That's crazy. This is a game. A leisure activity. Something you do for fun. Not a job.
If you're not having fun, what's the point? And if you're taking this so seriously that you feel like you got slapped in the face...might I recommend a new hobby?
I do have to agree whole-heartedly with these sentiments. Think of it like this. I paid $35 for Dragon Warrior for the NES in 1989. Now, I can buy it for $2.99 in the Play Store. That's a loss of 88.3% that I would not have had to endure, if only I have waited the 26 years to buy the game now. The loss is even greater if you take inflation into account. But, I purchased the game "early", paid "full price", for it, and thoroughly enjoyed it back in the day.
You did the very same thing when you purchased something with Zen; you purchased it early and for a premium price that enabled you to enjoy the benefits of such purchase, which I am willing to bet that you did (enjoy the fruits of your Zen, that is). Now, however, time has gone by and what you paid a premium for is no longer "worth" (don't get me started on worth vs value) what you originally paid for it. It's called depreciation. What's the problem?
I'm sure that a lot of players who paid cash for Cortesian fashion felt the same way when they saw it given to masses of players for free once, twice, three times. What's the solution? Stop developing the game? Stop giving away items, or having sales on items, for fear of ticking off players who paid full price for, character slots, for instance?
The problem here is the perspective; with the proliferation of "multiplayer" in games, people are no longer enjoying the experience, they are going for the goal, whether that be end-game content, admiration from peers, or just the most of everything that they can get. The majority of players don't enjoy "playing" games anymore, if they did, there would be no Sharandar/dread ring tokens, no RP items, and so on. If people enjoy playing the game, they don't feel compelled to pay to forego the game playing experience. Sure, this can be spun in any direction (its too repetitive, too boring, RNG oh my, etc). If that is the case, then I would strongly encourage a reevaluation of why you play this, or any other game for that matter, to begin with.
I do have to agree whole-heartedly with these sentiments. Think of it like this. I paid $35 for Dragon Warrior for the NES in 1989. Now, I can buy it for $2.99 in the Play Store. That's a loss of 88.3% that I would not have had to endure, if only I have waited the 26 years to buy the game now. The loss is even greater if you take inflation into account. But, I purchased the game "early", paid "full price", for it, and thoroughly enjoyed it back in the day.
You did the very same thing when you purchased something with Zen; you purchased it early and for a premium price that enabled you to enjoy the benefits of such purchase, which I am willing to bet that you did (enjoy the fruits of your Zen, that is). Now, however, time has gone by and what you paid a premium for is no longer "worth" (don't get me started on worth vs value) what you originally paid for it. It's called depreciation. What's the problem?
I'm sure that a lot of players who paid cash for Cortesian fashion felt the same way when they saw it given to masses of players for free once, twice, three times. What's the solution? Stop developing the game? Stop giving away items, or having sales on items, for fear of ticking off players who paid full price for, character slots, for instance?
The problem here is the perspective; with the proliferation of "multiplayer" in games, people are no longer enjoying the experience, they are going for the goal, whether that be end-game content, admiration from peers, or just the most of everything that they can get. The majority of players don't enjoy "playing" games anymore, if they did, there would be no Sharandar/dread ring tokens, no RP items, and so on. If people enjoy playing the game, they don't feel compelled to pay to forego the game playing experience. Sure, this can be spun in any direction (its too repetitive, too boring, RNG oh my, etc). If that is the case, then I would strongly encourage a reevaluation of why you play this, or any other game for that matter, to begin with.
Noone forces you to pay...
Of course they will make diferent strategies in diferent game features to get more money....this is business (a very lucrative one, but with a very short longevity). The longevity is very low due to this kind of strategies...
Instead of investing in customization strategies (dresses, dyes, weapon appearences, housing...bla bla), that give a more stable and longer income....they (the guys in the suit, NOT the Devs - well I don't know, but I don't suspect them for now) prefer to invest in "power creep" strategies in which you can buy "power" from the store with your $$ making a very strong character in a short time.
