I think it's rather ballsy of you to be referring to mostly just a few players from one guild when you say "no one."
In any case, if they make SE respect tenacity/DR, I think TR will be balanced, as long as tenacity doesn't negate too much of SE's damage. It should still hit really hard; just not essentially guarantee a kill the moment a player is at ~70-80% HP.
Call it like I see it. Majority of premade parties running with 2+ TRs, regardless of guild. Just like with GWFs in prior mods.
While i said "+1" to this, i must say that you are wrong in a thing: SE is affected by CW's shield due it (shied) can mitigate any kind of damage, even piercing one.
CW shield acts more like barkshield in some ways, you are correct if you hit a fully shielded CW then damage will be minimal. However, as Req said before, "any half decent TR" will throw a couple of daggers at a CW (to remove their shield) before CCing them and then finishing them with SE.
SE and most of TR skills are good and fine: the main problem with those "numbers" are not the "100% crit from steal" but the RAW POWER BONUS on all classes beside/out side GWF-class have. While "my" class needs 8k+ on power to do around 1.5k damage with Sure Strike, using TR as an example due is the "main star" on this post, TR-class just need 3.5k or 4k (max) to deal the same amount of damage with Sly if not more. IF all other classes just have this "power cap", SE, LB, Gloaming, etc, will just hit for almost half the damage they do right now on LIVE, and THAT would be a really nice balance mechanic.
Power is something that we could look at as a potential change, I'd be glad to test it and see if you could change the dynamics of it enough to fix some of the problems, however as I stated TR's also get feats that increase their power. I don't think though, that it's enough. The question is, why do I build armor as a tank class if other classes will get feats that ignore my armor. Just doesn't make any good sense.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
There most definitely are ways to code separate effects for PVP and PVE, they already do. FLS knocks prone in PVE it does not in PVP, this is one of many encounters/feats that work differently in different environments. Let's try and stay on PVP here, feel free to start another forum post about PVE and TRs dps.
Thanks for your reply.
There are ways to code certain effects differently. Not all of them. This is done by changing the way players react to certain powers rather than how the power works. Crit chance is not a class-specific power.
And I'll post where and what I like within the RoC, thanks. Particularly anytime some PvP obsessives are advocating nerfs with potentially serious impacts on the viability of TRs in PvE.
There are ways to code certain effects differently. Not all of them. This is done by changing the way players react to certain powers rather than how the power works. Crit chance is not a class-specific power.
And I'll post where and what I like within the RoC, thanks. Particularly anytime some PvP obsessives are advocating nerfs with potentially serious impacts on the viability of TRs in PvE.
You are wrong about the coding issue, any code may be separated to work differently in different environments.
You may post where and what you like but it's off topic it will not be addressed. When you post off topic you are trying to hijack a thread and it simply won't happen here. If you stick to PVP discussion you have something to add, if you don't you will simply be ignored for the hijacker you are.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
To be fair Req, I have seen your guild as well as other guilds Qing with 2 TRs in their team so...
That said, I agree that SE is the biggest problem and I appreciate you adding your voice to that end.
Thanks for your reply.
Difference is, we don't run that 99.9% of the time; it's the reverse for some small groups of players, where that's all they run 99.9% of the time. It's a pretty big difference.
"Call it like I see it. Majority of premade parties running with 2+ TRs, regardless of guild. Just like with GWFs in prior mods."
Call it like I see it. Majority of premade parties aren't running with 2+ TRs, regardless of guild. And I've played too many matches. Waaay too many
On topic (sorry):
"SE and most of TR skills are good and fine: the main problem with those "numbers" are not the "100% crit from steal" but the RAW POWER BONUS on all classes beside/out side GWF-class have."
That certainly doesn't help, but from what I've seen, there are still 14-16k GS TRs running around one-shotting BiS players with SE, even without that much power stacked.
0
josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
That certainly doesn't help, but from what I've seen, there are still 14-16k GS TRs running around one-shotting BiS players with SE, even without that much power stacked.
