test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

How can Strongholds be Balanced?

tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
edited May 2015 in General Discussion (PC)
I'm very excited in principal about Strongholds.

In practice, I'm very skeptical. It seems that the few, elite PVP guilds will have a tremendous advantage compared to the rest of the server population. What's to stop them from methodically destroying the strongholds of modest guilds?

I'm sure Cryptic already has a pretty solid idea of what they want to accomplish, but hopefully is still able to incorporate player feedback about the design of the expansion. With this post, I would like to solicit thoughts on how to keep non-elites interested and engaged, without simply nerfing the strong PVP guilds.
Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Post edited by tripsofthrymr on
«13

Comments

  • ryfghbvryfghbv Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Already knowing how Cryptic acts, maybe they actually buff the pvp elite guilds thinking something like: "yep, it didn't works, at least make P2W players have fun there"
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I don't think it works the way you think it works.

    I suspect it works a lot like the Star Trek Online "Fleet Starbases" work: the guild leaders choose specific projects to enhance and build-up the starba... er, Stronghold... to add additional functionality; for example: Barracks (as stated in announcement) - new functionality begets new perks like special vendors who sell special gear or special mounts - often better than what you can buy in the Zen Market (yes, really).

    As for the "defend against nature and other players" thing... I'm thinking that's an instanced PvP and not open-world PvP like Iceland Dale - because that just wouldn't make any sense. But then again, they have come up with some bizarre ideas before.

    ~shrugs~
  • powerpuffponypowerpuffpony Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I would speculate that guilds would need to opt-in to do stronghold PvP against other guilds. If a guild does not opt-in then their stronghold can not be attacked by players.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • powerpuffponypowerpuffpony Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I agree magenubbie as I am in the same position as you.
  • pancakeattaxpancakeattax Member Posts: 191 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    Get Reeeeeeeeeeeekkkt : 3
  • vitizaxvitizax Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Ill tell you how will it work, the guild that pays more Zen (or AD, but AD=zen), will win.

    No skill involved, no strategy, just like actual pvp.
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    powerpuffpony wrote: »
    I would speculate that guilds would need to opt-in to do stronghold PvP against other guilds. If a guild does not opt-in then their stronghold can not be attacked by players.
    magenubbie wrote: »
    I'd certainly hope so. I run a small guild and I have no desire to PvP, let alone against EoA or some other BiS guild.

    I third this emotion. I run a large, but casual/PvE focused guild. While some of our members like to cut their teeth in PvP, I'd like options that didn't force our members to engage in non-consenual PvP.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I don't expect it to be balanced...

    ...would be kind of a first, wouldn't it?
  • instynctiveinstynctive Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    I third this emotion. I run a large, but casual/PvE focused guild. While some of our members like to cut their teeth in PvP, I'd like options that didn't force our members to engage in non-consenual PvP.

    This is exactly what I'm discussing with my guild officers now.
    header.png
    "...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Zomg, no info has been released yet and PvE extremists are already pissing their pants. Dafuq is your problem, guys? Can't PvPers get a bone this time around?
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The guild war part is most likely instanced PvP event running in scheduled time frame like that in Forsaken World so the weaker guilds won't get slaughtered in open world since Cryptic never mentioned anything about open world PvP. However, if this is like Forsaken World, Stronghold winner buff also extends to PvE too. That will still give the elite guilds all the advantages in PvE too.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I predict that all of the "elite", "hardcore" PVP players will all join the same PVP guild and then complain that they have no worthy opponents to fight...
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There will probably be several strongholds so it wont be occupied by 1 or 2 BIS geared guilds. They should also make alliances (like up to 3 or 5 guilds can form an alliance under the same tag. This would split the pvpers in to 2 sides and lead to nice pvp.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    quspiv wrote: »
    There will probably be several strongholds so it wont be occupied by 1 or 2 BIS geared guilds. They should also make alliances (like up to 3 or 5 guilds can form an alliance under the same tag. This would split the pvpers in to 2 sides and lead to nice pvp.

    Oh come on.

    The PVPers aren't going to split into 2 sides. They didn't even choose different GG factions when GG still had factions.
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    pointsman wrote: »
    I predict that all of the "elite", "hardcore" PVP players will all join the same PVP guild and then complain that they have no worthy opponents to fight...

    ...like ye goode awlde Gauntlgrym? Probably.

    pointsman wrote: »
    Oh come on.

    The PVPers aren't going to split into 2 sides. They didn't even choose different GG factions when GG still had factions.

    There you're wrong - they did. Most high-end PvP-players (and guilds) had a mirror image on the other side: Often the same - or rather, identical chars on either side, and the same guild name with a wee modification. Just - to keep everybody's KDR-epeen nice and straight and up, ofc there was a plan when which side was the PvP-ers side - and the other side just were canned cannon fodder PUGs.

    I deem the probability we'll see the like in Strongholds only marginally below 100%.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I truly don't accept the PvE vs. PvP hate, and that's from both sides...

    Allow me to clarify: I understand where the sides come from, but I don't accept it because it's asinine.

    Play the game how you want to play.

