I am a PVE player since May 2013 and did some PVP for fun until they introduced pvp gear. Since then nothing will bring me to pvp and if you put IWD demon HEs in the open world pvp areas I will not go there. No matter the rewards, I will never go there and I am quite sure many other PVE players wouldn't do that either. Don't try to force players to do something they would rather not do just so a few players can complete some boons? Just as with stronghold pvp you had to be one of those players that finished the tasks in the first 2 weeks, because after that no one wanted to play that content any more.
If you want to finish your boons, just ask some of your friends to let themselves kill 100 times in IWD pvp areas and get it over with. No need to to force others to be cannon fodder in the least liked part of this game. Btw, you should have made the title "state of pvp" as that is your main points and over 80% of your opening post.
I have a poll going to remove tenacity from gear and add it to character sheet to remove the tenacity gap. My suggestions don't "force" anyone to go into the PVP zones they simply give rewards if you decide to do so.
As for asking my friends to die 100 times, they are too busy completing SH tasks to build our guild SH or complete CN to get insignias, will you come to IWP and let me kill you? No? Likely for the same reasons I wouldn't ask them.
Thirdly, I addressed different areas of PVE and PVP, they are both aspects of the same game, if you don't like that take it up with the games' creators as it was their decision to have elements of all. I don't cry at you for PVE, don't cry at me for PVP.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
There is no salt here. I have even said that all gameplay styles are lacking and need improvement. So, yes, that includes PVP. Ive actually been trying to be all inclusive because this argument goes beyond PVP. And I feel the arguments are the same regardless of what form of gameplay you choose to focus on.
Put simply, you wont get people to enjoy a thing by forcing it on then. Moving content from one player style to another will only cause resentment.
PvP is riddled with problems that make it ridiculously unfun and punishing for non-super hardcore PvPers.
1) The gear gap is just to big. If you're not BiS, you're dead meat with no chance to compete.
2) The class balance sucks. Half the classes in this game are more or less second-class citizens in PvP with little to no chance to compete against the other classes. Combined with #1, it makes PvP even less fun.
3) The PvP community itself is extremely toxic. Even for those brave enough to wade into it, it won't be long before you're receiving tells from people about how much you suck, how you should quit the game, or all the interesting things they did to your mom last night. I only wish I was exaggerating here...
Top all that off with things like Domination, GG or SH Seige being dominated by guilds who have zero interest in actually making things competitive for anything below BiS, and you give your average player literally no reason to PvP, no matter how attractive you make the rewards.
Interestingly in the last 3 forum posts I have written they are all about trying to boost up newer potential PVP players to a more level playing ground with PVPers. Class balance, rings, drains, and broken enchants, tenacity for free for all players. Yet all I get from many posters is negativity.
You talk about toxicity, it's not just from PVPers. PVEers can be just as vile and toxic... I've been trash talked in Epic Demo for missing aiming the Gorristro as badly or worse than I have in PVP when I kill an undergeared player.
You talk about toxicity when I come to the forums and get lambasted for trying to find solutions to imbalances and problems constructively.
This is one of the most biased statements I've read from a community moderator yet. Should I simply stop trying to come up with potential work arounds or fixes for what I see in the game that needs to be addressed?
Should I simply never post about PVP again? I'm disappointed that all I get from a moderator is that we should simply give up on PVP all together. Perhaps it's too late if even those who moderate are simply throwing their hands up and saying it's all screwed let's just forget about it.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
There is no salt here. I have even said that all gameplay styles are lacking and need improvement. So, yes, that includes PVP. Ive actually been trying to be all inclusive because this argument goes beyond PVP. And I feel the arguments are the same regardless of what form of gameplay you choose to focus on.
Put simply, you wont get people to enjoy a thing by forcing it on then. Moving content from one player style to another will only cause resentment.
Which is how we felt with Stronghold, I tried to state this and you went all preachy on me about PVE. It was salty when I was trying to explain that both sides feel this "push" and it's not enjoyable for either side. If you look at the overall discussion though, and combine it with my other forum posts you'll see the bigger picture that I'd like to see PVP overall become more balanced and less lop sided and I don't want to "force" anything on anyone but try to include appropriate incentives in combination with rewards and gear gap closers to make it fun again.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Interestingly in the last 3 forum posts I have written they are all about trying to boost up newer potential PVP players to a more level playing ground with PVPers. Class balance, rings, drains, and broken enchants, tenacity for free for all players. Yet all I get from many posters is negativity.
You talk about toxicity, it's not just from PVPers. PVEers can be just as vile and toxic... I've been trash talked in Epic Demo for missing aiming the Gorristro as badly or worse than I have in PVP when I kill an undergeared player.
