I've been using chill strike on tab instead of conduit just because stuff melts so fast conduit doesn't get too much time to proc. Generally its been icy terrain then if I don't have a daily ready sudden storm or steal time depending on what other people are doing and conduit goes last and then maybe it gets a tick or two even when you make a giant mob train. Chillstrike is ok for like a finishing burst. I can see conduit being neat in less high dps groups which we are running to get the warlocks geared.
Did they remove the bonus damage for chill strike on TAB? It's nerfed down to hell since using it in Mod 3. Initial damage nerf, then I don't see a boost anymore using the spell mastery version.
Well like it hits a bunch of targets, not especially hard. What I find useful is the damage upfront. Its not a new shard or anything but like I said its because I'm applying tab last because of no more 15% reduced mitigation and the mobs don't have much life left at that point so its fine I guess. I'm not super commited to it.
Well like it hits a bunch of targets, not especially hard. What I find useful is the damage upfront. Its not a new shard or anything but like I said its because I'm applying tab last because of no more 15% reduced mitigation and the mobs don't have much life left at that point so its fine I guess. I'm not super commited to it.
I can understand that if you aren't an aggressive player and routinely allow someone else to take alpha strike that perhaps CoI wouldn't be your thing. The reason why everyone and their dog leads with CoI is because that way you get more ticks out of it before the target dies and some stacks of chill if it's on tab. If you're using it like a regular spike damage encounter you're doing it wrong.
Storm Spell can crit for quite for a lot of damage. CoI is just a vehicle for getting more of those proc's to fire off which if you lead with it you'll probably get as much, if not more, bang for your buck. Especially since evocation is basically a waste of time now. The spike damage of CW was nerfed hard, but they buffed it's DoT as a compensation.
Also, if there is more than one wizard, their chill stacks are going to make your Snap Freeze feat instantly useless which is one reason I never really liked it as an option. I don't know if you're using that feat or not, just putting it out there.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Nah, let me describe a basic scenario. In cn the cinematic for hall of mirrors plays, the gwf runs down the end of the hall to pick everything up, me and the other cw meet him at some point on his way back down the hall with everything behind him. More or less at the same time the hp dc puts up the blue circle with the dreadring boon so everything is debuffed, we put down icy terrain, eots ticks in and we pop oppressive force, any pocket of mobs still alive gets suddenstormed and steal timed and then usually we are out of stuff to kill. If there's stuff left over its not going to be there long enough for conduit. Then we run to the dangerous door and do the same thing. And so on.
I understand completely what you want to achieve with conduit and it works quite well in low pop dragon farm instances but in dungeons its just kind of been redundant. For me anyway, more power to you if its been working out for you.
Not even running snap freeze, I've been the chilling cloud feat for a while. It was always the one thing I disliked about the old stox build.
The old cw could do most control and damage from range.
The new cw has its best control in melee range. I agree the synergy of the freeze is great but alot more dangerous than it used to be, also your relying on passive procs to do the damage.
Sudden storm is not doing 40k+ damage either, low teens at best. Maybe i misunderstood what you were saying. CoI and terrain both do very low damage again your relying on procs.
My suspicion/fear is soon they will make a drastic change to these procs and that will be the end of any real damage. Our actual encounters are doing HAMSTER poor damage on their own.
Mod3 and particularly mod4 mobs hit stupid hard, being in melee range to effectively control will equal cw deaths, so their is some risk and skill needed, maybe more than launching a potato from range.
That is going to be an issue going forward. Pve balance seems to have a lot to do with the amount of moaning about pvp and because wizards were the easiest kill that forum is on maximum whine
The old cw could do most control and damage from range.
The new cw has its best control in melee range. I agree the synergy of the freeze is great but alot more dangerous than it used to be, also your relying on passive procs to do the damage...
I'm doing 25% more damage a lot of the time which probably skews my average especially in larger fights (which we pull a lot of things, so this probably skews it even further.) As for melee range, there isn't really anything at all different about it. Shard always had a target cap, so that's probably the difference here. I'm guessing you pull one group at a time instead of pulling 4, 5, or even 10 groups at a time. As Andre the Giant said, it's different fighting just one man instead of a group.
You are entirely correct though, it relies on proc's for damage, but even with that Sudden Storm hits like a truck compared to most other encounter powers in most other classes. On top of that it's uncapped, which is a really big deal for me but perhaps less so for people who can't consistently line up their shots or who are teaming with Roar happy GWF. MoF spec. CW wish they had an encounter like Sudden Storm. (Or they don't know what they're missing and are unaware of how excellent of an encounter it really is.)
Bad example though. That hallway can be nuked by one CW firing an at-will followed up by Oppressive Force for instacrit action. The Burning Skeletons might remain since they don't like to move, but even a second OF probably won't kill all of those if they remain spread out. The whole hallway is basically a one shot for CW who know what they're doing. (Which you clearly do know what you're doing.)
