At-Wills in Mod5

nwnghost

Now that everyone had some time to play around with the mod5 TR, what are your opinions on how the at-wills compare with each other?

I think in-stealth, Gloaming Cut and Disheartening Strike might be quite good and maybe Sly Flourish, out of stealth it seems a bit of a toss up between Sly Flourish and Duelist's Flurry now, but I haven't run ACT, just based on general clear speed of (solo) content, since I haven't been doing any dungeons since mod5.

Do say if you are talking about PvP or PvE, but my interest is in PvE

godlysoul2

For PvE in the past it has always been sky flourish for most solo content and duelist fury for anything that might be a bit tankier. I see no reason for that to change now. The only difference is now DF is a bit faster with a bit less damage, so it can probably be used in slightly more situations now. It is situational though, and would also depend on how well your offensive stats/feats are (with lower offensive capability I'd lean towards DF a bit more). This is just my opinion though.

nwnghost

DF does a lot less damage though with Feats no longer benefiting it.
Sly Flourish has been buffed a fair amount (15%, even old scoundrel was 10%) and also increases damage taken, so I wasn't sure how they stack up now vs tankier targets

sprawlfx

PvE here, Sly Flourish and Cloud of Steel. I got the Duelist's Flurry artifact weapon today. I won't be using it. =(

godlysoul2

nwnghost wrote: »

DF does a lot less damage though with Feats no longer benefiting it.
Sly Flourish has been buffed a fair amount (15%, even old scoundrel was 10%) and also increases damage taken, so I wasn't sure how they stack up now vs tankier targets

Ah ok, I forgot about the dmg boost to it but I knew about the armor break on the last hit. Still though, the bleed seems to really make it when compared to SF as far as long term damage. From my experience though, I still just keep DF over SF, but I also use GC, so if I just need a quick/faster hit to kill, I'll just use GC, especially since it can save/build my stealth, otherwise I'll go with DF.

I cant really compare it anymore though because for me I've been running sabo now, so when I can DF from stealth it procs my extra weapon damage feat a ton (possibly a bugged amount with how it registers stealth drain by its hits and possibly by just how much damage it adds?) so it makes it no contest for me really. I also gain stealth more often though too making this an option rather than simply looking at the no stealth approach.

Then again, I am much more PvP based, but I like it enough to use it for PvE as well, compared to before when I would previously slot different at wills for PvE vs PvP solo content.

I'd listen to the other peoples opinions more though, as I am sure a lot of them have much more PvE experience than me. I just wanted to share my perspective based on my previous PvE experience, but I am becoming far too outdated in the PvE department to give any relevant advice regarding it aside from what I like using to run dailies.

mojorat

I find which at wills to use depends alot on what your doing. People make broad statements about df without looking at the big picture.

Df is our hardest hitting at will if your not in stealth. This makes it a good option for scoundtels in pve. Two of their feats give it +50% damage.

For pve though I use SF as it works better for mobile playstyle.

ikapamk

PvE MI Sco here. SF and CoS for me. DF hits still too slowly for my liking. So, I'll stick to something that still hits reliably and that now debuffs DR, too.

twilightwatchman

PvE WK Scoundrel. I use SF and DHS for general content, and swap SF for DF when fighting Dragons or similar. Scoundrel is a mobile style and DF roots you too much for my liking.

kweassa

nwnghost wrote: »

DF does a lot less damage though with Feats no longer benefiting it.
Sly Flourish has been buffed a fair amount (15%, even old scoundrel was 10%) and also increases damage taken, so I wasn't sure how they stack up now vs tankier targets

You're joking, right?

DF does crazy nauseating amounts of damage, and currently it allows TRs to outdamage even CWs or SWs easily.

OK, granted, its not DF itself, but rather its the (again, even in PvE) WK/Sab build.

I am now going to disclose an attack sequence which will shoot you straight up to the top in both damage and killing power in PvE, which will prove the WK/Sab is broken even in PvE. Currently no other TR build comes close to the WK/Sab in terms of pure dominating power.



1. Using DF in stealth

We all know stealth depletion is in place, and in it shaves of 15% from stealth. A bit more less known fact is that during some point the devs have "rememdied" the hardships of stealth management a bit by making this "15% depletion" based upon the base stealth duration, not the total duration. What this means, is each at-will use will drain 15% of the default 6 seconds of stealth meter. In time units, 1 at-will attack drains 0.9 seconds of stealth.

Now, with Improved Cunning Sneak and PvP gear, stealth duration is increased by 50% (20% ICS + 30% PvP gear) -- with this setup, our maximum stealth duration is 9 seconds. That equates to 10 strikes from at-wills worth of stealth. Ofcourse, in reality, repeated attacks spend time to cast by itself... but still, what this means is that when you stealth at the right moment with DF -- just when the first of the flurry attacks(DF's 3rd attack) are landing -- you can get most of the flurry attacks to land in stealth.