You talk about toxicity when I come to the forums and get lambasted for trying to find solutions to imbalances and problems constructively.
This is one of the most biased statements I've read from a community moderator yet. Should I simply stop trying to come up with potential work arounds or fixes for what I see in the game that needs to be addressed?
Should I simply never post about PVP again? I'm disappointed that all I get from a moderator is that we should simply give up on PVP all together. Perhaps it's too late if even those who moderate are simply throwing their hands up and saying it's all screwed let's just forget about it.
Thanks for your reply.
Well it would be nice if our community manager relayed these concerns to developers and then actually told us what they think or plan or why they are not doing x y and z. Some transparency would be nice.
But right now, all of this feedback and suggestions is like pissing into the wind.
Interestingly in the last 3 forum posts I have written they are all about trying to boost up newer potential PVP players to a more level playing ground with PVPers. Class balance, rings, drains, and broken enchants, tenacity for free for all players. Yet all I get from many posters is negativity.
You talk about toxicity, it's not just from PVPers. PVEers can be just as vile and toxic... I've been trash talked in Epic Demo for missing aiming the Gorristro as badly or worse than I have in PVP when I kill an undergeared player.
You talk about toxicity when I come to the forums and get lambasted for trying to find solutions to imbalances and problems constructively.
This is one of the most biased statements I've read from a community moderator yet. Should I simply stop trying to come up with potential work arounds or fixes for what I see in the game that needs to be addressed?
Should I simply never post about PVP again? I'm disappointed that all I get from a moderator is that we should simply give up on PVP all together. Perhaps it's too late if even those who moderate are simply throwing their hands up and saying it's all screwed let's just forget about it.
Thanks for your reply.
Well it would be nice if our community manager relayed these concerns to developers and then actually told us what they think or plan or why they are not doing x y and z. Some transparency would be nice.
But right now, all of this feedback and suggestions is like pissing into the wind.
I have actually seen some of the issues brought up by myself, and other forum posters be addressed relatively quickly and sometimes in exactly the ways it was suggested. I have even seen the devs pop in and comment on fixes they were working on or whether something was on their radar.
Simply put, the reason I keep posting here is that some of this feedback does get listened to and all I can hope to do is share some insight on issues I see that need addressed and hope that they get picked up by the devs and given some consideration. If that is pissing in the wind, then I will continue to be covered in my own urine until they stop paying any attention to these forums at all.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
I don't cry at you for PVE, don't cry at me for PVP.
Exactly what I came to love from PVP players
I don't cry at you for PVP, I just don't do it. So for me the idea of making (=forcing) me do it if I want to do HEs in IWD is terrible. You say you don't ask your friends to let you kill them in IWD, so don't ask that other players do that.
If pvp was an aspect of the game like pve was, why is it that you have to go to different zones to do it and it even has its own campaign? In my opinion its more like a parallel universe to the main part of the game, but most times when classes get nerfed or mechanics get changed its because some pvp players cried long enough over some imbalance they perceived in their part of the game. You are doing the same, crying over how pvp players can not get enough kills for the pvp campaign. I wish for pvp to get better in this game, but please without impact on the pve part.
I don't cry at you for PVE, don't cry at me for PVP.
Exactly what I came to love from PVP players
I don't cry at you for PVP, I just don't do it. So for me the idea of making (=forcing) me do it if I want to do HEs in IWD is terrible. You say you don't ask your friends to let you kill them in IWD, so don't ask that other players do that.
If pvp was an aspect of the game like pve was, why is it that you have to go to different zones to do it and it even has its own campaign? In my opinion its more like a parallel universe to the main part of the game, but most times when classes get nerfed or mechanics get changed its because some pvp players cried long enough over some imbalance they perceived in their part of the game. You are doing the same, crying over how pvp players can not get enough kills for the pvp campaign. I wish for pvp to get better in this game, but please without impact on the pve part.
I never insisted that they take the HE's out of other areas, just that they move some to the PVP zones. You, like so many PVEers, have a knee jerk reaction to anyone from the PVP community trying to positively affect what they enjoy in the game. You read into things what you want. You jump to conclusions that belie your underlying prejudice.
I would like the PVP zones to have more competition. I won 2 black ice dominations by myself just yesterday because I was one of two people there. There is obviously something wrong when these events are unannounced. I suggested that it could be corrected if announced as more PVPers (that's right PVPers vs PVPers) would come to the zone to fight each other. I also suggested that contested mobs (as exist in many other MMOs) may be fun as there would likely be an equal number of PVEers and PVPers on either side and all could get PVP kills (you could actually swarm those dreaded PVPers you hate so much and corpse hump them to relieve some of your pent up frustration with the PVP community) and also gain PVE rewards while doing it.