The latter investment strategy is better because if the suitguy is not sure if the project in which he is investing, he will get his initial investment quickly and after that he will only receive an extra...even if it is shortlived gain.
With the crisis alot of F2P has such things....wanna power quickly? Please pay!
I did spend some money in this game..little...but I did, and it was always for something permanent and essencial for the whole account...a mount..character slots....shared bank slots.
Spending money on "refinement points" is a WASTE. If you get everything to orange in 1 week after you hit 70...what's the point of playing? If you don't like the "progression" aspect of the game, I recommend you some FPS or DOTA.
This is not big deal. They just added new "content", but this time using the recent RP system.
As many ppl said, this is MMO and they keep changing (maybe they changed too soon, but this is not what you are complaining about).
This already happend a lot of time, but without the RP system. I don't know when did you start playing this game, but i think i buy my ancient weapons for 1mil each, and now they are 300k both. (and completly obsolete).
Then they introduced a RP system, and in this way you can use you weapon into new ones without losing all your effort.
So, if i give you to choose, between:
A) Introduce a new weapon that you have to start over from zero (or start getting again the AD that it will cost)
or Introduce a new weapon, where you can recover the 40% of your effort (80% if you wait for double RP). AND with that 40%, you will get a weapon with better stats that the older one.
So, what would you choose?
Don't forget they are making changes to get more RP that will lower the RP cost (now mobs will drop R5 enchants, artifact equipment will allow enchants to refine, leadership task added a lot of new coffers with enchants, and i think fey blessing will drop R5 also)
Well, that's the technicality there. All that stuff you're buying in the game has no monetary value.
So you can't say that your current artifact weapon is worth $X but you lost $Y because of the new one. From a legal standpoint, at least. You got exactly what you paid for. There was no contract, nor guarantee of anything sort of value or return on said value.
No, but you can say the RP within that artifact weapon is worth $x and you lost $y because they forcefully reduced the value of that RP.
Time is worth a LOT. No matter how you cut it, time is worth a LOT. If you spent X amount of time building your gear up, then it's worth something much more than money. Money, you can get back eventually. Time you will NEVER ever get back.
"If you're going to ride my HAMSTER... At least pull my hair" Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time. "Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Time is worth a LOT. No matter how you cut it, time is worth a LOT. If you spent X amount of time building your gear up, then it's worth something much more than money. Money, you can get back eventually. Time you will NEVER ever get back.
This is a leisure activity. At the end of the day, it's all wasted time.
If you want to MAKE money, get a job. If you want to SPEND money, play a video game.
40% is a slap in the face to the players, and the devs must know how upset this made us all. If they truly feel the need to make new gear instead of upgrading the current stuff, we should not be paying the price for that.
Wait, if they upgraded your artifact you would expect to have to put a bunch of new RP into the new upgraded levels right? What's the difference between that and the way they did it? You use your current artifact to refine your new one and you are left with a bunch of new levels you must use RP for.
Seems like six of one half a dozen the other to me.
0
fluffyllMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2015
as someone who has spent a lot of money in this game over 1.5k AUD and a lot of that into my artifact weapon and other equipment this sucks
Would people rather have the current artifacts upgraded with 3 more levels? That seems to be the case because people want to keep RP spent. Lets just imagine for a moment they did that. Since level 70 requires stronger drops they would most likely make the drops/reward at the current legendary level. New people would still have over 4 million rp to go to get the new max on the artifact, current people with a legendary would need over 4 million rp to get the new max. People are seriously complaining that they are getting an advantage because they previously spent money/time/rp on artifacts? I put "x" amount of time and work into my current main character, now they are releasing a paladin I want to play. Just because I spent that time playing and working other characters does not mean that I should get it transferred to the paladin, why should an item be any different?
If the problem is that they are releasing new stronger gear, people just need to get over it. I dont want this game to die. A game that does not release new stronger equipment slowly dies because people have nothing to work towards.
