Just spent 2 hours on test server albeit not on my CW. Life steal is now pretty much useless as it has become a random heal (it does heal big when it procs) with a pretty lengthy time between procs.
Heroic Encounter level 63 mobs hit hard (little crabs are vicious) and often. I was on my GWF wearing Templar gear with 5200 defense, 1900 deflect, and 34k health and the little crabs were buzz sawing though my health (Avatar of War set was like tissue paper so changed it out) in Unstoppable. The crabs were chewing through my friends TR even with ITC and Smoke Bomb.
I really do not think SP thaurm in High Vizier using COI, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, and Steal Time without Life Steal (old version) will be viable anymore. Controlling adds through Entangling, Singularity, and Furious Immolation will likely become required. The days of easy peasy kills and stupid insane dps may be over.
I do not see any of this as a "NERF" but just moving all classes back into line for more party friendly groups.
Really? I didn't experience this at all. I took my High Vizier CW (just under 19k, 28k HP) and I fought all the lvl 61-63 mobs with no problem. The crabs weren't much of a challenge at all, actually. Yeah I got silly stupid spike heals from Life Steal procs, at the times when I definitely did not need it of course. My LS chance is at 13%. I only had to drink one potion, and that is when one mob caught me off guard while I was chatting and my LS didn't happen to proc.
My concern is that this change to LS is going to disfavor Master of Flame DOTs and more strongly favor Spell Storm burst damage. Because you don't want your LS to proc on some little itty bitty Smolder tick, and the more of these you have, you may end up essentially wasting your LS procs. I guess I'll have to wait and see though if I actually have any difficulty with the mobs going forward. But yeah, lvl 63 mobs in HV gear was no problemo.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2015
Just thought I would point out the changes to lifesteal makes the renegade chaos magic buff even more powerful in a group, as chaotic growth now has an absolutely amazing effect in contrast to how it was before. As lifesteal has become an unreliable thing, the ability to magically essentially grant us that old lifesteal healing back is super amazing and that is exactly what the chaotic growth buff essentially does.
GWF:25% aoe, Tr: Deathknell , SW: Good passives instead of Shadowwalk or Flames of Empowerement.
While others got serious upgrades I cannot see our buffs compared to them...
These two new passives won't be took instead of strom spell or eots.
(Frost Wave is for pvp and I doubt Arcane Power Field dmg that better)
Mod6 is playing without LifeSteal. Hopefully the other core feature of CW, the "I kill them before they can touch me", aka "Death is the best cc" won't be harmed as much.
Really? I didn't experience this at all. I took my High Vizier CW (just under 19k, 28k HP) and I fought all the lvl 61-63 mobs with no problem. The crabs weren't much of a challenge at all, actually. Yeah I got silly stupid spike heals from Life Steal procs, at the times when I definitely did not need it of course. My LS chance is at 13%. I only had to drink one potion, and that is when one mob caught me off guard while I was chatting and my LS didn't happen to proc.
My concern is that this change to LS is going to disfavor Master of Flame DOTs and more strongly favor Spell Storm burst damage. Because you don't want your LS to proc on some little itty bitty Smolder tick, and the more of these you have, you may end up essentially wasting your LS procs. I guess I'll have to wait and see though if I actually have any difficulty with the mobs going forward. But yeah, lvl 63 mobs in HV gear was no problemo.
You probably didn't hit level 61. As soon as you cross that threshold most of your stats get nerfed into the ground. Your lifesteal chance will get divided by 3 and you will have problems surviving. The devs haven't responded if this is working as intended or not.
My concern is that this change to LS is going to disfavor Master of Flame DOTs and more strongly favor Spell Storm burst damage. Because you don't want your LS to proc on some little itty bitty Smolder tick, and the more of these you have, you may end up essentially wasting your LS procs.
A little curious why you think the MoF DOTs are going to be a waste of LS procs. I don't recall seeing anything about LS proc cooldowns so I would think getting smolder ticks wouldn't be a bad thing because you'd be getting a relatively constant stream of small ticks as well. Has testing shown otherwise?
