bubble & haste why?

kadokathegreat · December 2015

is it just me or does the chat seemt be filled with 2 things alot, 1 mmo tank and 2 need bubble & haste. having a HEALING/MIT dc i get kicked because no haste. i understand and dont care of kiks, but when i dont it seems every player out there is so use to standing there and act like every dc suck for not being able to keep them up. my dc is an alt but is very good. there is 2 problems with this 1st the pally op is a tank taking the place of a dc which sounds awsome but look further into it, most bubbles say 90% req a haste so instead of a 4th dps you get a dc that has 1 job HASTE insted of a dc that can heal or heal/debuff or debuff/buff + a pally tanking poping bubble only when needed or the ever extinct gf. then comes problem 2 with perma bubble haste combo these dps classes are becoming ever weaker or the most non intelligent players ive seen since the release of nw. idk if its they dont understand how to build char or that the BIG red blob kills them unless they hit the dodge button. its not a pally problem its just a problem that makes ppl with no skill become good/great and the ppl who are good who understand how to build a char and utilize them GODS. example after 1st boss in ETOS i was kiked not becausse any1 went down but 1 or 2 went below 50%hp the after fuight pally asked over and over for haste i replied y do you need haste if i can keep every 1 up which for some reason im guessing because they are so comfortable with 100% hp and any time they actually take hit they freak out, resulted in me being kiked. just wondering what everyone thinks?

boom782 · December 2015

Because people are lazy and want to sleep walk through dungeons. I can't wait till the pally bubble is nerfed. That will weed out all the scrubs and possibly make this game slightly challenging again just as it was week one of mod 6.

armadeonx · December 2015

I run a bubble as well as a haste DC but I've played the DC since mod 5 when it was always healer plus gf tank.

Quite simply Mod 6 introduced the "1 shot by an add" into all dungeons and the pally/haste combo was the only solution for the poorly geared masses. It still is for new players who have yet to earn their T1 gear.

My pally joined an ETOS run where the other 4 members were from the same guild. They didn't have a haste so I told them we wouldn't have 100% uptime on bubble, they said don't worry the GF will provide AP boosts. Sure enough he did but not nearly as much as a haste. We had multiple deaths / near deaths during the down time. My health never went below 100% due to 10k defence & temp health always up - after 5 mins with the end boss, only me and a GWF were left standing.

The GWF was good & although I had to rez him once & time my bubbles, the two of us finished the boss. But without someone of his ability I would've been left with a stalemate against the boss & would've had to suicide to let the others in to try again.

I would be the first to admit that had one of the lesser DPS'ers been swapped out for a decent full heal cleric nobody would've dropped but yes some of them weren't very good at dodging red areas. Nobody received a 1 shot spike but with no incoming healing they were left to rely on potions...

Personally I'm not bothered whether the bubble is up or not as I don't need it but even running with party wide defence buffs, most classes are just squishy.

Unknown · December 2015

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rockstargfu · December 2015

Ill be honest i harbor some pally hate, im a GF, keep team up, throw out ridiculous buffs, and ppl always want pallys that depend on 1-2 other classes.

But with my dmg mitigatin incrwasinv and devreasing, i dont need heals to keep everything in order. They are nice non the less. But my ideal setup is to run with a DC running straight buffs, only divine glow heal, runs are ridiculously fast. 16 second lostmauuth kill fast.

Really need more GFs, they are plug in play with any group, and IMO make the game fun for everyone.

kadokathegreat · January 2016

im not saying bubble is bad its just perma bubble is killing a great class that has multi uses for haste. and to the guy with bubble pal i can run empowered ast shield with other encounters plus on cool down us BoH and never lose a single guy as long as they stay close by. but even with it or a bubble i watch char stand in red with my other char dps even with a pal i still use dodge cuz you never know when bubble goes down. but with a dc/gf combo i never let a guy drop unless i miss rot or a stupid hr goes far away. i dont understand y ppl act like w/o bubble the games OP or somthing even with pre lvl 70 gear or t1 i never lose a guy it just takes longer cuz the dps isnt there. i just cant wait for them to removre it. plus i respect every pally that dont run bubble and every dc thats not haste

dreadvenemous · January 2016

You build your pally right (like mine), you don't need a cleric. I haul 4 players of any class through T2s all day long. Lots of seals for my guild mates.

kadokathegreat · January 2016

then u r 1 of those 10% i said that know how to play and this question not ment for

shazza53 · January 2016

rockstargfu said:
Ill be honest i harbor some pally hate, im a GF, keep team up, throw out ridiculous buffs, and ppl always want pallys that depend on 1-2 other classes.

