I get most all my AD from leadership and now that is going away. Thanks for taking the only way for a lot of us to obtain AD. I don't have the time every day to spend running dungeons and skirmishes and also do the quests needed for the SH and running Dread Ring since that is the only decent place for many of us to get RP for our artifacts. If I had known this was going to happen, I wouldn't have spent money on going vip. Now I feel completely and utterly ripped off. Thanks for HAMSTER over those of us that needed the leadership profession to be able to make any sort of actual AD in the game.
My suggestion is that everyone get a 1 month(?) free trial of VIP
I think that's a great idea ... VIP is great and we know the bots will have it anyway ... so unless this [change to leadership] is explicitly against the non-bot community ... I don't see much drawback
Hey, you know what I should be? Rewarded for playing and doing things that I enjoy. As long as the challenge is reasonable of course, I'm not a whiner that wants to get a reward with minimal effort. But as long as I am actually playing, getting challenged and overcoming that challenge, I should get a reward of some kind. Instead, now the game is all about force-feeding you old, stale content that you wouldn't ever think of playing if it wasn't that it's pretty much the only way to progress.
You think I enjoy having to do the T2 epic dungeons (Which are just carbon copies of the regular dungeons, only every mook and boss is in "Crapload of HP and one-shot you" mode) just so that I can get decent armor which will be outdated by TWO modules by the time I can get a full set?
You think I enjoy doing the same two skirmishes over and over in hope of getting something that will fetch some decent price at the auction and let me progress that tiny baby step towards overcoming the cash gate that is gearing yourself up?
You think I enjoy spending hours of alternating between Dragon Runs and Tiamat Runs to farm for stones?
No, and in fact here's the thing I enjoy most: going back to EE zones and joining Heroic Encounters. Other players appreciate me for it, and even though I get almost no reward for it it's still something I do solely to break the tedious routine and fight something that isn't dragons, cultists or Thayan. I also enjoyed doing HE runs in the Stronghold with my guild, until the nerf to drop rates (SERIOUSLY? The same reward for a small and a big HE?) made everyone give up on them. Oh, and also Dragon flight, we have finally put up a plan that allows us to kill two dragons (and many tears have been shed this far over the fact that you have to pay to open a prize you have earned.)
Now, why not reward players that do that with AD, or valuable, tradeable items? Levels scale, so it's not like they can exploit that much. A whole guild making lots of diamonds this way? It's called "group effort", and in this game it gets all but gimped so far. Botters? You'll have a much bigger problem than botters if you keep restraining your players like that, so just this once try doing something that MIGHT benefit the botters and will SURELY benefit the players, instead of going with the usual approach of doing something that WON'T do anything about the botters and SURELY ruin the players one way or another.
Id just like to point something out. AD is relative to costs.
So to put it another way, if you could only earn a max of 100 AD per day would that be a bad thing? Well it depends... It depends on the cost of items. What if GMOP prices dropped to only 100 AD as well as coal wards 500 AD.
I mean its all relative.
Now I am not saying "drop prices on everything!" Would that help? Sure! But why not INSTEAD actually address the bigger issue AD Sinks.
The TWO biggest ad sinks we have are: 1) Enchants 2) Artifacts/Artifact equipment.
So what if they instead of reducing prices of things, tackled making those two areas less of an "ad sink". That would be a positive change for the game no? Now we would have less "botters" farming AD via leadership and now you have legit ways of making AD in game and it could cost less ad to progress.
I really hope people read that. Its TWO small adjustments to the game that would make this entire AD change thing an EXTREMELY positive one! Please read!
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
I like how the artifact weapons at epic level (purple) aren't even as good as getting the leveling epic weapons (the newer ones that came with this mod)...
Next stepp, anything from professions will be also bound to account. Enjoy. Just another "logcial" stepp, if botters can get AD from LS, they can also get AD from other professions too. Therefore anything from professions has to become bound in one way or another.