You won't be FORCED to run with a healer, you'll just have to be more careful about it. You certainly won't be chain pulling large portions of an instance without one...probably need a tank, too. But with the Paladin being able to heal, the DC getting a big rework and the Warlock being popular, I can't imagine finding a healer is going to be a problem.
But I like the change. People have been asking for harder PvE content. The lifesteal change alone (combined with higher level dungeons) is going to make PvE harder.
I would have expected certain people here to embrace that.
I do like the changes so far. The thing I'm not liking is being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on stats. Other than that can't complain XD Either way its far to early to call much of anything seeing how nothing is final as of yet ehh
As long as we get damage in the amount as other classes I am ok with it.
For example TR's Deathknell will be OP as hell!
Arcane Power Field? good dmg I hope.
Frost Wave? Is this some kind of automatic stun? Oppforce is already stunning everyone so...
Thaumaturgy: decent and interesting damage buff (which brings some thinking in your rotation), cd reduction: ok
Renegade:
Abyss of Chaos: more piercing damage?
This is just another opportunity for pvp QQers to undermine CW!
Piercing dmg is not good for pve because you have already maxed your armor pen.
Abyss of Chaos's mechanism is reminding me of assailant btw.
Oppressor:
Icy Veins: you can truly be control with this. This makes chilling control obsolete.
umm ya might wanna check the stream they just did.... "allegedly" there will be things with 85-90% resistance XD. So no most do not have enough. But at lvl 61 armor pen does go up a bit :-D
My concern is that this change to LS is going to disfavor Master of Flame DOTs and more strongly favor Spell Storm burst damage. Because you don't want your LS to proc on some little itty bitty Smolder tick, and the more of these you have, you may end up essentially wasting your LS procs.
In module 5 Smolder used to deal about 30% of my output damage both in PvE and PvP. 30% is far far away from little itty bitty imo.
I used to get healed all the time just by DoTs like Smolder.
The formula had changed and now, instead of
100% chance for X% LS
we now get
X% chance for 100% LS
(Yes, base LS severity is 100%). It`s summary the very same.
And while MoF makes a ton of DoTs, should see no big different, while SS should feel it a lot as he does not produces so much DoTs so he either gets no heal or far enough heal from his spells right now.
In summary, that SS will feel this change (not every spell will grant full health now, but X% only), while MoF will get healed from teh DoTs all the time aswell.
There is no cooldown on LS as there is no at any stat with chance and severity (like deflect, crit).
Double check it on Mimic server.
No need to worry about LS for MoFs.
SS will need to consider getting more control if they will fail because of lack of heal, but I am pretty sure there will be no such reason for most of players I used to play with.
PS
I think it`s a nice change anyway.
Any RNG at 10–90% always breaks the monotony so every next group of foes can bring different fight style.
And it is much appreciated
No need to worry about LS for MoFs.
SS will need to consider getting more control if they will fail because of lack of heal, but I am pretty sure there will be no such reason for most of players I used to play with.
I wouldn't go that far. The curve for Lifesteal is subject to a heavy, heavy nerf as you level past 60. Meaning, if you want anywhere close to the same healing rate as you have now you'll need to invest HEAVILY in Dark enchantments. Crossing from level 60 to 61 is brutal.
Going through the new zone on Preview was a breeze. I could solo everything. Then I hit level 61. I tried to duo a HE with a GF and we failed because I kept dying. Even though I was staying behind him and letting him engage enemies first any amount of aggro I drew was enough to kill me. Puzzled by this I pulled up my character sheet. Sure enough, crossing from level 60 to 61 dropped my lifesteal from 15% to around 5%. My damage resistance went from 28% down to about 6%. With my damage output getting a similar nerf I coulf no longer just out-heal any incoming damage.
If these changes stick the days of prancing through Castle Never like it's a field of daisies is over.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I wouldn't go that far. The curve for Lifesteal is subject to a heavy, heavy nerf as you level past 60. Meaning, if you want anywhere close to the same healing rate as you have now you'll need to invest HEAVILY in Dark enchantments. Crossing from level 60 to 61 is brutal.
