I would say 1% to 3% from the set bonus itself would be appropriate. The stats already give a bit more than that for those that benefit from them. I actually want choices in my gear (I know a lot of us do) and not having one set so extreme that n other consideration makes sense. Even if they boosted the other sets to the insane level of this set it would only give some classes choices as not every class can benefit from the other sets even if they were made 10 times more powerful to gain equal footing with this one.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
The other sets need boosting to be viable. There should be something decent for committing to a set.
I would also like to see dps set options with belt stats that matches all classes. If you look at belt stats, only the Valindra set really is an option for CW's. A dps set with int on belt would be nice.
I would also like to see dps set options with belt stats that matches all classes. If you look at belt stats, only the Valindra set really is an option for CW's. A dps set with int on belt would be nice.
The lostmauth set will net a CW about a 25% damage increase on average even with the unfavorable stats. This should pretty much reveal its overpowered state to most everyone. GWF's net slightly more and HR and TR tend to follow slightly less. I don't play other classes with this set or have enough parses of their performance with it.
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
so answer is to reduce the object that lets people hit harder?
Those are 2 completely separate arguments. Since not everyone has a lostmauth set (or would benefit equally from it), it doesn't make sense to say those 2 arguments contradict each other.
The lostmauth set will net a CW about a 25% damage increase on average even with the unfavorable stats. This should pretty much reveal its overpowered state to most everyone. GWF's net slightly more and HR and TR tend to follow slightly less. I don't play other classes with this set or have enough parses of their performance with it.
Indeed, that you can pass on the nice effects given by int and still come out far ahead shows how badly tuned the Lostmauth set is.
romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
edited August 2015
Because it is generated by a crit, so within the same attack, it also crits. I mean, sure... they could simply make it roll against your crit chance again seperately, that would tone it down. However, it would cause a huge shitstorm from the people who have invested a lot of RP to rank them up, or simply bought them for a lot of AD. And this is only the smallest nerf to it that comes to my mind. So what happens if you nerf the item itself? It doesn't change the fact that it will be far more profitable for a CW or a GWF, because they have skills that have the mechanics to proc the set effect often and make up to 20-30+% of their total dps, as opposed to HRs and SWs and TRs. Do you know why it works so stupidly well on the CW and the GWF? CWs have 2 damage over time skills, Icy Terrain and Conduit of Ice that proc the additional crit with every single tick. Icy Terrain doesn't have a max target count, that means, you can hit as many opponents with it as many are standing on top of the Icy Terrain. Not to mention that the Lostmauth set not only crits on every proc, it is also influenced by effects that BUFF YOU and DEBUFF THE ENEMY and combat advantage and crit severity. Renegade CW has all of that and that is the most used feat tree right now.
GWF is pretty much in the same shoes, a lot higher base weapon damage, that means that every multiplier that comes after this is going to multiply a much bigger number. And GWFs have insane damage multipliers. I've seen 100k+ lostmauth procs from GWFs during an eCC run with heavy debuffers.
The thing is, even if you nerf the item, it is going to be far more effective for some classes than for other classes. The people who are not using it and are asking for it to be nerfed, are still going to be asking for a nerf, because it gives (in their opinion) an unfair advantage over them. Sure, it will pull classes closer together in terms damage output, but making a GWF or a CW lose 20-30% overall damage will only benefit those who are not using the set out of principle or those who cannot afford it. This is also going to increase overall difficulty, because much of the damage these classes are doing is going to go lost. By nerfing the set instead of introducing other sets of the same caliber, you are only pissing people off. It is NOT a good move from the company's point of view and also not a good move from the player's perspective.
TL;DR: Set is strong in some situations, nerfing the set won't make people consider other options because there are no other options, make new sets that can compete.
It is WAI and not broken, as far as I can see. Sure, it is the best DPs set, but it is not gamebreaking and available to everyone, just as much as most other sets.
Some ppl compared the set with a class skill, thats wrong. I cant use SO with a DC or a CW, but I can get the DC artefact or the set, if I want to spent the time or AD to get it.
If something is the best artefact, set etc, it is not broken, just the best for the purpose intended. If something breaks gameplay mechanics is able to let someone win by spades against similar geared and speced chars, it could need a tone down. Otherwise it is ok.
Neg. enchant, feytouched enchant, lostmouth set etc are very strong, maybe to strong compared to other things, but not broken. There are some game mechanics or maybe the elvenbattle enchant ppl could argue, that they are broken, bc they can negate game mechanics, the set cant do that.