Anyway, the question still stands, what is being done against all the AD through bugs, exploits and botters still ingame? Where're the big plans on cleaning the game from that AD?
So besides killing off what remained of their player base from the nerfing of leadership from the gateway, do you want to know the biggest joke of all? Botters are going to be laughing their butts off at this futile attempt at "nerfing" their means of AD income. It's a joke, it's meaningless. If you're botting you can easily make HAMSTER tons of AD with out leadership; leadership is a joke if you bot.
Next stepp, anything from professions will be also bound to account. Enjoy. Just another "logcial" stepp, if botters can get AD from LS, they can also get AD from other professions too. Therefore anything from professions has to become bound in one way or another.
Anyway, the question still stands, what is being done against all the AD through bugs, exploits and botters still ingame? Where're the big plans on cleaning the game from that AD?
Yup, crafting is not playing under the new definition of playing. So therefore all crafting should not reward AD, either directly or through Selling craftAbles. The writing is on the wall.
The next stepp in line is making any purchase from the auction house bound to account. We can't have botters reselling anything for profit.
The following step will be selling "Bind breakers" on the Zen market. For just 10 bucks, you can unbind one item! Oh, and everything else becomes bound on pickup, so you're forced to buy them.
The next stepp in line is making any purchase from the auction house bound to account. We can't have botters reselling anything for profit.
The following step will be selling "Bind breakers" on the Zen market. For just 10 bucks, you can unbind one item! Oh, and everything else becomes bound on pickup, so you're forced to buy them.
No, they can't sell those directly... they have to come from lockboxes with less then 1% drop chance.
And no, i'm not joking. If they want to take this whole thing serious, they have to turn nearly anything into bound to account.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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lordsilveroakMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 17Arc User
I have only a few toons. 1 Main and two others I am working on. I have spent real money to upgrade my leadership because you promised us an increased way to make ads. Now I am looking at all my purple assets in leadership bought with real money and I am scratching my head. Once upon a time we had tons of dungeons and lots of different option on gear that dropped from bosses. Happily I ran tons of exciting and different content. Those sadly are gone. Now I have invested in VIP, something I hoped would be a plus. Please tell me who to talk to to be assured of my investment. I am not comfortable as a business man with your promises. If you think you can have Devs as the back stop of our concerns you are sadly mistaken. Take a look at my spending and how I have dropped it to almost nothing. Use standard accounting and start looking at cash flow and cash flow projections. I no longer feel a need to spend any money based on your track record. I feel for your Devs but lets be honest, some one way higher up better step in and make real change. I have played D&D since it was called chain-mail. I am not a causal player.I look out for my players and guild at a level that you should be embarrassed of. Silver Oak No more gonna fix, no more good things coming, now its time to put up or shut up. I am going to copy and paste this to your company head quarters the folks I guess who bought this game?
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
edited September 2015
Sorry, end of game for me, I like to play solo PvE most of the time so PvP, dungeons and skirmishes are not really an option, leadership was pretty much my only source of ADs and knowing I simply can't progress now is soul destroying after the thousands of hours I've put into NW. I have 12 level 25 leaders and they were earning me enough ADs to make a couple of my characters decent.
What with small guilds like the one I'm in being utterly shafted by the design of strongholds, it appears the designers are trying to destroy this game.
At least if you're going to do this, up the number of RPs the stones that drop out of the leadership boxes give (if you make them B2A that's not a huge problem) or reduce the number everything requires to give me some chance to progress. Also I'm never going to be able to afford the GMoPs I need (I need around 100 atm), some cost reduction or reduction in the number required will be needed.
Those of us who played an older Cryptic game (City of heroes) have seen this all before. There is a definite sense of "You WILL play thye game how we want you to play it, not how you enjoy playing it".
You don't have to invest anything in Leadership to produce AD. You do have to invest in other stuff with AD in order to produce AD with those professions and you're at the mercy of the market to actually make AD using these methods.
