In other words, the bar you've set is "something better". That's pretty vague. That's also not remotely "everything will be just fine in another month" unless by just fine you mean slightly improved but some number lower than 10 million so you can say "see, it's fine!".
And yes, I implied that this economy magically fixing itself is the stuff of fairy tales. Because it is. Because inflation exists in all MMOs where currency comes into being on its own every day. And because only one of the currencies is being allowed to inflate. And because since that's the case, the value of Zen (i.e. the value of real $) when measured by the purchasing power it has when converted to AD to buy AH items is, and will continue to be, in a constant decline.
By what date will Zen by selling under 500 AD?
STO's version of the ZAX pretty much proves you wrong. Same system, no backlog not pegged at the cap. It doesn't have to be broken. It's people defending inflation that are the problem.
In other words, the bar you've set is "something better". That's pretty vague. That's also not remotely "everything will be just fine in another month" unless by just fine you mean slightly improved but some number lower than 10 million so you can say "see, it's fine!".
And yes, I implied that this economy magically fixing itself is the stuff of fairy tales. Because it is. Because inflation exists in all MMOs where currency comes into being on its own every day. And because only one of the currencies is being allowed to inflate. And because since that's the case, the value of Zen (i.e. the value of real $) when measured by the purchasing power it has when converted to AD to buy AH items is, and will continue to be, in a constant decline.
By what date will Zen by selling under 500 AD?
I'm not a seer so obviously I can't give an exact date, but the drop of over 4M looks very promising to me. There is nothing "magical" about it. When folks can pull AD out of thin air (Caturday, Astralday) it creates problems. Fortunately these problems tend to fix themselves over time because unlike a real economy people quit playing and their assets ROT. Otherwise you would still have tons and tons of cats on sale on the AH for practically nothing (caturday). Likewise you no longer see enchants selling at crazy prices because the folks that were buying them all up aren't getting them for free anymore.
The only other MMO I've played with any kind of large playerbase was SWTOR, and that economy most certainly did NOT suffer from runaway inflation. But this is kinda like apples and oranges, because SWTOR had a subscriber base and no such thing as the ZAX, and a couple of other major mechanics differences from NWO.
And if we take it one step further in the analysis, you can't really point to any other MMO as an example for this game, because NWO is unique. Saying that rampant inflation in NWO is inevitable because of what happens in WOW or some other title is not a valid statement. This game economy is not going to be typical.
And as far as using the words "evade", "exploit", "scammers", etc.: sorry if that hits close to home for you (if indeed it does). I am not trying to insult anyone, I am trying to paint the picture of what is obvious to anyone without a dog in this fight: the ZAX loop is not helping.
When it is better to EVADE the exchange in order to BYPASS the 500:1 cap in order to make more AD for your Zen at the AH, and you purposefully do this to make a profit, it looks a lot like an EXPLOIT. A few pages back, I referred to anyone who still uses the ZAX to get AD for Zen as "rubes". As in the "you don't realize that you are getting taken advantage of" kind of "rubes".
Please note that I am not claiming that loopers are cheating with 3rd party software, or even violating the TOS (kinda a gray area, but whatever). The devs have left the loophole open, and I am one of the ones who thinks it should get closed. It should not be mechanically possible to relentlessly and consistently turn a profit by skipping past purposefully designed caps in the ZAX. That is a design flaw, IMO. That is not a player cheating so much as taking obvious advantage of an developer oversight.
Alright, try it this way:
I have played SWTOR, saying there is no inflation in that currency is a flat out misrepresentation of fact...and that's putting it about as nicely as I possibly can.
The fact that NWO is not another MMO in no ways means what happens in them is not relevant here. NWO is not some special little snowflake of an MMO in that its economy will not respond as others do. That's ridiculous. Explain how NWOs economic model is somehow different from other MMO economies where wealth enters the game out of nowhere. There will always be more AD tomorrow than there is today, that's inflation amigo. That's not new, revolutionary, controversial, or really even contestable. It's a fact.
I have sold Zenstore items in the AH because I find $20/million AD to be abusively expensive and I'm not going to pay it. That paradigm will be even worse as time goes on and inflation continues while Zen is locked on the exchange. That's not to make a profit, that's to get me AD to spend on the AH that sends AD to another player.
It's not even a little gray, so not "whatever". Unbound Zenstore items can be sold on the AH; working as intended. As in not gray, not shady, not iffy.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it shady.
The problem is not going to go away as long as the exchange rate is locked
Yes the problem will go away if by problem you mean the zax backlog , the backlog was growing on a daily basis until the day the astral resonator exploit was fixed then the backlog mysteriously stopped rising and started to fall and has continued to fall ever since and in all likelihood will continue to fall below 500/1 , inflation only exists in neverwinter due to a currency exploit that was not cleaned up properly , before the resonator exploit the game never suffered a backlog or 500/1 exchange rate apart from during a module launch and a week or 2 after and once the spare exploited AD has been washed through the system we will be back to how the exchange was up until just after module 3 before the exploiters got to work.
