Bonding vs Augment

darthtzarr · March 2016

For a dps class, which will net higher dps? It seems like Bonding is stronger, but at what point? Does Bonding only become stronger at Bonding rank 10+...

I am trying to figure out a good companion, but can't decide between Warlock and Ioun Stone.

frozenfirevr · March 2016

From normal versions (R8), bondings are decent. If you have R9s and above bonding runes are the way to go.

santralafax · March 2016

I had been hearing, from multiple sources, that bondings overtook augments at R10.

umsche · March 2016

Depending on your pet bonding runestones can be better at r8-9.
And if you are going to ditch your augment at one point, what's the point in buying one ?

For a dps class, blink dog is almost as good as zhent warlock but doesn't cost as much and doesn't have a useless active bonus.

darthtzarr · March 2016

I currently have a Dancing Blade, which I was going to use the Bonding Stones on until I got a warlock, assuming I was going with Bonding... If I am going with Augment, I will just skip Bonding, and buy the Ioun. But it sounds more like it is Bonding time!!

oldbaldyone · March 2016

If you can't afford rank 10 or higher bonding runestones, the augment is probably a better choice. After you get to rank 10-11-12 bonding stones you are going to get a better return from an active companion.

If you want to try and get more than 3 bonding stacks at once, you need a pet that shoots fast and then dies fast, because the cooldown resets on the pets death (Working as intended as far as we know). One of the few cases in which upgrading a pet is actually bad. If you are comfortable with 2-3 stacks, then the pet doesn't matter as much. People typically go for fast attack pets so that they get all 3 stacks right away for the longest period of time. In most cases, once the buff wears off, the target is dead anyways so it doesn't matter.

Zhen Warlock, Mercenary, Lightfoot Thief, Blink Dog, Fire Archon are all good fast attacking pets that do fine with bonding stones. Shadow Demon is probably the best DPS pet out there, as it hits in the 100k-200k range fairly often, suvives decently and procs the stones well enough.

darthtzarr · March 2016

Dancing Blade has a 1s cooldown, and dies extremely often... is it not a good Bonding companion?

jhpnw · March 2016

dancing blade works for me.It was better with 3 different stone now have 2 rank 12 1 rank 10. now it procts 10 and 12 right away instead of 10 11 12 right away but has 2 12 and1 10 after around 6 seconds. It goes straight to the fight. In WOD dies a lot in HES I can have 3 12 stacks and 2 10 stacks same time. its the crit ser bonus why I use it for my HR companion it did well enough with 3 10s that I sold the Light foot thief I got from SC runs for enough to get 2 rank 12 bonding

schietindebux · March 2016

santralafax said:
I had been hearing, from multiple sources, that bondings overtook augments at R10.

that´s what I would say too, below rank10 my augment did better, at 3x rank10 the companion is superior.
Best augment imo is the "allure" with one defense slot, because you get a fix statbonus putting the right enchant inside.

lirithiel · March 2016

schietindebux said:

santralafax said:
I had been hearing, from multiple sources, that bondings overtook augments at R10.
that´s what I would say too, below rank10 my augment did better, at 3x rank10 the companion is superior.
Best augment imo is the "allure" with one defense slot, because you get a fix statbonus putting the right enchant inside.

But Allure has one of the worst active bonuses non-stats wise. I wish I had never bought one each for my 2 HRs :c Radiance has Deflect and Lifesteal but the 3 offensive slots make up for that. My personal choice is Might though.

I currently have 6 Greater Bonding runestones, which will become 3 Perfects when I get my hands on the GMoPs. Hopefully this weekend

My archer will probably stick with augment, while the other HR will get the Perfect Bondings.

wildfirede · March 2016

defensive sockets are not that bad, eldritch works wonders, 3* loyal items + r12 stone *0.1 is not bad.

kvet · March 2016

I typically use an augment (black dragon stone) and I slot bonding stones in it. You don't get the special combat enhancement from them, but they give you better power stat boots than Empowered runes (a lot better). If you aren't looking to boost power, my first question would be... why? Before you flame me, I know there are lots of valid reasons why one would prefer to use an augments enchantment slots for something other than power, but my reason for asking is mostly PvP related: those stats vanish when you enter PvP.......... which is why I always suggest sticking to power there since it's sort of the slush-fund of stats. You can use your gear to boost your other important stats (arpen, crit, recover, def, etc...) since those stats stick around in PvP and in many cases - arpen in particular, need to be carried over into the fight.