Leadership was a copout easy way to produce AD and it was abused. It's beyond time it was eliminated.
wow... that statement is just plain wrong. For me, 20 bucks, 1mill AD, and 200 gaming hours down the drain. I've been doing jewel-crafting for the rings recently, almost lvl 20 in 8 days... now THAT is easy. Been working on the leadership for 5 months now, only half of them got to 20...."don't have to invest anything" ??!! lol
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Sorry, end of game for me, I like to play solo most of the time so dungeons and skirmishes are not really an option, leadership was pretty much my only source of ADs and knowing I simply can't progress now is soul destroying. I have 12 level 25 leaders and they were earning me enough ADs to make a couple of my characters decent.
And that's the biggest problem to them. You're earning AD instead of buying it for $$. People being able to earn anything in game is not a good thing. And there are many examples of this from the past so it's not a new thing. Coal Wards for example.
If this goes through...the last chance I'm giving to NWO will be the sieges. If they actually manage to do something interesting with them, put a spin on the MOBA concept and have some fun gameplay that is based on tactics and group skills...I might keep playing just for that.
But if it turns out (Who am I fooling, of course it will) to be just another version of "4k team kills everyone and you can't even leave the spawn" (And of course once they capture your depot they get teleporting privileges to them...so even killing them doesn't give you any hope of turning the tables) ...well, goodbye. Hope you enjoyed the 10 bucks I spent on the welcome pack, because you won't see any more.
The bonus AD earned from the first 2 runs of something (like a dungeon) do NOT count towards the other AD cap. So your first 2 dungeon runs will earn you 3000 AD each. On top of that, you'll be earning AD from a separate pool based on what you ran. This other pool is what has the daily cap of 7200 AD. For your 3rd+ runs, you'll only be earning from that separate pool.
@goatshark, you are saying AD here, but I'm assuming you actually mean RAD?
the zen market should be made in a way that we WANT to spend money on it, not to FORCE us to spend money on it. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Sorry, end of game for me, I like to play solo most of the time so dungeons and skirmishes are not really an option, leadership was pretty much my only source of ADs and knowing I simply can't progress now is soul destroying. I have 12 level 25 leaders and they were earning me enough ADs to make a couple of my characters decent.
And that's the biggest problem to them. You're earning AD instead of buying it for $$. People being able to earn anything in game is not a good thing. And there are many examples of this from the past so it's not a new thing. Coal Wards for example.
Well I feel thoroughly conned because I spent some real money as the seed to be able to generate the ADs buying slots and converting to ADs to get the faster than normal crafters, I certainly won't be spending any more real money now even if I do stay in game.
The bonus AD earned from the first 2 runs of something (like a dungeon) do NOT count towards the other AD cap. So your first 2 dungeon runs will earn you 3000 AD each. On top of that, you'll be earning AD from a separate pool based on what you ran. This other pool is what has the daily cap of 7200 AD. For your 3rd+ runs, you'll only be earning from that separate pool.
@goatshark, you are saying AD here, but I'm assuming you actually mean RAD?
Yes. We always reward Rough Astral Diamonds. The daily processing cap is still there and has not changed.
Any chance we could get BoA Stronghold Vouchers added to the Leadership loot tables, as compensation for removing the AD? At least for those players who've invested in leveling up the profession it will remain somewhat worthwhile.
And instead of selling AD, botters will sell fully maxed out Strongholds within months.
Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback. I know this is a very touchy subject and everyone feels very passionately about it, which is why I wanted to get information out as soon as I could. I'm going to try and clear up a little confusion, and let you know what we're currently evaluating.
These changes are on Preview right now. They will be going live next week.
The bonus AD earned from the first 2 runs of something (like a dungeon) do NOT count towards the other AD cap. So your first 2 dungeon runs will earn you 3000 AD each. On top of that, you'll be earning AD from a separate pool based on what you ran. This other pool is what has the daily cap of 7200 AD. For your 3rd+ runs, you'll only be earning from that separate pool.