If you are blaming my post for being the catalyst for every PVE change that came from the PVP community I am flattered but I think you give me too much credit.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
There is no salt here. I have even said that all gameplay styles are lacking and need improvement. So, yes, that includes PVP. Ive actually been trying to be all inclusive because this argument goes beyond PVP. And I feel the arguments are the same regardless of what form of gameplay you choose to focus on.
Put simply, you wont get people to enjoy a thing by forcing it on then. Moving content from one player style to another will only cause resentment.
Which is how we felt with Stronghold, I tried to state this and you went all preachy on me about PVE. It was salty when I was trying to explain that both sides feel this "push" and it's not enjoyable for either side. If you look at the overall discussion though, and combine it with my other forum posts you'll see the bigger picture that I'd like to see PVP overall become more balanced and less lop sided and I don't want to "force" anything on anyone but try to include appropriate incentives in combination with rewards and gear gap closers to make it fun again.
You keep trying to twist the issue. I have been trying to argue a need to support and increase the options within the larger meta, in this case PVE. It is a PVE centric game, it is the larger meta. All of the other game play styles, including PVP are options within this meta. You really need to stop trying to compare the options to the meta, it skews the argument and is a distraction. Strongholds, for example, was a nod to guilds and play styles that enjoy that content. And included both PVE and PVP. As I have tried to point out, there are far more play styles then just PVP and PVE. And while I'm not a guild player, I can agree guild content was lacking up to this point. Options within the larger meta. Currently there are very few, and they are unfulfilling. I don't actually have to state them all, I think we can agree regardless of play style preferred, options are lacking across the entire spectrum.
And I agree with you PVP needs fixing. It was all but stated when I said all game play options are woefully under supported. For the record, all, includes PVP. Normally I wouldn't need to point that out but you seem to be intentionally missing it.
So really the only point we seem to disagree on, is moving the demon HEs to PVP zones. You feel this is an enticement, I disagree. You feel this isn't forced, I also disagree. Moving content that people are already playing and relying on for progress will force them to adjust to the move. Nothing positive can come from it. Regardless of how you wish to twist it, that is the crux of the issue. Taking content away from one group to support another. Removing IWD Heroics and moving them to PVP areas is exactly that.
I think the people jumping negatively on this post are really not considering what the OP is saying. Everything listed would benefit the entire community in a positive way. As someone who has seen every aspect of the game; I started in one of the largest roleplaying guilds, am a 'completionist' when it comes to PVE, have created and spent many happy hours in the foundry and am now at home in a large pvp guild, I am fully in support of changes to be made as suggested in the original post.
On the recurring issues of the HE's in pvp zones;
Why can't Demon HE's spawn in the pvp zone and also out of it? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't pvp'ers have HE's in their zone too?
As a pvp DC, it annoys the HAMSTER out of me that I am flagged and then can't 'heal' at a HE, because everyone else is unflagged. And by having HE's spawn in and out of the pvp zone, it gives people the option to fight in or not. YOU HAVE A CHOICE. You DON'T have to go in there. Just stick to the HE's outside of the pvp area. The PVP area is dead except for the occasional IWD Domi and then... it's always pot luck if you run into it. THIS is what the original post was saying.
Some PVE'rs will fight in it PVP zone HE's. And guess what, if they are lucky enough to have a DC/Pally from a pvp guild on their faction - they are going to be moderately protected. It's not all doom and gloom if you actually THINK about it.
Why are we so easy to take the negative stance on the original posts suggestion?
"Here's a circle... I'm not sure it's a real circle, so don't trust it too much!" Idril (AoGlyph)
There is no salt here. I have even said that all gameplay styles are lacking and need improvement. So, yes, that includes PVP. Ive actually been trying to be all inclusive because this argument goes beyond PVP. And I feel the arguments are the same regardless of what form of gameplay you choose to focus on.
Put simply, you wont get people to enjoy a thing by forcing it on then. Moving content from one player style to another will only cause resentment.
Which is how we felt with Stronghold, I tried to state this and you went all preachy on me about PVE. It was salty when I was trying to explain that both sides feel this "push" and it's not enjoyable for either side. If you look at the overall discussion though, and combine it with my other forum posts you'll see the bigger picture that I'd like to see PVP overall become more balanced and less lop sided and I don't want to "force" anything on anyone but try to include appropriate incentives in combination with rewards and gear gap closers to make it fun again.
