test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
cw with negation enchantment ( and i am cw )
mamalion1234
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
ONE thing i will say:)CW with negation enchantment dont need dodge.THE new cw style is : ray of frost negations stacks carry me i dont dodge freeze knife or disintegrate.BUT QQ 2 cw with negations enemies i couldnt kill them but qq they lost the match NEGATION dont buy hands always:).
![[URL=auplod.com/i-ldoupaa9270.html][IMG]http://www.auplod.com/t/ldoupaa9270.png[/IMG][/URL]]([URL=http://www.auplod.com/i-ldoupaa9270.html][IMG]http://www.auplod.com/t/ldoupaa9270.png[/IMG][/URL]){kind=link}
Post edited by mamalion1234 on
0
Comments
Either rework negation or dial back Shield. It's ridiculous that a tiny cloth-wearing bookworm is this tanky, and on par with Fighters.
CW's being on-par with Fighters was NOT intended, here's a quote from a dev back then
Right gentlemancrush..... right
30% bonus DR is most certainly a problem.
Shield on tab is a multiplier.But also a FLAT SEPARATE DR LAYER.
80%/50%/25%.
Can i prove it?ofcourse i can!!
Log changed the name of the CW,a hint though.He is a former 22k CW BiS CW with 9% Dr in mod6,nothing personal with him)
......CW Shield absorbs 3019 damage from your Lunging Strike. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 49 damage from your Bronzewood Weapon. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Lunging Strike deals 2232 (15875) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 36 (149) Arcane Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 39 damage from your Bronzewood Weapon. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 2171 damage from your Bull Charge. [Combat (Self)] Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 73 (163) Arcane Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Bull Charge deals 4032 (8988) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 465 damage from your Tenebrous Power. [Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 864 (2359) Necrotic Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 474 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 42 damage from your Bronzewood Weapon. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 881 (3692) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 78 (189) Arcane Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 173 damage from your Jagged Blades. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 380 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Your Jagged Blades deals 322 (1103) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 706 (3687) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 333 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 619 (3469) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 327 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 608 (3536) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 370 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 687 (3994) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 344 damage from your Flourish. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Flourish deals 638 (3712) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! TR deals 1101 (3926) Poison Damage to you with Smoke Bomb. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 272 damage from your Aggravating Strike. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 12 damage from your Bronzewood Weapon. [Combat (Self)] CW Shield absorbs 189 damage from your Jagged Blades. [Combat (Self)] Your Aggravating Strike deals 505 (3515) Physical Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 22 (155) Arcane Damage to CW. [Combat (Self)] Your Jagged Blades deals 350 (1103) Physical Damage to CW......
As you all see in log CW ,mitigates at average about 70-85% of each hit.Bearing in mind this is a mod6 log,and the CW in question has 9% DR.So we are certain that Shield does not work as Devs designed it.
Ok let's evaluate these numbers please.Cw in question has 9% DR. With 80% /50%/25% multiplier the final Dr would be:
Final DR after shield empowermend: 16.2%/ 13.5%/ 11.25%.
How much tenacity would had?I make a safe bet.Around 40%.
Let's take the first hit:
Your Lunging Strike deals 2232 (15875) Physical Damage to CW.
In that hit CW mitigated 86% of it!
How is that possible?As you see in log no other event was registered.No thayan bastion no cold shoulder nothing.
If shield would work as per tooltip Cw should had mitigated no more that 16,2% and then from that sum another 40% from tenacity.
So the result would be:13303 after DR and then 7981 after tenacity.
7981.According to WAI tooltips.yet the Cw only got 2232.How much is 2232 to 7981? 27.96%.
So after WAI mechanisms the hit was mysteriously reduced by another 72%.Awfully clear to 80% don't you think?
What is that 72%?Tenacity is calculated ,Dr is calculated.
Let's take another hit,second, shield in 50%.
Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 36 (149) Arcane Damage to CW
Here mitigation is again 75.84%.
If tooltip and shield was WAI he should get : (100-13,5%)=86.5% of the hit.