We will be watching what these AD changes do to the average player's holdings. Based off of that data we will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
As I'd mentioned, we are looking into solutions for the solo player to get more AD. I hope to have news there very soon.
We will be evaluating leadership tasks to make sure the required times and rewards make sense.
We are also looking into what we can do to make it less painful AD-wise for alts. I really don't want people to feel that the only way to have the resources necessary to alt is to make a leadership army.
Again, thank you for the feedback. We are listening to what you say, and we're watching data. All of this information together will continue to help us make positive changes to the game.
So basically you don't even have a full plan in place? Just light the fuse and let's see what happens?? Let me be clear, I'm not crying about what will certainly be a loss of personal AD. The economy will adjust, I play the game to play the game, not farm AD. But if I pay for something I expect to use it in the state it was intended for when I purchased it. I'm yet again dismayed at how you guys run your business and the solutions you come up with...and yes, I have PM'd several software rollouts. I understand the need to make dynamic decisions quickly. But one thing always holds constant that IT people forget, the end user is not there to support your product, it's the other way around. You've obviously forgotten that or you never understood that in the first place. I'll still play until the inevitiable will happen, it becomes no fun because everyone else has left.
Smarter people have already fortold the future and actually pointed it out to you. If you 'truly' want to rid the game of botters you need to proactively intercede with human resources. That means paying someone to do it, sorry, just how it goes. Will it ever be perfect? No. If this is another malicious scam to try to pry open people's wallets then you're already too lost. People will pay you money for great content and REASONABLY priced items. You had great content, you've trashed it and are too slow to replace it. I don't think your issue is with available resources to do the work. I think you're focussing on the wrong tasks. Invest in someone who can explain the basics of elasticity of demand and rudimentary economics and you will perhaps understand that you will sell 1000 mounts at $5 instead of 10 mounts at $30.
Comments
You think I enjoy having to do the T2 epic dungeons (Which are just carbon copies of the regular dungeons, only every mook and boss is in "Crapload of HP and one-shot you" mode) just so that I can get decent armor which will be outdated by TWO modules by the time I can get a full set?
You think I enjoy doing the same two skirmishes over and over in hope of getting something that will fetch some decent price at the auction and let me progress that tiny baby step towards overcoming the cash gate that is gearing yourself up?
You think I enjoy spending hours of alternating between Dragon Runs and Tiamat Runs to farm for stones?
No, and in fact here's the thing I enjoy most: going back to EE zones and joining Heroic Encounters. Other players appreciate me for it, and even though I get almost no reward for it it's still something I do solely to break the tedious routine and fight something that isn't dragons, cultists or Thayan. I also enjoyed doing HE runs in the Stronghold with my guild, until the nerf to drop rates (SERIOUSLY? The same reward for a small and a big HE?) made everyone give up on them.
Oh, and also Dragon flight, we have finally put up a plan that allows us to kill two dragons (and many tears have been shed this far over the fact that you have to pay to open a prize you have earned.)
Now, why not reward players that do that with AD, or valuable, tradeable items? Levels scale, so it's not like they can exploit that much. A whole guild making lots of diamonds this way? It's called "group effort", and in this game it gets all but gimped so far.
Botters? You'll have a much bigger problem than botters if you keep restraining your players like that, so just this once try doing something that MIGHT benefit the botters and will SURELY benefit the players, instead of going with the usual approach of doing something that WON'T do anything about the botters and SURELY ruin the players one way or another.
So to put it another way, if you could only earn a max of 100 AD per day would that be a bad thing? Well it depends... It depends on the cost of items. What if GMOP prices dropped to only 100 AD as well as coal wards 500 AD.
I mean its all relative.
Now I am not saying "drop prices on everything!" Would that help? Sure! But why not INSTEAD actually address the bigger issue AD Sinks.
The TWO biggest ad sinks we have are:
1) Enchants
2) Artifacts/Artifact equipment.
