the short answer is no no way a 12k gs toon will be able to do any dungeons after mod 6 15ks might be able to do some content 20k will be ok
12k-15k gs content is normal dungeon not epic dungeon
do content you capable of
For example why do you want 12-15 y.o kid do what need to be done by 25 y.o?
You want to do epic dungeon content? then invest some time or money to gear up
So if it's this hard for BiS players, do you think anyone with green or blue gear will be able to do anything?
A challenge is one thing but a frustrating slaughter is poor design.
I've found out a long time ago that having BiS gear doesn't mean your playing skill or tactics is BiS... not to mention how these people with BiS gear but not-so-BiS skill/tactics tend to exaggerate stuff to hide their L2P issues.
Of course, I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but I am saying I'm not about to take things at face value just because someone said so. I do know for a fact how sucky most people are in NW PvE. I know for a fact that people being used to carebear difficulty levels are to be expected to go through a long period of adaptation, and having tried out some of the new content in preview, I also know for a fact that it's not as difficult as some people claim it is (in regards to LS and regen changes).
When mobs do animation drink potion CC them to cancel it
the problem is not the mobs but in your tactic of using rotation of skill
Another obvious and useless reply. Hexers sometimes can resist CC even on live now, imagine now on preview at lvl 73. It just doesn't work most of the times, you'll love those "IMMUNE" yellow writings . Btw there's still time for a little change, i don't think mod6 Is coming out on 7th april, unless devs are making the smart move Of not uploading half Of it on preview before launch, but i doubt it
404 Italians Not Found Guild Leader
Matt Shieldheart 3.5k GF Conq PVE _ Matt Shieldheart 0 3.5k GF Tactician PVE _ Matt Shieldheart II 4.1k Buffer DC _ Matt Shieldheart III 4.3k Thauma CW _ Matt Shieldheart IV 3.5k Exe TR _ Matt Shieldheart V 3.9k Destroyer GWF _ Matt Shieldheart VI 3.1k Trapper HR _ Matt Shieldheart VII 3.1k Fury SW _ Matt ShieldheartVIII 3.6k OP Justice _ Matt Shieldheart -8 3.1k Healadin _ Matt Shieldheart -9 3.1k Mof Rene CW
Another obvious and useless reply. Hexers sometimes can resist CC even on live now, imagine now on preview at lvl 73. It just doesn't work most of the times, you'll love those "IMMUNE" yellow writings .
Hexers go to CC immune status when they start laying down the red circle, in which case they just stand still with their staff planted to the ground doing nothing...which is one of the grand total of two or three attacks they have. You must be joking to mention of their limited CC immunity as a reason for not being able to stop their healing action.
If you are serious, then I think I have a good idea why you find things so difficult.
Btw there's still time for a little change, i don't think mod6 Is coming out on 7th april, unless devs are making the smart move Of not uploading half Of it on preview before launch, but i doubt it
I think the same can be applied to the players as well. The days left 'til April 7th is a good time to rethink one's own playstyle or habits to see if there isn't something you might be doing inefficiently, or requires more practice. Just saying.
I've found out a long time ago that having BiS gear doesn't mean your playing skill or tactics is BiS... not to mention how these people with BiS gear but not-so-BiS skill/tactics tend to exaggerate stuff to hide their L2P issues.
Of course, I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but I am saying I'm not about to take things at face value just because someone said so. I do know for a fact how sucky most people are in NW PvE. I know for a fact that people being used to carebear difficulty levels are to be expected to go through a long period of adaptation, and having tried out some of the new content in preview, I also know for a fact that it's not as difficult as some people claim it is (in regards to LS and regen changes).
So I'd rather remain the skeptic in this case.
This has never been the kind of game where people use teamwork and creative problem solving to achieve success in pve. It is about the zerg and about glitching, and catching a pve pug group where everyone is on the same page in those two areas. IF the devs can pull off somehow shifting the community paradigm in that sense, well I'll be the first to congratulate them on a job well done.
Maybe the single key reason why I don't see real team work coming into play mod 6 pve, are class balance issues. CW DC TR. Beyond that is filler, and really a TR will not be as valuable in a dungeon as another CW or DC. HR, GF, GWF, OP, SW...filler at best, liabilities at worst in dungeons and will struggle with solo content.
And lets even say a 15k filler class with a skilled player driving it will be challenged but will overcome and be successful. That still leaves out 80% of the playerbase. In other words I don't think the content will be do-able by the majority of players and we can reason why it will not be, but that reasoning is moot to the fact. Content that the majority of your playerbase will fail at is poor game development. No getting around that.
Again, it would have made sense for the really hard stuff to be brand new content gated past 70, and for the current 60-70 content to just be tweaked u a few notches.