All that said... The last I paid attention to this, the Zhent Warlock at max level with 3 R12 Bonding Stones is considered BiS for DPS. (yes, even above and beyond Augments).

Now that companions aren't just one-shot and done in every fight within seconds, I've been thinking about unpacking one of my Zhents and using it instead of an augment. I'm just old school and am still in the habit of never using a combat pet... probably time I start branching out. Jeeze... next thing you know I'm going to start ordering something other than the chili relleno at the Mexican joint we go to all the time.... Pretty sure I haven't even looked at the menu there in about 3 years.

silverkelt · March 2016

Type % of stats 2 stacks 3 stacks
Greater 50% 100 150
Perfect 65% 130 195
R11 80% 160 240
r12 95% 190 285

In theory, 3 greaters.. will give you a better return, in addition, you might only get 2 stacks with mob packs, but are virtually gauranteed to float 3.. on bosses, making it far superior to augments.. even legendary ones.

In practice.. I would say having 1 perfect and 2 greater's, is a better starting point for having stones.

plasticbat · March 2016

These days, augment is for budget build for easy management and lower cost.
I don't slot power because I slot crit. Based on certain calculation (not sure if I believe it), to optimize it, my character has too much power but not enough crit. You don't even need 3 R12 bonding on Z.Warlock to overpower augment setting.

kvet · March 2016

I only have 3 Greaters anyway - but I guess I really should give the Zhent a try. blah. Probably need to acquire new companion gear since my dragon stone is all rings. *shrug* #firstworldproblem

mercedesman · March 2016

I had a Zhent and then changed to a Shadow Demon on my GWF. This guy is amazing... I have R12 bondings in him and I have to dismiss him in TOD or he will kill the hulks. He alone will add about 5mil to my pain giver score in eCC. The Zhent does proc quick, but I have had no issue with the results I get from the Shadow Demon. While at 4K I don't need much help, it is nice to have fighting pet that actually causes damage and ranges on his own to kill mobs. Just my 2 cents.

darthtzarr · March 2016

Is the reason the 10-11-12 is better because each different rank is allowed to stack 3 times? Meaning in a long fight, your could get 3 stacks of 10, 3 stacks of 11, and 3 stacks of 12? This would line up similarly to how Weapon Enchants work (Trans, Pure, and Perfect stacking)

Unknown · March 2016

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urabask · March 2016

darthtzarr said:
Is the reason the 10-11-12 is better because each different rank is allowed to stack 3 times? Meaning in a long fight, your could get 3 stacks of 10, 3 stacks of 11, and 3 stacks of 12? This would line up similarly to how Weapon Enchants work (Trans, Pure, and Perfect stacking)

It's because they supposedly proc more often when you have different ranks so even though three rank 12s give more stats with 3 stacks up there are more gaps so the difference between 10-11-12 and 12-12-12 is less pronounced than it seems like it should be.

mirlegris · March 2016

Depending of your pet.

Augment is the cheapest option. A Goat+Eldritch R9x2+Empowered R9+Power/Crit/Arp gear+R8 enchants, and you have a permanent +2500 Power and Crit for less than 500K.

But. If you have diamonds.. A Shadow Demon with Bondings 9/9/9 + Power/Crit/Arp gear + R8 enchants can give you something like +5000 Power and Crit, often.

Sure, the buff isn't permanent and it's an expansive way, but the pet himself can do a lot of damages ( mine do 8Millions alone in a standard CN run ).

Unknown · March 2016

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adinosii · March 2016

I have heard the Shadow Demon is considered the "best" companion for DPS classes but what about other classes?

I'm an augment-using buff/debuff DC. I have zero problems with any of the solo content, so switching to a summoned companion (and I have plenty of those..I even have the "Squad Leader" title for 50+ companions) is not worth it for that purpose. So the issue is my usefulness in groups, where my role is not to tank or heal or get high DPS but rather to help the DPSers melt the enemies much faster.

Maybe I am missing something but I don't really see how a summoned companion could help me do my primary task significantly better.

So, am I missing anything?

blinxon · March 2016

adinosii said:
I have heard the Shadow Demon is considered the "best" companion for DPS

Nop...in my opinion lightfoot and zhentarim warlock are better. Both give you a bit faster the gifts. Shadowdemon can only deal a lot damage in a CN run if the grp isnt strong enough and takes a while to kill trash/bosses.
But shadowdemon is not so expansive as warlock/thief.

