that suggestion again.....stop trying to kill our only defensive mechanic outside of stealth. unless you truly want everyone to be a perma-stealth or 1-shotting rogue, get over it.
Your only defense? You need to think again and read my post carefuly
It's not killing it's make it balance 75% defl sev in 1 on 1 fight is not thing that can be called balance
you wanna have 75% def sev than stand in the mid of a fight
A whole lot of nonsense here. Someone else who invents TR abilities that would either take 100 feat points to come up with or are flat out impossible to achieve. This kind of BS really isn't helpful to the debate.
you don't wanna a debate
Because deep down you know about what i was saying
Your only defense? You need to think again and read my post carefuly
It's not killing it's make it balance 75% defl sev in 1 on 1 fight is not thing that can be called balance
you wanna have 75% def sev than stand in the mid of a fight
we scoundrels do stand in the middle and are subjected to focus fire. only scoundrels who invest ridiculous amounts of deflect can even surpass the 50% mark. the other 2 paths don't need deflect since they have more stealth synergy.
it's not just a few of us. every scoundrel i have seen never slots shadow strike or fights while invisible since we do better without it.
you don't see me asking for wizards/gwf's to have their procs that bypass deflect get nerfed when they can rip out half my hp bar instantly and it is extremely bs when my wizard gets 1-shot by another wizard in similar gear because he can't deflect the source hit and is finished off by the 15k damage procs.
just because you hate stealth doesn't mean you should go after everything that a rogue depends on to survive
we scoundrels do stand in the middle and are subjected to focus fire. only scoundrels who invest ridiculous amounts of deflect can even surpass the 50% mark. the other 2 paths don't need deflect since they have more stealth synergy.
it's not just a few of us. every scoundrel i have seen never slots shadow strike or fights while invisible since we do better without it.
you don't see me asking for wizards/gwf's to have their procs that bypass deflect get nerfed when they can rip out half my hp bar instantly and it is extremely bs when my wizard gets 1-shot by another wizard in similar gear because he can't deflect the source hit and is finished off by the 15k damage procs.
just because you hate stealth doesn't mean you should go after everything that a rogue depends on to survive
50% deflec change is great you know
if TR don't proc deflect then you must be fine if this being nerf right?
It's not just about damage reduce but control resist bonus
trickter rouge is dps class that can stealth but glass armor right? Now is just like dps class that can stealth and still can tank after their ambush
Again 75% deflect sev on 1 on 1 fight is not thing can be called balance
you wanna 75% defl sev? Than stand in the mid of a fight
I don't hate TR just don't like OP
In my mind TR must be some dps class that depends on crit damage and crit stat and do ambush but have thin armor
If the ambush failed TR must be running and dodge the counter attack not tank everything with 75% deflect reduce damage and control
Rise of Tiamat Preview Patch Notes NW.35.20141125a.3
Classes and Balance
Dexterity: No longer incorrectly grants too much bonus deflect to classes that are not Rogues.
Scourge Warlock
Murderous Flames: No longer incorrectly deals a small amount of damage when the Warlock has a Weapon Enchantment.
Trickster Rogue
Shadow of Demise: This feat now correctly tracks damage past the initial strike.
Twisted Grin: This feat now triggers correctly in all cases.
Whisperknife
Seething Knives: This feat now deals the correct amount of damage.
you don't wanna a debate
Because deep down you know about what i was saying
There's plenty of debate on here. And some TR stuff needs toning down, no question. But plain making stuff up or blatant misunderstanding of game mechanics such as you posted does not help. For one thing the devs are going to flat out ignore stuff which is clearly wrong like most of what you've been posting, so it doesn't even help you.
50% deflec change is great you know
if TR don't proc deflect then you must be fine if this being nerf right?
It's not just about damage reduce but control resist bonus
trickter rouge is dps class that can stealth but glass armor right? Now is just like dps class that can stealth and still can tank after their ambush
Again 75% deflect sev on 1 on 1 fight is not thing can be called balance
you wanna 75% defl sev? Than stand in the mid of a fight
I don't hate TR just don't like OP
In my mind TR must be some dps class that depends on crit damage and crit stat and do ambush but have thin armor
If the ambush failed TR must be running and dodge the counter attack not tank everything with 75% deflect reduce damage and control
Scoundrels do not use stealth as a defence. They use deflect and dodge. Typical Scoundrel deflect will be in the 35-45% range. My Scoundrel runs with 41% deflect chance after campfire bonus. With 75% deflect severity his equates to 30% DR - hardly OP for a melee class that is only ever in stealth at the very beginning of a fight. Your proposed change would kill the Scoundrel tree. Do you really want all TRs to perma-stealth?