Call it like I see it. Majority of premade parties aren't running with 2+ TRs, regardless of guild. And I've played too many matches. Waaay too many
Difference is, we don't run that 99.9% of the time; it's the reverse for some small groups of players, where that's all they run 99.9% of the time.
Consider yourself lucky. It's natural for teams to form up as 'OP' as possible, and we've seen these things happen every mod. The more imbalanced a class, the more 'troll comps' that are run. People don't like going vs. a troll comp, so they run their own troll comps '1% of the time' as a counter. And the cycle repeats. This mod is no different. Best solution is improved class balance, which is the purpose of this thread.
CW shield acts more like barkshield in some ways, you are correct if you hit a fully shielded CW then damage will be minimal. However, as Req said before, "any half decent TR" will throw a couple of daggers at a CW (to remove their shield) before CCing them and then finishing them with SE.
.
cant realy belive you quote and agree with that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
no decent tr would ever open with cos to remove the shield.
im sure you know that yourself but this nerf thing got u messed up so you got even the basics wrong.
cant realy belive you quote and agree with that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
no decent tr would ever open with cos to remove the shield.
im sure you know that yourself but this nerf thing got u messed up so you got even the basics wrong.
I know of at least 2 end game TRs who use COS to remove shield, just because you hadn't figured that one out yet, doesn't mean that it doesn't occur to other players, you're welcome for the pro tip.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
I know of at least 2 end game TRs who use COS to remove shield, just because you hadn't figured that one out yet, doesn't mean that it doesn't occur to other players, you're welcome for the pro tip.
Thanks for your reply.
maybe before stealt reveal but still its stupid leaves u without itc and shadow and u must land a daze
or u get perma cc to death
maybe scoundrell do it but then again its about sab isnt it
its a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tip not using it for sure
and btw i dont belive that at all
no end game tr will post that lol
cant realy belive you quote and agree with that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
no decent tr would ever open with cos to remove the shield.
im sure you know that yourself but this nerf thing got u messed up so you got even the basics wrong.
Tyrion is right here. CoS or even DF will quickly remove shield, and lots of good Saboteur TRs do that, and continue to do so after stealth reveal. Obviously, it's all about proper timing... you're not going to spam CoS to remove shield when it leaves you vulnerable and you have no dazing or SE to follow-up with.
no sab uses df
no decent tr will put him self in position that he has to land dazing or hes dead
and thats what happens if u open with coz
top tr put hard target and gc
cos is to finish not begin
btw just goes to show that writing with emotions always makes u look silly
name one tr that uses df and cos !
the day u and tolkien teach me how to play tr has yet to come
btw just goes to show that writing with emotions always makes u look silly
name one tr that uses df and cos !
Just goes to show that not properly reading what I'm saying makes you look silly. I NEVER said there were TRs who use both DF and CoS. I said that both are good for removing CW shield. You can use either. Or you can be bad and use neither.
No one is saying you have to "open" with CoS. Again... it's about timing...
"no decent tr will put him self in position that he has to land dazing or hes dead"
No one is saying you have to "open" with CoS. Again... it's about timing...
.
au contraire both u and tolkien said it
tolkienbuff:
as Req said before, "any half decent TR" will throw a couple of daggers at a CW (to remove their shield) before CCing them and then finishing them with SE.
and i use gc cos like a pro
and no tr will ever do this ever
only your imaginery end game tr lol
Some peoples write here that how to counter TR with other classes.. But one thing I notice.. They all skip WARLOCK. For god sake. When warlock face TR its become like (finger). Even when I get in domination 60 lv with my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> geared TR I give (finger) to warlock and he die in same moment.. 1 or 2 hits and all they lay dead.
From warlock view point, I have 1, ok 2 control skills. Harrowstorm which require. CURSE > Harrowstorm. Which usually require more than 1 second.. So TR usually do hit>roll>hide and u can't catch him.
Next so called CC. Wraith of shadow. In order to control need CURSE> Wraith of shadow and use skill again to enable unmove effect.. Usually either GWF, TR, CW, GF, DC ignore it.... So same situation as with harrowstorm.. Hit from shadow> roll> hide repeat. And u have 99% that you die without chance to hit back even once...
