We will continue to monitor this situation closely, but we will be moving forward with the system that's described above.
That's pretty disappointing. A lot of my friends and guild members are walking away from this part of the game simply because you can't get in with a group who likes to play together. I have to admit I can't really disagree with them, the fight right now is barely tolerable, and seen as a chore just to get the favors...what I think has been missed here is that people are doing it to get 15 favors for the off hand, then not bothering any more. Not because it couldn't be a good fight, but because it just isn't fun this way. I play in a very active guild that enjoys running any and all dungeons or skirmishes together in groups. This simply doesn't let us do that. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who feel the same. I'm not convinced a queue would solve it entirely but at least keeping parties together would be a big step towards what I and others found appealing about this game when we started playing it.
That's pretty disappointing. A lot of my friends and guild members are walking away from this part of the game simply because you can't get in with a group who likes to play together. I have to admit I can't really disagree with them, the fight right now is barely tolerable, and seen as a chore just to get the favors...what I think has been missed here is that people are doing it to get 15 favors for the off hand, then not bothering any more. Not because it couldn't be a good fight, but because it just isn't fun this way. I play in a very active guild that enjoys running any and all dungeons or skirmishes together in groups. This simply doesn't let us do that. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who feel the same. I'm not convinced a queue would solve it entirely but at least keeping parties together would be a big step towards what I and others found appealing about this game when we started playing it.
How about putting a GS min to get into Tiamat like 14k or something 13k n lower just do not have the dps to do any good. I see so many failing cause of this
Last week we posted an update to a few issues players were experiencing with the Tiamat fight. While we did make some improvements to the fight, turning it into a queued instance did not have the desired effects we wanted it to and the current method of entry will remain as it is.
After close examination and many playtests, we’ve found that a queue feature (similar to the one we initially outlined) could jeopardize a few of the positive aspects of the battle with Tiamat. It would have also been very vulnerable to griefing, potentially causing players to miss out on the fight entirely. Because of this, a decision has been made to not move to a queue system. The entrance to the fight will remain the same.....
While much has been done to improve this fight, it actually seems to be harder to win now. I've been fortunate to have a few wins so I know the fight isn't terribly hard when done right. However, since the latest update I haven't been in a winning event (yeah, I know that happens, stop whining). More disturbing though is that with one exception, the events I have been in seem to be doing even worse than before. While people no longer have the option to disappear and hop over to another instance like fleas, I see a lot of people giving up and either leaving or just trolling by the campfire waiting for the timer to count down. Most people now know whether the event they are in is going to win by the end of the first round of fighting. Let's face it, if you can't keep the defence of the clerics well-balanced and can't at least clear 2 (ideally 3) heads during the first fight, you are pretty much guaranteed a loss. Maybe if people tried really hard they could turn things aground and squeek out a win, but too many are just giving up.
Ultimately, this becomes a very frustrating waste of time for everyone involved. It is a game and while it should be challenging, it shouldn't be totally left up to chance. Put in a GS like everyone is asking for - contrary to the comment above, this doesn't mean people won't get the chance to play the event. They just need to do more work to get to the GS so they are ready for the fight. And let people join as parties at least so we can play with our friends instead of a random bunch of people we can't necessarily rely on.
Btw, is it just me or does there seem to be more monsters spawning now during the defence of the clerics? Most times the clerics seem to be overwhelmed, meaning it is taking way to long to get through that part of the event.
This can be a very fun event when things go well. But after a dozen or so straight losses, it is getting just a tad frustrating.
Last week we posted an update to a few issues players were experiencing with the Tiamat fight. While we did make some improvements to the fight, turning it into a queued instance did not have the desired effects we wanted it to and the current method of entry will remain as it is.
After close examination and many playtests, we’ve found that a queue feature (similar to the one we initially outlined) could jeopardize a few of the positive aspects of the battle with Tiamat. It would have also been very vulnerable to griefing, potentially causing players to miss out on the fight entirely. Because of this, a decision has been made to not move to a queue system. The entrance to the fight will remain the same.
In comparison to the fact that you guys are griefing us with all the bugs in game.
Lets see, the last 3 runs in a row have all bugged out.
That's pretty disappointing. A lot of my friends and guild members are walking away from this part of the game simply because you can't get in with a group who likes to play together. I have to admit I can't really disagree with them, the fight right now is barely tolerable, and seen as a chore just to get the favors...what I think has been missed here is that people are doing it to get 15 favors for the off hand, then not bothering any more. Not because it couldn't be a good fight, but because it just isn't fun this way. I play in a very active guild that enjoys running any and all dungeons or skirmishes together in groups. This simply doesn't let us do that. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who feel the same. I'm not convinced a queue would solve it entirely but at least keeping parties together would be a big step towards what I and others found appealing about this game when we started playing it.