I have played SWTOR, saying there is no inflation in that currency is a flat out misrepresentation of fact...and that's putting it about as nicely as I possibly can.
The fact that NWO is not another MMO in no ways means what happens in them is not relevant here. NWO is not some special little snowflake of an MMO in that its economy will not respond as others do. That's ridiculous. Explain how NWOs economic model is somehow different from other MMO economies where wealth enters the game out of nowhere. There will always be more AD tomorrow than there is today, that's inflation amigo. That's not new, revolutionary, controversial, or really even contestable. It's a fact.
I have sold Zenstore items in the AH because I find $20/million AD to be abusively expensive and I'm not going to pay it. That paradigm will be even worse as time goes on and inflation continues while Zen is locked on the exchange. That's not to make a profit, that's to get me AD to spend on the AH that sends AD to another player.
It's not even a little gray, so not "whatever". Unbound Zenstore items can be sold on the AH; working as intended. As in not gray, not shady, not iffy.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it shady.
That just means you're willing to destroy the game for your greed.
I'm not a seer so obviously I can't give an exact date, but the drop of over 4M looks very promising to me. There is nothing "magical" about it. When folks can pull AD out of thin air (Caturday, Astralday) it creates problems. Fortunately these problems tend to fix themselves over time because unlike a real economy people quit playing and their assets ROT. Otherwise you would still have tons and tons of cats on sale on the AH for practically nothing (caturday). Likewise you no longer see enchants selling at crazy prices because the folks that were buying them all up aren't getting them for free anymore.
Perhaps next time don't try show someone up by bluffing on making a bet if you're not prepared to have your bluff called.
I have played SWTOR, saying there is no inflation in that currency is a flat out misrepresentation of fact...and that's putting it about as nicely as I possibly can.
LOL this is a little OT but I stand by my statement. There is fluctuation in SWTOR but not runaway inflation. I can go onto the GTN and check the prices.. and lo and behold! same as last year.
Yes the problem will go away if by problem you mean the zax backlog , the backlog was growing on a daily basis until the day the astral resonator exploit was fixed then the backlog mysteriously stopped rising and started to fall and has continued to fall ever since and in all likelihood will continue to fall below 500/1 , inflation only exists in neverwinter due to a currency exploit that was not cleaned up properly , before the resonator exploit the game never suffered a backlog or 500/1 exchange rate apart from during a module launch and a week or 2 after and once the spare exploited AD has been washed through the system we will be back to how the exchange was up until just after module 3 before the exploiters got to work.
Your crystal ball fails to account for perfectly normal and predictable currency inflation, unless you posit that people spending real $ on Zen to convert to AD will be happy with a continuing cycle of ever-declining purchasing power. Are you?
Thank you. About time someone had some coffee before posting. Even if STO didn't prove it, most PWE games have a ZAx. I've beta-tested and played them all with the exception of Swordsman, which I only beta tested (no time for another full-time game to play atm). I've never seen either a backlog or the exchange rate being at max with the exception of a very select few cash shop events where bound CS currency could not be used.
LOL I've never played STO, or I'm sure I would have come up with this.
Please allow me to retract my claim that NWO is unique. Apparently, it's not.
I HAVE played RaiderZ (which is a PWE game), but there was no ZAX equivalent on that game. It was kinda small anyway.
Your crystal ball fails to account for perfectly normal and predictable currency inflation, unless you posit that people spending real $ on Zen to convert to AD will be happy with a continuing cycle of ever-declining purchasing power. Are you?
As the backlog continues to fall the value of AD will begin to rise , the only reason for its low value today is due to it's overabundance due to an exploit , once that is cleared out the economy will be very close to a pre module 3 level , as of now it is pointless arguing or debating the issue .
All I know is that the zax only started having major issues when a currency exploit was in use , as soon as that was fixed the backlog stopped rising and began falling and has continued to fall ever since, that isn't guesswork , that is pure fact.
Yup. I will be shocked if the botters, flippers, and ah tycoons allow it to disappear. They make too much ad with it existing.
Come on!
It seems as if all your points are coming from an assuming point of view!
A few weeks ago the backlog was at 13 million, and now it around 9 mill, that is living proof that the backlog is going down, and will continue to go down. what this the backlog wont go down theory? havent we seen facts and proof that it going downn?
And you should know something aswell, as the backlog goes down, the guys make less money, i will explain what i mean, and back it up with solid proofs
Let me explain one of the most effective ways these guys make money. i shouldnt explain this here but if it helps elighten the situation then what the hell right?
The make most of their AD by buying companions, and these companions are the companions that are in demand, which one of the Zen store companions is most in deman? yes that right the Stone of allure.