    I mainly PvE, but I am familiar with PvP. I'd prefer Stonghold to have both elements, while also allowing for both sides to opt in to their own preferred playstyle. However, I expect, the reality to be a combination of both.

    Looking forward to how the new Dev Team works on this project, because thus far they have been improving the game steadily over the last few weeks. Far from perfect yes, but progress is made weekly.

    Either way, we have so few facts that's it's a complete waste of time to argue about PvE vs. PvP in reference to Mod 7.

    Then again, I'm only using logic here, not like that ever works on the Internet! :cool:
    va8Ru.gif
  • instynctiveinstynctive Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    No "doom and gloom" here.

    But I do find it funny that they'll make a super vague announcement, then give absolutely no information...


    But it's good to see the "wallet warriors" (I love that! lol) getting all bent out of shape at the PvE casual players... lol
    header.png
    "...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
  • karakla1karakla1 Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I am curious about it.

    It could be somekind of PvE & PvP Crossplayer Content. It looks like that we can clean a Stronghold to own it and improve it. To give us a spot to gather with the guild, improve the Stronghold and protecting some peasants around the Stronghold to get a some kind of bonus.

    Then it could be somekind of PvE Crossplay: You invade with your Guild another Stronghold and the other Guild simply set up Monsters, Traps, etc to get on the loot in the Stronghold which is necessary to upgrade the Stronghold itself. Cool would be to set up your companions to defend the Stronghold as well.

    But for sure it sounds interesting.
    plat.png
    Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • loosestellaloosestella Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    kolatmaster wrote: »

    Looking forward to how the new Dev Team works on this project, because thus far they have been improving the game steadily over the last few weeks. Far from perfect yes, but progress is made weekly.
    Allow me to clarify: EXCEPT this week of course. Or did you not get that memo?
    Yup, its as if we bought what we thought was a home (with our attention, time and for many, money) but instead it was a hotel room, and mod 6 was checkout day.
  • jaotutjaotut Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    pointsman wrote: »
    Oh come on.

    The PVPers aren't going to split into 2 sides. They didn't even choose different GG factions when GG still had factions.

    Shows how much people know (or don't know) and just assumes then make things up. I can say for at least EoA, we originally moved from Delzon (the heavily weighted winning side) to Luskan, and the main reason was that we could get into GG PvP straight away at anytime without needing to spam F at the gate 2 seconds before it starts. Sure there were a few other PvP guilds that moved to Luskans at that time too, but it's not like we've consulted with other guilds to change factions at the same time with us because we want to have easy games.

    This guy needs to lay off bashing PvP guilds and make them all sound like bad guys. People like him creates hatred in this world that's unnecessary.
    Merlin - CW Merlyn - HR Psylocke - TR Black Widow - GWF


    Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
  • zoiks100zoiks100 Member Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I would expect the pvp part to be pretty much consensual.

    Probably they just created a generic stronghold map for pvp, with features being unlocked for the defending/attacking sides based on what they've unlocked in their actual strongholds, and they add a special guild queue for it. I doubt you'll even be able to pick who you play against if it's actual player vs. player, and most likely it'll be limited party sizes (probably 5 v 5).

    Another possibility is that it isn't true player vs. player at all and it's more like the foundry. With the guild master setting up the stronghold map and other guilds selecting it from a list for their guild to "raid". I would hope not since they've never gotten their foundry working well here, every major patch resulting in long periods of downtime and manual resetting.

    Either way, I can't imagine it would be anything especially complex or interesting, they don't have the manpower or game engine to implement anything like that.
    Don't Panic.
    airplane-2-o.gif
    Okay, Panic.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • omegaospreyomegaosprey Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    macjae wrote: »
    This expansion looks like something the game has been missing.

    What they NEED to do to make this game succeed is to make an activity called "stronghold raiding" and make it NON-CONSENSUAL. All players in guilds will have a certain minimum part of their assets "bound to guild," made available for stronghold raiding. For example, the first 1 million AD on each character, not too large a sum. A guild can then attack another guild and engage in a battle, and the margin of victory determines how much of the losing guild's bound assets are transferred to the winners. If the win is by say 1,000-850, that's a 15% margin, so 15% of the losing guild's assets are forfeit.

    Of course, in order to prevent sheer numbers from prevailing, only a limited number of champions from each guild are allowed to participate.

    THEN, they can add guild alliance systems, so that guilds are allowed to get PROTECTION from stronger guilds, who can champion the weaker guilds in stronghold raids, against a modest fee, of course. This would obviously be a recurring arrangement, with WEAK guilds using their time to FARM and pay for protection from STRONG guilds that spend their time mastering the arts of WAR.

    This would be a great step forwards in the history of the game -- a system that is truly appropriate to the setting -- MERCILESS and FEUDAL. Finally, it would evolve a proper ecosystem in the game among the game's players, with APEX PREDATORS controlling the mightiest stronghold alliances. In order to FARM the ENVIRONMENT in peace and be protected from the apex predators, many players would need to pay TAXES to their new overlords.

    What a glorious module that would be.


    I believe what you are seeking is here: http://www.eveonline.com/
Sign In or Register to comment.