I did my Off-Hand from Tiamat 30hours gameplay to get 13 succes and now to finish Boons I need 80x succes... after your last update, I was embraced with hope to see some improvements in PVP and Tiamat...
...well, TR´s makes me walk away from PvP (no big deal, I can do Tiamat)
...but Tiamat is same as before,
allways when I see fellow CW in Tiamat fight use "entangling force" on Clerics phase [Censored by Author], but is that skill good for that phase or is it better stand near mobs spawn point use steal time and repell them near edge where smart GWF/GF get rid them.... but no you must stand on Clerics and draw all Aoe on it and I can do nothing because you dont read "instance chat"....
Premades on Tiamat makes it Elite -fight, but who else can complete it but those who think, have brains, has grinded somehow gear or and has knowledge(brains) use lower gear efficiently and those who understand that team advice is good to listen...
So only option left is turn your back and walk away, take few months break from game and hope that game became interesting again, [Censored by Author].
Given you can't easily do Tiamat with friends, the number of tiamats required to complete boons is irrational.
Let me anticipate the producer and dev brain:
"We want you to busy until Mod 6."
Well if the rest of the player base is like me then you failed. I got my offhand 4 days after Tiamat's release, and then basically stopped doing them when I realized how many Tiamat's were necessary for boons. You put the cost up soooo high that I wrote off the content that was supposed to keep me busy until Mod 6, and decided... it didn't exist, so now you are not actually keeping me busy at all. I voted with my feet. I put in the part about getting the offhand 4 days after the Friday of the release to indicate I can go hard when I want to, but this cost... irrational.
A dev might say:
"But you might enjoy Tiamat."
Which leads me back to:
"Can't easily grind Tiamat with your friends..."
I get the devs don't want it to be the case that you can't easily enter with your friends, but what you want and what you have implemented are two different things. You have to live in reality.Grinding without friends is just a waste of a human life. It is why I don't play single player games with grind mechanics. Grinding with friends though is a chat about the day and a shared experience. It is about the people. It is acceptable.
This^. I've got my off-hand on my currently main character and forgot about Tiamat, I won't ever do it again until I can play it with my friends. Such a waste of time to get to the instance, finish the first head phase and realize, that your instance doesn't have enough damage and you'll have to afk at the campfire for the next 12 minutes.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
The fight is already boring as ****. I have Off-Hands and Cloaks for four characters now and can't see that Dragoness any longer... And I still need the Boons...
Being upset with the situation does not absolve your responsibility to adhere to the Rules of Conduct. Post civilly and constructively or do not post. Again, the RoC is not an optional thing for you to follow if you wish to keep your posting privilege.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Btw.: I would LOVE a challenging, epic version of the HE that grants more Linus. But we know this game is RNG/repetition over skill... Funnily enough, the dev @ AMA reddit said he doesn't think endgame content is too easy given the success rate of Tiamat.
I mean... what can you say? I don't think he even adjusted for bugged instances.
Btw.: I would LOVE a challenging, epic version of the HE that grants more Linus. But we know this game is RNG/repetition over skill... Funnily enough, the dev @ AMA reddit said he doesn't think endgame content is too easy given the success rate of Tiamat.
I mean... what can you say? I don't think he even adjusted for bugged instances.
I'm not sure. I think most people here go in at set times. If you look at all the other runs that randomly get formed from people not using timers, well, there may be a large chance that those are failing.
To Crytic moderators and those higher up making decisions on changes to this game:
I understand the marketing of the Tiamat campaign and the months of work the marketing side put into it. But your departments need to communicate better and if a MOD is not working to a sufficient level, then DON'T release it until it is. Your game has been a joy to play until the recent Tiamat MOD. From the feedback from the Live Streams that were done, it is clear that certain people at Cryptic have no regard for the player base at all. The whole "deal with it" attitude given to the majority of the veteran player base who have played this game for more than 6 months, is not a good attitude to take with those players that have, and still do spend money for Zen. Getting an influx of new players for the Tiamat MOD is great for business, no doubt of that, but at the cost of what? Losing a larger percentage of your current player base because you want to appease the smaller percentage increase in players? Forcing high gear score players to group with low gear score players in order to carry them so they can get better gear is not going to help your cause any.
You say that grouping is not in the best interest of your player base, yet you want to require that people get in 5 man groups for Tiamat.
If the Cryptic team believes that a minimum gear score of 10,500 is enough to defeat Tiamat in the given time, then lets see 25 of Cryptic's people log in on a live stream with characters no higher than 11,000 gear score with no more than lesser to normal weapon and armor enchantments take on Tiamat and defeat her. If this is truly possible with a random group of classes, please show us how it is done.