Back when the Backlog was at 13 million, this is how it worked.
They buy the companion for 1200 Zen, which = 600k AD.
The companion comes with a lesser bonding runestone.
During that time, the Companion was selling for 750k AD, and the lesser bonding runestone was selling for 300k AD, So in total they will roughly get 1million AD, take out the 10% cut from the AH, and they will be left with 900k AD, from the 900k AH, take out the initial 600k AD they used to buy the stone, and they will be left with 300k profit.
that a 300k profit whenever they make a sale, they are making money? yeah, and nothing is wrong with that, blame the exploiters.
Now when the backlog is at 9 mill, im going to be brief.
Now the stone sell for 640k, and the lesser bonding runestone sells for 170k, for a total of 810k, take out the 10% AH cut and they will be left with 729k, take out the initial cost of the companion which is 600k, and the profit they make is 130k.
they make a 130k for each sale they make.
Now you see how much their business is dropping due to the backlog? very soon they are going to make even less than they previously did.
Every single day they lose business, and it very silling to think these guys control the AH, if they did how comes the backlog is dropping? let be logical here, these guys are taking advantage of a situation, that i totally understand, but once the situation has be captured these guys are out, they cant keep the backlog where they want it to be, and as they stop making a lot of AD they are just going to stop doing it alltogther, hopefully very soon.
Hopefully i have explained things clearly, i know we have both been rash with eachother, and that because i think you guys are putting all the pressure on the guys who can make something out of this situation, when i reality we should blame Cryptic, PWE and the exploiters.
Hopefully we can forget the past, and reason to logic so that we all may better understand.
I'm with you in spirit, geeq5, I really am. You sound like you also want a return to normalcy instead of this insanity we have now.
But the backlog is not dropping as fast as you may think. It is holding at 10 million zen (5 billion AD), and that is even taking into account all the guys buying up for the Knox companion auction. I really wish it was 9 or lower, but it's just not. The fact that it IS INDEED going down steadily since mid August is very encouraging though... I'm just leery of taking trends as permanent.
I'm with you in spirit, geeq5, I really am. You sound like you also want a return to normalcy instead of this insanity we have now.
But the backlog is not dropping as fast as you may think. It is holding at 10 million zen (5 billion AD), and that is even taking into account all the guys buying up for the Knox companion auction. I really wish it was 9 or lower, but it's just not. The fact that it IS INDEED going down steadily since mid August is very encouraging though... I'm just leery of taking trends as permanent.
Thank you. About time someone had some coffee before posting. Even if STO didn't prove it, most PWE games have a ZAx. I've beta-tested and played them all with the exception of Swordsman, which I only beta tested (no time for another full-time game to play atm). I've never seen either a backlog or the exchange rate being at max with the exception of a very select few cash shop events where bound CS currency could not be used.
The ZAx itself isn't flawed. It's being used in the wrong way. By players and/or bots. If that's not the case, Cryptic has underestimated the amount of AD people are willing to gain through other means than gameplay or Zen exchange (yes, I'm talking about making a shetload of leadership toons instead of dungeon farming and putting a overly high pricetag on something without clear reasoning, among other things), devaluing the currency more the longer people are playing./QUOTE]
Leadership still has a max 24K per day and most leader bots do not generate that much. Actual professions tasks have a much higher yeaild. My artificing toon turns out 4 pact blades a day at an average 80k per egg (less actually buying in bulk when the price is low) and 130k per yeilds 120k refined a day after tax. My platesmithing toon yeilds about the same in Gambesons. then leatherworking which, with failure rates, averages 300k net a day in Darkleather +4 plus another 100k or so in slotted blues. Which in transaction taxes both directions removes 130-140k from the market through taxes and that's a small operation.
It's easy to think in terms of what a single player can do and what is reasonable. From the single player view, Leadership and praying is insignificant amounts of AD. It really is.
HOWEVER
Switch gears to the mind of an exploiter/botter. Those are loopholes begging to get plundered. When the other avenues are closed off, they are viable and lucrative options that remain on the table.
In other news, the ZAX is about to get wiped tomorrow, according to Akro. I wonder how fast the backlog will creep back up after account maintenance.
I wonder if everyone trying to log on at once to get to the ZAX will crash the server to be honest.
That said I don't think this will do anything, people are just going to put their orders back up tommorrow and the ZAX will be where it was roughly at the end of 24 hours.
Well, if the lockbox stuff was BoP it would effectively kill off the lockbox business. People can currently recover a portion of the key cost by selling unwanted lockbox drops on the AH, but without the ability to do that, most players would probably not bother with the boxes.
<snip>
However, consider the business side - if people are spending real $$$ on Zen, and not just exchanging that for AD, but buying popular items during sales, and selling them on the AH for a significant profit a few weeks or months later, making the Zen store items BoA might reduce Zen sales, which would be bad for business.