Have you ever tried to tank something using deflect alone? It doesn't work. Because that DR is not constant, it's based on RNG. And when deflect fails - in my case 59% of the time - you get massive damage. Or if you are proned you get zero deflect. Only HRs can deflect tank because they can achieve higher deflect percentages and have healing that triggers on deflect, coupled with boosted lifesteal.
There's plenty of debate on here. And some TR stuff needs toning down, no question. But plain making stuff up or blatant misunderstanding of game mechanics such as you posted does not help. For one thing the devs are going to flat out ignore stuff which is clearly wrong like most of what you've been posting, so it doesn't even help you.
Well i just suggest thing about nerf OP TR
it's dev decision about how to nerf TR mekanic
well glad that you admit about TR being OP
Scoundrels do not use stealth as a defence. They use deflect and dodge. Typical Scoundrel deflect will be in the 35-45% range. My Scoundrel runs with 41% deflect chance after campfire bonus. With 75% deflect severity his equates to 30% DR - hardly OP for a melee class that is only ever in stealth at the very beginning of a fight. Your proposed change would kill the Scoundrel tree. Do you really want all TRs to perma-stealth?
Have you ever tried to tank something using deflect alone? It doesn't work. Because that DR is not constant, it's based on RNG. And when deflect fails - in my case 59% of the time - you get massive damage. Or if you are proned you get zero deflect. Only HRs can deflect tank because they can achieve higher deflect percentages and have healing that triggers on deflect, coupled with boosted lifesteal.
TR can get 45%++ defl change HR 50%++ with lone wolf buff but it depend with each enemy around
+5% deflect each enemy within 15 feet max 25% defl sev is not killing it iust work like defl change buff HR
HR have self heal, not perma stealth but still can stealth right? Have cc and instant burst damage with 100% crit change that can ignore crit stat and do 1 rotate kill crit burst damage
don't forget TR got long roll dodge, large area stun
TR can get 45%++ defl change HR 50%++ with lone wolf buff but it depend with each enemy around
+5% deflect each enemy within 15 feet max 25% defl sev is not killing it iust work like defl change buff HR
HR have self heal, not perma stealth but still can stealth right? Have cc and instant burst damage with 100% crit change that can ignore crit stat and do 1 rotate kill crit burst damage
Again, you don't understand that there are THREE different types of TR. Scoundrels don't ignore their crit stat at all because they are OUT OF STEALTH for 90% of the time. If you look at the stat balance of my Scoundrel it looks like an old-fashioned 'combat TR' because I can't rely on stealth for 100% crit chance or defence. On top of that we have to gear for ArPen as we don't get any from any of our stats.
The stealth TRs you hate so much don't rely on deflect and so your proposed change wouldn't hurt them AT ALL.
Really - you need to level a TR and actually learn how they work. Otherwise you are just guessing and that means you are confusing abilities from three different trees that no single TR can have at the same time.
TR can get 45%++ defl change HR 50%++ with lone wolf buff but it depend with each enemy around
+5% deflect each enemy within 15 feet max 25% defl sev is not killing it iust work like defl change buff HR
HR have self heal, not perma stealth but still can stealth right? Have cc and instant burst damage with 100% crit change that can ignore crit stat and do 1 rotate kill crit burst damage
since when did rogues have 100 feat points to invest in all 3 feat paths?
Scoundrels do not use stealth as a defence. They use deflect and dodge. Typical Scoundrel deflect will be in the 35-45% range. My Scoundrel runs with 41% deflect chance after campfire bonus. With 75% deflect severity his equates to 30% DR - hardly OP for a melee class that is only ever in stealth at the very beginning of a fight. Your proposed change would kill the Scoundrel tree. Do you really want all TRs to perma-stealth?
Have you ever tried to tank something using deflect alone? It doesn't work. Because that DR is not constant, it's based on RNG. And when deflect fails - in my case 59% of the time - you get massive damage. Or if you are proned you get zero deflect. Only HRs can deflect tank because they can achieve higher deflect percentages and have healing that triggers on deflect, coupled with boosted lifesteal.
