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Perma CC has got the be removed
vaulwyn
Member Posts: 94 Arc User
Almost every match I enter I run into either a Trapper HR or TR running smoke plus slowing enchant, both of these classes literally turn of control of your character from the start of the fight to the end, from 100%-0% they for all intents and purposes unplug you keyboard and mouse.
This is obvious not fair in any sense of the word, there is no way to justify this, so my question is why is this being allowed when it is obviously broken?
This is obvious not fair in any sense of the word, there is no way to justify this, so my question is why is this being allowed when it is obviously broken?
GF - Sigh
Post edited by vaulwyn on
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I wish people would stop focusing on TRs as the bad guys. Like Batman said... I guess we are the heroes you deserve but not the heroes you need.
My question is this... since when is a HR, SW, DC, GWF and OP listed as Controllers? That I know of there are 3 classes with control abilities... TR, GF and CW... ranked in order of least amount of CC to greater.
...so what's exactly stopping you from dodging out of Smokebomb before it takes effect?
(ps) There is no "slow enchantment" in game. The very fact that you mention this kind of thing makes people wonder if it's really a balance problem, or just you not playing very well.
There is one... Trans Terror will root someone.
However... Smoke Bomb dropped while stealthed will cause a Slow effect. Unless you have been hit with Courage Breaker... you can run out or dodge out of smoke.
I know terror roots, but he mentioned 'slows'. Also, if he can't even tell the difference between normal slows and CB, then that's another proof right there the guy doesn't really know much about TRs.
How does anyone expect to be able to fight and win against something they don't know about at all? It's like a professional fighter entering a ring against an opponent without studying any footage or records. Even the best of professional fighters in real life spend a huge amount of time studying the other guy in order to win... and yet, these players in this game don't know anything about how the mechanics of the opponent's class works, and they're angry that they are losing.
It just doesn't make sense to me.
I have been in the game 3+ months and I am just learning to predict what the other classes will do... because I play some of them.
Yeah unless the GF is running Tactician build then he has 1 second of prone which doesn't normally last even 1 second.
So tell me how 1 second or even 3 at best for a Tact equates to the 6-10 seconds of complete loss of control? It is laughable that you even try to compare them.
Dodge? tell yah what you tell me where my GF dodge button is and I will jump right on that.
What ever the slow effect is it is impossible to get out of the cloud, if you are a GF and it pops on you while you do not have your shield up you will die long before you get halfway out of the cloud.
If you are near my gear level "3.3k-3.4k depending on enchants" its highly unlikely you can beat me 1v1, if you can you can thank TRs broken mechanics, the synergy between Neg and dodge is OP not to mention ITC. Dodge alone is broken with near perma invulnerability while out of stealth. Do not make assumptions about someone, you do not know jack about me.
That would be a great solution I think, I would certainly like to try for a while to know if it was enough. The problem though is if your dead because it was CC from 100%-Dead you get no chance at immunity. Current daze durations are far to long.
I don't mind That a CW can CC the absolute bejeezus out of me when they spec for it. But I do dislike when a rogue can daze me, stealth, daze me, roll away, daze me, smoke and recharge, then repeat. I think that solution would be GREAT on dazes (so you cannot be chain dazed, think of it like your character is getting used to the hits so the dazes are less effective) and if we were too add one too CC just add a small CC resist buff after a CC ends for a short time (like 1-2 seconds) something that doesnt negate the CC. but makes infinite chains not possible.
CW / Stun/root / daze CCer should be able to "control", thats what they do, and why they deal less damage (except in the case of Sab rogue, dat OP Piercing DPS nerf plox) , they give up damage for the increased ability to control you. I do agree however that Indefinite / true perma cc, shouldn't be possible, same as true oneshot dps and immortal tanks shouldnt be possible.
Also. doesnt trans bilethorn add a slow (too those talking about slow enchants)
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
I also think WOW handled CC very well, diminishing returns which overlapped with other CC, so two separate classes could not keep someone locked down indefinitely.
yeah It's a good way to do it. It makes CC strong still, without being too strong or frustrating.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
In that case let me retract my first statement since it doesn't seem like you're a total newbie. My apologies.
However, it is still a matter of general combat management you seem to be lacking, as there clearly are GFs who can manage to fight against TRs. Smokebomb takes around 15s recharge, and lasts for 6 seconds, but also has around 1s of activation time once it is detonated. Most difficult GF players I've seen simply go shields-up, walk-out, and retaliate.
Of course, I will not questions the situation that happens afterwards as I already know Sabos are broken, and they can simply pop back into stealth without hesitation and then start to fire up those bullshi* CoS attacks. But that's a problem with Sabos and their impregnable combat rotations, and not about CCs at all.
Currently, there is no "perma-CC" for TRs. Whatever fantasy of "perma-CCs" ceased to exist the moment mod6 arrived.
Then you've obviously not played gladitorial arena battles with people who know how to PvP in WoW. Trained, coordinated members of an arena team can keep someone CCd for at the least 10~15 secs.