Not might. It would. Very bad for business. I absolutely agree with your first point, but I think you are understating the second.
The only saving grace of taking a gamble with the lock boxes is that you CAN get good stuff you can use AND stuff you can sell to recover some of your costs. You NEVER recover the cash cost, but you do get AD back in exchange for the Zen you bought with cash and spent on keys to open the boxes. The "bad drops", I auction off. The good drops I keep.
It would be a foolish thing to have any other view and I think the only people who want Leadership curtailed, all Zen items to be BoP or BtA and who think that selling Zen Market items for more than 500 per Zen-equivalent is an "Exploit" must be purely F2P "freeloaders" who have never purchased any Zen and are fed up of waiting a month to get any for their farmed AD.
What are they? Communists? Does anyone really think I am going to buy AD for the low, low price of 500 per Zen if I could buy 10 Coalescent Wards for 7500 Zen (3.75 million AD) and trade them for 6 million AD? That is real-world cash money I am turning into AD, WITHOUT going to 3rd party scam sites to buy pirated assets. Charging Zen is the way Cryptic and PWE get an income to keep the game free to play for those who want to play it that way. Charging Zen is NOT a mechanism to give free Zen to people who have not paid a penny into the game, so that THEY can buy Coalescent Wards in the sale and flip them on the AH.
So let's see a little less whinging and a bit more patience until your orders are filled. And please stop calling for nerfs to legitimate players who are playing legitimately
I don't agree that making anything else on the Zen Market BoP or BoA is in anyway a sensible idea. First, there are different types of things already.
Keys (and Astral Resonators from the boxes) are BoP, of course, and we all know why.
Retraining "Tokens" are not tokens at all, but you buy the ability to re-spec for that character (Unless they have changed it since last time I bought one).
Race Changes, Appearance Changes, Renaming "Tokens" and Character Slots cannot be traded, of course.
Account-Wide Mounts means you get one for each character, so they are BoA anyway. I paid 3500 Zen for a White Tiger - all characters have a BoP White Tiger. I bought The Knights of the Feywild - all characters have a BoP Unicorn. I would love a Rage Drake for my Dragonborn Warlock and a Tenser's Floating Disc for my Thief, but I don't have enough AD.
Other things are listed as "Single Purchase - Tradeable with Players".
So you trade according to the economy. If the economy means that Trading Zen Market items, as intended by Cryptic, gives you more AD than using the Exchange, then that is the way it is.
The Zen/AD Exchange is a CURRENCY exchange. The Auction House is for trading commodities. They are two completely different things.
Genuine "Flippers" are not causing the backlog. Leadership is not causing it. Poor coding and players exploiting that poor coding for the Astral Resonator AD Fountain is what caused it. And that was exploiting players, not Bots and Gold farmers, who revealed themselves (apparently) in Zone Chat and got reported.
Those of you calling for BtA for Zen Market items, bemoaning the wait in the ZAX and claiming that getting more than 500 AD per Zen through taking the risk of trading Zen items is an "Exploit" (and paying a FEE which you lose if the item is not purchased, or if you set the initial bid too low because you did not have enough AD to cover the fee for a higher reserve price and lose 3 million AD due to a last-minute bidder), why don't you do something about it?
What you can do is put $50 into the game, buy some Zen and then either help out other people with orders in the backlog by exchanging your new Zen for AD, OR buy something desirable and take the risk of Auctioning it yourself.
I am sure both PWE and Cryptic would be happy to accept your $50 and see you use it in a legitimate way as they intended.
In other news, the ZAX is about to get wiped tomorrow, according to Akro. I wonder how fast the backlog will creep back up after account maintenance.
Really? What about the AD we have in back-orders?
I suspect they have been working on deleting accounts etc and blocking bots and farmers, so there may be a large amount of AD on the exchange from null accounts now. So if they wipe the ZAX and reset it, accounts that still exist will put in orders again.
But I also suspect very few people will put in orders at 250 AD per Zen. The rate will probably be 500 straight away and there will probably be a backlog of millions in a few hours.
But with any luck, it will be 2 million instead of 10.
I suspect they have been working on deleting accounts etc and blocking bots and farmers, so there may be a large amount of AD on the exchange from null accounts now. So if they wipe the ZAX and reset it, accounts that still exist will put in orders again.
But I also suspect very few people will put in orders at 250 AD per Zen. The rate will probably be 500 straight away and there will probably be a backlog of millions in a few hours.
But with any luck, it will be 2 million instead of 10.
~
It's been over 2 weeks since then, the ad from banned people is already off the zax.
As far as people that think flipping is an exploit being freeloaders. Please look at what it says under my name. I've put money into this game. I just think your greed will destroy it.
What you can do is put $50 into the game, buy some Zen and then either help out other people with orders in the backlog by exchanging your new Zen for AD, OR buy something desirable and take the risk of Auctioning it yourself.