All tr's use stealth to defend themselves. Only difference is that it can also be used to attack, sab and scoundrel are overpowered. deflection in pvp has always been arguable better than the regular 50% dr at most with protector gfs. deflection cannot be counter but dr can. that is why deflection is the **** for pvp. All tr's use stealth to defend themselves and attack, scoundrel's daze last pretty long. the dazing from stealth already gives them a huge advantage.
Can the daze duration be deflected? because i have deflected dazzing strike and CS but the duration was full.
IDK but it happens to me quite often in PvP: TRs or HRs get hit, get full damage, stop for like 0,1 seconds, then move away immediately.
Looks like they think "wtf happened? Oh nothing, let's keep going".
So you have classes you need skills and hard training to catch, and when you actually catch them it's like "ahahaha you got me. But...no.".
Funny thing, no TR ever reported something like "hey guys, i noticed stuns are not working on me. May be something is bugged".
But i'm quite sure they should've noticed how they can get free from stuns in no time.
All tr's use stealth to defend themselves. Only difference is that it can also be used to attack, sab and scoundrel are overpowered. deflection in pvp has always been arguable better than the regular 50% dr at most with protector gfs. deflection cannot be counter but dr can. that is why deflection is the **** for pvp. All tr's use stealth to defend themselves and attack, scoundrel's daze last pretty long. the dazing from stealth already gives them a huge advantage.
Can the daze duration be deflected? because i have deflected dazzing strike and CS but the duration was full.
never saw a scoundrel fight as a perma. even considering how rare they are in comparison to the other trees, not a single 1 had shadow strike slotted or stealthed mid-fight when they were dying. are you sure you aren't fighting a sab with dazing strike?
deflection is random and can not be relied on. few have above 50% deflect like i do and actually have a decent shot at not dying to a hard hit. regardless, block/unstoppable is far better than 100% deflect because they mitigate more damage than 75% deflect severity. i have tried it on multiple occasions and all that resulted is me dying trying to out-tank unstoppable with itc or doing nothing to a guardian in block. your defensive mechanics are much stronger than deflect at the cost of not having it available for a bit while ours is luck oriented.
by the way, so much damage completely bypasses deflect that a gwf in unstoppable can still out-dps me purely with their intimidation. wizards and their stormspell + assailant are no joke either since i lose half my hp every time they start attacking me. dps clerics did the same thing with fire of the gods which shocked me but it wan't instantly at the very least. fury warlocks have enough dots to not care about how much we deflect and even have a ranged prone.
if you are complaining about permas with like 25-40% deflect at best depending on stat rolls, then just stop. i have seen gwf's who had more than 40% alongside their unstoppable. yet i have to sacrifice my critical/armor pen/power/hp stats to pitiable levels to have 56% deflect.
daze is weird in comparison to other controls since it still allows people to move . i don't think the duration can be reduced by deflect and especially not with smoke bomb since that is a lingering daze area. i'm guessing the devs made daze similar to smoke bomb in that aspect. i could care less if it's changed since it won't bother me at all but at least control resist affects it for now.
Unstoppable is not better by far, at least on non-sentinel GWFs. Thanks to the nerf.
You can keep the deflect on CC if my Instigator gets 8 seconds stun on FLS. To be fair, since i don't have intimidation, nor sentinel aegis to buff unstoppable.
Daze prevents enemies to use powers. Which means they are defenseless against you. Also, you can pretty much root them/ force them to only walk (don't know the name of the power) and that power also bypasses sprint (you can't sprint at all). Considering your base movement speed exceeds that of any other class except TRs may be, even if the dazed opponent moves you still land your powers with no problem, if i'm correct. A GWF stun is mostly to land IBS cause, else, you would never, ever land a IBS on a TR or HR, for example.
Unstoppable is not better by far, at least on non-sentinel GWFs. Thanks to the nerf.
You can keep the deflect on CC if my Instigator gets 8 seconds stun on FLS. To be fair, since i don't have intimidation, nor sentinel aegis to buff unstoppable.