They will probably tone this all down. But that is kind of a shame. There needs to be content that is challenging to skilled players.
Mod 6 just doesn't seem well planned to me no matter how I look at it.
Cough.. HR Trapper a filler ? YOU WOT M8 ?
Ever heard of neverending roots of doom 24/7 dance ?
YOU LOCO !
Whats wrong with being a filler? If ye talking bout CC, CW is more preferred coz mob dun hit players when they are frozen. Even with crushing root, mob daze for like 1 sec at rank 4.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited March 2015
we need challenge on boss fights that only.They can focus to add enviroment change like the lostmauth when the floor start to dissapears.they can add also smart debuffs on bosses for example: if you get that kind of hit from boss your stats will decrease by 50%
for 30 seconds. THE same boss can have and another attack if you get hit you are not able to heal for 30 sec.AND also a wipe party attack if the pt dont do something need to do.THAT is interesting challenge for skillfull players not just buff the mobs.
kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
edited March 2015
You gotta balance between fun and challenge. If even the lowest of the epic dungeon requires near perfect gear then something is definitely off.
Also the fun of Neverwinter is how powerful you can get in the endgame and if players have to spend hundreds of hours to get gear which is barely enough to scrape by then there is no sense of progression.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
You gotta balance between fun and challenge. If even the lowest of the epic dungeon requires near perfect gear then something is definitely off.
Also the fun of Neverwinter is how powerful you can get in the endgame and if players have to spend hundreds of hours to get gear which is barely enough to scrape by then there is no sense of progression.
my point is even for bis player should based on tactic challenge.i hate the fact just burn ( valindra module 5 even from low gs characters)
If the mechanics are hard then its fun if the damage is just cheap in a dungeon it doesnt make it hard just cheap and a spitting spider spitting on a full purple geared GWF in r10's and one shotting him for 115k damage is cheap
I dont mind dying a lot if I mess up a mechanic or stand in the stupid but 90% of the times I died on test doing dungeons I didnt know what the F happened and had to go to ACT to see what even hit me. I like a good challenge but "dont get close enough to attack anything and you wont die" is not a strategy melee DPS can work with
damage reduction is so borked on test right now I have almost 7k def and that gives me a whopping 28.5% damage resist to get back to my lev 60 levels, with no diminishing returns at 400Def per .5% DR it would take another 14k def or 34 more AC and I just dont see any gear or rank of enchant that will get me anywhere close to that
my point is even for bis player should based on tactic challenge.i hate the fact just burn ( valindra module 5 even from low gs characters)
agreed I hate that the best part of VT was if you didnt pop enough coffins it was a wipe and not the steamroll that zombie ho that it has turned into BUT dying to unpopped coffins is one thing dying because her first AoE one shotted all of the party but the tank and or healer is cheap and thats what the new dungeons are not hard but cheap.
Cryptic wants a more "rainbow" party then make threat for tanks better, make healing mean something ... you cant heal when you have 2 states full health and dead. not once in all of my runs was i able to go hey "I am low health better back out and chug a pot" I was alive and full and dead and waiting to be revived.
right now as it stand is less "hey lets make more dungeons that harder and more mechanic based" and instead the cheap and easy route of nefing everyones stats and making the dungeons hit harder.
it seems like the devs have chosen the latter with one new area for leveling and 3 reskins of old areas and I am not sure about the other classes "new" encounters but GWF are all reskins of other classes powers
painting blitz from purple to red and calling it hidden daggers is not a "new" power nor is stealing GF daily and calling it a new encounter... then propmptly nerfing it into uselessness (I have at wills that hit harder than that encounter)
honestly if this is supposed to go live in 7 days then get ready for a buggy buggy trainwreck
agreed I hate that the best part of VT was if you didnt pop enough coffins it was a wipe and not the steamroll that zombie ho that it has turned into BUT dying to unpopped coffins is one thing dying because her first AoE one shotted all of the party but the tank and or healer is cheap and thats what the new dungeons are not hard but cheap.