Unknown · March 2016

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rayrdan · March 2016

defiantone99 said:
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Priestess_of_Sehanine_Moonbow This is probably best for sole supporters.

mmm i dont know those cooldowns are very very high

qexotic · March 2016

blinxon said:

adinosii said:
I have heard the Shadow Demon is considered the "best" companion for DPS
Nop...in my opinion lightfoot and zhentarim warlock are better. Both give you a bit faster the gifts. Shadowdemon can only deal a lot damage in a CN run if the grp isnt strong enough and takes a while to kill trash/bosses.
But shadowdemon is not so expansive as warlock/thief.

Where are you picking up the Shadow Demon for less than a Zhentarim Warlock ? Current AH prices are: Shadow Demon (Green) = 698-800k AD, Zhentarim Warlock (Blue) = 335-450k (plus a few optimists asking 1.3-2.0 Million

). No argument over the cost of the Litefoot Thief at 1.6 Million and upwards of course.

Personally, I'm happy with the Sylph I have on my CW and Zhentarim on my HR. I would have the Sylph on both but I prefer a bit of variety. Both perform equally well but the Sylph is cuter and more entertaining to have around. The Zentarim is great to watch in a fight expecially once she starts hitting things with that green eldritch fire. Between fights she is pretty dull just standing around wagging her tail. Both could have a Drow Mercenary but he isn't even interesting to watch in a fight, so he is left in the idle zone. Oh, and I'm currently leveling a SW and she has a Wayward Wizard as her summoned companion. Variety is the spice of life and in NWO it is what keeps the game interesting to play. My SW is at lvl 52 and hasn't died once so far, so she hasn't lodged a complaint about the companion she had been given >:)

When I am the mood for more variety, my HR has a Cat augment who is slightly more entertaining than a blue stone revolving around my head. I have a Doohickey to fulfill that role

blinxon · March 2016

Huh? Last time i searched the zhentarim was much higher...mmmhh...well if its so, than take the warlock.

oldbaldyone · March 2016

I really can't imagine that the difference would be that major between most of the companions...unless its a tank companion or something. Anything that has a decent attack rate will do fine for most people. Even the Renegade guy that you can unlock account wide (Invoker I think?) does a fair job.

If you are looking to maximize results some seem to work better than others, but the difference is probably only a concern to those who are min/maxing.

That said, a Blue+ Drow Mercenary looks really cool!

mirlegris · March 2016

arcofortep12 said:
Why Eldritch in defensive slots if the augment transfer directly its stats?

Green/Blue/Epic Augment = transfer 100% of his stats to you.

Augment + 1 Eldritch 10 = transfer 110% of his stats to you.

So, if you don't need defensives stats, a little more % of offensives stats is better, no ?

In the goat exemple, 2x Eldritch R9 with Goat = 119% of his stats transfered. Small, but better than nothing.

blinxon said:

Nop...in my opinion lightfoot and zhentarim warlock are better. Both give you a bit faster the gifts. Shadowdemon can only deal a lot damage in a CN run if the grp isnt strong enough and takes a while to kill trash/bosses.
But shadowdemon is not so expansive as warlock/thief.

1s to benefit of 3 stacks, yeah, very less effective than Zenth or Thief...

Zhent ( cheaper ) and Thief ( who is more expansive ) have 1 Defensive slot. Shadow Demon have 3 offensive slots.

There are all goods, it depend just of your class and build.

I prefer +560 Power than +560 Def, and, as a TR, the active bonus of SD is better than a bonus who don' work ( thief) and than +165 in Power and Recovery. My ITC is now like a short Bubble.

adinosii said:
I have heard the Shadow Demon is considered the "best" companion for DPS classes but what about other classes?

I'm an augment-using buff/debuff DC. I have zero problems with any of the solo content, so switching to a summoned companion (and I have plenty of those..I even have the "Squad Leader" title for 50+ companions) is not worth it for that purpose. So the issue is my usefulness in groups, where my role is not to tank or heal or get high DPS but rather to help the DPSers melt the enemies much faster.

Maybe I am missing something but I don't really see how a summoned companion could help me do my primary task significantly better.

So, am I missing anything?

Very specific. Maybe the Kelemvor for DR and LS buffs ? Very good and interesting question, that need tests. I like tests.

wildfirede · March 2016

or a rust monster for another debuff on the boss + more stats than a augment to you via bondings

adinosii · March 2016

I do have a (purple) Rust monster already and was actually thinking of getting that to legendary status, as it is the one companion I have that I am least likely to drop. No matter what I end up with as my summoned companion the legendary bonus would always apply.

Bonding vs Augment

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