But with my dmg mitigatin incrwasinv and devreasing, i dont need heals to keep everything in order. They are nice non the less. But my ideal setup is to run with a DC running straight buffs, only divine glow heal, runs are ridiculously fast. 16 second lostmauuth kill fast.

Really need more GFs, they are plug in play with any group, and IMO make the game fun for everyone.

I'm curious about the pally hate - is it because many people mindlessly call for a pally and forget about what a good GF can do?

I just wonder why people say the Pally is OP when a good GF can lead his team to 16 second Lostmauth kills? Is it a matter of skill required for one class over the other? I'm trying to figure out why running with a GF is fun, compared to running with a Pally?

(I'm not baiting here - I played a GF in Mod 5 and liked it, but she is only at 63, so I can't test her in the new content.) I do play a bubble pally and don't need a haste cleric (but they are always welcomed). The biggest challenge playing a bubble pally is when the group runs all over the place and doesn't understand the bubble is line of sight. The next challenge is playing with a GF and getting killed by a Knight's Valor / Binding Oath combo (which doesn't happen often). The third challenge is staying awake if you've got a low DPS group, because even I have to say, Pallying can put you to sleep

kadokathegreat · January 2016

shazza53 said:

rockstargfu said:
Ill be honest i harbor some pally hate, im a GF, keep team up, throw out ridiculous buffs, and ppl always want pallys that depend on 1-2 other classes.

But with my dmg mitigatin incrwasinv and devreasing, i dont need heals to keep everything in order. They are nice non the less. But my ideal setup is to run with a DC running straight buffs, only divine glow heal, runs are ridiculously fast. 16 second lostmauuth kill fast.

Really need more GFs, they are plug in play with any group, and IMO make the game fun for everyone.
I'm curious about the pally hate - is it because many people mindlessly call for a pally and forget about what a good GF can do?

I just wonder why people say the Pally is OP when a good GF can lead his team to 16 second Lostmauth kills? Is it a matter of skill required for one class over the other? I'm trying to figure out why running with a GF is fun, compared to running with a Pally?

(I'm not baiting here - I played a GF in Mod 5 and liked it, but she is only at 63, so I can't test her in the new content.) I do play a bubble pally and don't need a haste cleric (but they are always welcomed). The biggest challenge playing a bubble pally is when the group runs all over the place and doesn't understand the bubble is line of sight. The next challenge is playing with a GF and getting killed by a Knight's Valor / Binding Oath combo (which doesn't happen often). The third challenge is staying awake if you've got a low DPS group, because even I have to say, Pallying can put you to sleep

i dont hate pally i appreciate any build that dont req another class to function i had perma freeze cw a perma stealth tr so i like building char diffence is i didnt req another like 90% pally out there and i would never say they are op im just reffering to the ppl who req a perma bubble since the intro to the pally hypo what if tom they removed the class if your a ggood player you remember how many crappy gf there where or dc there where the pally just made the game way easier = to a crappy skill lvl of players who dont understand a proper tank build+dc build=easy wins and still in mod 6 when i join dung with tr,cw or gwf all lvl 70 i see others quit becuz no pally or the vote kik the dc if he isnt haste even tho they never let any1 go downn as long as u dont stand in red. what im trying to get at the reason i loved the game was for the challenge of building char then running dung but now i can walk threw dung without my health ever leavving 100% thats not challenging that becomes a child game. i understand players need bubble but to req it 100% of the time and most take offense to the idea of taking a hit. want to prove my point if you have bubble pally dont use bubble and when asked y no bubble just tell group not build to use it and watch how fast these dps classes run or kik u out its not about the bubble its how easy others want to run things and when they need bubble they really NEED it or they cant survive. like i was just kiked by group cuz they wanted to stand there in red and expect me to keep them alive on final boss in shores then to prove there point so they think the next try all they did was dodge red but took lil damage from 2 drags so i turned div on and began to use BoH which is a major healer for all u non DCers so with no dps being done just dodges and me healing getting ready to use rotation (all the DCers already see where this is going) of course i pulled agro now after already layin down div astral shield and BoH then fully empowered shield then divine glow which causing me to pull agro how long do you think i lasted? answer i dint make it to the sec div casting before 2 drags and boss where throwing everything my way. so the point is these ppl think a dc only haste there not healers mit buff debuff or anything in between becuz of the bubble so i challenge every pal to not use it

armadeonx · January 2016

Thing is, if an OP wants to run dungeons with randoms then they have to run bubble or they get kicked - same with clerics and haste. A straight heal DC in my guild also complains about getting kicked for not being haste.