Also smoke bomb = SW dead.
My warlock don't get top end gear, but hell before TIAMAT expansions I could go in close combat agains GWF by avoiding his attacks.
Now enough to have 1 DC and other 2 TR in party and other team do not even try fight back.
So yea,, TR kinda easy win class.. And I totaly agree with thread starter.. In some view point with TR you have no chalange... Compared to other classes.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
your quote :
any half decent TR" will throw a couple of daggers at a CW (to remove their shield) before CCing them and then finishing them with SE.
and i use gc cos like a pro
and no tr will ever do this ever
only your imaginery end game tr lol
We're not talking about "imaginery" TRs. We're talking about TRs we play with on a daily basis.
Here's another tip: you don't "open" with CoS to reduce CW shield without having ITC and SS up. You should then be able to reduce shield and daze the CW without ending up "dead," and follow up with SE.
This is some pretty obvious, basic TR play.
Edit: I can't really tell from your posts... do you struggle with clearing CWs? Do you actually die to CWs in a 1v1? Are you not able to kill CWs with SE?
Here's another tip: you don't "open" with CoS to reduce CW shield without having ITC and SS up. You should then be able to reduce shield and daze the CW without ending up "dead," and follow up with SE.
no lol even if u have it up u dont open with cos loool coz then u used itc and ss
and all u have is daze which if doesnt land its problem.
i kill all of the top cw in 1v1 on mod 4
only one i couldnt kill was allt if he had bile
stop saying something i never said and going of topic
i quote u
and u make up stuff lol.
i can keep this up for a while but i made my point long time ago
im a tr i trow bait u hook like a nb i make u look silly
u find excuses i laugh but it gets old for me to
no lol even if u have it up u dont open with cos loool coz then u used itc and ss
and all u have is daze which if doesnt land its problem.
i kill all of the top cw in 1v1 on mod 4
only one i couldnt kill was allt if he had bile
That's why "open" is not an appropriate word, which YOU started using. Because obviously, no one ever meant "go to a node and spam CoS as the first thing you do." That's why I said it's about timing. Obviously.
I was asking about mod 5, not mod 4. Also, obviously.
To summarize I feel that dps for the TR is very strong and that SE is definitely too strong when the class has so much other utility working in its favor. Here is what I propose: take away the assured crit from stealth. This would leave the chance for high damage (often greater than 30% crit chance) but it would force TR's to feat into crit rather than leaving it up to a class feature. It would mean that 1 of every 3 shockings would take you down to 5% of your HP and 1 of every 3 gloaming cuts would hit for 15k. This alone would be enough to balance the DPS of the TR this mod imho. I don't propose any other large changes to the class but TR's should not have the ability to 1v2 other classes and kill both of them assuming equal gear and skill.
It is never ok for a class to take 95% of another classes life assuming equal gear with a single attack. Especially if you consider how hard that class already hits and the fact that the class in question almost always gets the first hit. This is no different than being forced into a duel but you are forced to start the duel with 5% life while they get 100% and still hit harder than you and have the option to reset the match anytime they choose. If you think that is fair is any way shape or form then your insane.
That's why "open" is not an appropriate word, which YOU started using. Because obviously, no one ever meant "go to a node and spam CoS as the first thing you do." That's why I said it's about timing. Obviously.
I was asking about mod 5, not mod 4. Also, obviously.
well i can quote u only so much before i lose my grace
and regarding mod 5
its prety obvious isnt it
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
no sab uses df
no decent tr will put him self in position that he has to land dazing or hes dead
and thats what happens if u open with coz
top tr put hard target and gc
cos is to finish not begin
btw just goes to show that writing with emotions always makes u look silly
name one tr that uses df and cos !
the day u and tolkien teach me how to play tr has yet to come
I am sab and i use df....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
i meant to say no sab uses df with cos together as stated.
anyway bis tr dont use df at all
its not optimal coz u lose range-so many times cant finish the target he go for the heals
very easy to dodge
u can get dazed more easy against another sab
Is it not you hypocrites who mock and humiliate TR in previous mods? now that we got buff you want us to return to that useless state you always hated.