I understand completely what you want to achieve with conduit and it works quite well in low pop dragon farm instances but in dungeons its just kind of been redundant. For me anyway, more power to you if its been working out for you.
Not even running snap freeze, I've been the chilling cloud feat for a while. It was always the one thing I disliked about the old stox build.
Good choice on Snap Freeze I suppose, but I'm just relating what I have seen the most damaging Control Wizards doing and what I myself do to top paingiver while keeping add's locked down 90% of the time. No one says anyone must follow suit, but it's a really strong combination and so far I haven't seen anything else come close either in my own testing or in anyone elses.
I can agree that if you are not the aggressive initiator that CoI might not be a good choice for you. Especially if you have two overgeared CW in the group. Not much is going to live past 5 seconds in that scenario.
Oppressive Force is hilariously overpowered in my opinion, but since Cryptic did nothing of substance to rein it in I suppose herding up half a dungeon is working as intended. -10% damage indeed, lol.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
I kind of really resent their nerfing of arcane singularity. It was the most help the group of powers. I liked the game most when it was different classes helping each other out. I guess gfs are helping with debuffs now. Its a pity there aren't any left.
Did they remove the bonus damage for chill strike on TAB? It's nerfed down to hell since using it in Mod 3. Initial damage nerf, then I don't see a boost anymore using the spell mastery version.
If you're using focused wizardry, damage will be decreased because it's considered an AOE ability when it's in tab.
If you're using focused wizardry, damage will be decreased because it's considered an AOE ability when it's in tab.
At the moment it seems to be that Focused Wizardry is only really useful for a MoF. I can't see any reason to take that feat as a Spellstorm unless you are strictly PvP.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I kind of really resent their nerfing of arcane singularity. It was the most help the group of powers. I liked the game most when it was different classes helping each other out. I guess gfs are helping with debuffs now. Its a pity there aren't any left.
Amusingly the only real effect this Singularity nerf has resulted in is CW doing even more damage than before as more and more of them are starting to realize that OF was always the superior option except in a few really specific fights. I still have Singularity on my bar but it's rare when there's a reason to use it since Oppressive Force gathers through aggro almost as well as Singularity ever did.
Oddly enough, the change to Singularity made me try out Maelstrom once again with some success. Although it's still worse than Oppressive Force it's now slightly more attractive with multiple wizards than it was before. I'd say Singularity is still slightly better, but it's at least not absolute garbage now if all you care about is putting things in a particular place at a particular time.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
It might be better for your personal dps but for a no muss no fuss run its a loss and it makes neverwinter more and more a solo experience
It is a very no fuss no muss strategy to simply kill everything in one giant ball of Oppressive Force. No, it isn't fun for the rest of the group unless they just want loot. I'm not really sure how I feel about that, but ultimately that isn't the point of this thread. I'm just telling people an effective combination to use and replying to this thread to keep it near the top of the boards.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
yeah oppresive force has always been better, at least for personal dps.
Sing is always better for non heavy cw groups dps as that bunching helps the rest of the classes dps, I personally love singbots with my TR (back when wicked reminder had no target cap) and specially my HR for those rain of arrows.
I do still like to get a first sing in those big herds though, u hit soo many more targets with ur sudden storm XD..... I like coz it means everything is frozen in a tight pack after the SS+IT combo..... Opressive is still probably better for dps though.
yeah oppresive force has always been better, at least for personal dps.
Sing is always better for non heavy cw groups dps as that bunching helps the rest of the classes dps, I personally love singbots with my TR (back when wicked reminder had no target cap) and specially my HR for those rain of arrows.
I do still like to get a first sing in those big herds though, u hit soo many more targets with ur sudden storm XD..... I like coz it means everything is frozen in a tight pack after the SS+IT combo..... Opressive is still probably better for dps though.
Thing is, Singularity only hits 8. So even if you throw it into a 'big group' the amount of things it gathers is pretty lackluster. You would profit more, in that instance, from putting EF on tab then throwing Icy Terrain to immob, then Sudden Storm and Steal Time. But, when running this loudout you do less damage than if you had CoI slotted. In my opinion it's still a good combination if you really want to 'help' your team with a gather as it also gives you 5 stacks of Arcane Mastery instantly from the 'gather' effect, 3 stacks of HV buff, 1 stack of HV Debuff, and is easily spammed after an Oppressive Force to clean up. It also lines up your shot for Sudden Storm incredibly easily.