You're not paying for something to get a "return" on it. This isn't the stock market or a 401k.
Every dollar you put into Neverwinter is for entertainment purposes only. You're only paying for access to the content, not actually buying anything. And even then, what you paid money for was Zen, not an item. Artifacts, equipment, enchantments, etc. have no monetary value.
If you want to get a "return on your investment", buy stocks or start a 401k...or even a savings account. Don't spend it on video games.
Quite so. Because:
* I am not entertained when my money / effort spend is deducted every new mod.
I shouldn't spend money on this game. Logical, it seems.
Well, that's the technicality there. All that stuff you're buying in the game has no monetary value.
So you can't say that your current artifact weapon is worth $X but you lost $Y because of the new one. From a legal standpoint, at least. You got exactly what you paid for. There was no contract, nor guarantee of anything sort of value or return on said value.
Arguing player reaction over legal angel is pointless. True, there is no law that says they must retain or reward player money / effort. But on the other hand, there is no law that says player must pay, either.
HEY ********. You seem to forget the example- level 48 is still PURPLE TIER. The new purple-tier artifact weapons are a solid upgrade to the orange-tier ones right now- stats wise and likely ability boost wise. You aren't "LOSING MONEYZ BEING FORCED 2 UPGRADE OMG", you're being GIVEN more power than the previous artifact had for free- and you now have space to expand again. WTF is with this thread? Do you people THINK? EVER?
Sounds like you are the one not thinking.
We are being given more power because mod 6 requires more power. Heck, lv 61 green gear has more power. But why are you comparing power to power, which is relative, when we are comparing RP to RP, which is static?
Observation 1 - all equipped gear is bound to char, new gear always comes and eventually existing gear becomes some form of salvage.
Observation 2 - enchants/runes are free citizens, every bit of RP (both bound and unbound) upgrades them without limiting them to a single char or account, you can sell/trade at any time.
Conclusion - upgrading enchants/runes has a better ROI than RP spent on gear.
Choice - use RP to upgrade gear with planned obsolescence or use RP to upgrade enchants/runes without planned obsolescence.
I didnt know this would be such a hot topic but considering what it is about I guess It figures. The RIGHT thing to do is at least for a limited time after Mod 6 comes out..say 30 days..Any old artifact weapons and or gear dropped into the new you get a 100% return on the RP that was in the old applied to the new.. This is the right way it should be done. This way its a fair handshake and done with.
I can only assume that the people complaining about this are new to MMOs?
This is actually nothing out of the ordinary. In fact when RIFT increased their level cap you could get Green drops in the new zones that were better than top tier Raid gear from the original content, with NO chance to upgrade old gear and no 'trade-in' value whatsoever.
every new mod there will be better races, better gear.
if they continue with 2x events and you are patient at least you can have back 80% of your investiment ! which is awesome !
or do you really think we are going to have 100% refund every time??
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited March 2015
I guess I can kinda see why people are complaining but as others have posted you do in fact get a better weapon even if it doesn't go to orange ... I think the problem is mental people have the color orange which is of course better no matter what ... then there is the problem of you have lost access to extra slots for enchants which is more of a legitimate complaint but still the stat improvement you get I think is actually as good if not better than the enchant you would have put in that slot anyway.
The only real issue I have with the process/matter is the fact that you have to re-unlock your class feature you had and then you have to re-unlock your stat bonus to the one you wanted (unless you are super lucky) and then you have to re-roll your bonus stat to the point that you would like this means spending even more AD on the all those unlocks which is 50k/attempt and then your stat rolls is another 12.5k per attempt ... smaller prices on the scale of things but still NOT all of us are swimming in AD and frankly that is a burden and pain for those of us that actually grinded out our artifact even to purple without buying everything in sight off AH.