Risk? LOL
Seriously, man.. come on. You're REALLY stretching for this one.
If there was legitimate risk and not a 100% guarantee of profit (rather sizable profit at that, in many cases with a little planning) then bring it on. For example, if you, as an AD baron, were forced to gamble on lockbox contents to find tradable items to put on the AH and actually truly take on actual real risk where you might not 100% come out on top every single time then I would have no complaints.
If you found some mega-item in one of your lockboxes, put it up on the AH for twenty gazillionty AD's -- knock yourself out, I hope it sells. But look at the AH right now --- LOOK AT IT -- coal wards, for example, just one of the exploitable items -- it's the same 5 or 6 people who own the first 5 pages of listings! They are running a tried and tested program to maximize their gains off of the backlog. Those people right there are a few of the AD barons we've been talking about who control the market. There's no "risk"! They are operating printing presses for AD's.
Of course there is a risk. You have to have enough AD to pay the fee for your reserve price and there is no guarantee it will sell. If it does not sell, you lose your posting fee. Others can come in and undercut you, putting your item two or three pages down and the five days times out. I put an enchant up and instead of the reserve price being 80% of the Buy Out, I made it about 30% to save some AD. It was bought by a last minute bidder, and I got bugger all for it, when I was thinking "Ah well, I'll get it back in a few hours and put it up at a lower price". But it went to the lowest bidder. I learned a lot from that experience!
For example, if you, as an AD baron, were forced to gamble on lockbox contents to find tradable items to put on the AH and actually truly take on actual real risk where you might not 100% come out on top every single time then I would have no complaints.
But I am not an AD Baron. I have about 140k AD at the moment and nothing on the AH. I have about 450k on the ZAX. I did not buy any Zen for the recent sale because I was ripped off and lied to like a chump and then treated with no respect over the Dragonborn Pre-Release Fake Sale.
Most of the Zen I have spent has been on keys to open boxes, as I said earlier. 3500 went on an account-wide White Tiger, and I bought quite a few character slots, retraining tokens and other things that I actually used.
If you found some mega-item in one of your lockboxes, put it up on the AH for twenty gazillionty AD's -- knock yourself out, I hope it sells. But look at the AH right now --- LOOK AT IT -- coal wards, for example, just one of the exploitable items -- it's the same 5 or 6 people who own the first 5 pages of listings! They are running a tried and tested program to maximize their gains off of the backlog. Those people right there are a few of the AD barons we've been talking about who control the market. There's no "risk"! They are operating printing presses for AD's.
I got a lot of Epic items that I sold. The first Thayan Book of the Dead brought 3 million. I also got a ton of useless blue Fey'ri items etc that only go for a few thousand. So I kept them until I either have a use for them on a new character or the price goes up.
But if people do not buy over-priced things from the AH, the sellers will get the items back and will have lost their posting fees. And the more wards that are posted, the lower the prices will go. So do not buy them is the answer. I don't!
If you really believe that those items are from bots and spammers who will then sell the AD for cash, that is part of the balance game companies have to maintain - if those bots and spammers are paying for Zen with real world cash, do you ban them and delete their accounts, or turn a blind eye for a while as long as they are still paying in? In any case, those items may be from genuine players who are spending a lot of real money. Or they may be from spam bots who are clogging the ZAX and turning AD into Zen and Zen into Wards and Wards into AD and AD into cash illegally. That is up to Cryptic and PWE to investigate. But legitimate players sell things on the AH as well, so punishing legitimate players by making everything BtA seems a rather blunt edged tool. Which is probably why it has not happened.
People seem to be crying because they have been playing since open beta and have dozens of millions of AD and cannot get any Zen to flip items themselves, and do not like paying the inflated prices at the AH. Some of these people force GREEEEEEEDDDD!!!! runs on less experienced players so they can get BoE items they cannot use so they can sell them on the AH for hundreds of thousands.
though i am against price flippers but the whole thing gonna end soon .. because flippers depend on backlog so players would buy their items for time convenience .. since backlog is going down .. we are near to having a stable economy ... ad value will go up with the knox event coming soon eating good portion of backlog since zen sellers want to have the company's hero franchise for exotic purposes of course .. so when backlog ends .. flippers dielama will end and good luck doing your flipping .. unless there is still frauded AD that people still got them hiding and not posting them on zax which is my current fear atm which we will know after the account server is maintained .. one thing we might as well know if some of the ordered ad on zax are frauded or legit .. though i believe some of them are frauded
i am not saying that economy will be stable for the account server reset
what i am saying that the backlog has been declining and it already broke the 10K million backlog and pretty soon the backlog issue wont exist ,, in addition with the knox event that will consume if not the whole backlog at least good portion of it that is what i meant by having a stable economy .. i did not relate economy's stability to account server
Comments
STO's version of the ZAX pretty much proves you wrong. Same system, no backlog not pegged at the cap. It doesn't have to be broken. It's people defending inflation that are the problem.
I'm not a seer so obviously I can't give an exact date, but the drop of over 4M looks very promising to me. There is nothing "magical" about it. When folks can pull AD out of thin air (Caturday, Astralday) it creates problems. Fortunately these problems tend to fix themselves over time because unlike a real economy people quit playing and their assets ROT. Otherwise you would still have tons and tons of cats on sale on the AH for practically nothing (caturday). Likewise you no longer see enchants selling at crazy prices because the folks that were buying them all up aren't getting them for free anymore.
Alright, try it this way:
I have played SWTOR, saying there is no inflation in that currency is a flat out misrepresentation of fact...and that's putting it about as nicely as I possibly can.
The fact that NWO is not another MMO in no ways means what happens in them is not relevant here. NWO is not some special little snowflake of an MMO in that its economy will not respond as others do. That's ridiculous. Explain how NWOs economic model is somehow different from other MMO economies where wealth enters the game out of nowhere. There will always be more AD tomorrow than there is today, that's inflation amigo. That's not new, revolutionary, controversial, or really even contestable. It's a fact.
I have sold Zenstore items in the AH because I find $20/million AD to be abusively expensive and I'm not going to pay it. That paradigm will be even worse as time goes on and inflation continues while Zen is locked on the exchange. That's not to make a profit, that's to get me AD to spend on the AH that sends AD to another player.
It's not even a little gray, so not "whatever". Unbound Zenstore items can be sold on the AH; working as intended. As in not gray, not shady, not iffy.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it shady.
Yes the problem will go away if by problem you mean the zax backlog , the backlog was growing on a daily basis until the day the astral resonator exploit was fixed then the backlog mysteriously stopped rising and started to fall and has continued to fall ever since and in all likelihood will continue to fall below 500/1 , inflation only exists in neverwinter due to a currency exploit that was not cleaned up properly , before the resonator exploit the game never suffered a backlog or 500/1 exchange rate apart from during a module launch and a week or 2 after and once the spare exploited AD has been washed through the system we will be back to how the exchange was up until just after module 3 before the exploiters got to work.
That just means you're willing to destroy the game for your greed.
Perhaps next time don't try show someone up by bluffing on making a bet if you're not prepared to have your bluff called.
LOL this is a little OT but I stand by my statement. There is fluctuation in SWTOR but not runaway inflation. I can go onto the GTN and check the prices.. and lo and behold! same as last year.
SMH
Your crystal ball fails to account for perfectly normal and predictable currency inflation, unless you posit that people spending real $ on Zen to convert to AD will be happy with a continuing cycle of ever-declining purchasing power. Are you?
LOL I've never played STO, or I'm sure I would have come up with this.
Please allow me to retract my claim that NWO is unique. Apparently, it's not.
I HAVE played RaiderZ (which is a PWE game), but there was no ZAX equivalent on that game. It was kinda small anyway.
As the backlog continues to fall the value of AD will begin to rise , the only reason for its low value today is due to it's overabundance due to an exploit , once that is cleared out the economy will be very close to a pre module 3 level , as of now it is pointless arguing or debating the issue .
All I know is that the zax only started having major issues when a currency exploit was in use , as soon as that was fixed the backlog stopped rising and began falling and has continued to fall ever since, that isn't guesswork , that is pure fact.
Come on!
It seems as if all your points are coming from an assuming point of view!
A few weeks ago the backlog was at 13 million, and now it around 9 mill, that is living proof that the backlog is going down, and will continue to go down. what this the backlog wont go down theory? havent we seen facts and proof that it going downn?
And you should know something aswell, as the backlog goes down, the guys make less money, i will explain what i mean, and back it up with solid proofs
Let me explain one of the most effective ways these guys make money. i shouldnt explain this here but if it helps elighten the situation then what the hell right?
The make most of their AD by buying companions, and these companions are the companions that are in demand, which one of the Zen store companions is most in deman? yes that right the Stone of allure.
Back when the Backlog was at 13 million, this is how it worked.
They buy the companion for 1200 Zen, which = 600k AD.
The companion comes with a lesser bonding runestone.
During that time, the Companion was selling for 750k AD, and the lesser bonding runestone was selling for 300k AD, So in total they will roughly get 1million AD, take out the 10% cut from the AH, and they will be left with 900k AD, from the 900k AH, take out the initial 600k AD they used to buy the stone, and they will be left with 300k profit.
that a 300k profit whenever they make a sale, they are making money? yeah, and nothing is wrong with that, blame the exploiters.
Now when the backlog is at 9 mill, im going to be brief.
Now the stone sell for 640k, and the lesser bonding runestone sells for 170k, for a total of 810k, take out the 10% AH cut and they will be left with 729k, take out the initial cost of the companion which is 600k, and the profit they make is 130k.
they make a 130k for each sale they make.
Now you see how much their business is dropping due to the backlog? very soon they are going to make even less than they previously did.
Every single day they lose business, and it very silling to think these guys control the AH, if they did how comes the backlog is dropping? let be logical here, these guys are taking advantage of a situation, that i totally understand, but once the situation has be captured these guys are out, they cant keep the backlog where they want it to be, and as they stop making a lot of AD they are just going to stop doing it alltogther, hopefully very soon.
Hopefully i have explained things clearly, i know we have both been rash with eachother, and that because i think you guys are putting all the pressure on the guys who can make something out of this situation, when i reality we should blame Cryptic, PWE and the exploiters.
Hopefully we can forget the past, and reason to logic so that we all may better understand.
But the backlog is not dropping as fast as you may think. It is holding at 10 million zen (5 billion AD), and that is even taking into account all the guys buying up for the Knox companion auction. I really wish it was 9 or lower, but it's just not. The fact that it IS INDEED going down steadily since mid August is very encouraging though... I'm just leery of taking trends as permanent.
There have been other dips in the backlog before, and it rose right back up afterwards.
http://nwzen.biz/nwzentracker/graphAmount.php?time=Months&number=20&timezone=-8&hourly=no&showSell=no&linec=000319&ticks=10
That's what we have data for.
I understand it not dropping down dramatically, but hey let look at the bright side, it going down, it may take a while but it will surely go down.
It's easy to think in terms of what a single player can do and what is reasonable. From the single player view, Leadership and praying is insignificant amounts of AD. It really is.
HOWEVER
Switch gears to the mind of an exploiter/botter. Those are loopholes begging to get plundered. When the other avenues are closed off, they are viable and lucrative options that remain on the table.
I wonder if everyone trying to log on at once to get to the ZAX will crash the server to be honest.
That said I don't think this will do anything, people are just going to put their orders back up tommorrow and the ZAX will be where it was roughly at the end of 24 hours.
Not might. It would. Very bad for business. I absolutely agree with your first point, but I think you are understating the second.
The only saving grace of taking a gamble with the lock boxes is that you CAN get good stuff you can use AND stuff you can sell to recover some of your costs. You NEVER recover the cash cost, but you do get AD back in exchange for the Zen you bought with cash and spent on keys to open the boxes. The "bad drops", I auction off. The good drops I keep.
It would be a foolish thing to have any other view and I think the only people who want Leadership curtailed, all Zen items to be BoP or BtA and who think that selling Zen Market items for more than 500 per Zen-equivalent is an "Exploit" must be purely F2P "freeloaders" who have never purchased any Zen and are fed up of waiting a month to get any for their farmed AD.
What are they? Communists? Does anyone really think I am going to buy AD for the low, low price of 500 per Zen if I could buy 10 Coalescent Wards for 7500 Zen (3.75 million AD) and trade them for 6 million AD? That is real-world cash money I am turning into AD, WITHOUT going to 3rd party scam sites to buy pirated assets. Charging Zen is the way Cryptic and PWE get an income to keep the game free to play for those who want to play it that way. Charging Zen is NOT a mechanism to give free Zen to people who have not paid a penny into the game, so that THEY can buy Coalescent Wards in the sale and flip them on the AH.
So let's see a little less whinging and a bit more patience until your orders are filled. And please stop calling for nerfs to legitimate players who are playing legitimately
I don't agree that making anything else on the Zen Market BoP or BoA is in anyway a sensible idea. First, there are different types of things already.
Keys (and Astral Resonators from the boxes) are BoP, of course, and we all know why.
Retraining "Tokens" are not tokens at all, but you buy the ability to re-spec for that character (Unless they have changed it since last time I bought one).
Race Changes, Appearance Changes, Renaming "Tokens" and Character Slots cannot be traded, of course.
Account-Wide Mounts means you get one for each character, so they are BoA anyway. I paid 3500 Zen for a White Tiger - all characters have a BoP White Tiger. I bought The Knights of the Feywild - all characters have a BoP Unicorn. I would love a Rage Drake for my Dragonborn Warlock and a Tenser's Floating Disc for my Thief, but I don't have enough AD.
Other things are listed as "Single Purchase - Tradeable with Players".
So you trade according to the economy. If the economy means that Trading Zen Market items, as intended by Cryptic, gives you more AD than using the Exchange, then that is the way it is.
The Zen/AD Exchange is a CURRENCY exchange. The Auction House is for trading commodities. They are two completely different things.
Genuine "Flippers" are not causing the backlog. Leadership is not causing it. Poor coding and players exploiting that poor coding for the Astral Resonator AD Fountain is what caused it. And that was exploiting players, not Bots and Gold farmers, who revealed themselves (apparently) in Zone Chat and got reported.