Virtually no one uses EF, and I know it's because of the damage, but it is a very effective tool for all sorts of CW spec's. It's kind of sad no one uses it. Personally, I think it's worthwhile just for the extra ~1000 armor it gives me but Paingiver is more valuable to most players than smooth runs or team synergy.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Virtually no one uses EF, and I know it's because of the damage, but it is a very effective tool for all sorts of CW spec's. It's kind of sad no one uses it. Personally, I think it's worthwhile just for the extra ~1000 armor it gives me but Paingiver is more valuable to most players than smooth runs or team synergy.
well back when it gave massive ap everyone used it, i do miss that kind of singbot cw of mod1 when ef/As was really good....
well back when it gave massive ap everyone used it, i do miss that kind of singbot cw of mod1 when ef/As was really good....
Thing is it's still really good, and still gives a ton of AP. It just does less damage. Like I said, paingiver is more important to most players than smooth runs. People clearing dungeons at a dead run and falling over themselves to take alpha strike is so common at this point that if you're behind the lead two people you are basically not going to hit anything in a T2 dungeon. Power creep has essentially turned the game into a giant joke for a lot of people.
That doesn't mean EF is bad, it just means that you don't need anything except OF at high enough GS. Everything else is just something you do to get OF back again. (Not to say there isn't an optimal or preferred way of getting OF back, but this is how most highly geared CW run content at this point. Nuke as many pulls as you can survive.)
I should point out that, ironically, this makes EF a decent option since CoI is likely going to tick perhaps once or twice before everything is dead in a lot of groups. In those situations I find the 'gather' useful for a follow up Sudden Storm that finishes everything off or freezes them. Not always useful, but it can be.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
so your a storm now ei? hehehe.
I still enjoy throwing 3 Consecutive OFs while dc artifact is still on ;D
Yeah. Oppressive Force spam is nice and FI is worth using now but otherwise I felt underwelmed with it since the changes to freeze and Sudden Storm work so well together. MoF does make great use out CW dailies. I miss it some days, but feel that I gained more than I lost. In all honesty I was kind of irritated that FI was dazing bosses too. It just felt wrong. Perhaps I'll go back to it whenever Cryptic fixes that. (If they haven't already.)
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Comments
Did they remove the bonus damage for chill strike on TAB? It's nerfed down to hell since using it in Mod 3. Initial damage nerf, then I don't see a boost anymore using the spell mastery version.
I can understand that if you aren't an aggressive player and routinely allow someone else to take alpha strike that perhaps CoI wouldn't be your thing. The reason why everyone and their dog leads with CoI is because that way you get more ticks out of it before the target dies and some stacks of chill if it's on tab. If you're using it like a regular spike damage encounter you're doing it wrong.
Storm Spell can crit for quite for a lot of damage. CoI is just a vehicle for getting more of those proc's to fire off which if you lead with it you'll probably get as much, if not more, bang for your buck. Especially since evocation is basically a waste of time now. The spike damage of CW was nerfed hard, but they buffed it's DoT as a compensation.
Also, if there is more than one wizard, their chill stacks are going to make your Snap Freeze feat instantly useless which is one reason I never really liked it as an option. I don't know if you're using that feat or not, just putting it out there.
I understand completely what you want to achieve with conduit and it works quite well in low pop dragon farm instances but in dungeons its just kind of been redundant. For me anyway, more power to you if its been working out for you.
Not even running snap freeze, I've been the chilling cloud feat for a while. It was always the one thing I disliked about the old stox build.
The new cw has its best control in melee range. I agree the synergy of the freeze is great but alot more dangerous than it used to be, also your relying on passive procs to do the damage.
Sudden storm is not doing 40k+ damage either, low teens at best. Maybe i misunderstood what you were saying. CoI and terrain both do very low damage again your relying on procs.
My suspicion/fear is soon they will make a drastic change to these procs and that will be the end of any real damage. Our actual encounters are doing HAMSTER poor damage on their own.
Mod3 and particularly mod4 mobs hit stupid hard, being in melee range to effectively control will equal cw deaths, so their is some risk and skill needed, maybe more than launching a potato from range.
I'm doing 25% more damage a lot of the time which probably skews my average especially in larger fights (which we pull a lot of things, so this probably skews it even further.) As for melee range, there isn't really anything at all different about it. Shard always had a target cap, so that's probably the difference here. I'm guessing you pull one group at a time instead of pulling 4, 5, or even 10 groups at a time. As Andre the Giant said, it's different fighting just one man instead of a group.
You are entirely correct though, it relies on proc's for damage, but even with that Sudden Storm hits like a truck compared to most other encounter powers in most other classes. On top of that it's uncapped, which is a really big deal for me but perhaps less so for people who can't consistently line up their shots or who are teaming with Roar happy GWF. MoF spec. CW wish they had an encounter like Sudden Storm. (Or they don't know what they're missing and are unaware of how excellent of an encounter it really is.)
Bad example though. That hallway can be nuked by one CW firing an at-will followed up by Oppressive Force for instacrit action. The Burning Skeletons might remain since they don't like to move, but even a second OF probably won't kill all of those if they remain spread out. The whole hallway is basically a one shot for CW who know what they're doing. (Which you clearly do know what you're doing.)