Well, seems like TR-players are as ******s as some HR and CW players were back on mod4... We, no TR-players, just want not being one-shoted by TR-class like you, TR-players, in example, complained about being perma frozen in mod 4, being killed by just 2 hits from a HR, etc.
CW and HR is different story its range with 4-6 encounters, tons of CC coupled by nuke, a class mechanic hussle free with no cooldown (HR) you want me to enumerate more? one hit by what? Lashing Blade? with long cooldown and melee range? compare that to Ice Knife and Fox Cunning that has invulnerability built in it?. You want a list of comparison so that you will know whos life is easier? I know alot of range class built as glass cannon because in previous mod TR have pathetic damage output thats why you want to nerf its damage so you can keep your OP dps and you dont need to invest on survivability right?
Btw range class "arent tanks" they have the poorest survivability so dont expect them to be unkillable and a monstrous assassin all at the same time.
Ppl never satisfected
Ppl never look theirself to improve more
Trs was op in the begging of mod5 because we wanted to get some fun also..
Like how u did all class in a period of time((our fun was shortest btw because of fasttt forum whiners))
Anyway we get crazy big nerf about stealth.but ppl never satisfected
Look guyz if u cant kill a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tr right now its all because of your low skill
Because there is plenty ıf player who can clean me so fast as 1v1 who KNOW tr!!!
İnstead of wish to santa work biiitchess !!!
This game made by whiners.....
And devs who listen pug whiners....
dEVS dont listen these *****ess they are all pug and ****
While i get destroy by <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> low skill op class in m3-m4 ive never come to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> stupid website and whine like how u did all...
İf u cant think like tr or if u havent practise with a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> pro tr ages u have 0 chance sadly. İts not about beeing op or nıt its all about skill base
İ swear there is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> op players who give alotttttt of pain even like this
Some of them was killing me even in begging of mod5 stop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> whine!!!!!!!!!
And iyon if i remember well u were the one who snipe us as 2xtr((((bleeders...)))) + dps dc.... Gayest comp ive ever seen.......
Ps: only noobs bleeds.
Road runners...
İnstead of listen pugs on forum and nerf stealth mechanism if they would ask me
My personal idea::: before these nerfs in the begging of m5 they had to;;
1.remove peircing damage from bb
2.make each shock take down %50 hp instead %95
3.make increase ceit chance %20 which till be %40 in stealth and outsşde stealth %20
But its all over because this 2 second nerf with these stupid random damage nerf all is done
Have no idea what this means, but I wait some TR changes to coming up before I go back PvP(or game itself), best PvP team is TR TR TR DC TR or DC TR TR DC TR ... is there other good options than TR?
BTW, 2second visibility with current server lag/glitches is pretty ZERO, .
Comments
Call it like I see it. Majority of premade parties running with 2+ TRs, regardless of guild. Just like with GWFs in prior mods.
On your suggestion: seems reasonable.
Iyon the Dark
CW shield acts more like barkshield in some ways, you are correct if you hit a fully shielded CW then damage will be minimal. However, as Req said before, "any half decent TR" will throw a couple of daggers at a CW (to remove their shield) before CCing them and then finishing them with SE.
Power is something that we could look at as a potential change, I'd be glad to test it and see if you could change the dynamics of it enough to fix some of the problems, however as I stated TR's also get feats that increase their power. I don't think though, that it's enough. The question is, why do I build armor as a tank class if other classes will get feats that ignore my armor. Just doesn't make any good sense.
And I'll post where and what I like within the RoC, thanks. Particularly anytime some PvP obsessives are advocating nerfs with potentially serious impacts on the viability of TRs in PvE.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
You are wrong about the coding issue, any code may be separated to work differently in different environments.
You may post where and what you like but it's off topic it will not be addressed. When you post off topic you are trying to hijack a thread and it simply won't happen here. If you stick to PVP discussion you have something to add, if you don't you will simply be ignored for the hijacker you are.
Thanks for your reply.
Difference is, we don't run that 99.9% of the time; it's the reverse for some small groups of players, where that's all they run 99.9% of the time. It's a pretty big difference.