So, add in 7~8 attacks of the flurry part which is boosted around 15~20% damage from combat advantage, and it all hits as crit with a 140% crit severity(2.4 times the original damage) from natural(75%) + P.Vorpal(50%) + Arterial Cut(Exec T1 feat, 15%), and additional bleeds will happen as well.

But it gets better.

All of those stealth-flurries will be boosted with Shadowy Opportunity. Yes, this is the source of crazy damage.

Now, some of us will think, "Sure, that's strong damage, but hardly special. It's used once every time stealth meter is ready". But wait -- here comes the good part:



2. Using DF in stealth as a WK/Sab

Your choice of powers:

* LB / SB / Wicked Reminder + DF / DHS
* Tactics / Dagger Threat


(1) You're behind the boss. Your WR is a 3-charge encounter with low recharge

(2) Hit WR from back -- Return to Shadows.
■ There's a bug with WR, and it DOUBLE HITS = INSTANT 100% STEALTH

(3) DF 1, 2, stealth-flurry

(4) WR, stealth refill

(5) DF 1, 2, stealth-flurry

(6) WR, stealth refull

(7) DF 1, 2, stealth-flurry

...repeat.

* Apply LB and Smokebomb every time it becomes ready.
* Ofcourse, apply the mighty stealthed BB everytime it becomes ready as well


TL;DR Version:

Wicked Reminder has a bug that double hits. So, every WR used from the backside of a boss mob will instantly refill your stealth. So, every time you use DF, you can stealth with the 3rd flurry strikes. Almost ALL of these flurry strikes will land as stealthed, and every single one of them will be auto-crit, and every single one of them procs Shadowy Opportunity.

By using Wicked Reminder every time after you finish DF, you can stealth with the flurry part of EVERY NEXT DF you use, hitting with massive damage flurries that proc bleeds Shadowy Opp. on every strike

Once you have this down, not even the CW or the SW can match your DPS -- and this is with only 6k power with a PvP setup. A higher powered PvE TR setup using this method is going to be outdamage everyone else in single-target, the only chance of being outdamaged by someone else will happen if you manage the trash-mob spawns wrong and therefore, lose out a lot in these phases.

Now, even if the WR bug is fixed, it's simply 2 WR uses to fill stealth. Every DF spends around 3 secs, and that recharges 1 WR. So, even if the bug is fixed, you will be able to use stealth-flurries with just small pauses until WR is recharged.


This makes the WK/Sab currently a King of both PvP and PvE. This is the "Best in Buid" for any TR currently.

jnmlvn

Hmm... interesting... it mentions you need at least 6K Power? I'm a weakling and only up to 3.3k with a G. Vorp so far... does this tactic still work with that kind of setup?

kweassa

jnmlvn wrote: »

Hmm... interesting... it mentions you need at least 6K Power? I'm a weakling and only up to 3.3k with a G. Vorp so far... does this tactic still work with that kind of setup?

Power level and such don't effect this at all.

It's crazy amount of DPS coming from the Saboteuer combat mechanic itself, so all you need is;

(a) Saboteuer feats
(b) Duelist's Flurry
(c) Wicked Reminder.

Optionally, a WK/Sab recommended over a MI/Sab.

When mastered, I guarantee you're gonna out-DPS everyone of your peer (ie. similar level/gs/power range) you play with in PvE.

I'll see if I can put up some training vids on how the mechanic works.

twilightwatchman

jnmlvn wrote: »

Hmm... interesting... it mentions you need at least 6K Power? I'm a weakling and only up to 3.3k with a G. Vorp so far... does this tactic still work with that kind of setup?

I run a Scoundrel with around 5k power. I have a Lesser Vorpal, the T1 Exe feat, and the Erynyes companion to boost crit severity. Bear in mind as a Scoundrel I don't have Shadowy Opportunity boosting my DPS with unresistable damage procs and I don't regenerate stealth easily.

Using the technique described by kweassa but substituting in SS for stealth regen I can still generate huge DPS on large static targets like Dragons. A properly built Sab will do significantly more.

blazious11

I use now the Draconic set, the Red gylphs with Duelist flurry also adds a lot of Damage. I guess when Drow equipment comes out with overload slots, it will be a must have. And there will be more crying for TR in PVP.

For PVE I use Duelist's flurry, and GC/DS paragon at-wills. I'm not sure for pve yet, I like Gloamig, but WK dagger threat feat seems to work also well. I just miss the +15% movement from MI passive, so I'm undecided yet for the Paragon path in mod5.

myowmyow

sprawlfx wrote: »

PvE here, Sly Flourish and Cloud of Steel. I got the Duelist's Flurry artifact weapon today. I won't be using it. =(

I have always preferred these good old basic at-will attacks, too!

twilightwatchman

myowmyow wrote: »

I have always preferred these good old basic at-will attacks, too!

I prefer DHS to CoS because you can just throw DHS and move on. With CoS you really need to stand still and land a bunch of daggers to be effective.