Daze prevents enemies to use powers. Which means they are defenseless against you. Also, you can pretty much root them/ force them to only walk (don't know the name of the power) and that power also bypasses sprint (you can't sprint at all). Considering your base movement speed exceeds that of any other class except TRs may be, even if the dazed opponent moves you still land your powers with no problem, if i'm correct. A GWF stun is mostly to land IBS cause, else, you would never, ever land a IBS on a TR or HR, for example.
i have been stunned long enough to be hit by an ibs b4 i could move. i held back on itc to verify that kind of complaint and it is very random. yeah, there are times i can get away quick enough, but i am not the type of person to risk getting hit by the full damage of ibs when i can just itc and dodge away.
and an 8 second stun would be the middle finger to other classes
edit: i am not against making controls not be reduced by deflect since well...i have itc and can dodge most anyways. if you want to advocate for that change, then don't lump the rest of our deflect dependency into it.
All tr's use stealth to defend themselves. Only difference is that it can also be used to attack, sab and scoundrel are overpowered. deflection in pvp has always been arguable better than the regular 50% dr at most with protector gfs. deflection cannot be counter but dr can. that is why deflection is the **** for pvp. All tr's use stealth to defend themselves and attack, scoundrel's daze last pretty long. the dazing from stealth already gives them a huge advantage.
Can the daze duration be deflected? because i have deflected dazzing strike and CS but the duration was full.
So you feel happy telling me how I play my TR, do you? I love the arrogance and ignorance combined in a single post. GG.
You don't play a TR. You have no idea how the class functions. I wouldn't dream of telling a GWF or GF what's wrong with their class or how they play it because I don't have experience playing those classes. But you think it's fine to tell a TR how he plays?
Again, you don't understand that there are THREE different types of TR. Scoundrels don't ignore their crit stat at all because they are OUT OF STEALTH for 90% of the time. If you look at the stat balance of my Scoundrel it looks like an old-fashioned 'combat TR' because I can't rely on stealth for 100% crit chance or defence. On top of that we have to gear for ArPen as we don't get any from any of our stats.
The stealth TRs you hate so much don't rely on deflect and so your proposed change wouldn't hurt them AT ALL.
Really - you need to level a TR and actually learn how they work. Otherwise you are just guessing and that means you are confusing abilities from three different trees that no single TR can have at the same time.
maybe scoundrels out of stealth 90% of the time but i doubt about that, but you still can use it for 1 rotate all crit damage
every class have their issue about their stat that mostly need arpen not only TR
75% deflec sev is cheese as hell with damage reduce and control resist
let's compare it with HR self healing, let me explain how this +25% deflec sev is more cheese
let's say HR take 10k damage with 4k HP with deflec 50% then you will just drop dead without even able to selfheal
let's say TR take 10k damage with 4k HP with deflec 75% then you gonna be still kicking with 1.5k HP there will be a lot of maybe rolling grab some pot, got heal by DC, pickup pot,use pot, regen, use artifact or even counter and kill your opponent
let's say HR got hit 5k damage with 30k HP when deflc wild med will return HP 2.5%*30k = 750 hp in 15s
and only can be stack max 10
let's say TR got hit 5k damage with +25% deflc sev when deflec will reduce 1250 damage instant! with no need to wait 15s no need to make hp to 30k no boundry stack just instant damage reduce and don't forget about 25% control resist that cheesey like hell
this permanent +25% defl sev is OP end of story
maybe scoundrels out of stealth 90% of the time but i doubt about that, but you still can use it for 1 rotate all crit damage
every class have their issue about their stat that mostly need arpen not only TR
75% deflec sev is cheese as hell with damage reduce and control resist
let's compare it with HR self healing, let me explain how this +25% deflec sev is more cheese
let's say HR take 10k damage with 4k HP with deflec 50% then you will just drop dead without even able to selfheal
let's say TR take 10k damage with 4k HP with deflec 75% then you gonna be still kicking with 1.5k HP there will be a lot of maybe rolling grab some pot, got heal by DC, pickup pot,use pot, or even counter and kill your opponent
let's say HR got hit 5k damage with 30k HP when deflc wild med will return HP 2.5%*30k = 750 hp in 15s
and only can be stack max 10
let's say TR got hit 5k damage with +25% deflc sev when deflec will reduce 1250 damage instant! with no need to wait 15s no need to make hp to 30k no boundry stack just instant damage reduce
this permanent +25% defl sev is OP end of story
ye you are right.
gimme hr healing and take away 25% deflect severity pls asap.