I run with pugs for the AD - that means giving them what they want. I'm just there to get paid.

If I want to experiment I wait til guildies are on.

worldoffred · January 2016

I played DC since mod 5 and I will argue that the DC heals are not very strong. One poster wants to return to the challenges of the first week of mod 6 and that was a disaster for most everyone. Haste helps ALL members of the party to do their dailies quickly so that's why it is in demand. The DC buffs/debuffs are strong and you can still do those with a haste DC. Life for my DC was horrible until he made to switch to haste. It's a no-brainer. With haste, my DC can solo dread ring since he can keep popping off his dailies. The bubble has made it possible for average players to make it through T2 dungeons so they can get the gear to improve/survive.

kadokathegreat · January 2016

fredwkols said:
I played DC since mod 5 and I will argue that the DC heals are not very strong. One poster wants to return to the challenges of the first week of mod 6 and that was a disaster for most everyone. Haste helps ALL members of the party to do their dailies quickly so that's why it is in demand. The DC buffs/debuffs are strong and you can still do those with a haste DC. Life for my DC was horrible until he made to switch to haste. It's a no-brainer. With haste, my DC can solo dread ring since he can keep popping off his dailies. The bubble has made it possible for average players to make it through T2 dungeons so they can get the gear to improve/survive.

i can tell you have no clue how to build a healing/debuff dc, 1st the dc main function is healing like a gwf is dps, theres alot of bad gwf that do mid grade dps just as theres alot of bad dc that cant debuff att and apply def buffs while casting heales my dc builds divinity so fast and short cool downs i. can apply full empowered devine glow and astral shield so fast yo can literaly stand there taking no dmg and if you some how do i can lay down fully emp BoH take any char from 1% hp to 100% then restart my rotation. i run mddle tree feats plus boons for healing only prob being if i pull agro im not in debuff rad i get one shot but thats rare then i build ap so fast if i miss rot i can always lay down armor and if thhere is go tank not req that much i can lay down break the spirit or forge for more buffs so i gave you multi reasons of a bubble replacement i think ur dc if it as bad as you say is not properly built or has wrong rot or you just have no concept of timing but coming from a dps class to a party support it was dif and toook time to get down a dc isnt a class where you can throw att/feats and gear where ever you want and expect to keep ppl up im not saying ur dc is garbage you did by saying there heals are weak

kadokathegreat · January 2016

matter of fact go to youtube type neverwinter-mod 6 epic temple of spider final boss dc and watch a proper dc build keep his team up

yourenext2die · January 2016

They do this in Dom too. The reason why you will see certain DC's always next to their OP.

wdj40 · January 2016

My preferred Dungeon runs these days are without a Pally in the group, just puts more fun into the run for me, I`m not a fan of Bubble.

shazza53 · January 2016

wdj40 said:
My preferred Dungeon runs these days are without a Pally in the group, just puts more fun into the run for me, I`m not a fan of Bubble.

Oh, you hurt my feelings

. I was hoping to do a run someday, but the Pally hate is strong (j/k - kinda - I understand what you mean). What about a Pally who runs as a tank but doesn't bubble up? A good GF is probably better - don't really know.

kadokathegreat · January 2016

shazza53 said:

wdj40 said:
My preferred Dungeon runs these days are without a Pally in the group, just puts more fun into the run for me, I`m not a fan of Bubble.
Oh, you hurt my feelings . I was hoping to do a run someday, but the Pally hate is strong (j/k - kinda - I understand what you mean). What about a Pally who runs as a tank but doesn't bubble up? A good GF is probably better - don't really know.

i would prefer thhat or if u could keep bubble up on ur own that wouldnt negate a dc or gf but its not about hate its about the ease of game and skilll it takes to run its become a game where players NEED bubble to play or win resulting in players who see char that use buffs and debuffs and heals to not understand its the same or they just have no clue how to utilize them example being ppl just standing in red and wondering y they go down or fueling there beleifs that dam mit doesnt work or not understanding that if u dont fight inside gold circ ur going to die. its reminds me of the OP tr in prev mods then every one wanted 1 but differ being the tr tho easy to use and easy to build didnt effect the outcome of a dung run you still needed players to win with pally you litterally stand whereeveer u want taking dodge out of it then u stand there like in lostmoth in the lava throwing out encounters with no rot or spec build and can still win easly what fun is that really? like i said if they removed it from game you get what you had in prev mods a bunch of scrubs running dc who think (like the dc guy above) they cant heal or mit enough or they dont know how to. its sad to see a new class thats so broken it makes crappy dpsers and dcs look ggood to where the actual ppl who understand the mech of the game get kiked for keeping them alive but not being what there use to