Yeah, only Deep Gash isn't allowed to work that way.
and stormspell
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
It's double broke. It shouldn't be critting and it shouldn't be benefiting for stat increases. It should, best case, be flat weapon damage. Which would still make it extremely good, especially for certain classes, but not as crazy powerful as it is now.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
both gash and stormspell should respect users crit chance.. if they tied lostmouth into that as well.. viola, things are adjusted accordingly. More built a person is, the higher the chance..
That still doesn't bar the need for other sets to be reworked.. (cough.. caugh.. 5% healing bonus.. pathetic.. cough some more. )
It's double broke. It shouldn't be critting and it shouldn't be benefiting for stat increases. It should, best case, be flat weapon damage. Which would still make it extremely good, especially for certain classes, but not as crazy powerful as it is now.
I dare to disagree. First of all, there are many feats etc, that give you a +HAMSTER% of weapon damage and most of them can crit and scale. Second argument is, that they scaled it back before. You know, the ppl who program this thing and decide what is broken and what is not, called DEVs.
You have to love, how so many ppl KNOW BETTER, than the DEVs, what the DEVs intended and sell their opinion as facts.
As I said before, if something is game breaking, it is broken, imo. Other things might be BIS, OP or something else and everyone is entiteled to his or her opinion, but as long as there is no 'developer', 'system designer' etc. written under their name, it is a opinion and should be voiced as that, not as a fact.
For example WOEs dmg buff was OP and got toned down. OP, not broken IMO. Activation in a corner resulting in 3 stacking WOE buffs was clearly not intended and broken, IMO. Dragon glyphs with p. dmg were VERY OP, but WAI. GF with KV and blue glyphs resulting in everyone killing himself, when they attacked him or his teammates was gamebreaking and in my eyes broken.
We know what the devs intended with the set bonuses as they clearly stated they were not to contribute much in effect, and this set bonus clearly contributes the most out of any power/skill/etc for many classes.
It's double broke. It shouldn't be critting and it shouldn't be benefiting for stat increases. It should, best case, be flat weapon damage. Which would still make it extremely good, especially for certain classes, but not as crazy powerful as it is now.
I dare to disagree. First of all, there are many feats etc, that give you a +HAMSTER% of weapon damage and most of them can crit and scale. Second argument is, that they scaled it back before. You know, the ppl who program this thing and decide what is broken and what is not, called DEVs.
You have to love, how so many ppl KNOW BETTER, than the DEVs, what the DEVs intended and sell their opinion as facts.
As I said before, if something is game breaking, it is broken, imo. Other things might be BIS, OP or something else and everyone is entiteled to his or her opinion, but as long as there is no 'developer', 'system designer' etc. written under their name, it is a opinion and should be voiced as that, not as a fact.
For example WOEs dmg buff was OP and got toned down. OP, not broken IMO. Activation in a corner resulting in 3 stacking WOE buffs was clearly not intended and broken, IMO. Dragon glyphs with p. dmg were VERY OP, but WAI. GF with KV and blue glyphs resulting in everyone killing himself, when they attacked him or his teammates was gamebreaking and in my eyes broken.
We know what the devs intended with the set bonuses as they clearly stated they were not to contribute much in effect, and this set bonus clearly contributes the most out of any power/skill/etc for many classes and is contrary to their stated goal.
You make a strange appeal to authority in your argument based on the fallacy that something existing in a broken state is obviously WAI because the devs wrote the combination of code that caused it to be broken. You reinforce your position by mocking those bringing to light the broken nature of the item with circular reasoning going back to your original irrational position -- and you dismiss those who actually back the only official dev statements given on artifact set bonus by again relying upon your base flawed logic.
Anyone with the slightest bit of evaluation skills could compare the various set bonuses and quickly spot which one does not fall inline with the others. The way you defend this item with such a vehement and flawed method suggest you have taken an emotional stance instead of a logical one
I went for the val set and put too much refine points in it to change to the lol set. It's like a lottery - I've bet on a nerf of the lol set and I lost, of course I'm jalous but have to accept it.
Probably the dev have to change the lol set in the future, otherwise they would have created a similar situation as the set boni of the past armor sets (HV, HP, AoW, ...) - the set boni were too good and nobody used the new armor sets.
If they don't change the lol set and the future sets are inferior, the future sets will be ignored. If they make future sets even better than lol set, the artifact set bonus would be too important compared to armor set bonus, companion bonus, personal boons ....
People are exaggerating, but it doesnt mean its not true.
It isn't "broken" but it is definately unbalanced, no other item set works on this level.
it provides as much damage as having another encounter slotted. It's similar to when deepgash was broken and ticked for crazy damage.