I frankly don't sympathize with a single one of you that spent hundreds of dollars on such matters ... that is YOUR fault for opening yoru wallet to a video game that is clearly trying to move at a pace that makes such attempts pointless. IF you are rich and don't care about money then don't complain you don't care remember? You throw money at this so you can A be superior to everyone in PVP and you don't have to play with any real skill you can just hold your mouse button down to win ... B you paid so you don't have to waste so much time to be top tier and C you can probably solo more content than those of us that spent a more modest sum of money on the game and or none at all to try to play it totally free.
However cryptic is a being a deceitful if in fact you don't keep the refining points at 75%, basically what they did is use a different spin on the numbers and statistics to shed a more favorable light on themselves ... instead of keeping 40% of your RP you are keeping 75% of the level both are mathematically correct however one certainly looks better than the other.
This is the same type of practice that allows merchants to attempt to make their prices not look so high ... 1500 is a lot but 1499.99 for some reason seems a lot better even though its 1 cent less.
doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited March 2015
On a side note ... i'll also mention that for some reason when I got on preview and dumped my orange OH into my new elemental OH I got to level 48, but then when I dumped my orange MH into my new elemental MH I actually got to level 53.
Anyone experience this? I thought maybe they were fiddling with the refining amounts and trying to actually benefit the players but after reading a bunch of rants on the forums I'm wondering if there is just a glitch in the refining process.
Sweet so we have to stick to their schedule in order not to lose out on the majority of our rp as well as have our gear obsolete. This long term artifact gear is implemented so well!
I don't get why people would even think that it's ok that people could have played module 5, not buy any artifact gear until module 6 and have superior gear without losing any efficiency for the same amount of effort as people who bought into gear that they thought they thought would last more than 1 module. Do you think people legitimately farmed to legendary too? Maybe I need to find another hobby since if people are fine with recycled content in order to try and get some people to pay up twice and we get more of it. I honestly don't understand why anyone could find any reason whatsoever that it's a good idea.
Artifact gear is totally optional. You DO NOT have to use it ... there is nothing written that says you HAVE to have BiS to be effective, its like computer hardware ... its more cost effective to be a generation behind ... sure you don't have the latest and greatest but frankly the latest and greatest computer hardware isn't usually leaps and bounds better than the generation before it ... often its 10 - 20% increase in efficiency at most which isn't typically noticeable with the human eye ... you'd have to run software that benchmarks in an artificial environment to see the difference via a SCORE that really does NOT translate into real world effect.
Moral of the story, if you don't like it then don't participate and stick with the friendlier options ... the black ice MH and OH are about as good as the artifact gear at purple. I believe there is even blue gear that you can get MH/OH wise that are as good if not better than your artifact MH/OH just minus extra slots and set bonus and probably class power buffs and such. But none of that makes you a good player that is just things to add a bit of a edge ... if the refining is too much stop it and use NON definable gear, it might not be top end but its close enough and if you even have a modicum of skill then it won't matter as you will still be competitive at least in PVE, PVP is broken and for wallet warriors only.
Comments
I do have to agree whole-heartedly with these sentiments. Think of it like this. I paid $35 for Dragon Warrior for the NES in 1989. Now, I can buy it for $2.99 in the Play Store. That's a loss of 88.3% that I would not have had to endure, if only I have waited the 26 years to buy the game now. The loss is even greater if you take inflation into account. But, I purchased the game "early", paid "full price", for it, and thoroughly enjoyed it back in the day.
You did the very same thing when you purchased something with Zen; you purchased it early and for a premium price that enabled you to enjoy the benefits of such purchase, which I am willing to bet that you did (enjoy the fruits of your Zen, that is). Now, however, time has gone by and what you paid a premium for is no longer "worth" (don't get me started on worth vs value) what you originally paid for it. It's called depreciation. What's the problem?
I'm sure that a lot of players who paid cash for Cortesian fashion felt the same way when they saw it given to masses of players for free once, twice, three times. What's the solution? Stop developing the game? Stop giving away items, or having sales on items, for fear of ticking off players who paid full price for, character slots, for instance?