X=(86.5x149):100=128.88~128. After 40% tenacity: (60x128)/100=76.8.
if things were WAI or as CWs support CW should have taken 76.8 hit.How much he take?36.How much is 36 to 76.8?
Near ~50%......Add tenacity more or less and here you have it.
An additional DR layer at 80%/50%/ 25%.
Verdict for who ever wants to see(except CWs ofcourse ) is crystal clear.
PROVE ME WRONG : ) :P
Edit:The CW in question was wearing the new BI rank4 tier armor i think so tenacity would be a litlle less than 40%.That makes almost perfect match with my calculations.
CW is wayyyyyy tankeir than fighters.Average fighters have 30-35% DR.Block is 80% but only from front.Block only lasts average 8 secs.
Gf can extend that block with encounters (Iron Warior ,ITF) but then wil,have only one encounter to attack.Also GF cannot block and attack at the same time,he is melee and he has no dodges.Also the slowest class
Compare this to CW.Empowered Dr by shield.Additional DR unmitigated layer by shield.(Not WAI).
He can attack while jumping ,dodging etc.And every 6 secs his shield gains a layer.Add that to dodges and practically a CW is very rare at Normal DR +25% R1 Shield.Most of the time he has R2 shield (50% ) and in the beginjings of the fight R3.(80%)
by GMC
"For reference purposes with R3 Stable and Unstable (Mastery and non Mastery) a wizard would need the following BASE DR values to reach the 80% resistance cap.
Stable: 53.36%
Unstable: 59.79%
Mastery Stable: 44.44%
Mastery Unstable: 57.12%"
^^^
Well my log says CW mitigated 86% of incoming damage with 9% DR....tenacity in acount ,but again Cw mitigated far more than the devs intended.And that's was a CW with out negation.....
It's the enchantment, not the CW. But of course people will try to defend their 20M investment while trying to get a CW nerf instead. An old classic.
Origonal attack=15875
Wizard dr=9%
Tenacity=some number we don't have or know.
15875*0.2 (this is the effect of unpopped shield on tab, mitigating 80% of damage means, as PER GMC's post, multiply by 0.2)*0.91 (This is the effect of DR) = 2889.25 damage. What, this is close to the original 2.2k!!! How can it be that its working exactly as intended? We can't know for sure what his tenacity is, but 7t is mwking up the difference. In percentages, 100%-100%*0.2*0.91=82% damage mitigated.
This is the 5th time I think, that I have responded to you making some claim using mathematics, when you have no conception of what you doing with it. I would advise you stop trying to prove stuff with it, because you aren't getting anywhere with it and only showing a lack of understanding of how it works. Look at GMC's post about how shield works, he explains it and I have explained it, it is doing exactly what its supposed to. Now, that doesn't mean that it isn't overpowered, but it is doing exactly what the devs said it does.
i agree is the no skills enchant enemy doesnt dodge or sprint or block hit like is a monster( monsters dont dodge).
I do agree. Let's say Negation synergize better with shield on tab for a simple reason:
counter to negation is burts high from the start. But vs a CW with shield on tab you can't do that, you've to deplete the shield first. Which means hitting the CW, which means feeding his negation.
But, for example, there are other situations: GWF vs negation is bad, cause the GWF cannot just "burst" from the start. Must hit the enemy to build stacks and buffs, which means pretty much you're forced to fill up enemy's negation.
DoT classes also are at a disadvantage since their DoTs fill up negation in no time.
It's the enchant, it's just more noticeable on a CW cause it's a ranged class that gets as tanky as a fighter with shield on tab+negation combo.
Compare the enchant with other "survivability" armor enchants:
Trans Negation: get hit 10 times, get 30% DR, X% inc healing and X% recovery. 100% time active.
Trans Soulforged: Every 75 seconds you get revived with overall 10k HP (that with module 6 damage is nothing) and 3s CC immunity (not damage immunity)
Trans Barkshield: 4 charges shielding you for a low amount of HP, can get depleted and wasted, and then you get a 2k HP shield every 6 seconds.
Now, considering how PvP is based on burst damage, it's quite obvious why an enchant that gives 30% DR to its user in no time in most situations plus a buff, working 100% of the time, is light years ahead compared to a 75s rebirth that still leaves you weak, at low HP and easy prey to get killed again instantly, or a timed HP shield that shields the user for a low amount of HP and can be wasted by few at-will attacks.
Negation is clearly too powerful compared to the above enchants. You need to either tone down negation or buff the other armor enchants A LOT to be on par with such a powerful mechanic for PvP.
The difference is clear.
1. you are right
2. tenacity base is 20% DR from incoming damage in case you have zero tenacity slottet, right? at 19xy tenacity its 80% arp resist and its 40% DR, right?
1. scenario taking 0,8 as mutiplier
15875 x 0,91 x 0,2 = 2889,25 x 0,7725 = 2232
0,7725 is the factor that splits into tenacity and T negation (if stacked) in case you have near zero tenacity and T negation stacked about one time (3%) thats the scenario, probabaly wrong scenario
2. scenario 0,5 as multiplier
15875 x 0,91 x 0,5 = 7223,125 x 0,309 = 2232
0,309 is tha factor splits into teneacity and t-negation stacks so it would be 7223 x 0,7 (10 stacks of T negation) = 5056,1 x 0,4414 = 2232
that would be too much DR 56% (max is 43% from tenacity more or less right?), so there is another source of mitigation or its bugged?
taking 43% DR from tenacity its 2881 damage, another 22,5% is mitigated......what am i missing in this calculation?
in other words, what damage mitigation does a CW have on top of all this, artifact? feats?
or do you have to recalculate in case of its an deflected damage, dealing 50% less damage
if deflected its 4464 damage so:
15875 x 0,91 x 0,5 = 7223,125 x 0,618 = 4464 deflected 2232
so maybe the scenario was zero stacks of T negation and about 40% DR from tenacity , there you go
if you calculate 10 stacks from T negation on top this would have been only 4464x 0,7 x 0,5 = 1563,45 damage --- poor
Shield on tab does not make them tankier than tanks. A GF gets +50% DR for three seconds after using either lunging or bullrush. That is 50% on top of everything else. It is constant DR of at least 80% for the GF. With shield up it is much much more. 80% dr from shield and whatever is left you take at least another 80% out of it.
I am not saying this to defend CWs. I am just saying that, like CW, GF has an awesome combination of strong defense, great damage and great cc. Three things it shares with cw, tr, and dc. OBP is a bit of an exception because it is just so extremely tanky without having much damage. GWF and SW need work.
So again, to me it comes down to more looking at how they can buff up the couple of underpowered classes rather than nerfing pretty much everyone else.
alot of comedians bashing TR who needs stealth to survive but CW doesnt even need to hide or dodge. Heads up number one on the list with 48 kills and an amazing 5 deaths, best TR with 12 kills and 10 deaths isnt that great? ohh look 2 TR on the bottom one with 4 kills and 21 deaths! The other CW got 17-8.
heads up mate CW fans club gonna hit you soon.
Reason I said we can't he sure what his tenacity is, is because the opponent would have had armour penetration. So the opponents arp would have cut through some of the resistance, which would then be bounced back up by tenacity.
I think you meant Learn2reroll.
i guess its more a P2W issue in this special case
not sure about that, since the damage he deals would be 15k+, arp + arp resist from target is probably already taken into calculation, can´t say what that encounter normally deals in PVE but probabaly more than 15k as an encounter from a well geared GF?
so maybe my corected math can fit, sry to post it again
maybe I do some basically errors in posting this, can´t say
The number inside the bracket is before arp/buffs is taken into account, it is the actual damage. The damage outside the bracket is the damage after everything is taken into account.
I did not prove anything? looks like your affected by my post and its not just me. I respect your defense for your CW anyone who spent so much will make sure his class stays on top even if its delusional. We all know that CW should not possess the qualities of all class atm its capable of burst damage, tank, healing, control and range, congratulations btw your on the hypocrite list of NW sayajinx1.