When other classes that don't benefit much from str/dex, start using it as BiS, then you know something isn't working right.
I agree on the fact, that it is BIS and might be to strong, but deep gash was 40% of GWFs dps, Lostmouth is up to 20-25%, depending on class and build, as far as I know. Furthermore it is available to every player.
I wont cry, if Devs decide to tone it down, even if I would prefer a boost to the other sets, but I really cant stand the 'modus operandi', to call everyone and everything a) 'broken' and b) 'bug user', if something is a) OP in someones opinion and b) someone else 'dares' to use it.
When the set was released I decided for myself, that it is 'to good to be true' and did NOT get it. To no ones surprise, it got toned down. After that adjustment I looked at the bonus and decided to go for it, bc still is better then everything else in this game. If mobs would not have this unrealistic CC immunity (I think they all get a t.elvenbattle enchant, when they hit lvl 71+), VT would be preferable for CWs.
Everyone playing this game for some time has seen his fair share of bugs and broken mechanics. If everything is called broken and buggy, the real bugs and broken mechanics will vanish in a cloud of exaggerated opinions.
Name a strong enchant, set, artefact, feat, build etc and you will find a post claiming, that it is broken.
We know what the devs intended with the set bonuses as they clearly stated they were not to contribute much in effect, and this set bonus clearly contributes the most out of any power/skill/etc for many classes and is contrary to their stated goal....
You know, that they did tone it down before, right. As I said in a previous post, IMO it was 'to good to be true' and I did not get it BEFORE the nerf. Now, AFTER the Devs looked at its effect and changed the mechanic, I went for the set. Where is the 'flawed logic', when I assume, that a concrete action by the Devs, targeting this specific set, resetting its effects is a more accurate measure of their intention, than a vague general statement?
Is it still the best dps set, yes. Is it stronger, then the other sets, yes. is it broken, no. Will they rework the setboni, maybe.
Been broke, still broke, still no official word, countless threads asking for one, countless threads discussing...
Stormspell, which was essentially an class feature that did the same thing, was nerfed, yet the LM set stays untouched. Unfortunately, there has been absolutely zero communication or work on it in over four months. As to why that is...who knows. My personal take on it has swung around to agreeing with something someone said months ago:
Comments
The lostmauth set will net a CW about a 25% damage increase on average even with the unfavorable stats. This should pretty much reveal its overpowered state to most everyone. GWF's net slightly more and HR and TR tend to follow slightly less. I don't play other classes with this set or have enough parses of their performance with it.
I crit about every 3-4 hits... which is inline with my crit %.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Those are 2 completely separate arguments. Since not everyone has a lostmauth set (or would benefit equally from it), it doesn't make sense to say those 2 arguments contradict each other.
Indeed, that you can pass on the nice effects given by int and still come out far ahead shows how badly tuned the Lostmauth set is.
GWF is pretty much in the same shoes, a lot higher base weapon damage, that means that every multiplier that comes after this is going to multiply a much bigger number. And GWFs have insane damage multipliers. I've seen 100k+ lostmauth procs from GWFs during an eCC run with heavy debuffers.
The thing is, even if you nerf the item, it is going to be far more effective for some classes than for other classes. The people who are not using it and are asking for it to be nerfed, are still going to be asking for a nerf, because it gives (in their opinion) an unfair advantage over them. Sure, it will pull classes closer together in terms damage output, but making a GWF or a CW lose 20-30% overall damage will only benefit those who are not using the set out of principle or those who cannot afford it. This is also going to increase overall difficulty, because much of the damage these classes are doing is going to go lost. By nerfing the set instead of introducing other sets of the same caliber, you are only pissing people off. It is NOT a good move from the company's point of view and also not a good move from the player's perspective.
TL;DR: Set is strong in some situations, nerfing the set won't make people consider other options because there are no other options, make new sets that can compete.
Some ppl compared the set with a class skill, thats wrong. I cant use SO with a DC or a CW, but I can get the DC artefact or the set, if I want to spent the time or AD to get it.
If something is the best artefact, set etc, it is not broken, just the best for the purpose intended. If something breaks gameplay mechanics is able to let someone win by spades against similar geared and speced chars, it could need a tone down. Otherwise it is ok.
Neg. enchant, feytouched enchant, lostmouth set etc are very strong, maybe to strong compared to other things, but not broken. There are some game mechanics or maybe the elvenbattle enchant ppl could argue, that they are broken, bc they can negate game mechanics, the set cant do that.