fluffy6977 · January 2016

I main a Guardian fighter and can successfully take down lesser dungeon bosses without a cleric and with only 3dps (t1, haven't tried t2). From that perspective there is one huge problem with players and the bubble paladin, and to an extent KV, do not help at all. People do not understand threat generation, and DPS does not give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about not out - threatening the tank. Add to that that most bubblidens don't manage threat at all.

When I run my dps I kind of hate running with bubblidens, bubble goes down everyone wipes. Really sucks.

kadokathegreat · January 2016

see my point then im not saying u need a dc or need a gf the point and question is y do ppl feel the need for bubble and haste like u cant win without it and what its doing to ppl. im mean its only a matter of time before its nerfed and every one that replied saying its hard or imposible w/o bubble or dc's have weak heals i know they have no understanding of the game but whats the aftermath going to be after nerf? a bunch of haste dc that respec and have no clue what to do or a bunch of useless ole bubbles who cant fig out how to manage a tank style play? and with both dps and dc what that means is crappy time running dung and as dc a bunch of whinny ddpsers learning to dodge and rotation to max dps again? i mean the game is so dull i feel like its mod 5 pk again its not a challenge at least then with my cw when i mob controld at least it mattered when you had or where a great clutch healer now none of that matters its y the game skill is falling. i remember being good
brought u guild inv from = as good ppl now your lvl 70 char item lvl 1200 will bring 50 inv standing there its a joke i eearned all my t2 arms and elven with a squishy cw before the bubble was widly used it can be done as long as u had char who knew how to mob contol, buff/debuff,heal or pull agro in and how to time now its a stand aroundfest with no skill

Unknown · January 2016

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wdj40 · January 2016

shazza53 said:

wdj40 said:
My preferred Dungeon runs these days are without a Pally in the group, just puts more fun into the run for me, I`m not a fan of Bubble.
Oh, you hurt my feelings . I was hoping to do a run someday, but the Pally hate is strong (j/k - kinda - I understand what you mean). What about a Pally who runs as a tank but doesn't bubble up? A good GF is probably better - don't really know.

He he I would always run with you if you invited me and I was free Shazza

I don't mind running with Pally's, I just prefer not to as it makes the me or the team lazier due to just being invincible most of the time. I much prefer the mechanics of the whole team needing to work together and if some deaths happen then that is good as it means the game is putting up a fight and people can learn from it.

myfist2yourface · January 2016

the simple answer:
-if you nerfed them - you would stagnate about 80% of the player growth in the game- not much fun for little chico...
"most" people cant make it thru a full dungeon without dieing more than a few times without one... Ive done both now, even run with Healodin and DC and made it thru- but it took 4-6 injury kits, and a bunch of potions.... as you cant avoid most of the "One-shot " thang...

zman81420 · January 2016

A haste n bubble pally has become the dungeon farm choice. Serious players should by now be geared enough and possess enough progression in their characters to run without a paladin and DC every run like they are chaperones at a school dance. Mix it up some, try and challenging yourselves. Take it from me I am a Guardian Fighter, we are a dying breed with alot to offer for with protection and DPS buffs.

armadeonx · January 2016

Yes, bubble & haste is only needed to get people to T1 assuming these new players are also working on their boons and artiact levelling. There's a bigger stat difference between basic 115's to 130's than there is from 130's to 135 so whilst it's still useful for people moving from T1 to T2 you can get by in etos (for example) with a straight heal, GF and 3 dps if everyone is well built, play smart and communicate.

My OP now has all T2 gear and I'd not have a problem with a bubble nerf. The thing is GF's complain about being ignored despite their obviously good de/buffs but that puts them in the same boat as CW's and to a lesser degree TR's. GWF's and SW's rule dungeon DPS at the moment & random groups will choose them over a similarly specced CW/TR.

Cryptic need to have a serious rethink about the positioning & abilities of all classes so they all bring something unique and valuable to the table without one becoming 'uber'.