CW is strong, for sure, but I don´t care anymore about this cräp PVP system nor do I cry about it since it is known to be cräp, so "adapt" as ppl always write, exploit and cheat the heck out of our toon
Warlock can handle CW in 1 on 1 , you have to cc him thats all, but in confrontation only doing burstdamage I will lose 99%
in case you grap him, prone him and stun him he is nothing more than dead caster (in case he is not faster than you)
What other CWs in the past have said about the shield: It is a multiplicative layer. Original DR % X/80%/50%/25%.
What devs stated: "So for example
A wizard has 25% DR and his R1 shield is stable. YOu hit him with 1000 damage. The damage calculation would go as follows
1000 * .75 * .5 = 375
NOT 1000 * .25 = 250"
Cw shield if was WAI should reduce damage,AFTER DR reduction CALCULATION.
let's make it exactly the same according exactly to devs.
And change the appropriate numbers with them in the log.Fair and clear i would say.
A wizard has 9% DR and his R3(80%) shield is stable. YOu hit him with 15875 damage. The damage calculation would go as follows
15875*(damage) 0.91(actual real DR 100-0.09) * .8 (shield) = 11557
11557.Look the numbers again.I used the same formula as the DEV.Copy paste man.
If shield was WAI CW should get 11557 damage.
Let's add tenacity.
40%? I suspect less.CW was using new BI armor with old ten rings.(By looking my Cw page collections new Bi +ten rings should give around 28-29% but nvm)
11557x 0.6=6934.2
Sum and conlcusion:using the same formula as DEV gave:Pre tenacity damage should be 11557 taking Dr and CW shield at r3 (80%).After 40% ten=6934.2.
Did the CW took 6934.2 ?Be a little honest.... Did he took 6934.2? No he took 2232! How much extra mitigation is 2232 to 6934?
X=(2232x100)/6934=32. 100-32=68% extra mitigation.
68% extra unjustified mitigation.No negation shield or stacks.Cw was not using negation.
CW shield is an extra layer of DR.period.
CW shield need to blow up when fully depleted then need re-cast. Problem solved cause this way:
shield still provides decent protection mized with teleports, if CW is rushed by a melee opponent
shield blowing up gives enemy a window of opportunity to land full DPS
recast needed means the CW must stop from attacking and pretty much teleport-recast shield when it's out of cooldown
Let's say you make 4 charges 80%-60-40-20% on tab, 50%-40-30-10% normal, then it blows up and need re-cast, leaving the CW open to melee attack so a melee fighter is rewarded when he reaches the CW.
My lunging tooltip is 14k pve non crit non buffs.Cw was using pure terror and debuffed me.
Please if you have time make again your calculation with out using negation(CW was not using it and deflect).
Please.
You will see that Cw gets an invinsible mysterious ~70% extra DR.Thanks.
Use as an example the formula that GMC posted and change the numbers.
Commutative law of multiplication, it doesn't matter which order you multiply, the anwer remains the same. SECONDLY its multiply by 0.2 for shield (1-0.8) not 0.8, otherwise the lower the rank of shield, the more powerful it would be. Do that and the answer will make sense.
"So for example
A wizard has 25% DR and his R1 shield is stable. YOu hit him with 1000 damage. The damage calculation would go as follows
1000 * .75 * .5 = 375
NOT 1000 * .25 = 250"
"Your Bronzewood Weapon deals 36 (149) Arcane Damage to CW"
A wizard has 9% DR and his R1 shield is stable. YOu hit him with 149 damage. The damage calculation would go as follows
149 * 0.91 * .5 = 67.79
30% ten. X=70x68/100=47.6.
29-30% tenacity. 47.6 to 36. 25% extra layer again.Shield is bugged.
In any case:A cloth wearing class with 9% dr ,90s range ,4 dodges that provide immunity frame ,should not mitigate roughly 50%-85% of it dmage against it.
Shield has leveled CW protection into Fighters category.No Gf can mitigate 80% damage with its shield dawn.
At the same time CW can attack ,dodge or cc.
Shield has made CWs more tankier that fighters.
Shield needs an adjustment dawn.