Yeah, only Deep Gash isn't allowed to work that way.
and stormspell
That still doesn't bar the need for other sets to be reworked.. (cough.. caugh.. 5% healing bonus.. pathetic.. cough some more. )
I dare to disagree. First of all, there are many feats etc, that give you a +HAMSTER% of weapon damage and most of them can crit and scale. Second argument is, that they scaled it back before. You know, the ppl who program this thing and decide what is broken and what is not, called DEVs.
You have to love, how so many ppl KNOW BETTER, than the DEVs, what the DEVs intended and sell their opinion as facts.
As I said before, if something is game breaking, it is broken, imo. Other things might be BIS, OP or something else and everyone is entiteled to his or her opinion, but as long as there is no 'developer', 'system designer' etc. written under their name, it is a opinion and should be voiced as that, not as a fact.
For example WOEs dmg buff was OP and got toned down. OP, not broken IMO. Activation in a corner resulting in 3 stacking WOE buffs was clearly not intended and broken, IMO. Dragon glyphs with p. dmg were VERY OP, but WAI. GF with KV and blue glyphs resulting in everyone killing himself, when they attacked him or his teammates was gamebreaking and in my eyes broken.
People are exaggerating, but it doesnt mean its not true.
It isn't "broken" but it is definately unbalanced, no other item set works on this level.
it provides as much damage as having another encounter slotted. It's similar to when deepgash was broken and ticked for crazy damage.
When other classes that don't benefit much from str/dex, start using it as BiS, then you know something isn't working right.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
We know what the devs intended with the set bonuses as they clearly stated they were not to contribute much in effect, and this set bonus clearly contributes the most out of any power/skill/etc for many classes and is contrary to their stated goal.
You make a strange appeal to authority in your argument based on the fallacy that something existing in a broken state is obviously WAI because the devs wrote the combination of code that caused it to be broken. You reinforce your position by mocking those bringing to light the broken nature of the item with circular reasoning going back to your original irrational position -- and you dismiss those who actually back the only official dev statements given on artifact set bonus by again relying upon your base flawed logic.
Anyone with the slightest bit of evaluation skills could compare the various set bonuses and quickly spot which one does not fall inline with the others. The way you defend this item with such a vehement and flawed method suggest you have taken an emotional stance instead of a logical one
Probably the dev have to change the lol set in the future, otherwise they would have created a similar situation as the set boni of the past armor sets (HV, HP, AoW, ...) - the set boni were too good and nobody used the new armor sets.
If they don't change the lol set and the future sets are inferior, the future sets will be ignored. If they make future sets even better than lol set, the artifact set bonus would be too important compared to armor set bonus, companion bonus, personal boons ....
I agree on the fact, that it is BIS and might be to strong, but deep gash was 40% of GWFs dps, Lostmouth is up to 20-25%, depending on class and build, as far as I know. Furthermore it is available to every player.
I wont cry, if Devs decide to tone it down, even if I would prefer a boost to the other sets, but I really cant stand the 'modus operandi', to call everyone and everything a) 'broken' and b) 'bug user', if something is a) OP in someones opinion and b) someone else 'dares' to use it.
When the set was released I decided for myself, that it is 'to good to be true' and did NOT get it. To no ones surprise, it got toned down. After that adjustment I looked at the bonus and decided to go for it, bc still is better then everything else in this game. If mobs would not have this unrealistic CC immunity (I think they all get a t.elvenbattle enchant, when they hit lvl 71+), VT would be preferable for CWs.
Everyone playing this game for some time has seen his fair share of bugs and broken mechanics. If everything is called broken and buggy, the real bugs and broken mechanics will vanish in a cloud of exaggerated opinions.
Name a strong enchant, set, artefact, feat, build etc and you will find a post claiming, that it is broken.
You know, that they did tone it down before, right. As I said in a previous post, IMO it was 'to good to be true' and I did not get it BEFORE the nerf. Now, AFTER the Devs looked at its effect and changed the mechanic, I went for the set. Where is the 'flawed logic', when I assume, that a concrete action by the Devs, targeting this specific set, resetting its effects is a more accurate measure of their intention, than a vague general statement?
Is it still the best dps set, yes. Is it stronger, then the other sets, yes. is it broken, no. Will they rework the setboni, maybe.
Stormspell, which was essentially an class feature that did the same thing, was nerfed, yet the LM set stays untouched. Unfortunately, there has been absolutely zero communication or work on it in over four months. As to why that is...who knows. My personal take on it has swung around to agreeing with something someone said months ago: