Vague tool-tips and lack of numbers

zamaje

So what is the deal with tool-tips using vague words like "chance of" or "will increase" without any numbers?

Is this a normal thing for games to do? Not provide the players with information so that they can build their characters optimally? I understand that proc rates float around due to ACT parsing but still. That information is found by players, not made available by the devs.

I understand the need to hide drop rates for loot tables because that would deter so many people from the game. Imagine seeing the actual drop rates for things in this game. If you saw you would probably prefer playing the lottery.

In any event, it seems wrong to do the players this disservice of not giving players information about their characters.

rayrdan

they are getting better tho, feats now almost always shows % chance and internal cooldown.
about boons...well you will know after testing and this sucks.

zamaje

Yes, I will give them credit that they have what seems like half of the information there. I just wonder about the other half though.

borrowedtime1

zamaje wrote: »

So what is the deal with tool-tips using vague words like "chance of" or "will increase" without any numbers?

Is this a normal thing for games to do? Not provide the players with information so that they can build their characters optimally? I understand that proc rates float around due to ACT parsing but still. That information is found by players, not made available by the devs.

I understand the need to hide drop rates for loot tables because that would deter so many people from the game. Imagine seeing the actual drop rates for things in this game. If you saw you would probably prefer playing the lottery.

In any event, it seems wrong to do the players this disservice of not giving players information about their characters.

+1
Same problem here.
Totally agreed.

Many of my posts are based on this issue:
- Lack of Tooltip
- Unmentioned Cap of 3 on Identical Profession Tasks?
- Does using 1 Encounter/Daily Power fully spend Stealth Meter?

loboguild

Just curious: Is this actually a thing to encourage theory-crafting and testing or do other games handle it differently? I feel there would be still a lot to test even if we'd know all the numbers. So I don't get the point other than "hey we're lazy and/or don't care".

Same goes for some ninja ICD changes. I mean, c'mon, we'll find out anyway. So why postpone the ****storm by like an hour or so? That's close to anxiety disorder.

two30

loboguild wrote: »

Just curious: Is this actually a thing to encourage theory-crafting and testing or do other games handle it differently? I feel there would be still a lot to test even if we'd know all the numbers. So I don't get the point other than "hey we're lazy and/or don't care".

It discourages theory-crafting. The most discussed and mathematically-analyzed games are ones with known rules. You can write books and books and books about chess and poker because the rules are known.

If you have to retest every black box in this game after every patch, then building a mathematical model is Sisyphean.

It's unfortunate that the developers are so indifferent to providing players with accurate information. They don't understand that an informed player-base has more to talk about and thus has a bigger online presence. Currently, their approach is to bribe players into joining their Twitter/Youtube/Twitch/Facebook channels. If they gave us better documentation, the web community would emerge naturally.

oldbaldyone

Accurate and available information means they have to be accountable for things not working right. If they hide the specifics they can just say things are working as intended and wash their hands.

The funny thing is..this is based on pen and paper dnd. In pen and paper you have to know everything about your abilities...here the specifics are hidden. They are getting better I guess though.

mutantdemocracy

Due to poor wording, lack of information, and misinformation, it's really hard to tell what stuff works, what stuff works as intended, and what stuff isn't worth looking at.

What's amazing is the number of feats that are 100% useless, yet never get balanced to be at least a viable option(Most Heroic feats).

Unknown

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loboguild

Can't they just put an intern on updating the tooltips? Sometimes I don't get what's a effing hard to in getting a 10-minute job done. Same with the artificial caps on currencies...

chaostheoryseven

The lack of specifics in tooltips had hit me right in the face the very first day I started playing back in the beta, I assumed it was halfassed since it was a beta and would improve over time, but that hasn't really happened, like at all.

It's even more annoying when you used to play something like dota2, where the tooltips are so luxuriously detailed in all aspects that in 99% of cases you know exactly what a power is gonna do even before you use it for the first time, with accurate descriptions of all secondary effects and whatnot.

That's where the devs should draw inspiration.

chemboy613

Many times when they give you numbers, the tool tips are vauge, misleading, or just completely wrong.

This is why we study things. Please see the compendium in my signature for some of those studies.

eldarth

loboguild wrote: »

Can't they just put an intern on updating the tooltips? Sometimes I don't get what's a effing hard to in getting a 10-minute job done. Same with the artificial caps on currencies...

Amazing isn't it? There are (still) hundreds of "effects" in the Foundry that are (we're led to believe) 1'x1'x1' in size....like the Sphere of Annihilation you may have seen in the Dread Ring area. After nearly 2 years they seem to have managed to at least get (most) of the detail objects accurate measurements.

rashylewizz

I agree. I would like to have the option to see actual numbers instead of vague adjectives.

Also, please state specific ICDs.

borrowedtime1

I'd suggest:

1.) a platform where players can help update all Tooltips & Descriptions in game, where it will then get voted
2.) certain amount of vote bump it to Dev for review & release during next Patching

zamaje

chaostheoryseven wrote: »

It's even more annoying when you used to play something like dota2, where the tooltips are so luxuriously detailed in all aspects that in 99% of cases you know exactly what a power is gonna do even before you use it for the first time, with accurate descriptions of all secondary effects and whatnot.

That's where the devs should draw inspiration.

And see, that's what I thought too. I thought I was just spoiled by League of Legend's tool-tips and ability descriptions. Reading further along in the thread, I agree with one of the posters. Have a sort of method to allowing players to fill in tool-tips with already found data if they don't want to spend time on doing it themselves. Then it can be voted on which tool-tip would be most accurate.

Or just fill them in themselves. How difficult can it be? They already have the tool-tip text code. Just look up the number value in the code and copy and paste it into the tool-tip.