Many will still have preferences but if bringing one class instead of another changes the dynamic but not the ability of a group, that makes it interesting and fun.

cscriv79 · January 2016

each mod throws up its 'wanted' setup/build/grouping that ppl want, its that simple, A GF can haste faster that a cleric, we use one from time to time, seen a SW solo SoT Garakas fight, but alas changes in mod 8 pretty much kill SW class and make OP a thing of the past as everyone wants a GF (from what has happened on PC anyway).
So in short take each mod as it is and use which ever is the most fun for you or gets you thru the dungeons fastest.

Bubble and haste = easy dungeon farming which with all these 2xRP, 2xSeals etc as of late is very handy.(too much 2xRP in my opinion, has made most high geared with too easy content, Dragon flight armour, meh elven is enough at min,infuse armour to make it better, no need content is not hard enough to warrant the expense)

ladyevayne · January 2016

As a GF primary, i feel that a group of randoms is going to seek bubble safety, but more experience people that know the mechanics prefer a a GF for ITF (50% ore more extra damage with nearly 100% up time makes for fast runs). As for haste clerics, i understand why they are sought above all else. First, a good group doesn't need the healing provided by a healing focused cleric. No amount of healing saves a bad group from one shots (a bubble pally combo does). So the window of a pure healing cleric, is group without a tank or a learning group, both of which are much more rare. As for haste, aside from healing, there is nothing that will provide as much DPS or party utility as giving 5 people Dailies significantly faster. If you have ever run ITF GF tactician, a daily recharged every 6 seconds is hilarious.

kuero21 · January 2016

Just because you are a "haste cleric" it doesn't mean that you cannot heal or buff/ debuff.
I have always played a virtuous cleric since the release of this game. Of cause I specced for gift of haste because it's nice to have.
But you don't have to spam every heal ability that provides haste. We are still clerics and no haste hoes. Our primary job is to heal hp and not ap.
As a pure virtues cleric you shouldn't have a hard time on providing haste without doing anything. This passive shield provides a heal over time (+haste) whenever an Allie in a certain range takes dmg.
A pally will usually run into a pack of several adds and get hit often enough to get a lot of haste just by your passive. So you can focus on buffing and debuffing. Divine glow is a buff/ debuff and provides haste if you have the shield. If you have this cleaning fire talent that you have a 50% chance that break the spirit will also provide haste.
So if you want to focus on buffing and the pally moans about haste tell him to take as much dmg and as many hits as possible.

And I guess the above comments already answered your question. Players are lazy. They prefer to take no dmg rather than to take dmg and having to get healed.

mahburg · January 2016

Too much talk about nerfing characters, what do they think will happen if they do this again after the mess of the GWF nerf wayback?
What would be the point of developing further characters if all they are going to do is Nerf them as soon as the players start profiting from their investment.
If folk don't want to run with the Pallies then don't, if you don't like them then that's your call, exercise your choice. But to call for a nerf on a character you clearly don't run with is a little petty no?

kadokathegreat · January 2016

null
Petty no. It's not petty the point I'm trying to make Marburg is if you create a. Class that makes every other class obsolete then that's an exploit I'll explain if you get 5 gr in a group good luck beating lostmouth and it <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for even queing for gray wolf den. But if ur a group of 5 bubbles then it will take about 5 hours But you could win without going down no others avg class could do that yes 5 way Op gwf could but not avg to me that throw the game off I'm not saying need them all the way like gwf need but the point in a tank is to be able to withstand dam I've yet to see an avg tank get one shot but the bubble not only kills the gf its also turned the dc into somthing its not and not because it dont work or anything its just obsolete to taking no dam and walk I g threw easly. Half these dc are not dc these ppl have no clue how to time or build to equal it out besides the cleric is a healer some ppl proved my point by saying dc cant heal or gf is only goods for buffs but in reality no one should take hits unless its collateral dam like in elol because a proper run tank holds threat over all classes so the only focus for dc should be tank 90percent of the time running my dc I see hr or cw way off by themselves because the dont understand that u standby dc not make them come find you and a proper dc can buff or rebuff incoming dmg if they stand inside astral shield and allow to hit with d glow the 28th one big heal I can heal the tank. Who should have most dmg and them in one cast ppl dont understand it makes no since to have dc as haste I'm sure pally has way more powers gthen just that that can buff there party and still function in a group the hashed bubble is going to be nerfed because the devs didn't understand that it could happen and now it throws the game into 100 percent success rate which holds no challenge. Yes nerfing makes ppl mad but the ppl who stick around and play it work hard in char to build them master there rotations to Just become obsolete over a exploit they would rather keep there core gamers then to keep ppl who inv little time and get mad cuz there pally is not God anymore.

Unknown · January 2016

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bubble & haste why?

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