"Call it like I see it. Majority of premade parties running with 2+ TRs, regardless of guild. Just like with GWFs in prior mods."
Call it like I see it. Majority of premade parties aren't running with 2+ TRs, regardless of guild. And I've played too many matches. Waaay too many
On topic (sorry):
"SE and most of TR skills are good and fine: the main problem with those "numbers" are not the "100% crit from steal" but the RAW POWER BONUS on all classes beside/out side GWF-class have."
That certainly doesn't help, but from what I've seen, there are still 14-16k GS TRs running around one-shotting BiS players with SE, even without that much power stacked.
Consider yourself lucky. It's natural for teams to form up as 'OP' as possible, and we've seen these things happen every mod. The more imbalanced a class, the more 'troll comps' that are run. People don't like going vs. a troll comp, so they run their own troll comps '1% of the time' as a counter. And the cycle repeats. This mod is no different. Best solution is improved class balance, which is the purpose of this thread.
Iyon the Dark
cant realy belive you quote and agree with that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
no decent tr would ever open with cos to remove the shield.
im sure you know that yourself but this nerf thing got u messed up so you got even the basics wrong.
I know of at least 2 end game TRs who use COS to remove shield, just because you hadn't figured that one out yet, doesn't mean that it doesn't occur to other players, you're welcome for the pro tip.
Thanks for your reply.
maybe before stealt reveal but still its stupid leaves u without itc and shadow and u must land a daze
or u get perma cc to death
maybe scoundrell do it but then again its about sab isnt it
its a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tip not using it for sure
and btw i dont belive that at all
no end game tr will post that lol
Tyrion is right here. CoS or even DF will quickly remove shield, and lots of good Saboteur TRs do that, and continue to do so after stealth reveal. Obviously, it's all about proper timing... you're not going to spam CoS to remove shield when it leaves you vulnerable and you have no dazing or SE to follow-up with.
#getrekt by CWs
no sab uses df
no decent tr will put him self in position that he has to land dazing or hes dead
and thats what happens if u open with coz
top tr put hard target and gc
cos is to finish not begin
btw just goes to show that writing with emotions always makes u look silly
name one tr that uses df and cos !
the day u and tolkien teach me how to play tr has yet to come
Just goes to show that not properly reading what I'm saying makes you look silly. I NEVER said there were TRs who use both DF and CoS. I said that both are good for removing CW shield. You can use either. Or you can be bad and use neither.
No one is saying you have to "open" with CoS. Again... it's about timing...
"no decent tr will put him self in position that he has to land dazing or hes dead"
I think you've got some practicing to do.
au contraire both u and tolkien said it
tolkienbuff:
as Req said before, "any half decent TR" will throw a couple of daggers at a CW (to remove their shield) before CCing them and then finishing them with SE.
and i use gc cos like a pro
and no tr will ever do this ever
only your imaginery end game tr lol
From warlock view point, I have 1, ok 2 control skills. Harrowstorm which require. CURSE > Harrowstorm. Which usually require more than 1 second.. So TR usually do hit>roll>hide and u can't catch him.
Next so called CC. Wraith of shadow. In order to control need CURSE> Wraith of shadow and use skill again to enable unmove effect.. Usually either GWF, TR, CW, GF, DC ignore it.... So same situation as with harrowstorm.. Hit from shadow> roll> hide repeat. And u have 99% that you die without chance to hit back even once...
Also smoke bomb = SW dead.
My warlock don't get top end gear, but hell before TIAMAT expansions I could go in close combat agains GWF by avoiding his attacks.
Now enough to have 1 DC and other 2 TR in party and other team do not even try fight back.
So yea,, TR kinda easy win class.. And I totaly agree with thread starter.. In some view point with TR you have no chalange... Compared to other classes.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
We're not talking about "imaginery" TRs. We're talking about TRs we play with on a daily basis.
Here's another tip: you don't "open" with CoS to reduce CW shield without having ITC and SS up. You should then be able to reduce shield and daze the CW without ending up "dead," and follow up with SE.