You keep trying to twist the issue. I have been trying to argue a need to support and increase the options within the larger meta, in this case PVE. It is a PVE centric game, it is the larger meta. All of the other game play styles, including PVP are options within this meta. You really need to stop trying to compare the options to the meta, it skews the argument and is a distraction. Strongholds, for example, was a nod to guilds and play styles that enjoy that content. And included both PVE and PVP. As I have tried to point out, there are far more play styles then just PVP and PVE. And while I'm not a guild player, I can agree guild content was lacking up to this point. Options within the larger meta. Currently there are very few, and they are unfulfilling. I don't actually have to state them all, I think we can agree regardless of play style preferred, options are lacking across the entire spectrum.
And I agree with you PVP needs fixing. It was all but stated when I said all game play options are woefully under supported. For the record, all, includes PVP. Normally I wouldn't need to point that out but you seem to be intentionally missing it.
So really the only point we seem to disagree on, is moving the demon HEs to PVP zones. You feel this is an enticement, I disagree. You feel this isn't forced, I also disagree. Moving content that people are already playing and relying on for progress will force them to adjust to the move. Nothing positive can come from it. Regardless of how you wish to twist it, that is the crux of the issue. Taking content away from one group to support another. Removing IWD Heroics and moving them to PVP areas is exactly that.
"1) Place the demonic fights inside PVP zones so that they become "contested" mobs. I.E. your side has to fight to win the loot which then gives it an interesting flair different than just doing PVE, it becomes a mixture." Did I say remove them from the rest of the zone? Please, show me where I said remove them from other areas? I have tried telling you this multiple times but you still seem unable to comprehend.
Secondarily I am not twisting any issue. There is no larger meta, there are aspects, this game is an MMO centric game. Inside that "meta" is PVE, PVP, RP, and Foundry. These were originally equal parts of a greater whole. It is you who keeps trying to twist it so that PVE is the main focus and everything else is secondary.
I could take it a step further and say that when you reach end game, PVE flips roles and becomes completely non challenging so, in essence PVP is THE end game.
That said, I do agree that there are many areas in every aspect of the game that could be improved and I would like to see every element of the game improve, I just get tired of fighting against the divide. I am not factional, I do not prefer only PVPers opinions to PVEers but I find that it's difficult to discuss things when people instantly talk negatively about any opinion that end game PVPers may have about the game.
Thanks for your time.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Why can't Demon HE's spawn in the pvp zone and also out of it? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't pvp'ers have HE's in their zone too?
I would have no issue with it, if it was worded that way from the start. If that was the OPs intention, then it was worded poorly.
I think he may have accidentally added one extra word, perhaps if it was stated; "1) Place demonic fights inside PVP zones..." instead of "1) Place the demonic fights inside PVP zones...." you would have had an easier time with the whole idea. Is that what you're saying?
Perhaps if you actually comprehended the content beforehand where he had explained that the pvp area is a dead zone, this would have made more sense? I don't know. I think people are far too quick to say 'NO!' in here.
"Here's a circle... I'm not sure it's a real circle, so don't trust it too much!" Idril (AoGlyph)
Secondarily I am not twisting any issue. There is no larger meta, there are aspects, this game is an MMO centric game. Inside that "meta" is PVE, PVP, RP, and Foundry. These were originally equal parts of a greater whole. It is you who keeps trying to twist it so that PVE is the main focus and everything else is secondary.
I could take it a step further and say that when you reach end game, PVE flips roles and becomes completely non challenging so, in essence PVP is THE end game.
It's fairly obvious what the meta here is. You can remove PVP and still be left with a functional game. We can argue and debate the details of whats left, or how populated or enjoyable it might be. But it would still be a functional game. Try to remove PVE and you are left with a small handful of maps and little else. PVP is not enough of the game to stand on its own and can be removed without greatly altering the main meta.
Now before the knee jerk reactions, I'm not advocating removing anything from the game. Nor will I argue if the game will remain marketable or profitable with PVP, or anything else, removed. I'm simply illustrating that the one part of the game that can not be removed is its PVE aspects, everything else is optional. Making PVE the meta. So while I would love to see more attention paid to many of the games neglected aspects. We have limped along now without several of them for a long time now.
lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Both @tolkienbuff and @sockmunkey have a point in that the only real end-game is pvp and that the meta is pve. In the last year or so there has been little incentive for pve players to progress due to a complete lack of challenge, which you will only find in pvp, where progress never seems to stop. Sadly, numerous bone-headed decisions from the powers-that-be totally ruined the pvp experience, leaving the elite guilds to roam unchecked.