I'm sure you'll agree after attempting Tiamat with a 10,500-11,000 gear score, that the gear score requirement will need to be adjusted. A rather obvious example is epic Shores of Tuern and epic Lair of Lostmauth minimum gear score requirements, 13,000. So why is Tiamat's lower?
If you want to keep the minimum gear score requirement for Tiamat, then I suggest you do the same thing you did with Shores of Tuern and Lair of Lostmauth, make a normal version for the 10,500 gear score requirement and an epic version with a 13,000 gear score requirement. I know it is a simple idea, but wouldn't it still solve alot of problems?
Great idea!!! (but each Crytic people must go Tiamat as "random player" so we can watch 25 players performance on LIVE, COOL, but they dont do that or if they dare)
To Crytic moderators and those higher up making decisions on changes to this game:
I understand the marketing of the Tiamat campaign and the months of work the marketing side put into it. But your departments need to communicate better and if a MOD is not working to a sufficient level, then DON'T release it until it is. Your game has been a joy to play until the recent Tiamat MOD. From the feedback from the Live Streams that were done, it is clear that certain people at Cryptic have no regard for the player base at all. The whole "deal with it" attitude given to the majority of the veteran player base who have played this game for more than 6 months, is not a good attitude to take with those players that have, and still do spend money for Zen. Getting an influx of new players for the Tiamat MOD is great for business, no doubt of that, but at the cost of what? Losing a larger percentage of your current player base because you want to appease the smaller percentage increase in players? Forcing high gear score players to group with low gear score players in order to carry them so they can get better gear is not going to help your cause any.
You say that grouping is not in the best interest of your player base, yet you want to require that people get in 5 man groups for Tiamat.
If the Cryptic team believes that a minimum gear score of 10,500 is enough to defeat Tiamat in the given time, then lets see 25 of Cryptic's people log in on a live stream with characters no higher than 11,000 gear score with no more than lesser to normal weapon and armor enchantments take on Tiamat and defeat her. If this is truly possible with a random group of classes, please show us how it is done.
I'm sure you'll agree after attempting Tiamat with a 10,500-11,000 gear score, that the gear score requirement will need to be adjusted. A rather obvious example is epic Shores of Tuern and epic Lair of Lostmauth minimum gear score requirements, 13,000. So why is Tiamat's lower?
If you want to keep the minimum gear score requirement for Tiamat, then I suggest you do the same thing you did with Shores of Tuern and Lair of Lostmauth, make a normal version for the 10,500 gear score requirement and an epic version with a 13,000 gear score requirement. I know it is a simple idea, but wouldn't it still solve alot of problems?
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baalhashmalMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 65Arc User
I would theory-craft that it may have something to do with business/revenue. I can think of no other reason why its built the way it is. It all appears to be motivated to bridge the gaps between new level 60 players and veterans while significantly increasing revenue through refinement.
Agreeing with this.
No queueing into the instance with a premade party? Seriously? What kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-backwards logic is that?
Okay, let me display some decorum; may I have a thorough explanation as to why the devs or whomever decided not to allow a queue system for Tiamat?
Cleric:Marquis Elmdore - Current Main Wizard: Iamblichus Fighter: Anna the Titan Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Guild: She Looked Level 18. Alliance: Imperium
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covenant92Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited December 2014
...I'm not usually one to post on the forums, but in this instance I'll make an exception.
The Tiamat Encounter itself is pretty fun, fairly challenging, and actually rewards players for trying to come up with a strategy to tackle the 5 heads. It's the type of fight I'd like to see more of in the future for other events or perhaps as a special fight for Guilds later on.
With that said, I despise Tiamat on live. Where do I start to complaint - Is it the lack of knowledge most of the players who tackle it seem to possess (No Dragon Souls equipped, never using said Dragon Souls, standing on top of the Clerics to fight, not pushing enemies off the Clerics, etc...)? How about how the favored approach, Zerging from left to right, is as much of a gamble as it is getting 25 players who know what they are doing and have the Gear Score to make it happen? Or is it that special breed of player who AFKs during each round, thus dooming the rest of the instance to fail/provoking players to leave the instance?
I don't know. Maybe Tiamat will improve over time as we've only had a little over a week of access to it.
I'm not sure. I think most people here go in at set times. If you look at all the other runs that randomly get formed from people not using timers, well, there may be a large chance that those are failing.
Yes, still tells you a lot (once again) what they consider "endgame content". It's not something challenging for the BiS/near BiS players.
And some of the failure rate even comes from not giving players the proper tools to succeed in this fight. It's like cutting both arms off a Warrior and telling people what a rough time he has beating anyone... Redonkolous...
What's next? "We don't think our endgame content is too easy looking at the numbers of players that have acquired the Black Ice Weapon and Arm Pieces so far?"
I am a long way away from the US servers, 350ms ping on average, but i manage and have great time playing Neverwinter mostly.