So what if they instead of reducing prices of things, tackled making those two areas less of an "ad sink". That would be a positive change for the game no? Now we would have less "botters" farming AD via leadership and now you have legit ways of making AD in game and it could cost less ad to progress.
What do I mean?
I have detailed it out in this post: http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1203664/feedback-2-economic-changes-that-need-to-happen-in-wake-of-this-ad-change-for-a-better-economy?new=1
I really hope people read that. Its TWO small adjustments to the game that would make this entire AD change thing an EXTREMELY positive one! Please read!
its sad really
Enjoy.
Just another "logcial" stepp, if botters can get AD from LS, they can also get AD from other professions too.
Therefore anything from professions has to become bound in one way or another.
Anyway, the question still stands, what is being done against all the AD through bugs, exploits and botters still ingame?
Where're the big plans on cleaning the game from that AD?
We can't have botters reselling anything for profit.
And no, i'm not joking. If they want to take this whole thing serious, they have to turn nearly anything into bound to account.
1 Main and two others I am working on.
I have spent real money to upgrade my leadership because you promised us an increased way to make ads.
Now I am looking at all my purple assets in leadership bought with real money and I am scratching my head.
Once upon a time we had tons of dungeons and lots of different option on gear that dropped from bosses.
Happily I ran tons of exciting and different content.
Those sadly are gone.
Now I have invested in VIP, something I hoped would be a plus.
Please tell me who to talk to to be assured of my investment.
I am not comfortable as a business man with your promises.
If you think you can have Devs as the back stop of our concerns you are sadly mistaken.
Take a look at my spending and how I have dropped it to almost nothing.
Use standard accounting and start looking at cash flow and cash flow projections.
I no longer feel a need to spend any money based on your track record.
I feel for your Devs but lets be honest, some one way higher up better step in and make real change.
I have played D&D since it was called chain-mail. I am not a causal player.I look out for my players and guild at a level that you should be embarrassed of.
Silver Oak
No more gonna fix, no more good things coming, now its time to put up or shut up.
I am going to copy and paste this to your company head quarters the folks I guess who bought this game?
What with small guilds like the one I'm in being utterly shafted by the design of strongholds, it appears the designers are trying to destroy this game.
At least if you're going to do this, up the number of RPs the stones that drop out of the leadership boxes give (if you make them B2A that's not a huge problem) or reduce the number everything requires to give me some chance to progress. Also I'm never going to be able to afford the GMoPs I need (I need around 100 atm), some cost reduction or reduction in the number required will be needed.
Those of us who played an older Cryptic game (City of heroes) have seen this all before. There is a definite sense of "You WILL play thye game how we want you to play it, not how you enjoy playing it".
But if it turns out (Who am I fooling, of course it will) to be just another version of "4k team kills everyone and you can't even leave the spawn" (And of course once they capture your depot they get teleporting privileges to them...so even killing them doesn't give you any hope of turning the tables) ...well, goodbye. Hope you enjoyed the 10 bucks I spent on the welcome pack, because you won't see any more.
They only care about their pocket its been made very clear over the past few months especially.
1 day task, Battle Elemental Cultists: 1 Chest, 3K copper, 500 xP, 250 LxP
4 hr Task, Guard Young Nobles on a Trip: 1 Chest, 3K copper, 1500 xP, 250 LxP
Do you guys even look before you just start deleting stuff?
Smarter people have already fortold the future and actually pointed it out to you. If you 'truly' want to rid the game of botters you need to proactively intercede with human resources. That means paying someone to do it, sorry, just how it goes. Will it ever be perfect? No. If this is another malicious scam to try to pry open people's wallets then you're already too lost. People will pay you money for great content and REASONABLY priced items. You had great content, you've trashed it and are too slow to replace it. I don't think your issue is with available resources to do the work. I think you're focussing on the wrong tasks. Invest in someone who can explain the basics of elasticity of demand and rudimentary economics and you will perhaps understand that you will sell 1000 mounts at $5 instead of 10 mounts at $30.