blocks max being a tactician.

If you are not generating enough HP back from fighter's recovery vs what is taken, then your ArP most be too low. But a healer should be enough to keep you up.
The peoblem is many times i cant hold until it's safe to cast fighters recovery, orcus has 3 successive strikes that gets me very low in hp and at minimum mistake im dead.

What i the healer doing then?

Even righteous one should be able to outheal part of what u r taking.

(Sin)cerely
Kain
Most healers dont have time to react, try to run with stats similar to mine and you'll understand. For example, today i did CN the first time with my righteous DC, we made it not because the GF (3.5k conqueror SM) survived but because we had 2 cw's and we did a slow kill astral shield was up whenever the cooldown allowed me to, same thing about bts and the time he died was a one shot from orcus return that apparently passed by guardian sigil blockage and astral shield.

As healer u r not supposed to react, u r supposed to countermeasure and predict... so u r damn right, AS should be the thing to start with. then also AA between AS, so its sucking in all incoming dmg.

If u want healer take OP, they r perfect, brainless heal totems.

(Sin)cerely
Kain

treesclimber · April 2016

zekethesinner said:

treesclimber said:

zekethesinner said:

treesclimber said:

grimah said:
well tactician and conq have the same tanking ability (mitigation wise). You should get full AP after 1, 2 blocks max being a tactician.

If you are not generating enough HP back from fighter's recovery vs what is taken, then your ArP most be too low. But a healer should be enough to keep you up.
The peoblem is many times i cant hold until it's safe to cast fighters recovery, orcus has 3 successive strikes that gets me very low in hp and at minimum mistake im dead.

What i the healer doing then?

Even righteous one should be able to outheal part of what u r taking.

(Sin)cerely
Kain
Most healers dont have time to react, try to run with stats similar to mine and you'll understand. For example, today i did CN the first time with my righteous DC, we made it not because the GF (3.5k conqueror SM) survived but because we had 2 cw's and we did a slow kill astral shield was up whenever the cooldown allowed me to, same thing about bts and the time he died was a one shot from orcus return that apparently passed by guardian sigil blockage and astral shield.
As healer u r not supposed to react, u r supposed to countermeasure and predict... so u r damn right, AS should be the thing to start with. then also AA between AS, so its sucking in all incoming dmg.

If u want healer take OP, they r perfect, brainless heal totems.

(Sin)cerely
Kain

I dont have AA, but how could i ever be so stupid, Divine armour is a very good replacement, i guess ill start using it in that fase.

zekethesinner · April 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvS27adXV98

I think this is enough to cover whole topic.

Not my video, but well...

(Sin)cerely
Kain

mamalion1234 · April 2016

well yesterday we queue as four in a castle never a gf 2.2 joined from a guild first time i saw i cant remember the name. he tanked orcus like he had steel defence but guess what was iron vanguard. i said that guy is incredible he didnt have incredible defence so seems he didnt belong to a top stronghold guild had 40% dr if remember well.

SOME players understand perfectly the game mechanics the 1st day they join the game or they dont have the time or they chose to stay as they are find it easy .

vinceent1 · April 2016

interesting debate. i was there yesterday for a first time and almost no chance against Orcus with IW conqueror. One time we almost made it but others attempt were bad. i cant have fighters recovery up all time. i am 3,3 IL but main problem is Orcus can one shot through my shield anytime during that encounter and i can do nothing with it.

so only tactics is surround him by tank companions and kill him from distance? looks that way

lantern22 · April 2016

1 shot through shield? lag or bad defence ?

vinceent1 · April 2016

no lag

bad defence? i dont know i have around 50% DR (15000def), but i am IW conq more as pvp speced and when i am already 3,3 IL i cant go much higher. so no steel steel defence and because of conquerer cant spam fighters recovery

i was thinking about that earth archon guy as companion, i he good as others def companions?

treesclimber · April 2016

vinceent1 said:
no lag

bad defence? i dont know i have around 50% DR (15000def), but i am IW conq more as pvp speced and when i am already 3,3 IL i cant go much higher. so no steel steel defence and because of conquerer cant spam fighters recovery

i was thinking about that earth archon guy as companion, i he good as others def companions?