I starting playing in Mod 2 and spent more time doing pvp than pve. I enjoyed pvp in Mods 2 and 3, which was the closest we had to balance bar a few minor problems here and there. Things went south from Mod 4 and has progressively got worse to the point where it is almost unplayable in its current state. Don't get me wrong, pve hasn't been all sunshine and roses during that time, with Mod 6 bringing a shitstorm that we are still trying to recover from.
Fact of the matter is, there is very little challenge for both pve and pvp players for various reasons and THAT needs to change.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
People don't like PVP for various reasons. A major reason is that we are not queued by Item Level. If we were, people might have a reasonable expectation that it would be fair. It would be more of a measure of skill vs. who has higher IL, better gear, and higher rank enchantments. Also, PVP matches could have actual scenarios with goals that players must accomplish while fighting each other. Killing each other for ten minutes over and over is unimaginative and boring. PVP should be about fair competition, a measure of skill, not who's been playing longer, is higher level, has better gear, or paid more. Why does no MMORPG seem to understand this?
I'm well aware of the reasons PVEers don't like PVP. I try to help address some of them by giving feedback about balancing in my posts. I don't mind people stating that they don't want to PVP or don't like PVP but I don't care for those who don't like PVPers... there's a huge difference.
Secondarily I am not twisting any issue. There is no larger meta, there are aspects, this game is an MMO centric game. Inside that "meta" is PVE, PVP, RP, and Foundry. These were originally equal parts of a greater whole. It is you who keeps trying to twist it so that PVE is the main focus and everything else is secondary.
I could take it a step further and say that when you reach end game, PVE flips roles and becomes completely non challenging so, in essence PVP is THE end game.
It's fairly obvious what the meta here is. You can remove PVP and still be left with a functional game. We can argue and debate the details of whats left, or how populated or enjoyable it might be. But it would still be a functional game. Try to remove PVE and you are left with a small handful of maps and little else. PVP is not enough of the game to stand on its own and can be removed without greatly altering the main meta.
Now before the knee jerk reactions, I'm not advocating removing anything from the game. Nor will I argue if the game will remain marketable or profitable with PVP, or anything else, removed. I'm simply illustrating that the one part of the game that can not be removed is its PVE aspects, everything else is optional. Making PVE the meta. So while I would love to see more attention paid to many of the games neglected aspects. We have limped along now without several of them for a long time now.
That's what you're going with? If you take out PVP there's still a game, thus PVE is the meta. Really. Well man, I can't argue with this kind of logic. They built an entire module around stronghold and created a MOBA based off it and PVE is the meta. Wow, you're not biased at all.
Thanks for your enlightening reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
[oathbound paladin original poster's original post ;D]
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
Rob, Thanks for the letter but all classes need review, especially the overly powerful GWF. It is absurd that a typical GWF that I out gear score by 400 or so will almost triple the damage output of my CW. I expect the work I put into my character, not the class I chose, to be the deciding factor in the power output of my character.
I been playing this game since it started on xbox and I must say it is going down hill. Unless you are willing to spend money it is hard too hard to catch up with those that have maxed out there characters early. Now as people are slowing gaining AD the market is shooting up. There is no way the market can jump from 116 to 300 in less then a month with less people playing and less options to gain AD. Adding wards to the trade market was a big bonus that never got added. It is almost impossible to improve your character by grinding. Everytime we get close a new area is added, but the old problem are never fixed. We are not the PC, we cant bot AD like them. We need a chance to be as big as PC but we cant jump all the phases.
I dont how PVP is but NON-PVP needs alot of work.
Warlocks should be high DPS but they suck so bad now. I never here about them being at the top of the PVP list either. Too long to build up.
GF and PALI are way over powered.
Why is it that CW and GF dont have to have alot of Armor Pen like everyone else.
Why have i never got anything good out of the lock boxes. I know many people that have open less boxes then me and got 5-10 great items to my 0 items.
Please save this game before it is too late.
Anyway if you really care about how to make the game better reach out to those that play before they stop.
From what I have read and heard through mass fear mongering: You have taken the class nerfing way too far- 6 sec for devine protector is far too short for pve- you could make the duration 1/2 in pvp and balance it better or atleast make it 10-12 sec, as for the drop in damage for 80-50%- this roughly makes the it equal to the gf knights valour which is a permanant (interuptable) encounter-i.e. if you are dropping it to 50% then why kill its duration at all??? As for the Lostmouth set- you are simply making it do what it says on the tin- sounds good, if only all things in the game did what they said in the text. I hope you reconsider these nerfs before you make the class worthless in pve as balance is good but not at the expense of hard grinding pve players ability to use their class. PvP is another story unto itself and it is a battle between the have's and have not's and the death of coalwards in the tradebar store cemented that disparity, induced rage exodus, and expanded the gap between the small percentage controling the majority of the wealth and everyday grinders. The everyday grinder now has little to no chance to upgrading weapon and armour enchants nor do they have the resources to buy them off the AH from the elite wealth holders. In 3 years I have only had 2 coalwards drop out of the celestial synergy boxes- at the very least increase the drop rates so the rest of us have any chance of being competetive in either venue. Just my opinion.