FOR THE BALANCE
let's say HR got hit 5k damage with 30k HP when deflc wild med will return HP 2.5%*30k = 750 hp in 15s
and only can be stack max 10
let's say TR got hit 5k damage with +25% deflc sev when deflec will reduce 1250 damage instant! with no need to wait 15s no need to make hp to 30k no boundry stack just instant damage reduce
this permanent +25% defl sev is OP end of story
hunters can fight from range and dodge-spam on top of it. their self-heals made them solo entire teams prior to this module.
rogues can only melee although whisperknives can currently just use a single ranged at-will to nuke people. if you can't handle sabs/executioners with 25-40% (and 40% is extremely generous since they don't stack deflect at all), then you have no reason to argue. hunters naturally beat us in the deflect chance category anyways.
if you want to nerf a rogues deflect, then every single rogue build will need far more damage as compensation and i doubt you will want that. i can already die to mobs in pve with 75% severity, 50% is impossible to work with.
maybe scoundrels out of stealth 90% of the time but i doubt about that, but you still can use it for 1 rotate all crit damage
every class have their issue about their stat that mostly need arpen not only TR
75% deflec sev is cheese as hell with damage reduce and control resist
I'm honestly not trying to offend, but you are utterly clueless about TRs.
Scoundrels don't fight in stealth because it is hugely inefficient to do so. In PvE I am typically in stealth only for the first hit.
Not all TRs can do a full rotation from stealth, because using a damaging encounter instantly breaks stealth unless you are a Sab - in which case you get one 'free' encounter every 15 seconds. As a Scoundrel I get one encounter from stealth and then stealth is gone. I could instead use maybe 3 at-wills. If I have a daily up then I can use that also without breaking stealth.
75% deflect is not 'cheese'. I demonstrated earlier that in an average case it's worth 30% DR and more than half the time it's worth nothing. The class has had this since it's creation, but suddenly it's OP? The control resist side of it doesn't seem to have much effect in PvE and again will not work at all more than half the time.
I heard some ppl didn't believe a lowbie TR is fully capable of burning a high GS player in seconds. There we go:
My 18.4k GS, 40.4k hp, 44.7% DR sentinel GWF was done in seconds: lashing blade > SoD > gloaming cut. Btw, how in the ****ing world is an at-will critting for 12k!? I want that too!
I heard some ppl didn't believe a lowbie TR is fully capable of burning a high GS player in seconds. There we go:
My 18.4k GS, 40.4k hp, 44.7% DR sentinel GWF was done in seconds: lashing blade > SoD > gloaming cut. Btw, how in the ****ing world is an at-will critting for 12k!? I want that too!
Devs, please fix TR, kthxbye
thats normal since executioners can easily have 40-50% armor pen. your defense is nonexistant to them. considering 60% damage buff + 125% crit sev + vorpal is she had it, there is no doubt that you would die from it. although it looks like you were in unstoppable/sprint at the moment you were hit.
i agree with executioners/sabs killing people in seconds due to their bursty mechanics but not for scoundrels unless it's a wizard. whether the 1-shot build is overpowered or not is something idk since they should die afterwards
I heard some ppl didn't believe a lowbie TR is fully capable of burning a high GS player in seconds. There we go:
My 18.4k GS, 40.4k hp, 44.7% DR sentinel GWF was done in seconds: lashing blade > SoD > gloaming cut. Btw, how in the ****ing world is an at-will critting for 12k!? I want that too!
Devs, please fix TR, kthxbye
The pug TRs in this thread will still defend this. You know... its so much balanced... do deal 12k piercing dmg... after a 40k oneshot...
The bad TRs here try to maintain this imbalanced status as long as possible with their nonesense feedback.
They STILL complain about HR dodges, which is so LOL! The immunity frames of TRs right now are double the times of an HR for example.
And my TR can dodge 5 consecutive times. haha!
haha so many things make tr's overpowered. but hr's and their 4times proc for careful attack and lifesteal+deflection+immunity frames from encounters is still up there. If nerfs do come they need to be test for a long time to make sure the classes arent nerfed to uselessness
I heard some ppl didn't believe a lowbie TR is fully capable of burning a high GS player in seconds. There we go:
My 18.4k GS, 40.4k hp, 44.7% DR sentinel GWF was done in seconds: lashing blade > SoD > gloaming cut. Btw, how in the ****ing world is an at-will critting for 12k!? I want that too!