But between network backbone issues and client crashes that disconnect me from the game, it now really sucks when i log back in only to find i'm now in a different instance that is not WAI and I don't have a chance to jump to another instance to try and help win the battle.
If you are going to stop people changing instances please keep us in the instance we started with.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Well I held off doing Tiamat for a week or so to hopefully let things settle down. Yeah. Not happening.
I've done it 6 times now (3 times each on two different toons) and all have been fails. One was a close thing, but in one we didn't even clear the first Cleric phase.
So much dumb play. So little coordination. So many toons firing spitballs for DPS. So much AFK. It's an omnishambles.
Guess I'l keep plugging away hoping that by pure chance I end up in some instances with folk who know what they're doing. Can't say I'm impressed though, especially as it's an obligatory encounter if you want to carry on progressing.
No queueing into the instance with a premade party? Seriously? What kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-backwards logic is that?
Okay, let me display some decorum; may I have a thorough explanation as to why the devs or whomever decided not to allow a queue system for Tiamat?
So, could someone shed some light on this? Thanks.
Cleric:Marquis Elmdore - Current Main Wizard: Iamblichus Fighter: Anna the Titan Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
So, could someone shed some light on this? Thanks.
From the AMA on reddit
Right now, switching to a queue would simply introduce too many more bugs. There are ways that our queue system works that aren't flexible enough to work for the larger-than-normal Tiamat fight.
From the AMA on reddit
There are ways that our queue system works that aren't flexible enough to work for the larger-than-normal Tiamat fight.
So, it's still a Beta version of a Raid. Or Alpha version.
Imagine WoW, warlords or Raynor, the ultimate boss fight, all the elite guilds competing for a World First and... the queue system does not allow a premade group to enter.
to crytic moderators and those higher up making decisions on changes to this game:
I understand the marketing of the tiamat campaign and the months of work the marketing side put into it. But your departments need to communicate better and if a mod is not working to a sufficient level, then don't release it until it is. Your game has been a joy to play until the recent tiamat mod. From the feedback from the live streams that were done, it is clear that certain people at cryptic have no regard for the player base at all. The whole "deal with it" attitude given to the majority of the veteran player base who have played this game for more than 6 months, is not a good attitude to take with those players that have, and still do spend money for zen. Getting an influx of new players for the tiamat mod is great for business, no doubt of that, but at the cost of what? Losing a larger percentage of your current player base because you want to appease the smaller percentage increase in players? Forcing high gear score players to group with low gear score players in order to carry them so they can get better gear is not going to help your cause any.
You say that grouping is not in the best interest of your player base, yet you want to require that people get in 5 man groups for tiamat.
If the cryptic team believes that a minimum gear score of 10,500 is enough to defeat tiamat in the given time, then lets see 25 of cryptic's people log in on a live stream with characters no higher than 11,000 gear score with no more than lesser to normal weapon and armor enchantments take on tiamat and defeat her. If this is truly possible with a random group of classes, please show us how it is done.
I'm sure you'll agree after attempting tiamat with a 10,500-11,000 gear score, that the gear score requirement will need to be adjusted. A rather obvious example is epic shores of tuern and epic lair of lostmauth minimum gear score requirements, 13,000. So why is tiamat's lower?
If you want to keep the minimum gear score requirement for tiamat, then i suggest you do the same thing you did with shores of tuern and lair of lostmauth, make a normal version for the 10,500 gear score requirement and an epic version with a 13,000 gear score requirement. I know it is a simple idea, but wouldn't it still solve alot of problems?
amen.........
Ogguk The Beholder… Justicar Paladin Tank/ Healer
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dragonbs1989Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2014
in addition to the GS problem of the Temple of Tiamat, It would be great to discuss other prblem we all have: AFK Players/ Leavers
I have been in more than 5 runs that we failed for less than 10 seconds needed to kill the final head, but we had more than 3 people afking because of bad start or whatever. This is super frustrating, because it is very little effort needed to make those from lose to win, but yet those guys are just here AFKing.
I have had similar runs with leavers: we start with party of 5, yet at the end our party has 3 disconnected players and we lose by 20-10 seconds needed to finish successfully.
I know it might sound bad, but you should have some way of penalty for those people: they should be getting their next win reward as loss one or they should be prevented from doing the Temple for the next 2 hours or something like that. My suggestions might sound harsh, but it is super bad experience to look at people AFKing and lose by the last head being on 1-2% hp.
I suppose now I will get eaten by those that go afk on regular basis...
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baalhashmalMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 65Arc User
@Devs, would it be possible to make it so players in the same Well of Dragons instance enter the same Temple of Tiamat instance?
This is similar to the concept with the Trade of Blades at Protector's Enclave.
Also, a gear score requirement needs to be implemented. If not, why not?