Extremely happy to see that things started to kick off. As a longtime player, my enthusiasm comes from less grinding and more battle-oriented content.
- Bring back Spellplague but don't reduce the number of monsters there. No point in reducing the monsters at all. It makes the CW class obsolete in a sense. - Include a bound on char Black Opal for each "Weekly exclusive" quests, such as the Kessel's run or similar. - New Set bonuses which do not need 500 days to collect. By the time someone gets an item, it's already obsolete. Slow down a bit there. - People play in order to feel like their build is an achievement. No use if you make people rush all the time getting all the new stuff when they can't really relax and enjoy the content itself. - Increase the chance for the Enchants +8, 9, 10, 11, 12. - Rework the Control Wizard class. - Remove the Smoke Bomb power from the Trickster Rogue class. - Disable the ability of other classes to troll the Control Wizard class. What's frozen should remain frozen and on-spot. - Increase the range of Come and Get it of the Great Weapon Fighter. Make the spell 10% more useful so that people use it at all times. - Fix the spell Icy Terrain so that it is not counter as a Single Target Spell. - Increase the casting time of Disintegrate to 10 sec instead of 6. Make it so that Building arcane stacks increases it's damage by 2/4/6/8/10% feat in the Oppressor. - Put Icy Veins on the 2nd place of the Oppressor feat and completely remove that the first strike of Sudden Storm freezes the targets. Icy Veins should be 2nd feat. - Increase the duration of freeze. - Reduce the benefits of Chilling Presence by 5% - Increase the Eye of the Storm to 6 seconds for Burst DPS CWs. - Make every Storm Spell strike to apply daze for 0.1/0.2/0.3 sec feat options. - Increase the bonus from the Prestidigitation and Learned Spellcaster for at least double it's bonuses so that people have alternatives. - Make +5 INT/CHA/CON Belts for level 70+ on Mythical. - Make artifact rings. - Bring back the Potion of Heroism from the Sharandar Campaign. - Disable Spell Twisting in order to make CWs to take the Recovery.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
use imagination in the future instead of rehash of things. use riddles to make us find things and not just "KILL". make the game interesting again and not just a grind. make prizes/rewards worth something instead of BS/scat/HAMSTER. you really have lost your imagination.
Comments
As for asking my friends to die 100 times, they are too busy completing SH tasks to build our guild SH or complete CN to get insignias, will you come to IWP and let me kill you? No? Likely for the same reasons I wouldn't ask them.
Thirdly, I addressed different areas of PVE and PVP, they are both aspects of the same game, if you don't like that take it up with the games' creators as it was their decision to have elements of all. I don't cry at you for PVE, don't cry at me for PVP.
Put simply, you wont get people to enjoy a thing by forcing it on then. Moving content from one player style to another will only cause resentment.
You talk about toxicity, it's not just from PVPers. PVEers can be just as vile and toxic... I've been trash talked in Epic Demo for missing aiming the Gorristro as badly or worse than I have in PVP when I kill an undergeared player.
You talk about toxicity when I come to the forums and get lambasted for trying to find solutions to imbalances and problems constructively.
This is one of the most biased statements I've read from a community moderator yet. Should I simply stop trying to come up with potential work arounds or fixes for what I see in the game that needs to be addressed?
Should I simply never post about PVP again? I'm disappointed that all I get from a moderator is that we should simply give up on PVP all together. Perhaps it's too late if even those who moderate are simply throwing their hands up and saying it's all screwed let's just forget about it.
Thanks for your reply.
But right now, all of this feedback and suggestions is like pissing into the wind.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Simply put, the reason I keep posting here is that some of this feedback does get listened to and all I can hope to do is share some insight on issues I see that need addressed and hope that they get picked up by the devs and given some consideration. If that is pissing in the wind, then I will continue to be covered in my own urine until they stop paying any attention to these forums at all.
I don't cry at you for PVP, I just don't do it. So for me the idea of making (=forcing) me do it if I want to do HEs in IWD is terrible. You say you don't ask your friends to let you kill them in IWD, so don't ask that other players do that.
If pvp was an aspect of the game like pve was, why is it that you have to go to different zones to do it and it even has its own campaign? In my opinion its more like a parallel universe to the main part of the game, but most times when classes get nerfed or mechanics get changed its because some pvp players cried long enough over some imbalance they perceived in their part of the game.