Devs, please fix TR, kthxbye
There was a GF with plague fire next to you, so tell me, what buffs had tr? what debuffs except PF were on you? Yes, the damage this TR made is pretty high considering his GS, but we dont know exact situation. I can do 200k lashing on dragons, but not when im fighting them alone
P.S. and i like the way you called TR 'lowbie' when you are just like 1,5k gs above him, considering that you are gwf and he is tr
There was a GF with plague fire next to you, so tell me, what buffs had tr? what debuffs except PF were on you? Yes, the damage this TR made is pretty high considering his GS, but we dont know exact situation. I can do 200k lashing on dragons, but not when im fighting them alone
What I can tell you is he didn't pot. And I might have had GFs mark on me at that time. But wouldn't bet my life on that as it was a rather low gear pug team.
What I can tell you is he didn't pot. And I might have had GFs mark on me at that time. But wouldn't bet my life on that as it was a rather low gear pug team.
You got it in log, Thoradin Stoneheart, just above marked logs: he is gf, he got pf, so the debuff was on you, add mark and here you go. Difference in gear is not as high to not count this as a 50:50 duel, but you were debuffed. I know that TR's can dish a lot of damage i play once since beta, play everyday almost all pvp. But i fought today a almost BiS gwf (im 18k tr) and it was equal. If i made a mistake i died, if he made a mistake he died. Devs will not nerf whole class just because people are posting screens without any valid information, and im sorry, but this screen is showing nothing. Its just damage log without showing any buffs/debuffs and those can even double the damage. And this TR not perma: 12 INT/400 recovery - glass cannon. After this rotation you can consider him dead.
Comments
Your only defense? You need to think again and read my post carefuly
It's not killing it's make it balance 75% defl sev in 1 on 1 fight is not thing that can be called balance
you wanna have 75% def sev than stand in the mid of a fight
you don't wanna a debate
Because deep down you know about what i was saying
we scoundrels do stand in the middle and are subjected to focus fire. only scoundrels who invest ridiculous amounts of deflect can even surpass the 50% mark. the other 2 paths don't need deflect since they have more stealth synergy.
it's not just a few of us. every scoundrel i have seen never slots shadow strike or fights while invisible since we do better without it.
you don't see me asking for wizards/gwf's to have their procs that bypass deflect get nerfed when they can rip out half my hp bar instantly and it is extremely bs when my wizard gets 1-shot by another wizard in similar gear because he can't deflect the source hit and is finished off by the 15k damage procs.
just because you hate stealth doesn't mean you should go after everything that a rogue depends on to survive
50% deflec change is great you know
if TR don't proc deflect then you must be fine if this being nerf right?
It's not just about damage reduce but control resist bonus
trickter rouge is dps class that can stealth but glass armor right? Now is just like dps class that can stealth and still can tank after their ambush
Again 75% deflect sev on 1 on 1 fight is not thing can be called balance
you wanna 75% defl sev? Than stand in the mid of a fight
I don't hate TR just don't like OP
In my mind TR must be some dps class that depends on crit damage and crit stat and do ambush but have thin armor
If the ambush failed TR must be running and dodge the counter attack not tank everything with 75% deflect reduce damage and control
Classes and Balance
Dexterity: No longer incorrectly grants too much bonus deflect to classes that are not Rogues.
Scourge Warlock
Murderous Flames: No longer incorrectly deals a small amount of damage when the Warlock has a Weapon Enchantment.
Trickster Rogue
Shadow of Demise: This feat now correctly tracks damage past the initial strike.
Twisted Grin: This feat now triggers correctly in all cases.
Whisperknife
Seething Knives: This feat now deals the correct amount of damage.