It is incongruous that lower GS players who can't even run Tiamat content yet (Skirmish, Dungeon) are allowed to enter the Temple of Tiamat. If a gear score requirement is implemented, it would give these players more viability.
Cleric:Marquis Elmdore - Current Main Wizard: Iamblichus Fighter: Anna the Titan Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
As far as I can see there is a tendency that people try to "abuse" the current entrance system insofar that they secretly agree to a certain time in hopes of locking out lower geared players unaware of this custom.
I do see reasons why groups with mostly players around 10k gear score will have problems if the system does not balance high and low gear scores to a manageable point, but the current habit of locking out players under 20k gear score is exaggerated. (I did see a player with 16k GS asking for such a set time getting rejected for being too low (below 20k GS) and therefore not qualified for "zerg groups", is this the desired effect of this encounter?)
So in the end, it seems - thanks to the player base - this encounter has to become much easier - like many other encounters - to a point it gets boring enough that this lock-out custom is no longer desireable. In the long run, new players could get scared away due to such elitism.
There will always be elitism and there are strains of it too PVP vs PVE, 18GS VS 22kGS, 10K GS vs Everyone else. The simple fact that Tiamat doesn't Actually have a GS Requirement you have to be level 60 to enter and that is it. People left out call it elitism, people on the inside call it playing the game.
True enough; so, one way to remedy this could be to give up the raid component and to make it a five player encounter with the means to enter it with a premade group.
Every hour the chat gets flooded with peeps complaining about weaker players who dare to enter out of some reasons and peeps feeling unjustly rejected: It gets annoying and is surely no good marketing.
Even about the way how players ought to solve this encounter there is much discussion with many glorifying the favoured ways and badmouthing the other ways denying them to be called a strategy. The idea was nice but the implementation and interaction with the "community" is poor and has only furthered discord.
True enough; so, one way to remedy this could be to give up the raid component and to make it a five player encounter with the means to enter it with a premade group.
Every hour the chat gets flooded with peeps complaining about weaker players who dare to enter out of some reasons and peeps feeling unjustly rejected: It gets annoying and is surely no good marketing.
Even about the way how players ought to solve this encounter there is much discussion with many glorifying the favoured ways and badmouthing the other ways denying them to be called a strategy. The idea was nice but the implementation and interaction with the "community" is poor and has only furthered discord.
I don't think they will change from the raid component, but maybe adding an epic 5 player version on top of this could work.
At present there appear to be a number of contradictions with the Tiamat encounter, and also possibly with the WoD zone.
In a pure progression format, players would likely go ->Sharandar/Dread Ring ->Ice Wind Dale -> WoD
Now IWD does have requirements - 10k GS with a tier 3 boon from either Sharandar or DR
However, WoD is accessed purely via a 10k GS, meaning players can actually go there before IWD. Which of course some do, and included in the zone is Tiamat.
But let's focus on the zone and the impact it has had on other things. IWD is near empty as players leapfrog to WoD. Once popular dungeons are ignored.
Introducing higher requirements for the WoD - in my opinion should have been done at zone launch. XXkGS plus a certain level of progression in the IWD campaign. This would fit the vertical path zone progression.
At present WoD is a horizontal progression but with higher rewards - so people are bound to go there.
But I believe it is too late to change the zone entry level now - that opportunity has been missed. Having players half way through quests, or item farming, suddenly prevented from continuing those - cannot see it happening.
So the WoD zone is what it is - a lower entry than IWD, yet with higher level quests/quest mobs.
Now Tiamat - and what a can of worms.
Do players want a challenge in their gameplay? Well allowing premade groups of say 20k+ GS players wouldn't give you that. But maybe players now just want to walk in sure they can win - do the encounter - get reward - wait for next one - rinse & repeat.
There are many solutions to Tiamat being voiced on here. A higher GS requirement would seem to be a way forward, but then the semantics begin of what that level actually should be - and there will never be common agreement on this.
12k ? 13k ? I've read zone chat with some players quoting 14k as a minimum. But would that solve the whole issue? --- no.
20k players would still want to group with players around their GS, I've even seen group requests for 23K+ only people - definitely playing on the sure to win side here it seems.
Now, suddenly introducing a higher requirement would make some people happy, but it would also make others extremely unhappy - particularly those who where running the encounter ok, farming the favors - then stopped.
What do they do? Donate to the hoard just to see themselves barred from benefiting from the contribution reward? Can't really see that happening.
It is a shame that the Tiamat encounter couldn't scale to take into account the collective GS of the party (or use some other scaling factor)
- or could it in fact be done?
- and would the general playerbase accept that no matter what their GS was (10k-25k+), they would always be faced with a challenge?