You are doing the same, crying over how pvp players can not get enough kills for the pvp campaign. I wish for pvp to get better in this game, but please without impact on the pve part.
I would like the PVP zones to have more competition. I won 2 black ice dominations by myself just yesterday because I was one of two people there. There is obviously something wrong when these events are unannounced. I suggested that it could be corrected if announced as more PVPers (that's right PVPers vs PVPers) would come to the zone to fight each other. I also suggested that contested mobs (as exist in many other MMOs) may be fun as there would likely be an equal number of PVEers and PVPers on either side and all could get PVP kills (you could actually swarm those dreaded PVPers you hate so much and corpse hump them to relieve some of your pent up frustration with the PVP community) and also gain PVE rewards while doing it.
If you are blaming my post for being the catalyst for every PVE change that came from the PVP community I am flattered but I think you give me too much credit.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
And I agree with you PVP needs fixing. It was all but stated when I said all game play options are woefully under supported. For the record, all, includes PVP. Normally I wouldn't need to point that out but you seem to be intentionally missing it.
So really the only point we seem to disagree on, is moving the demon HEs to PVP zones. You feel this is an enticement, I disagree. You feel this isn't forced, I also disagree. Moving content that people are already playing and relying on for progress will force them to adjust to the move. Nothing positive can come from it. Regardless of how you wish to twist it, that is the crux of the issue. Taking content away from one group to support another. Removing IWD Heroics and moving them to PVP areas is exactly that.
As someone who has seen every aspect of the game; I started in one of the largest roleplaying guilds, am a 'completionist' when it comes to PVE, have created and spent many happy hours in the foundry and am now at home in a large pvp guild, I am fully in support of changes to be made as suggested in the original post.
On the recurring issues of the HE's in pvp zones;
Why can't Demon HE's spawn in the pvp zone and also out of it? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't pvp'ers have HE's in their zone too?
As a pvp DC, it annoys the HAMSTER out of me that I am flagged and then can't 'heal' at a HE, because everyone else is unflagged. And by having HE's spawn in and out of the pvp zone, it gives people the option to fight in or not. YOU HAVE A CHOICE. You DON'T have to go in there. Just stick to the HE's outside of the pvp area. The PVP area is dead except for the occasional IWD Domi and then... it's always pot luck if you run into it. THIS is what the original post was saying.
Some PVE'rs will fight in it PVP zone HE's. And guess what, if they are lucky enough to have a DC/Pally from a pvp guild on their faction - they are going to be moderately protected. It's not all doom and gloom if you actually THINK about it.
Why are we so easy to take the negative stance on the original posts suggestion?
Secondarily I am not twisting any issue. There is no larger meta, there are aspects, this game is an MMO centric game. Inside that "meta" is PVE, PVP, RP, and Foundry. These were originally equal parts of a greater whole. It is you who keeps trying to twist it so that PVE is the main focus and everything else is secondary.
I could take it a step further and say that when you reach end game, PVE flips roles and becomes completely non challenging so, in essence PVP is THE end game.
That said, I do agree that there are many areas in every aspect of the game that could be improved and I would like to see every element of the game improve, I just get tired of fighting against the divide. I am not factional, I do not prefer only PVPers opinions to PVEers but I find that it's difficult to discuss things when people instantly talk negatively about any opinion that end game PVPers may have about the game.
Thanks for your time.
instead of "1) Place the demonic fights inside PVP zones...." you would have had an easier time with the whole idea. Is that what you're saying?
Perhaps if you actually comprehended the content beforehand where he had explained that the pvp area is a dead zone, this would have made more sense? I don't know. I think people are far too quick to say 'NO!' in here.
Now before the knee jerk reactions, I'm not advocating removing anything from the game. Nor will I argue if the game will remain marketable or profitable with PVP, or anything else, removed. I'm simply illustrating that the one part of the game that can not be removed is its PVE aspects, everything else is optional. Making PVE the meta. So while I would love to see more attention paid to many of the games neglected aspects. We have limped along now without several of them for a long time now.
I starting playing in Mod 2 and spent more time doing pvp than pve. I enjoyed pvp in Mods 2 and 3, which was the closest we had to balance bar a few minor problems here and there. Things went south from Mod 4 and has progressively got worse to the point where it is almost unplayable in its current state. Don't get me wrong, pve hasn't been all sunshine and roses during that time, with Mod 6 bringing a shitstorm that we are still trying to recover from.