Cryptic wants a more "rainbow" party then make threat for tanks better, make healing mean something ... you cant heal when you have 2 states full health and dead. not once in all of my runs was i able to go hey "I am low health better back out and chug a pot" I was alive and full and dead and waiting to be revived.
right now as it stand is less "hey lets make more dungeons that harder and more mechanic based" and instead the cheap and easy route of nefing everyones stats and making the dungeons hit harder.
it seems like the devs have chosen the latter with one new area for leveling and 3 reskins of old areas and I am not sure about the other classes "new" encounters but GWF are all reskins of other classes powers
painting blitz from purple to red and calling it hidden daggers is not a "new" power nor is stealing GF daily and calling it a new encounter... then propmptly nerfing it into uselessness (I have at wills that hit harder than that encounter)
honestly if this is supposed to go live in 7 days then get ready for a buggy buggy trainwreck
Yea..mechanics like VT/MC is what make dungeon challenging..i like the design very much and i still do VT if i m looking for challenge..it require more of team coordination to succeed. Its better than just plain burning mob down which sometime makes me doze of in the middle of dungeon.. Making something like trash mob 1 hitting u just makes it worse..u just got nothing to start of ur game
You gotta balance between fun and challenge. If even the lowest of the epic dungeon requires near perfect gear then something is definitely off.
Also the fun of Neverwinter is how powerful you can get in the endgame and if players have to spend hundreds of hours to get gear which is barely enough to scrape by then there is no sense of progression.
There are two tiers of epic dungeons at lvl 70. The first one has been reported to be quite easy.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited March 2015
vt module 5 has a problem;p adds attack like turtles i can run all day with my gf with them.i can control and damage boss at the same time with my cw.with my sw i can tank them too.and gwf can tank them and do damage to valindra and and and and ..........so have those mobs so weak what is the point to close a casket?
Personally, I think the caskets on VT are a poor design.
"press f" to stop mob spawn is not a satisfying feeling in an action-combat game.
Lair of Lostmauth is, in my opinion, the best designed final boss fight so far.
Players must move to avoid fireballs, falling rocks, and lava.
I would love to see more vertical movement in dungeons and in boss fights.
Fighting in a flat, circular arena can be boring.
vt module 5 has a problem;p adds attack like turtles i can run all day with my gf with them.i can control and damage boss at the same time with my cw.with my sw i can tank them too.and gwf can tank them and do damage to valindra and and and and ..........so have those mobs so weak what is the point to close a casket?
Its a different story when mod 6 come..with lifesteal and regen nerf.
0
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited March 2015
The campaign has a progression and the dungeons should as well. Having a dungeon labeled as 2000 gear level and then making it impossible for almost anyone is not the right way to go.
They work so hard on trying to balance pve with pvp, the same effort should be done with dungeons, which, at the end of the day, SHOULD be the end-game.
Comments
12k-15k gs content is normal dungeon not epic dungeon
do content you capable of
For example why do you want 12-15 y.o kid do what need to be done by 25 y.o?
You want to do epic dungeon content? then invest some time or money to gear up
When mobs do animation drink potion CC them to cancel it
the problem is not the mobs but in your tactic of using rotation of skill
I've found out a long time ago that having BiS gear doesn't mean your playing skill or tactics is BiS... not to mention how these people with BiS gear but not-so-BiS skill/tactics tend to exaggerate stuff to hide their L2P issues.
Of course, I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but I am saying I'm not about to take things at face value just because someone said so. I do know for a fact how sucky most people are in NW PvE. I know for a fact that people being used to carebear difficulty levels are to be expected to go through a long period of adaptation, and having tried out some of the new content in preview, I also know for a fact that it's not as difficult as some people claim it is (in regards to LS and regen changes).
So I'd rather remain the skeptic in this case.
Another obvious and useless reply. Hexers sometimes can resist CC even on live now, imagine now on preview at lvl 73. It just doesn't work most of the times, you'll love those "IMMUNE" yellow writings . Btw there's still time for a little change, i don't think mod6 Is coming out on 7th april, unless devs are making the smart move Of not uploading half Of it on preview before launch, but i doubt it
Matt Shieldheart 3.5k GF Conq PVE _ Matt Shieldheart 0 3.5k GF Tactician PVE _ Matt Shieldheart II 4.1k Buffer DC _ Matt Shieldheart III 4.3k Thauma CW _ Matt Shieldheart IV 3.5k Exe TR _ Matt Shieldheart V 3.9k Destroyer GWF _ Matt Shieldheart VI 3.1k Trapper HR _ Matt Shieldheart VII 3.1k Fury SW _ Matt ShieldheartVIII 3.6k OP Justice _ Matt Shieldheart -8 3.1k Healadin _ Matt Shieldheart -9 3.1k Mof Rene CW
Hexers go to CC immune status when they start laying down the red circle, in which case they just stand still with their staff planted to the ground doing nothing...which is one of the grand total of two or three attacks they have. You must be joking to mention of their limited CC immunity as a reason for not being able to stop their healing action.
If you are serious, then I think I have a good idea why you find things so difficult.
I think the same can be applied to the players as well. The days left 'til April 7th is a good time to rethink one's own playstyle or habits to see if there isn't something you might be doing inefficiently, or requires more practice. Just saying.