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Comments
That's pretty disappointing. A lot of my friends and guild members are walking away from this part of the game simply because you can't get in with a group who likes to play together. I have to admit I can't really disagree with them, the fight right now is barely tolerable, and seen as a chore just to get the favors...what I think has been missed here is that people are doing it to get 15 favors for the off hand, then not bothering any more. Not because it couldn't be a good fight, but because it just isn't fun this way. I play in a very active guild that enjoys running any and all dungeons or skirmishes together in groups. This simply doesn't let us do that. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who feel the same. I'm not convinced a queue would solve it entirely but at least keeping parties together would be a big step towards what I and others found appealing about this game when we started playing it.
How about putting a GS min to get into Tiamat like 14k or something 13k n lower just do not have the dps to do any good. I see so many failing cause of this
While much has been done to improve this fight, it actually seems to be harder to win now. I've been fortunate to have a few wins so I know the fight isn't terribly hard when done right. However, since the latest update I haven't been in a winning event (yeah, I know that happens, stop whining). More disturbing though is that with one exception, the events I have been in seem to be doing even worse than before. While people no longer have the option to disappear and hop over to another instance like fleas, I see a lot of people giving up and either leaving or just trolling by the campfire waiting for the timer to count down. Most people now know whether the event they are in is going to win by the end of the first round of fighting. Let's face it, if you can't keep the defence of the clerics well-balanced and can't at least clear 2 (ideally 3) heads during the first fight, you are pretty much guaranteed a loss. Maybe if people tried really hard they could turn things aground and squeek out a win, but too many are just giving up.
Ultimately, this becomes a very frustrating waste of time for everyone involved. It is a game and while it should be challenging, it shouldn't be totally left up to chance. Put in a GS like everyone is asking for - contrary to the comment above, this doesn't mean people won't get the chance to play the event. They just need to do more work to get to the GS so they are ready for the fight. And let people join as parties at least so we can play with our friends instead of a random bunch of people we can't necessarily rely on.
Btw, is it just me or does there seem to be more monsters spawning now during the defence of the clerics? Most times the clerics seem to be overwhelmed, meaning it is taking way to long to get through that part of the event.
This can be a very fun event when things go well. But after a dozen or so straight losses, it is getting just a tad frustrating.
/rant off
In comparison to the fact that you guys are griefing us with all the bugs in game.
Lets see, the last 3 runs in a row have all bugged out.
I did my Off-Hand from Tiamat 30hours gameplay to get 13 succes and now to finish Boons I need 80x succes... after your last update, I was embraced with hope to see some improvements in PVP and Tiamat...
...well, TR´s makes me walk away from PvP (no big deal, I can do Tiamat)
...but Tiamat is same as before,
allways when I see fellow CW in Tiamat fight use "entangling force" on Clerics phase [Censored by Author], but is that skill good for that phase or is it better stand near mobs spawn point use steal time and repell them near edge where smart GWF/GF get rid them.... but no you must stand on Clerics and draw all Aoe on it and I can do nothing because you dont read "instance chat"....
Premades on Tiamat makes it Elite -fight, but who else can complete it but those who think, have brains, has grinded somehow gear or and has knowledge(brains) use lower gear efficiently and those who understand that team advice is good to listen...
So only option left is turn your back and walk away, take few months break from game and hope that game became interesting again, [Censored by Author].
Merry xmas & Happy new year
Let me anticipate the producer and dev brain:
"We want you to busy until Mod 6."
Well if the rest of the player base is like me then you failed. I got my offhand 4 days after Tiamat's release, and then basically stopped doing them when I realized how many Tiamat's were necessary for boons. You put the cost up soooo high that I wrote off the content that was supposed to keep me busy until Mod 6, and decided... it didn't exist, so now you are not actually keeping me busy at all. I voted with my feet. I put in the part about getting the offhand 4 days after the Friday of the release to indicate I can go hard when I want to, but this cost... irrational.
A dev might say:
"But you might enjoy Tiamat."
Which leads me back to:
"Can't easily grind Tiamat with your friends..."
I get the devs don't want it to be the case that you can't easily enter with your friends, but what you want and what you have implemented are two different things. You have to live in reality.Grinding without friends is just a waste of a human life. It is why I don't play single player games with grind mechanics. Grinding with friends though is a chat about the day and a shared experience. It is about the people. It is acceptable.
This^. I've got my off-hand on my currently main character and forgot about Tiamat, I won't ever do it again until I can play it with my friends. Such a waste of time to get to the instance, finish the first head phase and realize, that your instance doesn't have enough damage and you'll have to afk at the campfire for the next 12 minutes.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I mean... what can you say? I don't think he even adjusted for bugged instances.