The problem here is the perspective; with the proliferation of "multiplayer" in games, people are no longer enjoying the experience, they are going for the goal, whether that be end-game content, admiration from peers, or just the most of everything that they can get. The majority of players don't enjoy "playing" games anymore, if they did, there would be no Sharandar/dread ring tokens, no RP items, and so on. If people enjoy playing the game, they don't feel compelled to pay to forego the game playing experience. Sure, this can be spun in any direction (its too repetitive, too boring, RNG oh my, etc). If that is the case, then I would strongly encourage a reevaluation of why you play this, or any other game for that matter, to begin with.
I will only add that it seems a generational or modern technology issue.
This is the time of NOW and entitlement.
Noone forces you to pay...
Of course they will make diferent strategies in diferent game features to get more money....this is business (a very lucrative one, but with a very short longevity). The longevity is very low due to this kind of strategies...
Instead of investing in customization strategies (dresses, dyes, weapon appearences, housing...bla bla), that give a more stable and longer income....they (the guys in the suit, NOT the Devs - well I don't know, but I don't suspect them for now) prefer to invest in "power creep" strategies in which you can buy "power" from the store with your $$ making a very strong character in a short time.
The latter investment strategy is better because if the suitguy is not sure if the project in which he is investing, he will get his initial investment quickly and after that he will only receive an extra...even if it is shortlived gain.
With the crisis alot of F2P has such things....wanna power quickly? Please pay!
I did spend some money in this game..little...but I did, and it was always for something permanent and essencial for the whole account...a mount..character slots....shared bank slots.
Spending money on "refinement points" is a WASTE. If you get everything to orange in 1 week after you hit 70...what's the point of playing? If you don't like the "progression" aspect of the game, I recommend you some FPS or DOTA.
Have fun,
Almondum.
As many ppl said, this is MMO and they keep changing (maybe they changed too soon, but this is not what you are complaining about).
This already happend a lot of time, but without the RP system. I don't know when did you start playing this game, but i think i buy my ancient weapons for 1mil each, and now they are 300k both. (and completly obsolete).
Then they introduced a RP system, and in this way you can use you weapon into new ones without losing all your effort.
So, if i give you to choose, between:
A) Introduce a new weapon that you have to start over from zero (or start getting again the AD that it will cost)
or
So, what would you choose?
Don't forget they are making changes to get more RP that will lower the RP cost (now mobs will drop R5 enchants, artifact equipment will allow enchants to refine, leadership task added a lot of new coffers with enchants, and i think fey blessing will drop R5 also)
No, but you can say the RP within that artifact weapon is worth $x and you lost $y because they forcefully reduced the value of that RP.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"If you're going to ride my HAMSTER... At least pull my hair"
Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time.
"Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
This is a leisure activity. At the end of the day, it's all wasted time.
If you want to MAKE money, get a job. If you want to SPEND money, play a video game.
I don't see how that's a hard concept to grasp.
Wait, if they upgraded your artifact you would expect to have to put a bunch of new RP into the new upgraded levels right? What's the difference between that and the way they did it? You use your current artifact to refine your new one and you are left with a bunch of new levels you must use RP for.
Seems like six of one half a dozen the other to me.
If the problem is that they are releasing new stronger gear, people just need to get over it. I dont want this game to die. A game that does not release new stronger equipment slowly dies because people have nothing to work towards.
Quite so. Because:
* I am not entertained when my money / effort spend is deducted every new mod.
I shouldn't spend money on this game. Logical, it seems.
Arguing player reaction over legal angel is pointless. True, there is no law that says they must retain or reward player money / effort. But on the other hand, there is no law that says player must pay, either.
No, there is no reason to pay. There is absolutely reason to complain. If there isn't, no one would be here.
Sounds like you are the one not thinking.