This has never been the kind of game where people use teamwork and creative problem solving to achieve success in pve. It is about the zerg and about glitching, and catching a pve pug group where everyone is on the same page in those two areas. IF the devs can pull off somehow shifting the community paradigm in that sense, well I'll be the first to congratulate them on a job well done.
Maybe the single key reason why I don't see real team work coming into play mod 6 pve, are class balance issues. CW DC TR. Beyond that is filler, and really a TR will not be as valuable in a dungeon as another CW or DC. HR, GF, GWF, OP, SW...filler at best, liabilities at worst in dungeons and will struggle with solo content.
And lets even say a 15k filler class with a skilled player driving it will be challenged but will overcome and be successful. That still leaves out 80% of the playerbase. In other words I don't think the content will be do-able by the majority of players and we can reason why it will not be, but that reasoning is moot to the fact. Content that the majority of your playerbase will fail at is poor game development. No getting around that.
Again, it would have made sense for the really hard stuff to be brand new content gated past 70, and for the current 60-70 content to just be tweaked u a few notches.
They will probably tone this all down. But that is kind of a shame. There needs to be content that is challenging to skilled players.
Mod 6 just doesn't seem well planned to me no matter how I look at it.
Cough.. HR Trapper a filler ? YOU WOT M8 ?
Ever heard of neverending roots of doom 24/7 dance ?
YOU LOCO !
Whats wrong with being a filler? If ye talking bout CC, CW is more preferred coz mob dun hit players when they are frozen. Even with crushing root, mob daze for like 1 sec at rank 4.
for 30 seconds. THE same boss can have and another attack if you get hit you are not able to heal for 30 sec.AND also a wipe party attack if the pt dont do something need to do.THAT is interesting challenge for skillfull players not just buff the mobs.
Also the fun of Neverwinter is how powerful you can get in the endgame and if players have to spend hundreds of hours to get gear which is barely enough to scrape by then there is no sense of progression.
my point is even for bis player should based on tactic challenge.i hate the fact just burn ( valindra module 5 even from low gs characters)
I dont mind dying a lot if I mess up a mechanic or stand in the stupid but 90% of the times I died on test doing dungeons I didnt know what the F happened and had to go to ACT to see what even hit me. I like a good challenge but "dont get close enough to attack anything and you wont die" is not a strategy melee DPS can work with
damage reduction is so borked on test right now I have almost 7k def and that gives me a whopping 28.5% damage resist to get back to my lev 60 levels, with no diminishing returns at 400Def per .5% DR it would take another 14k def or 34 more AC and I just dont see any gear or rank of enchant that will get me anywhere close to that
agreed I hate that the best part of VT was if you didnt pop enough coffins it was a wipe and not the steamroll that zombie ho that it has turned into BUT dying to unpopped coffins is one thing dying because her first AoE one shotted all of the party but the tank and or healer is cheap and thats what the new dungeons are not hard but cheap.
Cryptic wants a more "rainbow" party then make threat for tanks better, make healing mean something ... you cant heal when you have 2 states full health and dead. not once in all of my runs was i able to go hey "I am low health better back out and chug a pot" I was alive and full and dead and waiting to be revived.
right now as it stand is less "hey lets make more dungeons that harder and more mechanic based" and instead the cheap and easy route of nefing everyones stats and making the dungeons hit harder.
it seems like the devs have chosen the latter with one new area for leveling and 3 reskins of old areas and I am not sure about the other classes "new" encounters but GWF are all reskins of other classes powers
painting blitz from purple to red and calling it hidden daggers is not a "new" power nor is stealing GF daily and calling it a new encounter... then propmptly nerfing it into uselessness (I have at wills that hit harder than that encounter)
honestly if this is supposed to go live in 7 days then get ready for a buggy buggy trainwreck
Yea..mechanics like VT/MC is what make dungeon challenging..i like the design very much and i still do VT if i m looking for challenge..it require more of team coordination to succeed. Its better than just plain burning mob down which sometime makes me doze of in the middle of dungeon.. Making something like trash mob 1 hitting u just makes it worse..u just got nothing to start of ur game
There are two tiers of epic dungeons at lvl 70. The first one has been reported to be quite easy.
"press f" to stop mob spawn is not a satisfying feeling in an action-combat game.
Lair of Lostmauth is, in my opinion, the best designed final boss fight so far.
Players must move to avoid fireballs, falling rocks, and lava.
I would love to see more vertical movement in dungeons and in boss fights.
Fighting in a flat, circular arena can be boring.
Its a different story when mod 6 come..with lifesteal and regen nerf.
They work so hard on trying to balance pve with pvp, the same effort should be done with dungeons, which, at the end of the day, SHOULD be the end-game.