Tank comanions like earth archon and yeti are good if they positionate in a empty are a or you're not playing with other melees, the tank companion steals the aggro from you allowing some stamina gain back and and use of vm if you want.

lantern22 · April 2016

sorry I meant - low defense. Mines around 16K and 60% damage ignored. Some of the other GF's here are Conq specced, but maybe they are SM and get to use steel defense to help regenerate HP.

vinceent1 · April 2016

thats the point. is here any iron warrior conqueror who can handle Orcus consistently?

zekethesinner · April 2016

vinceent1 said:
no lag

bad defence? i dont know i have around 50% DR (15000def), but i am IW conq more as pvp speced and when i am already 3,3 IL i cant go much higher. so no steel steel defence and because of conquerer cant spam fighters recovery

i was thinking about that earth archon guy as companion, i he good as others def companions?

PVP speeced IV... explains much...

That aside, u still can go easly for 80% DR,a nd i movie i posted a couple posts before there is 3.3k IV tanking orcus without healer, what excuse u have next to debunk?

R u purposely ignoring my post? Selective eyes maybe?

(Sin)cerely
Kain

vinceent1 · April 2016

OMG Kain trolling me hard. i dont deserve it from legit mate

1. I probably can make awesome team from my guildies (not legit), but this dung is not meant as elite only content, so your video is misleading and dont deserve attention, sorry. I can post a video too with one of my attempts, where Orcus were almost dead, its not problem, i am looking for a way to handle him consistently
2. WHOLE GF class is meant as TANK, there should be a way to tank everything with any GF tree. Maybe i just dont figure out what to do as IW Conq yet and next week i will post - "i figure out". But now i use forum for advices and feedback
3. I know class, but just dont want to change my character from the ground because of one boss (at least before i exhaust every other possibilities)

hypervoreian · April 2016

I wish i could help, @vinceent1 .

but most of us changed to SM path when mod6 hit live.

It is really difficult to tank orcus as an IV.I am SM but his first hit (finger) takes away 50% of my health.but with FR and steel defense i will pop FR ,attack and refill my bar.With an IV it can be done ,but you must have far better timing than an SM.And only aggravating strike could be used rather safely cause you do not have the immunity to leave block ,even for a sec.

My only advice

is to tell you what we use the SMs and just to hope that your Hp pool and defense ,plus timing will somehow offfset the disadvantage of SD luck of.

Shield talent ,shield defense features.You could use Desperate Survival instead of defense?you could try this or Ferocious reaction.
But not both ,you will need all your stamina/guard.Shield talent stays guaranteed.

We use ITF and KV for granted .One encounter left is a matter of choise.Some go for Enforced Threat,others use other powers.Tacts especially use GWrath for the crushing pin buff.

You could scrap KV aswell in the final orcus fight.Go for (blank) ,ITF ,and a fast power.A hiiting one is preferrable cause you will need allt he healing and if you have some lifesteal,it might help.

---------------------------

in any case:
immediately after starting fight press esc to cut scene.
Tab mark,but don't do anything else,you must gain aggro quickly.Approach with shield raised.Most GFs die in the start cause Orcus casts its power very fast and can get you in a surprise or lag might plays a bad game for you.

As soon you reach hit distance start aggravating strike.
When he will hit you pop FR,and start agg strike again.Do not try to use any other power ,even ITF.When you see an openin to his attacks ,hit with tide of Iron to replenish your block pool.

When he opens his wings you have 2 secs to use itf and tide.if you manage to survive his first phase battle boss,then by 95% you will finish it.

If he spawns the balls ,you are in deep trouble.

retreat and your teamates should be ready to retreat aswell.Anyone that stays in melee distance he would be hit.(GWFs)

When the balls leave approach and rise repeat.

With a big Hp pool ,good stamina and good defense and with a good healer and good timing you can do it.

Wish you the best and good luck.

vinceent1 · April 2016

i am actually interesting about cleave changes. i always wanted to have threatening rush, but if new cleave (faster, cone area) can somehow replace it for me, i can respec to swordmaster without hesitation and ease many problems i suffer.

for orcus - i already buy epic def companion a when others have them too it could easy whole thing, if they can agrroing and staying alive. everything else like clean tanking whole the time just seems like too risky for now and not worth the pain if you think about rewards

steampunchs · April 2016

I use guarded assault+steel defense with my conquerer sm when i got hit my ap gets full then i use itf and commanders strike then up my shield.And i can suggest lathanders dew for ap gen . But if respec isnt for you then try guarded assault + shield talent and lathanders pot . Devoted sigil helps too for the ap you lack .
Party wont benefit from you, if they re all ranged or even they all are melee doesnt matter cause you wont be needed for tanking rangeds.You wont grant no buff because you lose itf because you cant stay alive if u cast it. i highly suggest you switch to sm

IV vs Orcus

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