We are being given more power because mod 6 requires more power. Heck, lv 61 green gear has more power. But why are you comparing power to power, which is relative, when we are comparing RP to RP, which is static?
Time = having fun playing a game.
Money = entertainment budget to play the above game for best enjoyment.
Once you stop treating games as work, this kind of threads will stop.
Observation 2 - enchants/runes are free citizens, every bit of RP (both bound and unbound) upgrades them without limiting them to a single char or account, you can sell/trade at any time.
Conclusion - upgrading enchants/runes has a better ROI than RP spent on gear.
Choice - use RP to upgrade gear with planned obsolescence or use RP to upgrade enchants/runes without planned obsolescence.
This is actually nothing out of the ordinary. In fact when RIFT increased their level cap you could get Green drops in the new zones that were better than top tier Raid gear from the original content, with NO chance to upgrade old gear and no 'trade-in' value whatsoever.
Consider yourselves lucky in comparison.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
^^^this.
And they will, if only to calm down all the outrage that will ensue once the freight train called "Mod 6" has hit the community :^)
if they continue with 2x events and you are patient at least you can have back 80% of your investiment ! which is awesome !
or do you really think we are going to have 100% refund every time??
The only real issue I have with the process/matter is the fact that you have to re-unlock your class feature you had and then you have to re-unlock your stat bonus to the one you wanted (unless you are super lucky) and then you have to re-roll your bonus stat to the point that you would like this means spending even more AD on the all those unlocks which is 50k/attempt and then your stat rolls is another 12.5k per attempt ... smaller prices on the scale of things but still NOT all of us are swimming in AD and frankly that is a burden and pain for those of us that actually grinded out our artifact even to purple without buying everything in sight off AH.
I frankly don't sympathize with a single one of you that spent hundreds of dollars on such matters ... that is YOUR fault for opening yoru wallet to a video game that is clearly trying to move at a pace that makes such attempts pointless. IF you are rich and don't care about money then don't complain you don't care remember? You throw money at this so you can A be superior to everyone in PVP and you don't have to play with any real skill you can just hold your mouse button down to win ... B you paid so you don't have to waste so much time to be top tier and C you can probably solo more content than those of us that spent a more modest sum of money on the game and or none at all to try to play it totally free.
However cryptic is a being a deceitful if in fact you don't keep the refining points at 75%, basically what they did is use a different spin on the numbers and statistics to shed a more favorable light on themselves ... instead of keeping 40% of your RP you are keeping 75% of the level both are mathematically correct however one certainly looks better than the other.
This is the same type of practice that allows merchants to attempt to make their prices not look so high ... 1500 is a lot but 1499.99 for some reason seems a lot better even though its 1 cent less.
Anyone experience this? I thought maybe they were fiddling with the refining amounts and trying to actually benefit the players but after reading a bunch of rants on the forums I'm wondering if there is just a glitch in the refining process.
Artifact gear is totally optional. You DO NOT have to use it ... there is nothing written that says you HAVE to have BiS to be effective, its like computer hardware ... its more cost effective to be a generation behind ... sure you don't have the latest and greatest but frankly the latest and greatest computer hardware isn't usually leaps and bounds better than the generation before it ... often its 10 - 20% increase in efficiency at most which isn't typically noticeable with the human eye ... you'd have to run software that benchmarks in an artificial environment to see the difference via a SCORE that really does NOT translate into real world effect.
Moral of the story, if you don't like it then don't participate and stick with the friendlier options ... the black ice MH and OH are about as good as the artifact gear at purple. I believe there is even blue gear that you can get MH/OH wise that are as good if not better than your artifact MH/OH just minus extra slots and set bonus and probably class power buffs and such. But none of that makes you a good player that is just things to add a bit of a edge ... if the refining is too much stop it and use NON definable gear, it might not be top end but its close enough and if you even have a modicum of skill then it won't matter as you will still be competitive at least in PVE, PVP is broken and for wallet warriors only.