Fact of the matter is, there is very little challenge for both pve and pvp players for various reasons and THAT needs to change.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Thanks for your reply. That's what you're going with? If you take out PVP there's still a game, thus PVE is the meta. Really. Well man, I can't argue with this kind of logic. They built an entire module around stronghold and created a MOBA based off it and PVE is the meta. Wow, you're not biased at all.
Thanks for your enlightening reply.
@goatshark @graalx3 @badbotlimit @strumslinger @terramak
[oathbound paladin original poster's original post ;D]
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
Thanks for the letter but all classes need review, especially the overly powerful GWF. It is absurd that a typical GWF that I out gear score by 400 or so will almost triple the damage output of my CW. I expect the work I put into my character, not the class I chose, to be the deciding factor in the power output of my character.
I dont how PVP is but NON-PVP needs alot of work.
Warlocks should be high DPS but they suck so bad now. I never here about them being at the top of the PVP list either. Too long to build up.
GF and PALI are way over powered.
Why is it that CW and GF dont have to have alot of Armor Pen like everyone else.
Why have i never got anything good out of the lock boxes. I know many people that have open less boxes then me and got 5-10 great items to my 0 items.
Please save this game before it is too late.
Anyway if you really care about how to make the game better reach out to those that play before they stop.
You have taken the class nerfing way too far- 6 sec for devine protector is far too short for pve- you could make the duration 1/2 in pvp and balance it better or atleast make it 10-12 sec, as for the drop in damage for 80-50%- this roughly makes the it equal to the gf knights valour which is a permanant (interuptable) encounter-i.e. if you are dropping it to 50% then why kill its duration at all???
As for the Lostmouth set- you are simply making it do what it says on the tin- sounds good, if only all things in the game did what they said in the text.
I hope you reconsider these nerfs before you make the class worthless in pve as balance is good but not at the expense of hard grinding pve players ability to use their class. PvP is another story unto itself and it is a battle between the have's and have not's and the death of coalwards in the tradebar store cemented that disparity, induced rage exodus, and expanded the gap between the small percentage controling the majority of the wealth and everyday grinders. The everyday grinder now has little to no chance to upgrading weapon and armour enchants nor do they have the resources to buy them off the AH from the elite wealth holders. In 3 years I have only had 2 coalwards drop out of the celestial synergy boxes- at the very least increase the drop rates so the rest of us have any chance of being competetive in either venue.
Just my opinion.
As a longtime player, my enthusiasm comes from less grinding and more battle-oriented content.
- Bring back Spellplague but don't reduce the number of monsters there. No point in reducing the monsters at all. It makes the CW class obsolete in a sense.
- Include a bound on char Black Opal for each "Weekly exclusive" quests, such as the Kessel's run or similar.
- New Set bonuses which do not need 500 days to collect. By the time someone gets an item, it's already obsolete. Slow down a bit there.
- People play in order to feel like their build is an achievement. No use if you make people rush all the time getting all the new stuff when they can't really relax and enjoy the content itself.
- Increase the chance for the Enchants +8, 9, 10, 11, 12.
- Rework the Control Wizard class.
- Remove the Smoke Bomb power from the Trickster Rogue class.
- Disable the ability of other classes to troll the Control Wizard class. What's frozen should remain frozen and on-spot.
- Increase the range of Come and Get it of the Great Weapon Fighter. Make the spell 10% more useful so that people use it at all times.
- Fix the spell Icy Terrain so that it is not counter as a Single Target Spell.
- Increase the casting time of Disintegrate to 10 sec instead of 6. Make it so that Building arcane stacks increases it's damage by 2/4/6/8/10% feat in the Oppressor.
- Put Icy Veins on the 2nd place of the Oppressor feat and completely remove that the first strike of Sudden Storm freezes the targets. Icy Veins should be 2nd feat.
- Increase the duration of freeze.
- Reduce the benefits of Chilling Presence by 5%
- Increase the Eye of the Storm to 6 seconds for Burst DPS CWs.
- Make every Storm Spell strike to apply daze for 0.1/0.2/0.3 sec feat options.
- Increase the bonus from the Prestidigitation and Learned Spellcaster for at least double it's bonuses so that people have alternatives.
- Make +5 INT/CHA/CON Belts for level 70+ on Mythical.
- Make artifact rings.
- Bring back the Potion of Heroism from the Sharandar Campaign.
- Disable Spell Twisting in order to make CWs to take the Recovery.
This is back. Yissss
Im still playing but with this trend PC is gonna be without a server in less than 6 months.
Because according to steam, people are either taking a break, leaving, moving to ARC, moving to xb-1 or started running from gameclient.exe.
What ever the reason NWO has hit an all time low on players logged via steam and declining steadily.
http://steamcharts.com/app/109600#1y