If the eLoL set gets a rework, I don't think it would impact SW Fury Soulbinder Builds (that's what I run btw!) as much as other classes. From my experience/knowledge the eLoL set is super important for GWFs and CWs for PvE DPS. I have heard/seen 20-30% of their DPS can be from said set.. Mine usually fluctuates around 10-12%, sometimes as low as 7%, some as high as 15% give or take.
So a rework of that set wouldn't be such a huge impact to SWs comparitively. Though I'd probably switch back to the Black Ice set simply for the + to Cha/Con it has.
Just chiming in on that particular note... Keep on rocking people!
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
I just ran eToS with a SW tonight who was godlike in his damage.
He is too weak indeed and even the chart itself says that. I don't know who are you trying to cheat or manipulate. Take out Fabled Illiyanbruen set
None of that. Even without the set, they are doing twice or triple the damage I'm doing. And yes, I am also aware of the environmental advantages like mob composition, hallways, etc.
This one build is simply specialized to bring the most out of the set effect, I am not the one trying to manipulate and decorate the truth.
You can not get said set anymore. It is a mod 5 set so you really can't use this one to compare damage. What would you say to new SWs? "too bad you came to Neverwinter 1year too late. Now your SW will be useless (unless you use the broken and unpredictable puppet) but as you can see the players with set do good dps so everything is fine." Also you don't need a special build for this set. I own it and tested it out a lot, also asked other SWs about it. It is just a set bonus which activates with special encounters. No special feats needed here, you could even be temptation and corrupted fire damage would stay the same.
Well you haven't even mentioned it but Damnation warlock and his soul puppet does pretty insane damage in Tier 2 and in Tier 1 though, even without the said set.
There's no "specific" build required to get use of that set
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
edited October 2015
Fury Warlock can be good in pve if you use it correctly, even without the set. Temptation is LOL, I wouldnt say much about damnation, it's bugged, needs to be fixed. It's on autopilot mode, Puppet does the damage for you. Fix it, and bring in some new mechanics (FEAR: puppet debuffs nearby target damage and mitigation by 10%, You deal 30% more damage near your puppet etc.) On low and mid levels, most warlock stuggle (but lot of them does not know the mechanics, throwing fireballs without curse, using Blades, Doesnt use defender companion for solo etc.), that needs to be adressed. I think the most important matter, that the encounters needs to be buffed, reworked, there's only about 4-5 that you can use, the rest of them are... (Vampiric, Cursed Bite, Infernal Spheres, Pillar of Power, Wraith shadow, Blades, Arms, even Harrowstorm (that has some uses though)... There's only one Daily worth using, passives are not too good etc. Experienced players can use SW at high effiency, but still needs some care.
Anyway, they are still working on SW, and the 29th 'SW is too weak, buff it' topic won't help.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
I'm still topping Paingiver. Go Fury if you want DPS. But Damnation is still decent. The only path really broken is Damnation.
You must be vastly overgeared or using an exploit yourself. I popped TT on every fight in a run and still got out DPS'd with ease when I tried out fury.
I am(stupidly) running around with a Temptation Warlock. I have stubbornly kept at it, at about 3k TIL. I am always last out of the DPS classes I run with in dungeons and sometimes the tanks also out damage me, I guess this is no surprise, but what gets me is that i come nowhere near the healing that a Paladin or Cleric can do. I can handle that they outheal me, but they out heal me by way too much. Most times, GWF, CW etc out heal me with just their healing potions......... I guess I am just seeking to be a utility that slightly boosts DPS and slightly boosts Healing, I am doing that but coming way short of expectations. Mods, please fix or boost lifesteal. Add it to armour sets for SW, give SW a boost to lifesteal....
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I am(stupidly) running around with a Temptation Warlock. I have stubbornly kept at it, at about 3k TIL. I am always last out of the DPS classes I run with in dungeons and sometimes the tanks also out damage me, I guess this is no surprise, but what gets me is that i come nowhere near the healing that a Paladin or Cleric can do. I can handle that they outheal me, but they out heal me by way too much. Most times, GWF, CW etc out heal me with just their healing potions......... I guess I am just seeking to be a utility that slightly boosts DPS and slightly boosts Healing, I am doing that but coming way short of expectations. Mods, please fix or boost lifesteal. Add it to armour sets for SW, give SW a boost to lifesteal....