Going through the new zone on Preview was a breeze. I could solo everything. Then I hit level 61. I tried to duo a HE with a GF and we failed because I kept dying. Even though I was staying behind him and letting him engage enemies first any amount of aggro I drew was enough to kill me. Puzzled by this I pulled up my character sheet. Sure enough, crossing from level 60 to 61 dropped my lifesteal from 15% to around 5%. My damage resistance went from 28% down to about 6%. With my damage output getting a similar nerf I coulf no longer just out-heal any incoming damage.
If these changes stick the days of prancing through Castle Never like it's a field of daisies is over.
With the new stat curves, Chaos Magic is going to be SUBSTANTIALLY more powerful.
Unfortunately, with preview being down both weekends, I haven't had much chance to dig into anything.
Hadn't considered that, but you're right. Healing is going to be a much more valuable commodity going forward.
I suspect that control will also be more desired. With everyone's DPS and defense in the toilet the ability to hold a mob in place either by tank or stuns/freezes may regain a lot of value.
Also with lifesteal being as unreliable as it is a meta that centers around lots and lots of small hits to smooth out the healing may be of value. I may have to revive a Master of Flame/Oppressor/Perfect Lightning build I tested out a while ago to see if it can do a good mix of control/healing/damage under the new set of rules. Hybrid builds may even come into play going forward; where you forgo a capstone to instead grab four Third Tier feats in two different trees. There's a lot of options on the table that could be viable.
My CW is currently 18k GS, but I usually don't rely on the life steal. I use potions and that's enough to keep me alive. But, I'm not denying that this life steal change won't affect CWs. VT end fight could be hard without old life steal for example..
But, I don't think Master of Flame CW will out perform (be the best over) Spell Storm CWs. I mean, in order to trigger life steal, you need high % and multi hits right? Don't we have: Magic missile, Icy terrain, Steal time and even Conduit of Ice? ontop of that Storm spell, that count towards additional hit.
My CW is currently 18k GS, but I usually don't rely on the life steal. I use potions and that's enough to keep me alive. But, I'm not denying that this life steal change won't affect CWs. VT end fight could be hard without old life steal for example..
But, I don't think Master of Flame CW will out perform (be the best over) Spell Storm CWs. I mean, in order to trigger life steal, you need high % and multi hits right? Don't we have: Magic missile, Icy terrain, Steal time and even Conduit of Ice? ontop of that Storm spell, that count towards additional hit.
A Master of Flame can use Conduit of Ice, Steal time and Icy Terrain as well. But in addition they have ticks of smoulder damage which outnumber Storm Spell procs by a wide margin. I'm not banking on MoF "outperforming" SS in terms of damage or clearing content but in terms of getting more procs of a smaller amount of lifesteal to smooth out the healing to a more dependable rate, MoF builds would definitely have an edge there.
Well it's a bit of a relief anyway to learn that perhaps my fears are unfounded about MoF vs. SS when it comes to LS.
Anyway, my current thoughts going forward for my MoF CW:
- Focus on Darks/Azures/Draconics for defense because we will all need more DR and more LS, and it sounds like our HP is going to be getting a free boost from leveling anyway, so less need to focus on Radiants for defense. It looks like we will need 4000 defense just to have 10% DR. Also thinking about Lathander cloak because it has AC.
- Focus on Azures for offense because I will really need help to get my critical chance up in order to proc Smolder via Critical Conflagration. It looks like, to get +10% crit chance, I will need 7000 critical strike(!!!). Maybe take another look at CHA belt? But it has awful Deflect stat. Ugh.
I would like to stick with Thaum but now the Renegade Chilling Advantage feat becomes really really tempting and perhaps almost mandatory if I'm going to use Critical Conflagration to proc Smolder. But that means abandoning Swath of Destruction in favor of Chilling Presence, which is also really really hard to do. So, I am not really sure here.