Take into notice that the average CC times in WoW are much longer than in NW -- it's around 6~10 secs. In NW, I'm a full-CC invested Oppressor and my longest single CC lasts for maybe 4.5 seconds on people with tenacity. For SS-CWs, their EF lasts like 1.5 seconds.
Your right I am not a newb, I am guild mate to Azrael and easily a top 10 GF only the fact that I am not BiS keeps me from being a contender from top GF overall.
Now then let me clue you in on how shield block works with GF, there is a Delay it is not instant add to that any latency issues and it is nothing but pure luck that a GF "seems" to raise his shield in response to smoke bomb. What is happing is skilled GFs tend to predict and will drop guard briefly to bait a smoke bomb then immediately raise guard again to clear it.
So as I was saying if smoke hits you you can not raise shield or use any ability at all and the top TRs are using something do not know what it is but it slows movement so much that you basically can not move, so you will die 100% of the time unless someone else inter-veins on your behalf.
The same goes for Trapper HRs, frozen in place unable to move, turn, or use abilities. You die in place. CWs can also do this they just do not have the level of consistency that TR and HR do.
And yes I have played gladiatorial arena, I was in Top guilds on Both Black Dragon flight PVE server and Mugthol the top PVP server.
Granted I have not played wow in like 6-8 years, but did a LOT of arena before quitting WOW. If things have changed in that time I wouldn't know, but during my stent CC could be chained it just lost a LOT of its duration, they understood how much of a problem CC was, nothing is more powerful than one shots or unplugging you opponent.
As to duration of CC in WOW, I disagree they are similar in duration but in WOW toons are a bit more resilient across the board. The thing is WOW has had a lot more time to balance, trust me the community did a lot of complaining about Rogue, Mage and Druid CC most of the ten years I played. But they listened as well and something was done about it. Diminishing returns was one of the best balance measure they took.
You're right, which is extremely embarrassing for me. My apologies to vaulwyn -- while I am extremely skeptical anyone actually uses T.Bilethorn at all in mod6 (...except me..), regardless, I acknowledge there is, in fact, an enchantment that slows, and therefore the shame of any comment of mine that might have been insulting or derogatory befalls me.
...not to mention the realization of this fact actually hit me a moment of epiphany of the next experimental build I'd like to try out with a certain class....
I wanted to try it too but finding someone with a bilethorn these days is hard.. i would like to know how much strong that slow it
gushing wounds bleeding..bug..last for the whole mod 6 i guess
DC can cast AA , cleanse did work not sure since last patches
warlock can´t do a lot against it except stay on distance and shift and dot him, or cc him
GWF can go unstoppable
lots of cc resist, like some paladins have, is best counter, can´t say if there are some artifact that rise your cc resist effectively
its anyoing, but there are far worse thing on the run
play a warlock and enjoy multiproccing thunderhead, feytouched (new since patch I guess), bloodtheft (back again), Thayan bastion, avalanche and a lot more of funny broken feats enchants and stuff that kills you in seconds through all defence, in case you dot the enemy (what else shoud a warlock do, embrace the target?)
TR is the one who runs lol-set and kills you out of stealth with cos and piercing damage, but perma cc? not in this mod until now
since patch I meet more CW´s with this fu..ing icy ray + frozen terrain who can 100% perma stun me in case i do not wear elven enchant (its more my DC that suffers from these guys), if i slept and did not dodge out of the blue
GF (you) is the one that triple marks enemys and passes tenacity and even T-Negation enchant doing so, no other class can do so
In case of my OPP-CWs invested in CC stats and Icy Veins, a pre-emptive Icy Terrain is about the only thing needed to break permastunning since the routine inadvertently includes a melee attack sequence to reinforce the root duration and reapply dazes and stuff -- in which case the moment they set foot into melee range a quick-shot of Disintegrate triggers I.V. and therefore "quick-freeze"... and from that point on the initiative is transferred to the OPP-CW which reverses the situation to give them a taste of their own medicine.
Of course, in the rare cases there are some trappers which induces such quick dazes in succession that you can't fire off anything at all, in which case your only hope is that they make a mistake at some point and allow enough time in-between dazes to fire off IT. Once IT is set, then the permastun routine is as good as broken. If not, then it's downhill all the way.
It does, but the slow is pretty weak. Slows become noticeably effective around 30% or more, becomes a real factor at 40% -- empirically speaking when a 40% slow sets in (i.e. Vengeance's Pursuit/Determined Pursuit) this amount is strong enough to slow down your target enough to hit melee at-will combos stably, as long as the effect is in duration.
My guess about the T.Bilethorn slow... seeing how it supposedly stacks according to the description, the individual stack would probably be really low in effect.. maybe 10% at most... so at 3 stacks for 30% then when this is combined with other short-slows it could be noticeably powerful.
If it's like 5% per stack or something like that, then it' worthless.
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