Also the fact that the SW's damage is so pitiful also contributes to poor healing.
All that fake complaint and lies about the temptation Warlock usability and buff requests are hillarious. I remember in module 4 the first 2 months TT shares not just the SW but everybody dmg. Every Fotm player and their mother rolled an SW. Lots of them were Temptation only to boast about how they climb paingiver and best heal in the same time and how unnecesarry DC became.
When they finally fixed that thing in TT 90% of Temptation SWs left it and went Fury...
So how about raising temple with lifesteal boon and then watch how good Temptation are shall we?
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
All that fake complaint and lies about the temptation Warlock usability and buff requests are hillarious. I remember in module 4 the first 2 months TT shares not just the SW but everybody dmg. Every Fotm player and their mother rolled an SW. Lots of them were Temptation only to boast about how they climb paingiver and best heal in the same time and how unnecesarry DC became.
When they finally fixed that thing in TT 90% of Temptation SWs left it and went Fury...
So how about raising temple with lifesteal boon and then watch how good Temptation are shall we?
Doesn't change the fact that their DPS is beyond pathetic. People with 10% more LS are still going be lackluster and just carry fodder.
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
Temptation even with high level of lifesteal wont be able to fill the DC/OP's role, because they do not bring any useful partybuff or debuff. And the fact, that they cant heal while the don't do damage makes their healing mechanic far worse than thehealer classes. They can heal only in limited range. And you need Very high level of lifesteal, which comes with very high level of IL. The same level DC/OP will outshine the warlock in any scenario. Of course with a 3k+ IL temp warlock you may outheal a 2k IL DC, but that's not really a good point to compare. But due to the buffs the 2k IL DC still more useful.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
Guys I'm doing pretty good with Temptation too, I can't believe you get outdpsed with easy. Something should be wrong in your rotation.
Run your SW with @jaegernl on his devotion OP (I am testing tank for the purposes of including it in my build guide atm, so I am out of the equation) or @gurneyhal on his righteous dc and then say that temptation SW is not lacklustre. I used to play temptation SW, but now there is literally no point, it doesn't contribute anything that other classes can't do better at in every single way.
I guess my problem with the way things have been done with the SW is that I do not feel that those designing the game are quite sure what they want from the Scourge Warlock class.
As a backup healer we're just not good enough.
As a boss fighter we just dont have the survivability or the damage output to be really useful in the biggest fights (Valindra, Tiamat, Dragon runs)
As a tank class we have a pet we cannot control, that gets one or two shot by any level 70 mobs, and only through exploits can we really be of any use.
So, first off I guess I should ask the devs what do they expect from the Scourge Warlock, ranged DOT DPS? Then make more of our abilities work with Creeping Death in the Fury line.
Do they want us to tank? Make our Soul Puppet controllable and able to survive in combat. Hell, look at Everquest 1's Necromancer if you want to see how a pet tank should be ran. That class was awesome.
IF you want us as backup healers with the temptation line then your going to have to revamp that whole line so it's more useful in a fight. The healing output is just way too low with Lifesteal as it is right now. One idea that just occured to me is that maybe we should only be able to heal a PC affected by our abilities up to a point. Raise our healing, but put it so that it maxes out at 65% or 70% of their health. That way we are still useful for keeping people from dying in drawn out encounters, but you still need a healer to keep people at top health so they can survive the big hits that come during major encounters.
We're hearing that the SW will get looked at with mod 8. I dont even know what that means? The class should have been getting looked at for the better part of 6 months now, at least.
there is no balance issue here some places yes here no. SW played right is one of the top dps classes! FWI soul puppet is not in the high dps spec of SW. The reason those other classes are out dpsing you is not your class its your poor choice of companions and relics
Can someone suggest a good encounter rotation for a Temptation lock? I currently use dreadtheft, vampiric embrace(for the healing party) and harrowstorm(just because i always have used it).
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
Harrowstorm is absolute bad, too slow, you can cancel this with accidently hitting tab, mob dies, it ends, not that great damage either. Vampiric is also pathetic. Do not use Blades either, it's damage is too low to be any of use. I'd go with Warlock's bargain, (target biggest mob) Dreadtheft, SoulScorch. The dots should be able to heal you and party. (Note that I dont play tempt anymore, but that rotation should work better.)
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
Hellbringer is not so viable because of known issues to LS and missing survivability. Temtation is not working due to capstone Soulbinder provides most damage of both paragons Damnation path is broken, but not as broken as GWF destroyer
Fury can perform with right build, high crit + high AP gain is needed to perma spam TT
Single target damage is fine for fury as for damnation due to SS and immolation spirits
Doing Bossfights with adds the mechanic from TT works nice in case your AP gain is high, otherwise you underperform against all classes.
The class depends in one single daily that deals >50% oft overalldamage for fury as I remember If you can't use this daily your overall damage would be very poor because every encounter this class has deals less damage than one weapon master strike from GWF So its all about TT doing trash because the encounter are that weak, you would suck heavily in every dungeonrun if using these encounter without TT
Single target damage is good damnation>fury because puppet>creeping death in T1andT2 Outsider dungeons fury>damnation
Soloing is poor compared to other classes, esp low geared: take a 2,3 GWF or DC and a 2,3 GS warlock and go WoD or IWD
Running Temptation you should do the same all other warlocks do High AP gain and crit is essential focus on elite mob TT+WB+HG +DT Enboss TT (if up) +WB +HG +SS Damage = heal so using vampiric breath or other encounter won´t help taht much, you have to play that tree the same way a damagedealer would do
I think for pure solo (no dungeon paingiver) you basically need
Borrowed time High crit before other stats Warlock bargain
You start with WB on a priority target (incoming damage reduced and redirected on him+you heal back. Makes you survive first wave of damage if you briefly shadowstep before bunch hits you), dreadtheft on bunch of mobs while their attack is on cooldown, if you focus on azures/crit chance first, you go max sparks in no time. Reapply WB, mix shadow slip to mitigate, some hand of blight and dread theft+ killing flames for fast nuke on mini-bosses. Repeat. Now you kill everything and survive. Just dodge red zones.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I think for pure solo (no dungeon paingiver) you basically need
Borrowed time High crit before other stats Warlock bargain
You start with WB on a priority target (incoming damage reduced and redirected on him+you heal back. Makes you survive first wave of damage if you briefly shadowstep before bunch hits you), dreadtheft on bunch of mobs while their attack is on cooldown, if you focus on azures/crit chance first, you go max sparks in no time. Reapply WB, mix shadow slip to mitigate, some hand of blight and dread theft+ killing flames for fast nuke on mini-bosses. Repeat. Now you kill everything and survive. Just dodge red zones.
I do exactly these things, but the problem, the SW's damage on their powers are pathetic beyond belief. For a class with no means of control why are things dying so slowly. I can't even have the output of my trapper and CW at least...? My single target is a little better than my trappers, but that's not saying much, when most fights involve multiple targets not to mention that I'm not CC'ing them like my trapper.
Comments
I wanna see any 3k+ CW even come close to that.
So a rework of that set wouldn't be such a huge impact to SWs comparitively. Though I'd probably switch back to the Black Ice set simply for the + to Cha/Con it has.
Just chiming in on that particular note... Keep on rocking people!
FWIW.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
This one build is simply specialized to bring the most out of the set effect, I am not the one trying to manipulate and decorate the truth.
Also you don't need a special build for this set. I own it and tested it out a lot, also asked other SWs about it. It is just a set bonus which activates with special encounters. No special feats needed here, you could even be temptation and corrupted fire damage would stay the same.
On low and mid levels, most warlock stuggle (but lot of them does not know the mechanics, throwing fireballs without curse, using Blades, Doesnt use defender companion for solo etc.), that needs to be adressed.
I think the most important matter, that the encounters needs to be buffed, reworked, there's only about 4-5 that you can use, the rest of them are... (Vampiric, Cursed Bite, Infernal Spheres, Pillar of Power, Wraith shadow, Blades, Arms, even Harrowstorm (that has some uses though)... There's only one Daily worth using, passives are not too good etc.
Experienced players can use SW at high effiency, but still needs some care.
Anyway, they are still working on SW, and the 29th 'SW is too weak, buff it' topic won't help.
Most times, GWF, CW etc out heal me with just their healing potions.........
I guess I am just seeking to be a utility that slightly boosts DPS and slightly boosts Healing, I am doing that but coming way short of expectations.
Mods, please fix or boost lifesteal. Add it to armour sets for SW, give SW a boost to lifesteal....
I remember in module 4 the first 2 months TT shares not just the SW but everybody dmg.
Every Fotm player and their mother rolled an SW. Lots of them were Temptation only to boast about how they climb paingiver and best heal in the same time and how unnecesarry DC became.
When they finally fixed that thing in TT 90% of Temptation SWs left it and went Fury...
So how about raising temple with lifesteal boon and then watch how good Temptation are shall we?
As a backup healer we're just not good enough.
As a boss fighter we just dont have the survivability or the damage output to be really useful in the biggest fights (Valindra, Tiamat, Dragon runs)
As a tank class we have a pet we cannot control, that gets one or two shot by any level 70 mobs, and only through exploits can we really be of any use.
So, first off I guess I should ask the devs what do they expect from the Scourge Warlock, ranged DOT DPS? Then make more of our abilities work with Creeping Death in the Fury line.
Do they want us to tank? Make our Soul Puppet controllable and able to survive in combat. Hell, look at Everquest 1's Necromancer if you want to see how a pet tank should be ran. That class was awesome.
IF you want us as backup healers with the temptation line then your going to have to revamp that whole line so it's more useful in a fight. The healing output is just way too low with Lifesteal as it is right now. One idea that just occured to me is that maybe we should only be able to heal a PC affected by our abilities up to a point. Raise our healing, but put it so that it maxes out at 65% or 70% of their health. That way we are still useful for keeping people from dying in drawn out encounters, but you still need a healer to keep people at top health so they can survive the big hits that come during major encounters.
We're hearing that the SW will get looked at with mod 8. I dont even know what that means? The class should have been getting looked at for the better part of 6 months now, at least.
I currently use dreadtheft, vampiric embrace(for the healing party) and harrowstorm(just because i always have used it).
I'd go with Warlock's bargain, (target biggest mob) Dreadtheft, SoulScorch. The dots should be able to heal you and party. (Note that I dont play tempt anymore, but that rotation should work better.)
Hellbringer is not so viable because of known issues to LS and missing survivability.
Temtation is not working due to capstone
Soulbinder provides most damage of both paragons
Damnation path is broken, but not as broken as GWF destroyer
Fury can perform with right build, high crit + high AP gain is needed to perma spam TT
Single target damage is fine for fury as for damnation due to SS and immolation spirits
Doing Bossfights with adds the mechanic from TT works nice in case your AP gain is high, otherwise you underperform against all classes.
The class depends in one single daily that deals >50% oft overalldamage for fury as I remember
If you can't use this daily your overall damage would be very poor because every encounter this class has deals less damage than one weapon master strike from GWF
So its all about TT doing trash because the encounter are that weak, you would suck heavily in every dungeonrun if using these encounter without TT
Single target damage is good
damnation>fury because puppet>creeping death in T1andT2
Outsider dungeons fury>damnation
Soloing is poor compared to other classes, esp low geared: take a 2,3 GWF or DC and a 2,3 GS warlock and go WoD or IWD
Running Temptation you should do the same all other warlocks do
High AP gain and crit is essential
focus on elite mob TT+WB+HG +DT
Enboss TT (if up) +WB +HG +SS
Damage = heal so using vampiric breath or other encounter won´t help taht much, you have to play that tree the same way a damagedealer would do
Borrowed time
High crit before other stats
Warlock bargain
You start with WB on a priority target (incoming damage reduced and redirected on him+you heal back. Makes you survive first wave of damage if you briefly shadowstep before bunch hits you), dreadtheft on bunch of mobs while their attack is on cooldown, if you focus on azures/crit chance first, you go max sparks in no time. Reapply WB, mix shadow slip to mitigate, some hand of blight and dread theft+ killing flames for fast nuke on mini-bosses. Repeat. Now you kill everything and survive. Just dodge red zones.