Good luck Neverwinter
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Have you ever tried to tank something using deflect alone? It doesn't work. Because that DR is not constant, it's based on RNG. And when deflect fails - in my case 59% of the time - you get massive damage. Or if you are proned you get zero deflect. Only HRs can deflect tank because they can achieve higher deflect percentages and have healing that triggers on deflect, coupled with boosted lifesteal.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Well i just suggest thing about nerf OP TR
it's dev decision about how to nerf TR mekanic
well glad that you admit about TR being OP
TR can get 45%++ defl change HR 50%++ with lone wolf buff but it depend with each enemy around
+5% deflect each enemy within 15 feet max 25% defl sev is not killing it iust work like defl change buff HR
HR have self heal, not perma stealth but still can stealth right? Have cc and instant burst damage with 100% crit change that can ignore crit stat and do 1 rotate kill crit burst damage
don't forget TR got long roll dodge, large area stun
The stealth TRs you hate so much don't rely on deflect and so your proposed change wouldn't hurt them AT ALL.
Really - you need to level a TR and actually learn how they work. Otherwise you are just guessing and that means you are confusing abilities from three different trees that no single TR can have at the same time.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
since when did rogues have 100 feat points to invest in all 3 feat paths?
All tr's use stealth to defend themselves. Only difference is that it can also be used to attack, sab and scoundrel are overpowered. deflection in pvp has always been arguable better than the regular 50% dr at most with protector gfs. deflection cannot be counter but dr can. that is why deflection is the **** for pvp. All tr's use stealth to defend themselves and attack, scoundrel's daze last pretty long. the dazing from stealth already gives them a huge advantage.
Can the daze duration be deflected? because i have deflected dazzing strike and CS but the duration was full.
Looks like they think "wtf happened? Oh nothing, let's keep going".
So you have classes you need skills and hard training to catch, and when you actually catch them it's like "ahahaha you got me. But...no.".
Funny thing, no TR ever reported something like "hey guys, i noticed stuns are not working on me. May be something is bugged".
But i'm quite sure they should've noticed how they can get free from stuns in no time.
never saw a scoundrel fight as a perma. even considering how rare they are in comparison to the other trees, not a single 1 had shadow strike slotted or stealthed mid-fight when they were dying. are you sure you aren't fighting a sab with dazing strike?
deflection is random and can not be relied on. few have above 50% deflect like i do and actually have a decent shot at not dying to a hard hit. regardless, block/unstoppable is far better than 100% deflect because they mitigate more damage than 75% deflect severity. i have tried it on multiple occasions and all that resulted is me dying trying to out-tank unstoppable with itc or doing nothing to a guardian in block. your defensive mechanics are much stronger than deflect at the cost of not having it available for a bit while ours is luck oriented.
by the way, so much damage completely bypasses deflect that a gwf in unstoppable can still out-dps me purely with their intimidation. wizards and their stormspell + assailant are no joke either since i lose half my hp every time they start attacking me. dps clerics did the same thing with fire of the gods which shocked me but it wan't instantly at the very least. fury warlocks have enough dots to not care about how much we deflect and even have a ranged prone.
if you are complaining about permas with like 25-40% deflect at best depending on stat rolls, then just stop. i have seen gwf's who had more than 40% alongside their unstoppable. yet i have to sacrifice my critical/armor pen/power/hp stats to pitiable levels to have 56% deflect.
daze is weird in comparison to other controls since it still allows people to move . i don't think the duration can be reduced by deflect and especially not with smoke bomb since that is a lingering daze area. i'm guessing the devs made daze similar to smoke bomb in that aspect. i could care less if it's changed since it won't bother me at all but at least control resist affects it for now.
You can keep the deflect on CC if my Instigator gets 8 seconds stun on FLS. To be fair, since i don't have intimidation, nor sentinel aegis to buff unstoppable.
Daze prevents enemies to use powers. Which means they are defenseless against you. Also, you can pretty much root them/ force them to only walk (don't know the name of the power) and that power also bypasses sprint (you can't sprint at all). Considering your base movement speed exceeds that of any other class except TRs may be, even if the dazed opponent moves you still land your powers with no problem, if i'm correct. A GWF stun is mostly to land IBS cause, else, you would never, ever land a IBS on a TR or HR, for example.
i have been stunned long enough to be hit by an ibs b4 i could move. i held back on itc to verify that kind of complaint and it is very random. yeah, there are times i can get away quick enough, but i am not the type of person to risk getting hit by the full damage of ibs when i can just itc and dodge away.
and an 8 second stun would be the middle finger to other classes
edit: i am not against making controls not be reduced by deflect since well...i have itc and can dodge most anyways. if you want to advocate for that change, then don't lump the rest of our deflect dependency into it.