Well it's a bit of a relief anyway to learn that perhaps my fears are unfounded about MoF vs. SS when it comes to LS.
Anyway, my current thoughts going forward for my MoF CW:
- Focus on Darks/Azures/Draconics for defense because we will all need more DR and more LS, and it sounds like our HP is going to be getting a free boost from leveling anyway, so less need to focus on Radiants for defense. It looks like we will need 4000 defense just to have 10% DR. Also thinking about Lathander cloak because it has AC.
- Focus on Azures for offense because I will really need help to get my critical chance up in order to proc Smolder via Critical Conflagration. It looks like, to get +10% crit chance, I will need 7000 critical strike(!!!). Maybe take another look at CHA belt? But it has awful Deflect stat. Ugh.
I would like to stick with Thaum but now the Renegade Chilling Advantage feat becomes really really tempting and perhaps almost mandatory if I'm going to use Critical Conflagration to proc Smolder. But that means abandoning Swath of Destruction in favor of Chilling Presence, which is also really really hard to do. So, I am not really sure here.
Defense is not going to be a worthwhile stat. It is so inferior in increasing your effective health pool compared to HP that there are virtually no circumstances where a player would be better off with Defense than HP.
Comments
Really? I didn't experience this at all. I took my High Vizier CW (just under 19k, 28k HP) and I fought all the lvl 61-63 mobs with no problem. The crabs weren't much of a challenge at all, actually. Yeah I got silly stupid spike heals from Life Steal procs, at the times when I definitely did not need it of course. My LS chance is at 13%. I only had to drink one potion, and that is when one mob caught me off guard while I was chatting and my LS didn't happen to proc.
My concern is that this change to LS is going to disfavor Master of Flame DOTs and more strongly favor Spell Storm burst damage. Because you don't want your LS to proc on some little itty bitty Smolder tick, and the more of these you have, you may end up essentially wasting your LS procs. I guess I'll have to wait and see though if I actually have any difficulty with the mobs going forward. But yeah, lvl 63 mobs in HV gear was no problemo.
GWF:25% aoe, Tr: Deathknell , SW: Good passives instead of Shadowwalk or Flames of Empowerement.
While others got serious upgrades I cannot see our buffs compared to them...
These two new passives won't be took instead of strom spell or eots.
(Frost Wave is for pvp and I doubt Arcane Power Field dmg that better)
Wasn't really directed at you at all. But you can go not play PVP or get stomped by them
You probably didn't hit level 61. As soon as you cross that threshold most of your stats get nerfed into the ground. Your lifesteal chance will get divided by 3 and you will have problems surviving. The devs haven't responded if this is working as intended or not.
A little curious why you think the MoF DOTs are going to be a waste of LS procs. I don't recall seeing anything about LS proc cooldowns so I would think getting smolder ticks wouldn't be a bad thing because you'd be getting a relatively constant stream of small ticks as well. Has testing shown otherwise?
I do like the changes so far. The thing I'm not liking is being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on stats. Other than that can't complain XD Either way its far to early to call much of anything seeing how nothing is final as of yet ehh
umm ya might wanna check the stream they just did.... "allegedly" there will be things with 85-90% resistance XD. So no most do not have enough. But at lvl 61 armor pen does go up a bit :-D
http://www.twitch.tv/perfectworld_community/c/6003266
28:20 talks about resistance
In module 5 Smolder used to deal about 30% of my output damage both in PvE and PvP. 30% is far far away from little itty bitty imo.
I used to get healed all the time just by DoTs like Smolder.
The formula had changed and now, instead of
And while MoF makes a ton of DoTs, should see no big different, while SS should feel it a lot as he does not produces so much DoTs so he either gets no heal or far enough heal from his spells right now.
In summary, that SS will feel this change (not every spell will grant full health now, but X% only), while MoF will get healed from teh DoTs all the time aswell.
There is no cooldown on LS as there is no at any stat with chance and severity (like deflect, crit).