This is some pretty obvious, basic TR play.
Edit: I can't really tell from your posts... do you struggle with clearing CWs? Do you actually die to CWs in a 1v1? Are you not able to kill CWs with SE?
no lol even if u have it up u dont open with cos loool coz then u used itc and ss
and all u have is daze which if doesnt land its problem.
i kill all of the top cw in 1v1 on mod 4
only one i couldnt kill was allt if he had bile
stop saying something i never said and going of topic
i quote u
and u make up stuff lol.
i can keep this up for a while but i made my point long time ago
im a tr i trow bait u hook like a nb i make u look silly
u find excuses i laugh but it gets old for me to
That's why "open" is not an appropriate word, which YOU started using. Because obviously, no one ever meant "go to a node and spam CoS as the first thing you do." That's why I said it's about timing. Obviously.
I was asking about mod 5, not mod 4. Also, obviously.
It is never ok for a class to take 95% of another classes life assuming equal gear with a single attack. Especially if you consider how hard that class already hits and the fact that the class in question almost always gets the first hit. This is no different than being forced into a duel but you are forced to start the duel with 5% life while they get 100% and still hit harder than you and have the option to reset the match anytime they choose. If you think that is fair is any way shape or form then your insane.
well i can quote u only so much before i lose my grace
and regarding mod 5
its prety obvious isnt it
I am sab and i use df....
i meant to say no sab uses df with cos together as stated.
anyway bis tr dont use df at all
its not optimal coz u lose range-so many times cant finish the target he go for the heals
very easy to dodge
u can get dazed more easy against another sab
same gear skill lvl i dont see it as advantage
CW and HR is different story its range with 4-6 encounters, tons of CC coupled by nuke, a class mechanic hussle free with no cooldown (HR) you want me to enumerate more? one hit by what? Lashing Blade? with long cooldown and melee range? compare that to Ice Knife and Fox Cunning that has invulnerability built in it?. You want a list of comparison so that you will know whos life is easier? I know alot of range class built as glass cannon because in previous mod TR have pathetic damage output thats why you want to nerf its damage so you can keep your OP dps and you dont need to invest on survivability right?
Btw range class "arent tanks" they have the poorest survivability so dont expect them to be unkillable and a monstrous assassin all at the same time.
Ppl never satisfected
Ppl never look theirself to improve more
Trs was op in the begging of mod5 because we wanted to get some fun also..
Like how u did all class in a period of time((our fun was shortest btw because of fasttt forum whiners))
Anyway we get crazy big nerf about stealth.but ppl never satisfected
Look guyz if u cant kill a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tr right now its all because of your low skill
Because there is plenty ıf player who can clean me so fast as 1v1 who KNOW tr!!!
İnstead of wish to santa work biiitchess !!!
This game made by whiners.....
And devs who listen pug whiners....
dEVS dont listen these *****ess they are all pug and ****
While i get destroy by <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> low skill op class in m3-m4 ive never come to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> stupid website and whine like how u did all...
İf u cant think like tr or if u havent practise with a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> pro tr ages u have 0 chance sadly. İts not about beeing op or nıt its all about skill base
İ swear there is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> op players who give alotttttt of pain even like this
Some of them was killing me even in begging of mod5 stop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> whine!!!!!!!!!
And iyon if i remember well u were the one who snipe us as 2xtr((((bleeders...)))) + dps dc.... Gayest comp ive ever seen.......
Ps: only noobs bleeds.
Road runners...
İnstead of listen pugs on forum and nerf stealth mechanism if they would ask me
My personal idea::: before these nerfs in the begging of m5 they had to;;
1.remove peircing damage from bb
2.make each shock take down %50 hp instead %95
3.make increase ceit chance %20 which till be %40 in stealth and outsşde stealth %20
But its all over because this 2 second nerf with these stupid random damage nerf all is done
Have no idea what this means, but I wait some TR changes to coming up before I go back PvP(or game itself), best PvP team is TR TR TR DC TR or DC TR TR DC TR ... is there other good options than TR?
BTW, 2second visibility with current server lag/glitches is pretty ZERO,