Those of you calling for BtA for Zen Market items, bemoaning the wait in the ZAX and claiming that getting more than 500 AD per Zen through taking the risk of trading Zen items is an "Exploit" (and paying a FEE which you lose if the item is not purchased, or if you set the initial bid too low because you did not have enough AD to cover the fee for a higher reserve price and lose 3 million AD due to a last-minute bidder), why don't you do something about it?
What you can do is put $50 into the game, buy some Zen and then either help out other people with orders in the backlog by exchanging your new Zen for AD, OR buy something desirable and take the risk of Auctioning it yourself.
I am sure both PWE and Cryptic would be happy to accept your $50 and see you use it in a legitimate way as they intended.
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Really? What about the AD we have in back-orders?
I suspect they have been working on deleting accounts etc and blocking bots and farmers, so there may be a large amount of AD on the exchange from null accounts now. So if they wipe the ZAX and reset it, accounts that still exist will put in orders again.
But I also suspect very few people will put in orders at 250 AD per Zen. The rate will probably be 500 straight away and there will probably be a backlog of millions in a few hours.
But with any luck, it will be 2 million instead of 10.
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It's been over 2 weeks since then, the ad from banned people is already off the zax.
As far as people that think flipping is an exploit being freeloaders. Please look at what it says under my name. I've put money into this game. I just think your greed will destroy it.
Risk? LOL
Seriously, man.. come on. You're REALLY stretching for this one.
If there was legitimate risk and not a 100% guarantee of profit (rather sizable profit at that, in many cases with a little planning) then bring it on. For example, if you, as an AD baron, were forced to gamble on lockbox contents to find tradable items to put on the AH and actually truly take on actual real risk where you might not 100% come out on top every single time then I would have no complaints.
If you found some mega-item in one of your lockboxes, put it up on the AH for twenty gazillionty AD's -- knock yourself out, I hope it sells. But look at the AH right now --- LOOK AT IT -- coal wards, for example, just one of the exploitable items -- it's the same 5 or 6 people who own the first 5 pages of listings! They are running a tried and tested program to maximize their gains off of the backlog. Those people right there are a few of the AD barons we've been talking about who control the market. There's no "risk"! They are operating printing presses for AD's.
Of course there is a risk. You have to have enough AD to pay the fee for your reserve price and there is no guarantee it will sell. If it does not sell, you lose your posting fee. Others can come in and undercut you, putting your item two or three pages down and the five days times out. I put an enchant up and instead of the reserve price being 80% of the Buy Out, I made it about 30% to save some AD. It was bought by a last minute bidder, and I got bugger all for it, when I was thinking "Ah well, I'll get it back in a few hours and put it up at a lower price". But it went to the lowest bidder. I learned a lot from that experience!
But I am not an AD Baron. I have about 140k AD at the moment and nothing on the AH. I have about 450k on the ZAX. I did not buy any Zen for the recent sale because I was ripped off and lied to like a chump and then treated with no respect over the Dragonborn Pre-Release Fake Sale.
Most of the Zen I have spent has been on keys to open boxes, as I said earlier. 3500 went on an account-wide White Tiger, and I bought quite a few character slots, retraining tokens and other things that I actually used.
I got a lot of Epic items that I sold. The first Thayan Book of the Dead brought 3 million. I also got a ton of useless blue Fey'ri items etc that only go for a few thousand. So I kept them until I either have a use for them on a new character or the price goes up.
But if people do not buy over-priced things from the AH, the sellers will get the items back and will have lost their posting fees. And the more wards that are posted, the lower the prices will go. So do not buy them is the answer. I don't!
If you really believe that those items are from bots and spammers who will then sell the AD for cash, that is part of the balance game companies have to maintain - if those bots and spammers are paying for Zen with real world cash, do you ban them and delete their accounts, or turn a blind eye for a while as long as they are still paying in? In any case, those items may be from genuine players who are spending a lot of real money. Or they may be from spam bots who are clogging the ZAX and turning AD into Zen and Zen into Wards and Wards into AD and AD into cash illegally. That is up to Cryptic and PWE to investigate. But legitimate players sell things on the AH as well, so punishing legitimate players by making everything BtA seems a rather blunt edged tool. Which is probably why it has not happened.
People seem to be crying because they have been playing since open beta and have dozens of millions of AD and cannot get any Zen to flip items themselves, and do not like paying the inflated prices at the AH. Some of these people force GREEEEEEEDDDD!!!! runs on less experienced players so they can get BoE items they cannot use so they can sell them on the AH for hundreds of thousands.
It's not my "greed" that is destroying the game.
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what i am saying that the backlog has been declining and it already broke the 10K million backlog and pretty soon the backlog issue wont exist ,, in addition with the knox event that will consume if not the whole backlog at least good portion of it that is what i meant by having a stable economy .. i did not relate economy's stability to account server