Double check it on Mimic server.
No need to worry about LS for MoFs.
SS will need to consider getting more control if they will fail because of lack of heal, but I am pretty sure there will be no such reason for most of players I used to play with.
PS
I think it`s a nice change anyway.
Any RNG at 10–90% always breaks the monotony so every next group of foes can bring different fight style.
And it is much appreciated
I wouldn't go that far. The curve for Lifesteal is subject to a heavy, heavy nerf as you level past 60. Meaning, if you want anywhere close to the same healing rate as you have now you'll need to invest HEAVILY in Dark enchantments. Crossing from level 60 to 61 is brutal.
Going through the new zone on Preview was a breeze. I could solo everything. Then I hit level 61. I tried to duo a HE with a GF and we failed because I kept dying. Even though I was staying behind him and letting him engage enemies first any amount of aggro I drew was enough to kill me. Puzzled by this I pulled up my character sheet. Sure enough, crossing from level 60 to 61 dropped my lifesteal from 15% to around 5%. My damage resistance went from 28% down to about 6%. With my damage output getting a similar nerf I coulf no longer just out-heal any incoming damage.
If these changes stick the days of prancing through Castle Never like it's a field of daisies is over.
Unless they nerf perma tr, it is far from over
Unfortunately, with preview being down both weekends, I haven't had much chance to dig into anything.
Hadn't considered that, but you're right. Healing is going to be a much more valuable commodity going forward.
I suspect that control will also be more desired. With everyone's DPS and defense in the toilet the ability to hold a mob in place either by tank or stuns/freezes may regain a lot of value.
Also with lifesteal being as unreliable as it is a meta that centers around lots and lots of small hits to smooth out the healing may be of value. I may have to revive a Master of Flame/Oppressor/Perfect Lightning build I tested out a while ago to see if it can do a good mix of control/healing/damage under the new set of rules. Hybrid builds may even come into play going forward; where you forgo a capstone to instead grab four Third Tier feats in two different trees. There's a lot of options on the table that could be viable.
But, I don't think Master of Flame CW will out perform (be the best over) Spell Storm CWs. I mean, in order to trigger life steal, you need high % and multi hits right? Don't we have: Magic missile, Icy terrain, Steal time and even Conduit of Ice? ontop of that Storm spell, that count towards additional hit.
A Master of Flame can use Conduit of Ice, Steal time and Icy Terrain as well. But in addition they have ticks of smoulder damage which outnumber Storm Spell procs by a wide margin. I'm not banking on MoF "outperforming" SS in terms of damage or clearing content but in terms of getting more procs of a smaller amount of lifesteal to smooth out the healing to a more dependable rate, MoF builds would definitely have an edge there.
Anyway, my current thoughts going forward for my MoF CW:
- Focus on Darks/Azures/Draconics for defense because we will all need more DR and more LS, and it sounds like our HP is going to be getting a free boost from leveling anyway, so less need to focus on Radiants for defense. It looks like we will need 4000 defense just to have 10% DR. Also thinking about Lathander cloak because it has AC.
- Focus on Azures for offense because I will really need help to get my critical chance up in order to proc Smolder via Critical Conflagration. It looks like, to get +10% crit chance, I will need 7000 critical strike(!!!). Maybe take another look at CHA belt? But it has awful Deflect stat. Ugh.
I would like to stick with Thaum but now the Renegade Chilling Advantage feat becomes really really tempting and perhaps almost mandatory if I'm going to use Critical Conflagration to proc Smolder. But that means abandoning Swath of Destruction in favor of Chilling Presence, which is also really really hard to do. So, I am not really sure here.
Defense is not going to be a worthwhile stat. It is so inferior in increasing your effective health pool compared to HP that there are virtually no circumstances where a player would be better off with Defense than HP.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?831701-Official-Feedback-Thread-Stat-Changes&p=10040031&viewfull=1#post10040031
In the combat log it showed this: Your Ice Knife deals -2147483648 (-2147483648) Cold Damage to Target Dummy.