I understand the marketing of the Tiamat campaign and the months of work the marketing side put into it. But your departments need to communicate better and if a MOD is not working to a sufficient level, then DON'T release it until it is. Your game has been a joy to play until the recent Tiamat MOD. From the feedback from the Live Streams that were done, it is clear that certain people at Cryptic have no regard for the player base at all. The whole "deal with it" attitude given to the majority of the veteran player base who have played this game for more than 6 months, is not a good attitude to take with those players that have, and still do spend money for Zen. Getting an influx of new players for the Tiamat MOD is great for business, no doubt of that, but at the cost of what? Losing a larger percentage of your current player base because you want to appease the smaller percentage increase in players? Forcing high gear score players to group with low gear score players in order to carry them so they can get better gear is not going to help your cause any.
You say that grouping is not in the best interest of your player base, yet you want to require that people get in 5 man groups for Tiamat.
If the Cryptic team believes that a minimum gear score of 10,500 is enough to defeat Tiamat in the given time, then lets see 25 of Cryptic's people log in on a live stream with characters no higher than 11,000 gear score with no more than lesser to normal weapon and armor enchantments take on Tiamat and defeat her. If this is truly possible with a random group of classes, please show us how it is done.
I'm sure you'll agree after attempting Tiamat with a 10,500-11,000 gear score, that the gear score requirement will need to be adjusted. A rather obvious example is epic Shores of Tuern and epic Lair of Lostmauth minimum gear score requirements, 13,000. So why is Tiamat's lower?
If you want to keep the minimum gear score requirement for Tiamat, then I suggest you do the same thing you did with Shores of Tuern and Lair of Lostmauth, make a normal version for the 10,500 gear score requirement and an epic version with a 13,000 gear score requirement. I know it is a simple idea, but wouldn't it still solve alot of problems?
/+10
Agreeing with this.
No queueing into the instance with a premade party? Seriously? What kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-backwards logic is that?
Okay, let me display some decorum; may I have a thorough explanation as to why the devs or whomever decided not to allow a queue system for Tiamat?
Cleric: Marquis Elmdore - Current Main
Wizard: Iamblichus
Fighter: Anna the Titan
Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja
Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia
Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Guild: She Looked Level 18.
Alliance: Imperium
The Tiamat Encounter itself is pretty fun, fairly challenging, and actually rewards players for trying to come up with a strategy to tackle the 5 heads. It's the type of fight I'd like to see more of in the future for other events or perhaps as a special fight for Guilds later on.
With that said, I despise Tiamat on live. Where do I start to complaint - Is it the lack of knowledge most of the players who tackle it seem to possess (No Dragon Souls equipped, never using said Dragon Souls, standing on top of the Clerics to fight, not pushing enemies off the Clerics, etc...)? How about how the favored approach, Zerging from left to right, is as much of a gamble as it is getting 25 players who know what they are doing and have the Gear Score to make it happen? Or is it that special breed of player who AFKs during each round, thus dooming the rest of the instance to fail/provoking players to leave the instance?
I don't know. Maybe Tiamat will improve over time as we've only had a little over a week of access to it.
Yes, still tells you a lot (once again) what they consider "endgame content". It's not something challenging for the BiS/near BiS players.
And some of the failure rate even comes from not giving players the proper tools to succeed in this fight. It's like cutting both arms off a Warrior and telling people what a rough time he has beating anyone... Redonkolous...
What's next? "We don't think our endgame content is too easy looking at the numbers of players that have acquired the Black Ice Weapon and Arm Pieces so far?"
But between network backbone issues and client crashes that disconnect me from the game, it now really sucks when i log back in only to find i'm now in a different instance that is not WAI and I don't have a chance to jump to another instance to try and help win the battle.
If you are going to stop people changing instances please keep us in the instance we started with.
THIS!!!
Sick of game crashing then returning to different instance that is failing so hard while the one I was in pwned.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I've done it 6 times now (3 times each on two different toons) and all have been fails. One was a close thing, but in one we didn't even clear the first Cleric phase.
So much dumb play. So little coordination. So many toons firing spitballs for DPS. So much AFK. It's an omnishambles.
Guess I'l keep plugging away hoping that by pure chance I end up in some instances with folk who know what they're doing. Can't say I'm impressed though, especially as it's an obligatory encounter if you want to carry on progressing.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
So, could someone shed some light on this? Thanks.
Cleric: Marquis Elmdore - Current Main
Wizard: Iamblichus
Fighter: Anna the Titan
Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja
Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia
Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Guild: She Looked Level 18.
Alliance: Imperium
From the AMA on reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/2pm9pz/sup_reddit_ryan_aka_heyrogers_here_back_for/
So, it's still a Beta version of a Raid. Or Alpha version.
Imagine WoW, warlords or Raynor, the ultimate boss fight, all the elite guilds competing for a World First and... the queue system does not allow a premade group to enter.
amen.........
AFK Players/ Leavers
I have been in more than 5 runs that we failed for less than 10 seconds needed to kill the final head, but we had more than 3 people afking because of bad start or whatever. This is super frustrating, because it is very little effort needed to make those from lose to win, but yet those guys are just here AFKing.