You don't play a TR. You have no idea how the class functions. I wouldn't dream of telling a GWF or GF what's wrong with their class or how they play it because I don't have experience playing those classes. But you think it's fine to tell a TR how he plays?
Deary me.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
maybe scoundrels out of stealth 90% of the time but i doubt about that, but you still can use it for 1 rotate all crit damage
every class have their issue about their stat that mostly need arpen not only TR
75% deflec sev is cheese as hell with damage reduce and control resist
let's compare it with HR self healing, let me explain how this +25% deflec sev is more cheese
let's say HR take 10k damage with 4k HP with deflec 50% then you will just drop dead without even able to selfheal
let's say TR take 10k damage with 4k HP with deflec 75% then you gonna be still kicking with 1.5k HP there will be a lot of maybe rolling grab some pot, got heal by DC, pickup pot,use pot, regen, use artifact or even counter and kill your opponent
let's say HR got hit 5k damage with 30k HP when deflc wild med will return HP 2.5%*30k = 750 hp in 15s
and only can be stack max 10
let's say TR got hit 5k damage with +25% deflc sev when deflec will reduce 1250 damage instant! with no need to wait 15s no need to make hp to 30k no boundry stack just instant damage reduce and don't forget about 25% control resist that cheesey like hell
this permanent +25% defl sev is OP end of story
ye you are right.
gimme hr healing and take away 25% deflect severity pls asap.
FOR THE BALANCE
hunters can fight from range and dodge-spam on top of it. their self-heals made them solo entire teams prior to this module.
rogues can only melee although whisperknives can currently just use a single ranged at-will to nuke people. if you can't handle sabs/executioners with 25-40% (and 40% is extremely generous since they don't stack deflect at all), then you have no reason to argue. hunters naturally beat us in the deflect chance category anyways.
if you want to nerf a rogues deflect, then every single rogue build will need far more damage as compensation and i doubt you will want that. i can already die to mobs in pve with 75% severity, 50% is impossible to work with.
Scoundrels don't fight in stealth because it is hugely inefficient to do so. In PvE I am typically in stealth only for the first hit.
Not all TRs can do a full rotation from stealth, because using a damaging encounter instantly breaks stealth unless you are a Sab - in which case you get one 'free' encounter every 15 seconds. As a Scoundrel I get one encounter from stealth and then stealth is gone. I could instead use maybe 3 at-wills. If I have a daily up then I can use that also without breaking stealth.
75% deflect is not 'cheese'. I demonstrated earlier that in an average case it's worth 30% DR and more than half the time it's worth nothing. The class has had this since it's creation, but suddenly it's OP? The control resist side of it doesn't seem to have much effect in PvE and again will not work at all more than half the time.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
My 18.4k GS, 40.4k hp, 44.7% DR sentinel GWF was done in seconds: lashing blade > SoD > gloaming cut. Btw, how in the ****ing world is an at-will critting for 12k!? I want that too!
Devs, please fix TR, kthxbye
thats normal since executioners can easily have 40-50% armor pen. your defense is nonexistant to them. considering 60% damage buff + 125% crit sev + vorpal is she had it, there is no doubt that you would die from it. although it looks like you were in unstoppable/sprint at the moment you were hit.
i agree with executioners/sabs killing people in seconds due to their bursty mechanics but not for scoundrels unless it's a wizard. whether the 1-shot build is overpowered or not is something idk since they should die afterwards
The pug TRs in this thread will still defend this. You know... its so much balanced... do deal 12k piercing dmg... after a 40k oneshot...
The bad TRs here try to maintain this imbalanced status as long as possible with their nonesense feedback.
They STILL complain about HR dodges, which is so LOL! The immunity frames of TRs right now are double the times of an HR for example.
And my TR can dodge 5 consecutive times. haha!
There was a GF with plague fire next to you, so tell me, what buffs had tr? what debuffs except PF were on you? Yes, the damage this TR made is pretty high considering his GS, but we dont know exact situation. I can do 200k lashing on dragons, but not when im fighting them alone
P.S. and i like the way you called TR 'lowbie' when you are just like 1,5k gs above him, considering that you are gwf and he is tr
What I can tell you is he didn't pot. And I might have had GFs mark on me at that time. But wouldn't bet my life on that as it was a rather low gear pug team.