Good choice on Snap Freeze I suppose, but I'm just relating what I have seen the most damaging Control Wizards doing and what I myself do to top paingiver while keeping add's locked down 90% of the time. No one says anyone must follow suit, but it's a really strong combination and so far I haven't seen anything else come close either in my own testing or in anyone elses.
I can agree that if you are not the aggressive initiator that CoI might not be a good choice for you. Especially if you have two overgeared CW in the group. Not much is going to live past 5 seconds in that scenario.
Oppressive Force is hilariously overpowered in my opinion, but since Cryptic did nothing of substance to rein it in I suppose herding up half a dungeon is working as intended. -10% damage indeed, lol.
If you're using focused wizardry, damage will be decreased because it's considered an AOE ability when it's in tab.
At the moment it seems to be that Focused Wizardry is only really useful for a MoF. I can't see any reason to take that feat as a Spellstorm unless you are strictly PvP.
My GWF misses Singularity more than my CW does.
Amusingly the only real effect this Singularity nerf has resulted in is CW doing even more damage than before as more and more of them are starting to realize that OF was always the superior option except in a few really specific fights. I still have Singularity on my bar but it's rare when there's a reason to use it since Oppressive Force gathers through aggro almost as well as Singularity ever did.
Oddly enough, the change to Singularity made me try out Maelstrom once again with some success. Although it's still worse than Oppressive Force it's now slightly more attractive with multiple wizards than it was before. I'd say Singularity is still slightly better, but it's at least not absolute garbage now if all you care about is putting things in a particular place at a particular time.
It is a very no fuss no muss strategy to simply kill everything in one giant ball of Oppressive Force. No, it isn't fun for the rest of the group unless they just want loot. I'm not really sure how I feel about that, but ultimately that isn't the point of this thread. I'm just telling people an effective combination to use and replying to this thread to keep it near the top of the boards.
Sing is always better for non heavy cw groups dps as that bunching helps the rest of the classes dps, I personally love singbots with my TR (back when wicked reminder had no target cap) and specially my HR for those rain of arrows.
I do still like to get a first sing in those big herds though, u hit soo many more targets with ur sudden storm XD..... I like coz it means everything is frozen in a tight pack after the SS+IT combo..... Opressive is still probably better for dps though.
Thing is, Singularity only hits 8. So even if you throw it into a 'big group' the amount of things it gathers is pretty lackluster. You would profit more, in that instance, from putting EF on tab then throwing Icy Terrain to immob, then Sudden Storm and Steal Time. But, when running this loudout you do less damage than if you had CoI slotted. In my opinion it's still a good combination if you really want to 'help' your team with a gather as it also gives you 5 stacks of Arcane Mastery instantly from the 'gather' effect, 3 stacks of HV buff, 1 stack of HV Debuff, and is easily spammed after an Oppressive Force to clean up. It also lines up your shot for Sudden Storm incredibly easily.
Virtually no one uses EF, and I know it's because of the damage, but it is a very effective tool for all sorts of CW spec's. It's kind of sad no one uses it. Personally, I think it's worthwhile just for the extra ~1000 armor it gives me but Paingiver is more valuable to most players than smooth runs or team synergy.
well back when it gave massive ap everyone used it, i do miss that kind of singbot cw of mod1 when ef/As was really good....
Thing is it's still really good, and still gives a ton of AP. It just does less damage. Like I said, paingiver is more important to most players than smooth runs. People clearing dungeons at a dead run and falling over themselves to take alpha strike is so common at this point that if you're behind the lead two people you are basically not going to hit anything in a T2 dungeon. Power creep has essentially turned the game into a giant joke for a lot of people.
That doesn't mean EF is bad, it just means that you don't need anything except OF at high enough GS. Everything else is just something you do to get OF back again. (Not to say there isn't an optimal or preferred way of getting OF back, but this is how most highly geared CW run content at this point. Nuke as many pulls as you can survive.)
I should point out that, ironically, this makes EF a decent option since CoI is likely going to tick perhaps once or twice before everything is dead in a lot of groups. In those situations I find the 'gather' useful for a follow up Sudden Storm that finishes everything off or freezes them. Not always useful, but it can be.
I still enjoy throwing 3 Consecutive OFs while dc artifact is still on ;D
BlackberryCheesecake CW
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Yeah. Oppressive Force spam is nice and FI is worth using now but otherwise I felt underwelmed with it since the changes to freeze and Sudden Storm work so well together. MoF does make great use out CW dailies. I miss it some days, but feel that I gained more than I lost. In all honesty I was kind of irritated that FI was dazing bosses too. It just felt wrong. Perhaps I'll go back to it whenever Cryptic fixes that. (If they haven't already.)