I have had similar runs with leavers: we start with party of 5, yet at the end our party has 3 disconnected players and we lose by 20-10 seconds needed to finish successfully.
I know it might sound bad, but you should have some way of penalty for those people: they should be getting their next win reward as loss one or they should be prevented from doing the Temple for the next 2 hours or something like that. My suggestions might sound harsh, but it is super bad experience to look at people AFKing and lose by the last head being on 1-2% hp.
I suppose now I will get eaten by those that go afk on regular basis...
Thank you very much.
@Devs, would it be possible to make it so players in the same Well of Dragons instance enter the same Temple of Tiamat instance?
This is similar to the concept with the Trade of Blades at Protector's Enclave.
Also, a gear score requirement needs to be implemented. If not, why not?
It is incongruous that lower GS players who can't even run Tiamat content yet (Skirmish, Dungeon) are allowed to enter the Temple of Tiamat. If a gear score requirement is implemented, it would give these players more viability.
Cleric: Marquis Elmdore - Current Main
Wizard: Iamblichus
Fighter: Anna the Titan
Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja
Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia
Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Guild: She Looked Level 18.
Alliance: Imperium
I do see reasons why groups with mostly players around 10k gear score will have problems if the system does not balance high and low gear scores to a manageable point, but the current habit of locking out players under 20k gear score is exaggerated. (I did see a player with 16k GS asking for such a set time getting rejected for being too low (below 20k GS) and therefore not qualified for "zerg groups", is this the desired effect of this encounter?)
So in the end, it seems - thanks to the player base - this encounter has to become much easier - like many other encounters - to a point it gets boring enough that this lock-out custom is no longer desireable. In the long run, new players could get scared away due to such elitism.
True enough; so, one way to remedy this could be to give up the raid component and to make it a five player encounter with the means to enter it with a premade group.
Every hour the chat gets flooded with peeps complaining about weaker players who dare to enter out of some reasons and peeps feeling unjustly rejected: It gets annoying and is surely no good marketing.
Even about the way how players ought to solve this encounter there is much discussion with many glorifying the favoured ways and badmouthing the other ways denying them to be called a strategy. The idea was nice but the implementation and interaction with the "community" is poor and has only furthered discord.
you are smart to have created a work of art
gtx-Titan
16gb ddr3 2200mhz
i7 4770
rampage5
Bandwith ->5mbps.
please, fix it,,
regards, elvenborg
I don't think they will change from the raid component, but maybe adding an epic 5 player version on top of this could work.
At present there appear to be a number of contradictions with the Tiamat encounter, and also possibly with the WoD zone.
In a pure progression format, players would likely go ->Sharandar/Dread Ring ->Ice Wind Dale -> WoD
Now IWD does have requirements - 10k GS with a tier 3 boon from either Sharandar or DR
However, WoD is accessed purely via a 10k GS, meaning players can actually go there before IWD. Which of course some do, and included in the zone is Tiamat.
But let's focus on the zone and the impact it has had on other things. IWD is near empty as players leapfrog to WoD. Once popular dungeons are ignored.
Introducing higher requirements for the WoD - in my opinion should have been done at zone launch. XXkGS plus a certain level of progression in the IWD campaign. This would fit the vertical path zone progression.
At present WoD is a horizontal progression but with higher rewards - so people are bound to go there.
But I believe it is too late to change the zone entry level now - that opportunity has been missed. Having players half way through quests, or item farming, suddenly prevented from continuing those - cannot see it happening.
So the WoD zone is what it is - a lower entry than IWD, yet with higher level quests/quest mobs.
Now Tiamat - and what a can of worms.
Do players want a challenge in their gameplay? Well allowing premade groups of say 20k+ GS players wouldn't give you that. But maybe players now just want to walk in sure they can win - do the encounter - get reward - wait for next one - rinse & repeat.
There are many solutions to Tiamat being voiced on here. A higher GS requirement would seem to be a way forward, but then the semantics begin of what that level actually should be - and there will never be common agreement on this.
12k ? 13k ? I've read zone chat with some players quoting 14k as a minimum. But would that solve the whole issue? --- no.
20k players would still want to group with players around their GS, I've even seen group requests for 23K+ only people - definitely playing on the sure to win side here it seems.
Now, suddenly introducing a higher requirement would make some people happy, but it would also make others extremely unhappy - particularly those who where running the encounter ok, farming the favors - then stopped.
What do they do? Donate to the hoard just to see themselves barred from benefiting from the contribution reward? Can't really see that happening.
It is a shame that the Tiamat encounter couldn't scale to take into account the collective GS of the party (or use some other scaling factor)
- or could it in fact be done?
- and would the general playerbase accept that no matter what their GS was (10k-25k+), they would always be faced with a challenge?
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............